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Author Topic: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)  (Read 11768 times)

Talaysen

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Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« on: August 27, 2008, 10:34:44 PM »
From NEB?

All right, this is simple enough. I had some free time, so I decided to post the full stats and damage estimates for every PC in the final cast of Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete. I'm using the PSX version for this (which is what most people seem to consider, in the RPGP). Also, I'm using endgame levels and equipment. In other words, no Althena's Sword, Fierce Fist, or anything else obtained in the aftergame.

Finally, I'm using my usual "two characters at most can equip = unique" policy. Without this, Hiro and Leo take a serious hit to their defence (Master Shield, Master Helmet, and Dyne's Armour are used by both). Keep that in mind. Also, I disallow all accessories and crests. I can't think of any good storyline accessory (like Alex's Dragon Ring in Lunar 1) anyway. All characters are at Level 51, which is the level at which I finished the game, and also the level at which every character has all their final spells (except Ronfar's nigh-useless full-party status healing, learned well into the aftergame).

About the stats:

HP = Hit Points. You know what these are.
MP = Magic Points. Note that Lunar 2 PCs are entirely dependent on MP to do anything close to real damage.
Atk = Attack Power. How good the character's regular attacks are, and also affects the strength of physical spells (Triple Sword, etc.).
#At = Number of attacks. How many times the character attacks physically when using the attack command. Fairly useless in the RPGP.
Def = Defence. Reduces physical damage, though not by all that much. HP is the best indicator of durability, in this game.
Agi = Agility. I'm not 100% sure, but I think this affects both hit rate and evade rate. Evasion is very rare in Lunar, though (and non-existant when techs are involved).
Spd = Speed. How fast the character acts. Important, obviously.
Wis = Wisdom. Affects damage done by magical spells (e.g. Catastrophe).
MDef = Magic Defence. Reduces magical damage, though again, not by much. Lemina is the most fragile character when it comes to taking magical damage, despite having the highest MDef, because of low HP.
Rng = Range. How far the character can move when he or she uses the attack command. Useless in the RPGP.
Luk = Luck. This increases the odds of critical hits (as does having high attack relative to the enemy's defence). If it has other effects, I don't know about them. As such, I consider this fairly useless in the RPGP too, since only regular attacks can score criticals.

Hiro

Ghaleon's Sword (+100 Atk, +9 Wis/MDf)
Master Shield (+42 Def)
Master Helm (+29 Def)
Dyne's Armor (+64 Def)

HP 406
MP 171
Atk 92 (192)
#At 3
Def 102 (237)
Agi 89
Spd 99
Wis 94 (103)
MDf 94 (103)
Rng 23
Luk 17

Triple Sword: 1236 physical damage, spread out over three hits (30 MP)
Concussion Sword: 50% chance of instant death, does 88 damage if it fails (20 MP)
Cross-Boomerang: 164 wind magic damage (6 MP)
Speed Storm: Raises Hiro's Agility (NOT speed). I've never noticed this to have much of an effect, though (8 MP)

Notes: Hiro is, as you might expect for a hero, the best of his (PC) cast. He hits for incredibly high damage, is fast, has good HP, and a respectable death attack if necessary.

Ronfar

Holy Mace (+93 Atk, +8 Wis/MDf)
Holy Bracelet (+38 Def)
Aura Bandana (+24 Def, +5 MDf)
Miracle Clothes (+60 Def, +6 MDf)

HP 349
MP 250
Atk 99 (192)
#At 2
Def 91 (213)
Agi 69
Spd 77
Wis 105 (113)
MDf 97 (116)
Rng 18
Luk 20

Shining Litany: Ronfar drains 139 magic damage from the enemy (30 MP)
Purity Litany: Restores 999 HP (12 MP)
Attack sequence: 78 physical damage, spread out over two hits
Divine Litany: Casts Regen, allowing Ronfar to gain 10% of his max HP every turn (20 MP)
Cleansing Litany: Restores status (18 MP)

Notes: Well, he can heal. And... that's about the only good thing I have to say about him. Remember Jessica? She at least had the advantage of speed and being in a Lunar game where the Attack sequence did actual damage. Ronfar is sluggish (his speed is closer to Lemina's than it is to Hiro's, let alone Jean's) and can't do any real damage. The parasitic healing of Shining Litany is pathetic one-on-one. He's just not cut out for the RPGP.

