Author Topic: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!  (Read 144106 times)

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #575 on: September 12, 2009, 01:50:45 PM »
By the time Mew's even mortal, sonic steel haste(ga) is likely going to allow him to put up 2 buffs before the party takes a hit. I don't really give a shit if he dies after that.

For my 2 slot, how about...

Angela, who has the same issues with no early status but has actual magic damage throughout?
Rosa, who has the same issues with no early status but is a second healer?
Arnaud, who has powerful stat downs instead of statuses?

Eh. None of these guys have Nash's speed... but what was I thinking picking him for speed in this team?

Edit: Wait, Rosa starts with Hold and gets silence good and early too, with berserk and confuse to round things out midgame. I'll take her.

Tidus (3.5)
Mew (6.5)
Lucian + Shiho (9)
Rosa (11)

Still not finalized but this is what I'm considering now.

With rosa for healings and me really wanting physical offense, I might consider dropping the VP pair for even more physical specialization in the form of... Ephraim. Who would also make a really good firefly holder, thinking on it (his starting stats were really insane, right?) Being forced to physical him is.... yeah... I really want to try out Mew but he need not necessarily be the firefly guy. Forget all that, might reinforce is better than eph.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 02:09:55 PM by Monkeyfinger »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #576 on: September 12, 2009, 02:15:54 PM »
Hm. Sounds pretty good. Rosa is about as good as you'll get for someone who has strong statuses -and- covers as a second healer/reviver for 2.0. The speed is underwhelming, but the durability is acceptable and you have ways to cover for speed anyway. Rosa can also MT her status and still hit acceptably with it, I guess? Which wouldn't hurt the pitch. Since Mew can -also- cover for physical offense to a degree, I think MR and Lucian will cover your needs fine.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #577 on: September 12, 2009, 02:29:20 PM »
No, wait. That setup dies to rampage drive in round 1.

I think I need Angela.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #578 on: September 12, 2009, 02:32:29 PM »
Mew starts with a Psy-attack, I thought? That would cover RD.
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #579 on: September 12, 2009, 02:34:48 PM »
Pound is his only starting move. Takes him till level 40 to naturally learn a psychic move.

Ugh angela starts with no spells. Hrm.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 02:38:34 PM by Monkeyfinger »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #580 on: September 12, 2009, 02:36:08 PM »
Hm. No magical damage TMs in the earlygame for gen 3? That would pretty much handle RD stat. If he learns a magical move before, say, L9 as well, this more or less clears you.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #581 on: September 12, 2009, 02:40:05 PM »
His first natural move is transform at L10, followed by MEGA PUNCH at 20.

Earliest magic TM is BULLET SEED at Mt. Moon.

How about... mitsuru. Starts with some ice magic, healing, and MARIN FUCKING KARIN, becomes a full fledged healer with some extra status later on.

Or rydia. Great damage, a nasty selection of status that starts with hold at L5, and the speed/HP don't hurt too much on this team with mew tanking early and hastega late.

I'll leave this in limbo for another day or so.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 02:51:24 PM by Monkeyfinger »

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #582 on: September 12, 2009, 02:45:11 PM »
Given my in-game recollection, I'd bite on Bullet Seed being floor 1. Bullet Seed probably is enough to boot, given how frail Rampage Drive is, and you have someone who starts with Defense buffs and infinite healing. I suspect Rampage Drive may not even be immune to statuses (P3 Tartarus bosses loved to have those odd holes, particularly in the early game), which would keep things handily under control. Transform could also work if you could convince people it was floor 1, which is hilarious, though (RD has magic!).

EDIT: I keep having the nagging feeling this may not even matter a whole lot, since I'm thinking there's some Mew clause I'm forgetting for dungeon purposes, but damned if I can put my finger on it.

EDIT 2: Hmmm, Mitsuru's healing is never really bad, although she's stuck with ST. She covers status poorly (P3 status is inaccurate as all get. Marin Karin is particularly horrible, something in the house of 30%?), her selling point being the magical offense (she's also pretty MT-centered offensively, which is pretty sweet. Tentarafoo, while inaccurate, is early MT silence, which could be useful -anyhow-, even if in the 30%-40% house for acc.). The weakness can be amazingly nasty, though, it shocked me to see how often Persona elemental weaknesses have come into play in the dungeon so far.

