Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Every PC. It's not broke, as you're limited by LoD inventory size there.

That and half the cast really sucks at using them and they look a lot more impressive with hitting weakness in-game anyway, which isn't an advantage oft-enjoyed in the dungeon, although they'll look good until Dragoons start kicking in.

[hinode]

Is there a list of team synergies somewhere? I couldn't find it on either the wiki or the front page of either stickied Dungeon topic, and I'm not willing to dig through 20+ pages to find one.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

There isn't a list, at least not yet: currently, Neph has been tossing them in as a case-by-case basis, and they come up as teams based on the bonus surge.

[Nephrite]

Correct, if you want to brainstorm on some possible ones, I'd be more than happy to do so.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Huh... I suggest allowing Suikoden mages from different suikoden games to combo their Lv4 charges together as if they were from the same game. Not a great synergy, but it makes sense to me.

[Dhyerwolf]

Every PC. It's not broke, as you're limited by LoD inventory size there.

That and half the cast really sucks at using them and they look a lot more impressive with hitting weakness in-game anyway, which isn't an advantage oft-enjoyed in the dungeon, although they'll look good until Dragoons start kicking in.

The items are actually pretty solid in their own rights. Not massive damage, but keep pace with physicals decently. My gut is that Shana's ST versions hover around the 50% mark, and Meru's maybe 45% (And think the MT versions are 2/3 power, so they can add up quickly).

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Well yes, they make okay MT if used by the right people, and it helps that the good magic PCs are the fast ones. I thought there'd be a point with a slump, though, since I remember the MT items sorta dying off a bit after the ship without weakness-hitting.

[Dhyerwolf]

Well, don't think there were storebought item upgrades in general, so the damage spike in disk 3 will make items look a little worse.

[Cmdr_King]

My memory is that by disc 3 (ie when everyone has their Dragoon forms) you tend to go through items on randoms and blow holes in bosses with Special, so you don't really need them there.  Granted, Lloyd/Divine Dragon/that other thing should negate that.  I don't... actually remember it doing so much though?  I think maybe physicals just caught up to spells by then so their lack of weakness made physicals equally-effective-but-cheaper.
(Then of course Disc 4 is "lolPsychBombX")

[Dhyerwolf]

Physicals get a notable boost (This is why Albert can go through half the game with like 70% damage and have nowhere near that in the DL!)

[Clear Tranquil]

Rose Storm is still quite effective in the DL though!

I'm currently on a no additions run and it's ridiculous how easy most enemies are w/th just magicks even considering weaknesses. Though I do abuse stat up/downs a lot. I knew that anyway from previous Meru/Sharanda abuse on previous files though >_> The only "challenge" that comes from this run is that SP gain and thus dragoon levels are restricted by equipment/spirit potions so no Blue Sea Dragon abuse yet for OTT ridiculousness. I could have but I couldn't be assed grinding. Oh and I lost to Lloyd once being low on item stock after Windigo and having the Angel Robe on Miranda instead of Meru. Won when I stuck the Angel Robe on Meru. Being more offensive w/th Freezing Rings instead of trying to heal/revive with Miranda is good apparently. I don't normally carry Angel's Prayers so yeah >_>

Syuveil
*Speed Down, Speed Up, Power Down, Power Up applied
*Not all in one battle
Freezing Ring Special-2742
Freezing Ring-1828
Gravity Grabber (weakness) Meru-2574
Gravity Grabber (weakness) Miranda -3070
Psyche Bomb X Miranda (160~ so %) - 4432

Even Star Children does 1600~ Special though. Sighs. Team was L30 average. Blue Sea Dragon Special at L30 w/th stat ups/down is probably around 5'400 vs pretty bad magic defence. Next up for the no additions run Belzac with god awful magic defence or Damia w/th pretty good magic defence =-)

Oh and another reason for not picking up BSD was to see if the dragoons became any more challenging (I was training for d levels for Faust then decided it would be pretty redundant if I fought Faust fully prepared to do the dragoons and other optionals later) Syuveil was still easier than I thought though. Oh well.

This is why I find such from a guy who says the girls except Rose suck and that he will never use them amusing~

http://www.youtube.com/user/ZellDincht1226#p/c/C35460CF60EC4C6B/119/u9kMmHBWHKk
http://www.youtube.com/user/ZellDincht1226#p/c/C35460CF60EC4C6B/120/Z-JuYOKGsyU

Legend Casque abuse wut.

Each to their own I suppose.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Dungeon fight idea, I apologize in advance.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!

Team vs. Blastoise (PKMN), Kiwi (ShF2), Bowser (SMRPG), Cagnazzo (FF4)

[Clear Tranquil]

*calls up an army of Merus to run circles around 'em*

[Taishyr]

Needs Slade to play the role of Splinter.

[VySaika]

Dungeon fight idea, I apologize in advance.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!