Jean

Crushing Fist (+87 Atk)
Tiger Armlet (+36 Def)
Holy Hairpin (+24 Def)
Tiger Wrap (+69 Def) (o_O Jean gets the best armour in the game)

HP 349
MP 168
Atk 91 (178)
#At 3
Def 90 (219)
Agi 109
Spd 119
Wis 82
MDf 77
Rng 28
Luk 19

Blue Dragon Palm: 400 physical damage (10 MP)
Slam Dance: At the end of each of the next three rounds, Jean will launch an attack dealing 370 physical damage. These attacks do not count against Jean's turn (though using Slam Dance itself does). Dispellable. (32 MP)
Dream Dance: 50% chance of causing Sleep, and does some negligible magic damage (9 MP). Sleep causes the target to sleep until hit with a physical attack (if it wears off normally, I've never seen it happen) which will deal 1.5x damage.
Swarm Dance: 50% chance of causing Paralysis, and does some negligible magic damage (12 MP). Paralyse lasts a few rounds (4, maybe?) during which time the opponent can not act.
Butterfly Dance: 50% chance of causing Poison, and does some negligible magic damage (9 MP). Poison doesn't wear off, and causes the opponent to lose 10% of his or her HP a round.

Notes: Jean is often touted as a better Nash, but this isn't strictly true. Her status attacks aren't nearly as accurate, and the damage they do isn't that important. Fortunately, Jean still packs massive speed, and can do some decent damage. Slam Dance and Blue Dragon Palm together will quickly dispatch many opponents, and if she gets her status magic to hit, she's still in good shape. Lowish HP for a fighter (it's equal to Ronfar's) is her main weakness.

Lemina

[Any Staff]
Psycho Guantlet (+33 Def)
Holy Hairpin (+24 Def)
Aura Robe (+60 Def, +7 Wis/MDf)

HP 293
MP 356
Atk 67
#At 1
Def 81 (198)
Agi 58
Spd 62
Wis 121 (128)
MDf 123 (130)
Rng 17
Luk 15

Catastrophe: 979 magic damage (55 MP)
Ice Arrows: 313 ice magic damage (16 MP)
Magic Seal: 50% chance of causing Silence (3 MP). Silence is permanent.
Magic Swiper: Drains MP. I never had this doing more than trivial damage. (1 MP)
Dispel Magic: Dispels positive status and stat boosts (3 MP)
Cryo-Shield: Increases Def by 50% (16 MP)

Notes: Lemina has an excellent skillset. It's a pity that her stats are absolute garbage. Her Catastrophe is the only damage in the game that comes close to equalling that of Hiro, and her support spells aren't bad. However, her durability and speed are both the worst in the game. High MDef doesn't help nearly as much as you'd expect.

Leo

Master Sword (+94 Atk, +2 Def/Agi/Spd/Rng)
Master Shield (+42 Def)
Master Helm (+29 Def)
Dyne's Armor (+64 Def)

HP 451
MP 154
Atk 140 (234)
#At 2
Def 107 (244)
Agi 79 (81)
Spd 72 (74)
Wis 74
MDf 68
Rng 22 (24)
Luk 14

Soul Blade: 664 physical damage, heals 90 HP to Leo (26 MP)
Rock Cobra: 160 earth magic damage (8 MP)
Earth Prayer: Boosts Leo's attack and defence by 25% (15 MP)

Notes: As much as I like Leo, he's not really that great a Heavy. Massive HP means he can take the most punishment of any Lunar 2 PC, and his damage isn't bad (though so far behind Hiro's it isn't funny). The healing it provides isn't much, though, and Earth Prayer is an overrated move. He's also a little on the slow side, and lacks variety.

Lucia

The very nature of Lucia makes her hard to judge in the Arena. She has AI, and a brief form which has Level 99 stats. I'll take a look at her endgame form (where she fights Zophar form 4), though really, how you judge her is very subjective.