EDIT 3: Rydia... mmmm. She solves the Rampage Drive issue, but is inferior to Rosa as a pick across the board, and those first two floors will be murder on her (she starts out terrible, status aside. Also, I have to wonder about Hold's accuracy, since it's about the only non-Sleep/Piggy status in FF4 that hasn't got accuracy hype). At least Mew can soften the blow there, given Firefly. I'll confirm with Neph the Rampage Drive thing first before definite assessments.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 04:10:26 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #583 on: September 12, 2009, 04:25:33 PM »
I don't think this is something you can "clear up with Neph." It's all down to how the individual voter sees it.

For example, I'd see everything after Brock as floor 2.

right now my strongest kneejerk is to just stick with nash.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 04:27:48 PM by Monkeyfinger »

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #584 on: September 12, 2009, 04:28:03 PM »
I don't think this is something you can "clear up with Neph." It's all down to how the individual voter sees it.

For example, I'd see everything after Brock as floor 2.

I mean the special hard clause that I'm thinking I'm missing. Past that, yeah.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #585 on: September 12, 2009, 04:30:13 PM »
<MonkeyBulletSeedHype> Are there any restrictions on Mew's TM thing, besides the whole "pokemon can only have 4 moves" thing?
<Nephrite> Not right now.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #586 on: September 12, 2009, 04:34:27 PM »
That's that, then. You're probably going off Bullet Seed hype or Rydia. If RD concerns you that much, Rydia is safer, but I can't help but feel Rosa would be the better PC for the party.

(That's why I don't really like "entirely shuts down a type period" fights in floor 1. Hard-locks teams too much. I still remember the "people who have MT floor 1" scramble back when floor 1 had a Jogurt swarm)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 04:42:35 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
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Nephrite

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #587 on: September 12, 2009, 05:08:03 PM »
Asking for one person on a team to have some type of non-physical offense isn't really asking -that- much.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #588 on: September 12, 2009, 05:14:45 PM »
Is it really necessary to enforce it in such a way when half the floor 1 fights already reward mages, though (Steelix/Knight/Shuckle and Lich off the top of my head)? Not to mention that there are ways for even parties with mages to get screwed over by Rampage Drive if their offense is poor enough, and this very much fucks over mages who start getting their spellset -after- floor 1 (Angela is an example). It's a bit much to ask from a party that's more or less at rags, I feel.

Not to mention that this kind of floor design encourages poor team construction instead of encouraging more intelligent teams (focus on "I NEED TO GET PAST ONE SLAP A MAGE THAT HAS NOTHING TO OFFER PAST THAT FIXED" instead of "hey, I could create a pretty cool team with these factors added together"), and that utterly sucks. Stemming a bevy of neat team concepts from the get-go due to a circumstancial bumper (even if it is more imaginary than real) is just poor form.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 06:45:27 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #589 on: September 12, 2009, 06:09:56 PM »
FWIW, I agree that Rampage Drive is a little heavy-handed for floor 1.  Parties should have a mage, but it screws you over if that mage is Angela / Purim / etc.

The real concern I have in the team, though, is Nash: he doesn't get his money status (Sleep) until floor 4, and until then, his statusin' really needs work for dungeon purposes, being turn two on average, and that slump could be costly.

Floor 4?  Unless this is some weird SSSC vs. SS deal, that's way too late.  Floor 3 at the latest to me, possibly Floor 2 depending on how the floors are chopped up.  I want to say you should be about level 20 once Luna gets kidnapped and you assemble the full party?  I'm sure I had Sleep two dungeons or so later than that, anyway.

That said, in a party with Tidus, Angela's advantages over Nash might her worth the speed drop anyway on the theory that Tidus can Haste her in when needed.  (Rampage Drive permitting.)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 06:17:21 PM by SnowFire »

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #590 on: September 12, 2009, 06:44:02 PM »
FWIW, I agree that Rampage Drive is a little heavy-handed for floor 1.  Parties should have a mage, but it screws you over if that mage is Angela / Purim / etc.

