Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[Yoshiken]

Oh yeah. Discussed this with Piggy, but thought I'd post it here for... well, something of a laugh.

Complete blitz team. No healing whatsoever, but... well, that's the point. It's designed to kill quickly, and maybe survive a turn if it's lucky?

Fogel (4.0)
Emily (3.0)
Gilder (2.5)
Cray (1.0) (Speed?)
Nall (0.5)

Fogel and Emily smash things while Cray power-boosts (or defence-boosts, if my team's likely to lose too much health) and Gilder (eventually) initiative status-blocks and maybe hastes. Nall picks the team up again to blitz next turn.
I'm thinking it'll reach Floor 3 at the most. Thoughts? ;p
(And, even if I do go with this team, it won't be in until after the GRAND TEAM OF 'TACHE.)

[Clear Tranquil]

I have no idea. Uno's four horse team is currently strong enough to stand on it's own as far as I'm concerned without even thinking about Ditto  (and it's been that way since the beginning of his run for me) but who knows how long that'll last and besides that's three fighters with options + Aeris >.> As Uno has shown us (for the second time <.<) it can work ... but the blend has to be just so. No healing at all might be cutting it a bit too thin >.> I have no idea if your above idea even makes it to F3~

[Yoshiken]

Mm, Tai suggested switching Emily for some magical blitzing, which would definitely be a good idea. I thought Mew, and Neph suggested Geddoe. Geddoe's probably faster/more durable, but Mew has more choices and Psychic is generally non-elemental...
Leaning towards Mew for the choices, but could easily be swayed, seeing as I don't know Geddoe at all past LIGHTNING OWNAGE.

[Clear Tranquil]

Wait you're actually serious about running this? >.>

I wasn't sure but yeah ... really seriously?

* Clear Tranquil EYES

In that case I will try to help out with it this weekend when I have more free time to think about mages and stuff ... I only know Mew out of those two so yeah <.<

[Yoshiken]

Heh, yeah, I want to run it just to see how far it can actually get. My dungeon teams aren't so much for awesome as much as just interesting pokes around. And moustaches, in the case of my current team.

[Clear Tranquil]

I think you should go for an MT mage then if possible ... though Mew's really powerful he's ST ... (I think >.>)

Since this brought up in dungeontalk and also by super I figure this might be useful -

Suggested set ups + CP notes for Peppita -

CP total 15

CP costs

Charge (4 CP)
Aerial (2 CP)
Magic Hook (2 CP)
Frozen Daggers (3 CP)
Power Dance (6 CP, large AoE/MT)
Instanto Blast (4 CP, gains "splash" damage @ L4)
Panic Dance (6 CP, large AoE/MT)
Kaboom (5 CP, situational GT)
Healing Dance (6 CP, large AoE/MT)
Faerie Friend (6 CP, AoE/GT with "tornado" section, "suction" effect)
Magical Dance (6 CP - post game, large AoE/MT)
Dream Hammer (5 CP, spammable, ST but more powerful modifiers per swing than Faerie Friend)

Supports -

Critical Hit MP (2 CP)
First Aid (1 CP)
Standby Healing (1 CP)

Other -

Increase HP damage (4 CP, for physicals/counters)
Increase MP damage (4 CP, for physicals/counters)
Stun (2 CP, for physicals, counters)
Critical Hit (2 CP, for physicals counters)

Obviously Peppita's dances and big cannons are clearly expensive thus should be treated with caution but also wisely and strategically as they wouldn't be expensive if they weren't good. Right right? At least there are a few status options to throw in there.

