Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Brainstorming Topic!

[DjinnAndTonic]

FF6 Ghost
Lufia Aguro
PKMN Butterfree
KH Goofy: These first 4 mainly are there to add more punies which I think aside from godlike is the smallest division we have. They all have various roles that so far haven't been filled in puny (IDer, physical tank and damage dealer, status whore, and mp restorer respectively)

Really apathetic towards Aguro, but Ghost and Butterfree sound like fun Punies. I don't remember Goofy's MP restore personally. Does he have an endless supply of Ether or something? When does he get it? Early? Late? How much MP does he restore?

Other ideas with no playership~

FE 10 Elincia: She's probably one of the most interesting FE characters around due to Amiti, skills and staves. When I first suggested her FE10 playership wasn't that good, but it's risen a bit and their seems to be a lot of interest in it. 

I wouldn't mind seeing her in the dungeon, I can think of some uses for an FE character who can heal OR deal damage.

[Yoshiken]

Goofy gets MP Gift, but hell if I know how much it restores. Ghost seems like an AWESOME idea, pure apathy towards Butterfree. Elincia is dull but works.

[Magic Fanatic]

Goofy gets MP Gift, but hell if I know how much it restores. Ghost seems like an AWESOME idea, pure apathy towards Butterfree. Elincia is dull but works.

Costs 1 MP to restore 2 MP on an ally (where max MP for a character is...  What, 7?  8?).  How useful is it?  I don't have a clue.  He is the recommended ally for the Neverland Clock Tower optional boss, though.

[SnowFire]

Ghost strikes me as not even a 0.5 due to the fact he can't be revived after he uses his one shot of ID, so it's a once-per-floor deal.  Awful stats mean that nothing happens fast enough.

I think King Cureslime might still be too obscure?  I didn't fight them very often myself, maybe only three or four times in-game, and they didn't join up.  Dunno if I got unlucky or what.

Re the other mentioned XF suggestions:
* Not a fan of Clarissa, too swingy.  She can completely and utterly upend the enemy team...  maybe.  Rob Turn->Rob Turn->etc. for every opposing team member in initiative order.  But it has to stop somewhere.  So what, let her first Rob Turn work but not later ones?  That's just buying into the Gambler's Fallacy, though.  If Clarissa's first Rob Turn succeeds there's no reason not to try again and Rob the next enemy turn coming up, it's still the same 75% chance.  So occasionally Clarissa will fail it up completely, and other times she'll cancel the entire squad's turn.  Meh.
* Levin is doable, but he's like a 5.0 pick.  Think of it this way: Shale's team was completely broken because it had Tidus w/ Sonic Steel initiative Hasting Millenia into Spellbinding Eyes, which were then backed by infinite SP-healing from Rikku.  That (using the old Tidus at 3.5 pts) is a 6 pt combo counting just Tidus & Millenia, or a 10 point one (9.5 at the time since Tidus used to be 3) including Rikku.  But this was still awesome, because the scariest boss was just out of the fight, and Shale could walk all over battles that were "one really scary boss and support."  Levin is this entire equation in one character.  He's already insanely fast so doesn't need Tidus and his resources are far deeper than Millenia's.  It doesn't work quite as well on super-speedy opponents, yes, so it is a bit worse than the full SS-Tidus / Millenia / Rikku combo, but again...  *one person* who makes many, many fights complete jokes.  Pair him with far more common MP-restorers (unlike Millenia who needs someone who can restore SP) and the resource issues, which aren't THAT bad anyway, even go away.

Gadgeteer sounds fine at least, if a bit annoying to keep track of his item loadout (7's not THAT many).

[Yoshiken]

Ghost strikes me as not even a 0.5 due to the fact he can't be revived after he uses his one shot of ID, so it's a once-per-floor deal.  Awful stats mean that nothing happens fast enough.

Ehh, I'd see taking some liberties there to allow for revival as fine. The fact that it's 100% ID that requires revival for each use after the first and comes from bad stats makes it an interesting 0.5 pick.