Stat-wise, she's more or less equal to Lemina, give or take a few points (it's impossible to check except in stores, which is impossible at endgame). The only exception is her Defence, which is closer to that of Jean (i.e. average instead of crap). Her one stat I know for certainty is HP, at 292.

She has the following moves:

Atomic Burn: 197 magic damage
Heal Litany: Restores 202 HP
Solar Bomb: *NOTE: I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS ATTACK* Allegedly, this can eliminate weak enemies. Whether this is ID, removal, 100%, or not, I don't know. I don't consider the move personally, since I hold Lucia to her AI, and her AI never once dictated her to use this attack in-game.
Magic Barrier: Increases defence by about 25%.

She also has other, useless moves such as weaker attack spells and a attack-raising spell.

Lucia appears to have some (but not total) status immunities, such as Confusion and Silence. Basically, anything that might force her to attack. She has no attack command.

Notes: As mentioned, personal judgement plays a large role in how one sees Lucia. That said, I give her in-game AI, and disallow her Blue Spire form, which means she's even worse than Ronfar.

Character rankings

By HP (average 370):

1. Leo, 451
2. Hiro, 406
3t. Ronfar, 349
3t. Jean, 349
5. Lemina, 293

By Speed (average 86):

1. Jean, 119
2. Hiro, 99
3. Ronfar, 77
4. Leo, 74
5. Lemina, 62

By Defence (average 222):

1. Leo, 244
2. Hiro, 237
3. Jean, 219
4. Ronfar, 213
5. Lemina, 198

By Magic Defence (average 98):

1. Lemina, 130
2. Ronfar, 116
3. Hiro, 103
4. Jean, 77
5. Leo, 68

By optimum average damage output (average 680):

1. Hiro, 1236
2. Lemina, 979
3. Leo, 664
4. Jean, 400
5. Ronfar, 139

Well, that should do for now. Discuss, if you wish.

Talaysen

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 10:35:30 PM »
From Meeple

Lucia post (Meeplelard)
hmm...you left out Plasma Rain on Lucia's attack List. That move is weaker than Atomic Burn, doing about 110, IIRC, but can't give an exact number, though, it probably don't matter. Lucia does have SOME AI in game, you'll notice she does things based on Situation. I notice she never uses Plasma Rain when there is one lone enemy in the battle, as she'd always opt for Atomic Burn. When ther are multiple enemies, her attacks are kind of Random, but again, it doesn't matter what she does in game when she fights Multiplie Enemies, if only cause she's fighting one enemy.
Heal Litany she tends to use on Characters when they are near Dead, or Hiro if he's in any sort of Slight fear of Dying (by slight, I mean he's still got more than 55% of his HP left, she'll feel inclined to heal him), but meh. Anyway, I'd reflect this that if she's near dead, she'd cast Heal Litany, since she tends to do so in agme. She rarely casts Magic Barrier late game, frm my Experience, though.

And yes, I haven't seen Solar Bomb either.

I noticed she's also immune to the SIlence Status effect (VERY Good considering she's a pure Mage), but not that it helps her much, since her Damage still downright sucks.

About her stats, yeah, they are Leminaesque with Jean-level defense, roughly, though I believe she also had considerably higher AGL than Lemina too, but I could be wrong.

she might not be so Puny, considering when she uses Heal Litany, she could stand against SOME lights, maybe, but meh, she sucks regardless. Not the worst Lunar PC though (that title obviously goes to Ramus)

Those who are Curious about Lucia's BS form, I can give some info on that:
Her Atomic Burn, which she rarely uses (She likes to open Plasma Rain, though, that maybe because of the amount of enemies on the Screen), does a good 710 Damage or so. Her Plasma Rain, which she loves to use, does about 550.
Her Speed, as you'd expect from someone whose "Level 99" (not sure if she really is or is just based off Hiro's Stats and is just VERY Ubered), is well above the rest of the casts, as she ALWAYS acts first. And finally, IIRC, her HP was 777.

However, I personally disallow the BS form, if only cause its a Plot Form for that area, and such. I'd say she is forced to uses her butchered self, since that's what she is most of the game (otherwise, I could say the Lufia 2 Cast starts with Full IP Gauges, always, or Cloud always starts with Omnislash Ready and has a 100% Counter Attack rate to boot)

And if your curious, Cursed LUcia makes Jogurt look like a Light (as opposed to the Definition of Puny) She has 1 HP, whcih for a Lunar character, si WORSE than 1 HP for a ShF character, and I have yet to seeif she has any attack, I';ve only seen her defend.