Some sample set ups (some are based on my in game set ups and such too) -

*All set ups can be chained or in the case of dances left running until Peppita runs out of fury unless specified -

Magic Hook (LX), Magic Hook (LO), Magic Hook (SX), Magic Hook (SO)(range shifting) + First Aid + Standby Healing (if you allow these >.>) - 10 CP

Magic Hook (LX), Magic Hook (LO), Frozen Daggers (SX), Frozen Daggers (SO)(range shifting, chaos, freeze), First Aid + Standby Healing - 12 CP

Power Dance (LX), Magic Hook (LO), Magic Hook/Frozen Daggers (SX), Magic Hook/Frozen Daggers (SO) (AoE buffing, range shifting, chaos, freeze) - 12/15 CP

Power Dance (SX) Panic Dance (SO) (AoE buffing, AoE chaos), Frozen Daggers (LO) (sniping, range only, can't combo, lower chance of freeze) -or- Panic Dance (SX) Frozen Daggers(SO), Power Dance (LX) (ranged, can't combo for slight buff increase through chain bonuses) - 15 CP

Instanto Blast (LX) Magic Hook (LO) Panic Dance (SX) Frozen Daggers (SO) (MP damage, status, AoE status, status) - 15 CP

Kaboom (LX), Kaboom (SO), Kaboom (SX) - 15 CP (range shifting)

Magic Hook (LX), Power Dance (SO), Kaboom (SX) - 13 CP

Healing Dance (LX), Healing Dance (LO) (non stop healing chains, easy levelling of Healing Dance) + Magic Hook/Frozen Daggers (SO) (sniping, can't combo) - 14/15 CP

Power Dance (LX), Healing Dance (LO) (buffing, healing) + Magic Hook/Frozen Daggers (sniping, can't combo) - 14/15 CP

Healing Dance (LX) Panic Dance (LO) (healing, AoE chaos) + Frozen Daggers (LO)(sniping, can't combo) - 15 CP

Healing Dance (LX), Magic Hook (LO), Magic Hook (SX), Kaboom/Frozen Daggers (SO) (healing, range shifting, chaos, healz till IDs/freeze) - 13/15 CP

Power Dance (SX) Faerie Friend (SO) (big damage cannon chain) Frozen Daggers/Magic Hook (LO)/Critical Hit MP (Support) (sniping, can't combo chance of added MP damage) - 14/15 CP

Power Dance (LX)  Magical Dance (LO) (AoE/MT buffing, AoE/MT MP healing) - 12 CP

Healing Dance (LX) Magical Dance (LO) (AoE/MT healing, AoE/MT MP healing) - 12 CP

Power Dance (SX) Dream Hammer (SO) (ultimate ST damage cannon)  Magic Hook (LX), Magic Hook (LO) (can combo, may range shift into PD/DH)) or Frozen Daggers (LO)/Critical Hit MP (Support) (sniping, can't combo or chance of added MP damage) - 14/15 CP)

*Note Magical Dance + Dream Hammer are Peppita's tome learned "ultimate" skills from the extra dungeons~

*Note dances cost 20 MP or HP (Magical) on minor (X) and 200 MP or HP (Magical) on major (O), in addition all dances have invincibility frames and low fury costs (must have been trying to make up for the CP costs huh )

[DjinnAndTonic]

At what level does she get 15 CP? What does she start with?

In your setups, could you show exactly which four skills (and supports?) you have equipped in a short list before listing the hard-to-decipher combos?

[Clear Tranquil]

She starts with 0 CP at L1 >.> I don't know what level exactly S03 characters have 15CP to work with only that they gain it rapidly and then are stuck with the CP limit forever and ever <.< I'll check a FAQ or something Edit: Yeah one per level according to the vids I just watched and yeah that fits with what I remember.

Those are my versions of lists Djinn >.> They aren't full fury expending combos or anything.

If I do this in typical SO3 format -

SX
SO
LX
LO
Support

... the post might get too big  

Hmmm ... well ok I'll try fixxing it up a bit at the weekend =-)

*Fixxed a bit, hope that makes more sense now Djinn =-)

[DjinnAndTonic]

Yeah, that's a little nicer. And I'm guessing that means Peppita gets 15 CP by floor... 3, then?