[Talaysen]

* Not a fan of Clarissa, too swingy.  She can completely and utterly upend the enemy team...  maybe.  Rob Turn->Rob Turn->etc. for every opposing team member in initiative order.  But it has to stop somewhere.  So what, let her first Rob Turn work but not later ones?  That's just buying into the Gambler's Fallacy, though.  If Clarissa's first Rob Turn succeeds there's no reason not to try again and Rob the next enemy turn coming up, it's still the same 75% chance.  So occasionally Clarissa will fail it up completely, and other times she'll cancel the entire squad's turn.  Meh.

75% chance of cancelling first turn, ~56% of two, and so on.  If she's trying to grab more turns, she's hitting really bad overall odds.  It's just probabilities, just like any MT status user.

Ehh, I'd see taking some liberties there to allow for revival as fine. The fact that it's 100% ID that requires revival for each use after the first and comes from bad stats makes it an interesting 0.5 pick.

Hell no.  That's simply impossible in-game.

If you want to take liberties that actually make sense, you can allow the team to get another Ghost between battles since you CAN do that in-game.  I forget if they were limited though.

This is probably better anyway.

[Yoshiken]

Sure, OPB works. Same overall effect and makes it actually worth spending 0.5 on.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Ghost strikes me as not even a 0.5 due to the fact he can't be revived after he uses his one shot of ID, so it's a once-per-floor deal.  Awful stats mean that nothing happens fast enough.

Make it a two-Ghost combo set for 0.5~! Extra bodies for those multi-Godlike teams!

Re the other mentioned XF suggestions:
* Not a fan of Clarissa, too swingy.  She can completely and utterly upend the enemy team...  maybe.  Rob Turn->Rob Turn->etc. for every opposing team member in initiative order.  But it has to stop somewhere.  So what, let her first Rob Turn work but not later ones?  That's just buying into the Gambler's Fallacy, though.  If Clarissa's first Rob Turn succeeds there's no reason not to try again and Rob the next enemy turn coming up, it's still the same 75% chance.  So occasionally Clarissa will fail it up completely, and other times she'll cancel the entire squad's turn.  Meh.

I don't remember what it is, but I -know- there's a method for determining successive chances for failures like you're talking about. She's awesome, yes, but not as swingy as you're thinking. Also, Rob Turn is apparently resistable like a status, so she's essentially just another awesome status whore with that strategy. I'd think Sacrifice and the speed buffing would be the reasons she's so awesome. Probably my favorite XF option.

* Levin is doable, but he's like a 5.0 pick.  Think of it this way: Shale's team was completely broken because it had Tidus w/ Sonic Steel initiative Hasting Millenia into Spellbinding Eyes, which were then backed by infinite SP-healing from Rikku.  That (using the old Tidus at 3.5 pts) is a 6 pt combo counting just Tidus & Millenia, or a 10 point one (9.5 at the time since Tidus used to be 3) including Rikku.  But this was still awesome, because the scariest boss was just out of the fight, and Shale could walk all over battles that were "one really scary boss and support."  Levin is this entire equation in one character.  He's already insanely fast so doesn't need Tidus and his resources are far deeper than Millenia's.  It doesn't work quite as well on super-speedy opponents, yes, so it is a bit worse than the full SS-Tidus / Millenia / Rikku combo, but again...  *one person* who makes many, many fights complete jokes.  Pair him with far more common MP-restorers (unlike Millenia who needs someone who can restore SP) and the resource issues, which aren't THAT bad anyway, even go away.

He is quite good. No denying that. But there is more to the Dungeon than just "One scary boss + support" battles. I'm thinking the reason the XF PCs are -truly- worth 4.0+ is because their skillsets are available from the start, and pretty much just scale up linearly throughout much of the game (especially if you don't considering job-changing in the averages at all). So they are pretty awesome right out of the box, unlike say Cecelia, Blue, or Yuri. However, unlike Cecelia, Blue, Yuri, they could conceivably get worse in comparison to the generics or job-changing averages. Not sure there. If you really wanted to make sure that they don't break the dungeon, you could saddle either of them into a 6.0 combo of Clarissa+Labrynthia or Levin+Tony or something.