Team vs. Blastoise (PKMN), Kiwi (ShF2), Bowser (SMRPG), Cagnazzo (FF4)

Needs Slade to play the role of Splinter.

I approve of this idea 100%.

[Nephrite]

This came up in chat, I figure I'll post my thoughts here.

Sealstones. There are certain combinations I'm really not pleased with. For example, the MT stone, then using abilities to boost the damage back to normal, which basically invalidates the sealstone entirely. I don't like that -- I was going to nerf the ability to add attack to people with it, but some people expressed concerns that they're just becoming more problematic than fun.

My personal idea was to have certain people who only come with sealstones. For example, Rand with Firefly, Ricardo with Life. Those would be the only people who got them and would help make them a little bit more... unique.

It was also commented I should just leave them in and I'm okay with that too. I think I just need to come to a consensus on each one that I'm not unhappy with.

[dude789]

What if we changed the sealstone so that it functions more like Lufia 2 spells.  So that if you target 2 people it's 50% normal effect, 3 people it's 33%, but you get to choose who you want to hit so if there was a group of 3 enemies you could choose to only hit two of them. Also put a restriction on it so that you have to target at least two people.

[Talaysen]

Don't really like the idea of locking sealstones to characters myself.  It gives the characters something unique that they can't even ever get in-game (while sealstones before could be stuck to ANYONE which was at least fair) and can completely change them from how they were in-game.  Just seems way too arbitrary.

[Random Consonant]

Yeah, making Sealstones locked to characters just seems needlessly restrictive.

As for the MT sealstone itself... I pretty much agree with dude's suggestion.  Sure it makes it a bit more niche, but it also makes it harder to abuse with a hard-hitting STer (hi Claude!) and someone with a notable attack buff.

[Nitori]

people coming up with ways around sealstone drawbacks

Even if you don't like that it is uh incredibly obvious that people will try to do that~

[Nephrite]

people coming up with ways around sealstone drawbacks

Even if you don't like that it is uh incredibly obvious that people will try to do that~

I am aware of that, but there are certain exploits (buffing up a Firefly holder) that simply unbalance things in a way that I'm not happy with.

[Dhyerwolf]

You could limit it so that the halved effect is the maxed effect too (So it's not buffable). Of course, there would be something then for immuning already MT attacks from the halving unless you just want the sealstone to be worse overall. Similar to what was done to the Firefly (And even then that's been changed to something else). The other style of idea works too, although makes voting even more complicated!

I agree that making weird lock down choices on the Seal stones is non sensical and basically removes most of the fun of trying to come up with new combos. I approve of making it niche like that if it was a niche the character had in game (Aka, add Rody or S4 Eugene with restrictionless Firefly!)

[DjinnAndTonic]

Man, Restrictionless Rody w/ Firefly and Wall Rune would still be pretty awesome. 3.0 just for the buffing/endless revival tricks it would work with. The dungeon would need a whole lot more MT to balance this.

[Dhyerwolf]

Even the awesomeness of limited Firefly has shown us that it's worth 4 points unlimited. Granted, I guess I don't know how much MT there is or not (And it would be blah on floor 3...although hmm, not sure if ST non damage (aka status) focuses on Firefly. Granted, maybe both games don't even have that).

[Clear Tranquil]

This came up in chat, I figure I'll post my thoughts here.

Sealstones. There are certain combinations I'm really not pleased with. For example, the MT stone, then using abilities to boost the damage back to normal, which basically invalidates the sealstone entirely. I don't like that -- I was going to nerf the ability to add attack to people with it, but some people expressed concerns that they're just becoming more problematic than fun.

Well yeah part of the fun is finding good support abilities/characters to offence like Power Dance Peppita/Song of Madness Nei to work w/th sealstones such as MT, especially with such characters already having issues (ARPG interps/charge times in those two cases) that have put people off using them before. Anything that inspires people to use dungeon characters instead of leaving them languishing is a good thing in my opinion. I dunno if allowing those abilities to boost offence to normal w/th MT's too broken though allowing them to boost beyond normal probably is (perhaps put a cap on the support skill instead?)

We all I think also have to take into account that the dungeon is constantly being modified all the time (nothing wrong with that!), certain floors have changed/evolved and are still becoming harder and harder (nothing wrong with that either!) - well floors had to be modified as sealstones were introduced so things wouldn't be too broke - so I think it's fair people are at least able to try to twink/tweak for these floors or vice versa (that idea you had where for a certain floor sealstones would break was interesting, I liked that one. Maybe that could be a forced floor or something)

I think too that the ratio of success to failure for project teams is another thing that has be taken into account (I know my ideas usually always explode horribly despite sealstones/etc) it's just the luck of the draw really, nobody really has the upper hand

Regardless you are the dungeon master and it's your right to modify the dungeon as you chose, the rest of us will just have to eat and lump it