[Clear Tranquil]

>.> I can do it in standard SO3 format if peeps think it would flow better >.> I'm worried about big posts but I guess anyone really interested would stick with it anyway

Yeah definitely by F3. Whenever you see Power Dance at/as really (L15) ~

Guess I need to rework some old ideas now that Peppita's not so cheap >.>

Terra (3.0) (Life)
Peppita (2.0)
Siefer (1.0)
Orlandu (4.0)
Meru (0.5)(starts with dragoon spirit)

Terra starts with revival off Cure Life, picks up her own Life on F2 (L12 according to super) so the Life sealstone then gets punted to Rainbow Breath Meru and possibly Healing Dance Peppita later. Does Terra learn Life2? Hmmm ....

[superaielman]

Terra learns Life 2 on floor 8 (L49ish). It's useful but only for the later parts of the dungeon.

[dude789]

Just a couple more ideas for people to think about.

Tibarn (Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn-3.5
Pros: Very, very badass stats and damage. Hits very hard and because of doubles has a very good change of completely obliterating things with Tear. Laughs at evadeable attacks and has Pavise to make it even more difficult to damage him. Even if you do hit him he has ridiculous HP and solid defense. Counters and if you allow it,  the leadership bonus is a nice bonus for the team and Savior makes rescuing a legitimate option.
Cons: Is average speed and can be picked off before he can transform. Wind and arrow weaknesses are bad. Is entirely ST and can't do anything to the physically immune. There isn't a whole lot he can do besides damage.

Dorothy (Wizard of OZ Beyond the Yellow Brick Road) -4.0
Pros: Acts 4 times per turn! She has a wide array of buffs and healing and she can do it all in one turn. Power Boost is fantastic for physical attackers and Overclock is good for everyone. Has an accurate status in Dreamland and Mirror Skin completely ruins mages. She's also pretty fast. 
Cons: Frail, and will run out of gas very, very, fast if she spams her buffs. Although her first action is fast her others come later and later in the turn. Damage is crap until late and even then she has to use her HP to deal damage.

Alternatively, we could allow Dorothy only one action and she'd still be a pretty interesting 2.0 or something.

[Dark Holy Elf]

For what it's worth I disagree pretty strongly with giving opponents a shot at attacking Tibarn untransformed since this can never happen in-game.

[Bardiche]

I'm not sure if Oz is played enough to put it up in Nyarla...

If "people who have played it" isn't an issue, clearly we should get on the Taupy Hype Train.

[dude789]

For what it's worth I disagree pretty strongly with giving opponents a shot at attacking Tibarn untransformed since this can never happen in-game.

This isn't set in stone. If a buch of people want to let him start off transformed then that's fine with me. Although if we decide to let him start transformed he probably deserves a half point increase to 4.0.

[Clear Tranquil]

*rewaves Dorothy flag* I think it's about time we had another Godlike ... none of them have really been appealing to me for what I need.

The Tibarn dude looks interesting too. He has more stuffs (skills, etc) than Fogel? When thinking on Uno's team I can't help but thinking it'd be nice if Fogel could do more than just smash things >.>

Yikes Terra learns full revival late >.<

[DjinnAndTonic]

I'm still waiting on Nils. Since the beginning of this topic. *folds arms*

C'mon, you know he's awesome for this.

[Bardiche]

Doesn't Sacred Slayer do the "give moar turns" thing... better?

[DjinnAndTonic]

Yes, but Nils would be the lower cost, more well-known option so that people can actually vote on my team.

[Yoshiken]

The Tibarn dude looks interesting too. He has more stuffs (skills, etc) than Fogel? When thinking on Uno's team I can't help but thinking it'd be nice if Fogel could do more than just smash things >.>

Tibarn doesn't have skills, really. He can.. occasionally critical?!?! Good evasion?

Honestly, if we go for a Laguz royal, it should be Naesala, methinks. Trades a bit of that strength for a decent Wind spell but still has crazy evasion and solid damage.