The real concern I have in the team, though, is Nash: he doesn't get his money status (Sleep) until floor 4, and until then, his statusin' really needs work for dungeon purposes, being turn two on average, and that slump could be costly.

Floor 4?  Unless this is some weird SSSC vs. SS deal, that's way too late.  Floor 3 at the latest to me, possibly Floor 2 depending on how the floors are chopped up.  I want to say you should be about level 20 once Luna gets kidnapped and you assemble the full party?  I'm sure I had Sleep two dungeons or so later than that, anyway.

And that's about where midgame lies. You have covered at least 1/3 of the game when Luna gets nicked away. >_> I had Sleep by that weird-ass garden that leads you to the balloon for the Red Dragon, IIRC, and that's F4 for me pretty definitely.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

SnowFire

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #591 on: September 12, 2009, 07:06:19 PM »
Yeah, I had it for the garden too...  while the Frontier / Disc 2 is a lot shorter than Disc 1, it's not nothing.  1/3 of 7 floors would be 2.33, toss in an extra dungeon (2.5?), so yeah, that'd be Floor 3 pretty cleanly to me. ;-)

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #592 on: September 13, 2009, 12:14:09 PM »
Wait, doesn't Mew get access to all TMs from the start?

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #593 on: September 13, 2009, 01:16:44 PM »
... so VP2 Lenneth/Chaz(Alex)/Eiko/Peppita/Lise then?

(If Chaz starts off w/th this Zan then I'll have back up for Rampage Drive since Magic doesn't seem to think Eiko handles that fight - even if it is lol for ever after)

Sealstone suggestions?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 01:46:32 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #594 on: September 13, 2009, 01:47:51 PM »
Wait, doesn't Mew get access to all TMs from the start?

That would be horribly overpowered. EQ/Psychic/Fire Blast/Thunder/all those buffs from the very getgo? That's a bit much for 4, let alone 3.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #595 on: September 13, 2009, 02:08:39 PM »
Ah. I read "FULL TM" in his dungeon choice as meaning you get all TMs from the start. To be fair, no one ever contested me when I hyped Light Screen/Reflect/Protect from Floor 3. :P

CT: Maybe the MT Sealstone? Lenneth can get 25% MT Def/Res Up, 25% MT Atk Up, 40% MT Healing and MT Revival from the start then. Her damage really never gets hype until Glance Reviver, and Eiko can handle your high MT Healing needs anyway.

Alternatively, you can go vanilla and not use a Sealstone, since I can't see the other sealstones as being massively useful on this team.

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #596 on: September 13, 2009, 02:57:09 PM »
Ah. I read "FULL TM" in his dungeon choice as meaning you get all TMs from the start. To be fair, no one ever contested me when I hyped Light Screen/Reflect/Protect from Floor 3. :P


They probably just didn't bother to comb a TM FAQ like I did and find out that protect on floor 3 is totally insane. (And while I wouldn't call light screen floor 3, it's reasonable, and reflect is easily 3, 2 if you're generous.)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 03:08:42 PM by Monkeyfinger »

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #597 on: September 13, 2009, 06:39:43 PM »
Actually, Neph adjusted Floor 3 to counter Mew's Protect.

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #598 on: September 14, 2009, 04:33:01 AM »
... so VP2 Lenneth/Chaz(Alex)/Eiko/Peppita/Lise then?

(If Chaz starts off w/th this Zan then I'll have back up for Rampage Drive since Magic doesn't seem to think Eiko handles that fight - even if it is lol for ever after)

Sealstone suggestions?


Could add Firefly to Chaz, for all that it's not really adding much to your team. I really like this design. Seems solid. I'd also definitely go with Chaz over Alex, for earlier extra Magic damage and eventual extra revival.

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!
« Reply #599 on: September 14, 2009, 05:42:09 AM »
Actually, Neph adjusted Floor 3 to counter Mew's Protect.

He probably just didn't bother to comb a TM FAQ like I did and blah blah blah