Gadgeteer sounds fine at least, if a bit annoying to keep track of his item loadout (7's not THAT many).

Gadgeteer is fun, I'm all for it~

[Clear Tranquil]

Bah let's do this -

Nel 3.0
Peppita 3.0
Maria (Common Support Symbols) 2.0
Adray 1.0
Rena 0.5
Nall (doesn't take up party member slot) 1.0
Sealstone - Life (Nel, Maria, perhaps Peppita before Power Dance > Faerie Friend)

This team may crash and burn but I want to see what happens =D I don't know if the dungeon is ready for a Star Ocean team yet but yeah. It's definitely more ready than it has been with the revisions of stat topics and both Nel and now Peppy being known in the dungeon =-) Rena was in Snowfire's team too irrc.

Lot's of status whoring here at least >.>

[DjinnAndTonic]

Joke team idea:

Rolf (starts with Megid)
Ghost (FF6)
Bomb (FF6)
Prinny (Dis)
Virginia (w/ Replay)

Endless self-destruction team~

[Clear Tranquil]

More seriously, SO team aside - Maya (3.0), Peppita (3.0), Red XIII (2.5), Kiryl (2.0), Meru (0.5)

Sealstone - Elemental or Life

The idea - Maya w/th ice/water techs, Red XIII w/th Ice/Ice2/Ice3, Meru with ice/water spells, Peppita w/th Power Dance > Frozen Daggers (ice/water) (and she gets her unique Spike Shoes with adds water damage later) while the entire team together packs a hell of a lot of support to keep healthy (I was a bit worried about support overkill/lack of early offence until I thought about elemental strengths >.>) Life is just ... yeah. Four revivers!

[Bardiche]

Enemies can interrupt your elemental chain, right? And water/ice resistance, though rare, will shut down the team entirely... although admittedly, I can't offhand point to such a team.

[DjinnAndTonic]

The way I read Elemental, enemies couldn't interrupt the chain?

It's actually a pretty cool idea. And Maya makes a good enough utility character that it might actually last long enough to get going?

Not sure Red XIII is the best 2.5 for the job, though. Cristo is also replacable if you need to shuffle things around for utility.

[Nephrite]

Both sides may take advantage of the same level of damage, but also break the chain with any other non-same spell.

[Clear Tranquil]

Thanks peeps.

Mmm Neph do elemental attacks as well as elemental spells take advantage of Elemental or is it just spells period? =-)

Djinn yeah Red's mainly there because hey F2 revival! He's fast too? Tai said the team was kind of lacking speed besides Red and Maya in a certain set up. Kiryl's mainly there as support/utility. Kabuff's pretty decent irrc and my girls would appreciate improved durability =-) Especially Meru >.>

[Nephrite]

Give me an example of an elemental "attack," that isn't a spell? You mean someone with a Fire Sword or something?

[Taishyr]

Flametongues, ultimate P2 weapons, P3 uniques, stuff like that, yeah.

[Clear Tranquil]

Well I was thinking of stuff like battle skills/Artes/elemental techs etc but yeah~ Basically skills and techs that derive their power from the ATK stat rather than MAG like spells.

[Nephrite]

If it's not a physical attack, then yes, it'd count. For example, I'm sure Persona 2 has an elemental attack that runs off of physical stats like Fire Sword or some nonsense.

[Bardiche]

Been thinking about a way to get Miakis in a usable team, since she's really quite good but takes some combinations to work really well.

I just haven't figured out what the combinations are, although it's certain she can deal a lot of damage. Wanted to write a floor-by-floor on what she gets but tomorrow, just noting that she truly shines from Floor 5 onward when she has L3s, Firefly, Boundary, Steel, Killer, Double-Edged, Power, Magic, Magic Absorb, Lightning, Cyclone (MT damage + 50% ID that she can recharge every other turn? Hell yes), Fire/Water Sealing... but until then she's mostly just "physical damage with magical abilities", depending on setups.