[dude789]

The main reason I went for Tibarn is I think Neph got rid of Kyogre since he was sick of seeing him in teams and I think he plans on changing Fogel back to being compared to characters when he joins. For now at least Tibarn fills that void of a nice consistent pile of stats who makes up for what he lacks in skillset with pure power. As for Naesala vs Tibarn, they actually have about even strength according to the stat topic. Tibarn is more durable against physicals, more evasive and comes with Pavise and Savior opposed to Vantage and Maelstrom. Naesala does have much better resist and slightly better speed though.

For dungeon purposes I think Tibarn works better becuase I think not being able to counter ranged attacks is a necessary weakness to counteract his stat dominance. Also Vantage adds another calculation that the voter has to do when figuring out a match that involves Naesala.

[Bardiche]

Yes, but Nils would be the lower cost, more well-known option so that people can actually vote on my team.

True. Then again, iirc Dancer/Bard evasion is crazyhigh at all times until the end stages when others catch up... And he has FIRE EMBLEM BUFFS!... For now though you can use Sacred Slayer who does the Turn Hax as well and better to boot.

[Yoshiken]

Dude: Hmm, fair point on Vantage. Although, I was more referring to FE9 Naesala rather than FE10, since it's better played. Fairly sure he's more frail there, and Vortex won't counter at range, since it's not an equippable weapon.

As for changing the overpowered characters, I somehow doubt another one will be added if Neph's removing the ones who already are there. ;p

[Nephrite]

It isn't necessarily changing overpowered characters, it's fixing things so people aren't overpowered because of a nuance (such as Kyogre or Fogel's "earlygame" stat dominance). I can easily change the rulings on them, like having Fogel always scaled to endgame and thus changing his point cost to reflect it.

Tibarn would level up like normal I would assume and wouldn't be QUITE as amazing... Although perhaps I don't fully understand.

[dude789]

To compare FE 10 Tibarn with Orlandu, by endgame both do similar damage at about 90% PCHP. Tibarn has a 64% chance to activate Tear and do a ton of damage to an enemy during his attack sequence and counters melee attacks while Orlandu has various effects attached to his attacks and has an argument to hit more than one enemy with some of his attacks. Tibarn is average speed vs. Orlandu's 160% average or whatever it is. Tibarn is extremely hard to hit at all times and has a good chance to activate Pavise which negates all damage whereas Orlandu can get some evade depending on his setup. Their durabilities are about the same with Tibarn being better against physicals and Orlandu being better against magic. The big difference between the two is that Tibarn is always powerful whereas Orlandu has to wait until Excalibur to become obscene, but Orlandu has FFT equips which give him a bunch of elemental and status resist options while Tibarn will always be weak to wind/arrows and will be vulnerable to status due to his low resistance.

To Summarize

Orlandu:
-Much faster
-Has Effects attached to his damage
-FFT equips

Tibarn:
-Better damage with Tear
-Evasion and counters
-Starts out almost as good as he ends

A couple more notes about Tibarn, FE 10 Tibarn is more interesting than FE 9 Tibarn. FE9 Tibarn actually reaches the OHKO with an attack and has slightly better durability, but has less evasion and has less interesting skills overall. For dungeon scaling purposes, Tibarn shows up in the last chapter of FE 9 and as a result would probably stay the same throughout the dungeon. FE 10 Tibarn still shows up late, but shows up a little overleveled and his relative stats probably stay the same. The only difference is that his Tear and Pavise rate is probably a bit lower.

Edit: Also this comparison to Orlandu made me think of an interesting team idea. Theoretically you could make a team with Orlandu and some other character who has an ability that drags enemies to one place and have Orlandu smite all of them at once. Currently, the only character I've found who has that ability is Yuri 2 and you'd have to use Jane (you can order your allies actions with Follow Me) with those two to get the full effect, but I wouldn't be suprised if someone else had a similar ability and is a bit cheaper (Feena maybe!).