Idly considered Miakis (4.0), Sacred Slayer (2.0), Eiko (1.5), Lise (1.5), Spar (1.0) as a viable team, but it has issues with dealing damage; specifically Miakis is the only real damage dealer, as Sacred is just turn-shifting and healreviving with Life?, Eiko's healing and buffing mostly (maybe summoning later), Lise's probably going to run buffs and debuffs quite a bit and Spar exists solely to Atk Up Miakis if she goes the physical route, otherwise Lise.

The major con is the lack of magical damage beyond what Miakis carries, and until Magic Absorb her charges of magic damage are limited. Very much feels like a character that needs to be carried by the team until she gets going, at which point she can dominate fights.

I'm sure there's some setup that can use her well.

[Magic Fanatic]

Ponderance for dungeon pick.

Mariel (Wild Arms: Alter Code F) - Either 0.5 (Without PSs) or 1.5 (With PSs)

Consideration: levels up at about the same speed as normal PCs would if they were progressing through the plot.

Pro: Comes with free choice of equippable PSs, including but not limited to FP Advance, Defense Up 1/2/3/4, Blocker 1/2, and Regeneration!  Skills can recover HP and MP, and then there's also the Status Apple shenanigans.  Extend is also fun to play around with, and she gets WA1 FP gains.
Cons: Is jealous of Raja's durability.  Slower than Kongol.

[Bardiche]

I got the mood to theory a little, and so I wondered if it were possible to create a team so stupidly overspeeding it'd blitz anything by sheer virtue of barraging with assaults.

While I know Neph's Dungeon's been asleep for quite a while, I don't suppose there's a lot of objection against just pondering a little.

The team I came up with is

Billy
Jude
Tidus
Bowser (Speed?)
Ivan

Billy, Tidus and Ivan are all capable of increasing speed. To boot, Ivan is very speedy himself, can double-act, has a slew of status effects. Tidus can Hastega and Slowga to manage the fight, and Billy also brings healing and some form of buffing to the table.

Then there were two slots left... I figure Bowser with Speed? gets a good first turn, and with a serious buff that reduces damage received for the entire party he can somewhat salvage the otherwise very poor durability on the team. Jude is crazyfast and can dish out continuous damage a loooot.

The idea is, of course, for Tidus to Hastega the team, Bowser to Terrorise, Ivan to sling status, Billy to take care of healing and Jude ultimately chipping alongside Tidus when the buffing is done. And then drive the pain home when he gets that move that increases damage as the difference in speed increases.

Clear weaknesses are the obvious lack of magical offence, the fact that Jude's accuracy is nothing to write home about, and that there is only one Healer whose durability is not the thing of legends. Still, it's a fast team that I think can actuallyadvance to at least floor 3, and then it starts to struggle as th dungeon becomes versatile.

Certainly nothing to hype above my current entry, but it was an interesting thought. I still prefer to lay down a lot of pain quickly rather than do a lot of damage in small doses.

[Magic Fanatic]

Myself and a few other people were looking over your team, and it looked like it had a few issues with it.  I don't know as much as I should about Billy and Ivan, but I'm told that the Billy/Ivan/Bowser (Speed?) set is a good core.  Tidus and Jude, however, take far too long to really go from average-at-best to good.  After talking it over with Tai for a while, we both thought that switching out those two for Tia and Toadstool, just for other types of speed, might be a good idea.  'Cause with your current set-up, you might not make it past F2 with that team.  Lilka is another good idea for powerful speeders, same for WAo Jack, Crowley, Yosuke...  Yeah, take your pick.

[Bardiche]

You're absolutely right. I'd forgotten the slow start Jude has, and Tidus' money skills don't come until later.

Tia and Toadstool could be interesting swaps, given Toadstool's healing benefiting the team and Tia having a variety of abilities... I'm not sure Tia is the greatest choice, though. The idea is to have someone who can lap the enemies a few times and work 'em down that way, but I guess it's also not a bad idea to just focus on being fast AND hard-hitting, sacrificing some speed for more ow.

I should check points but I am a little lazy right now.

[Taishyr]

I suggested Tia for a second healer/reviver/fast status/damage user. She's frail as hell but with her/Toadstool/Billy you have oodles of healing so it's not too burdensome.