Epilogue stats (Meeplelard)
Alright, I'll post Epilogue Stats here, since people wanted them, and think they're legit or something. Damages tested in the Star dragon Tower enemies, where they all seem to have balanced Defense and Mgaic Defense.
NOTE: Not going to bother listing anything that doesn't do damage, since, really, those moves will be the same anyway.

Levels are 61 for everyone.

Hiro:

Equipment:
Althena's Sword (+111 Attack, +7 to all Stats)
Dragon Shield (+50 Defense)
Dragon Helmet (+45 Defense)
Dragon Armor (+75 Defense, Halves Fire Damage)

Stats:
HP: 492
MP: 213
Defense: 290
Agility: 112
Speed: 125
Wisdom: 117
Magic Defense: 120

Abilities:
Cross Boomerang: 160, Wind Magic
Triple Sword: 1650 (550 x3, to be exact)
Concussion Sword: 50% Chance ID, 120 damage on Failure
Attack Sequence: 330

Ronfar:

Equipment:
Holy Mace (+91 Attack, +8 Wisdom and Magic Defense)
Goddess Brace (+44 Defense)
Miracle Headband (+27 Defense, +4 to all Stats)
Saint Clothes (+70 defense, +7 Magic Defense) (Chaos Armor (Defense raises as HP lowers, +8 Luck)

Stats:
HP: 425
MP: 302
Defense: 251 (???)
Agility: 85
Speed: 96
Wisdom: 135
Magic Defense: 135 (128)

Abilities:
Attack Sequence: 210 Damage (Spread over 2 hits)
Shining Litany: 160 Damage, Heals for same amount
His Healing abilities are % Based off Current HP, so they won't change at all

NOTE: Haven't really tested Chaos Armor and how effective it is. Probably not worth using, all things considered, but still an option.

Jean:

Equipment:
Beserker Claw (+99 Attack) (Fierce Fist (+60 Attack, gets stronger as HP gets Lower))
Lunn's Armlet (+43 Defense)
Goddess Hairpin (+30 Defense)
Scarlet Wrap (+77 Defense)

Stats:
HP: 425 (still equal to Ronfar, yay!)
MP: 194
Defense: 270
Agility: 127
Speed: 140
Wisdom: 96
Magic Defense: 88

Abilities:
Blue Dragon Palm: 523
Slam Dance: 484
Attack Sequence: 352 (spread over 4 hits)
Her status dances do too little damage to care about.

NOTE: Not sure what gives it, but apparently, Jean has some Auto Regen, equal to 10% of her Max HP. Also, haven't had much chance to test the Fierce Fist, but its damage doesn't start passing Beserker's fist til about the 50% mark in HP or so. not totally certain on this mind you (and thanks to her Regen, things are even more a pain to test *Stabs*) Its more practical than Ronfar's Chaos Armor though

Lemina:

Equipment:
Sage Staff (this REALLY doesn't matter, but its TECHNICALLY her best)
Goddess Gauntlet (+40 Defense)
Fantasy Ribbon (+30 Defense)
Sage Robe (+70 Defense, +8 Wisdom and Magic Defense)

Stats:
HP: 359
MP: 442
Defense: 238
Agility: 68
Speed: 75 (...)
Wisdom: 149
Magic Defense: 152

Abilities:
Catastrophe: 1000 damage, does half that if multiple targets are hit (IOW, same as most FF6 spells)
Cryoshield: Boosts Defense by 95
NOTE: I believe stat boosters are Percentage Based off that stat, too lazy to figure out what that percentage is
Crysoshield 2nd Casting: Boosts Defense by 63

Leo:
Equipment:
Nameless Sword (+105 Attack, +5 Defense and Magic Defense)
Holy Shield (+46 Defense, +4 Magic Defense)
Lion Helmet (+34 Defense)
Goddess Armor (+70 defense, +5 to Agility, Speed, Magic Defense, and Wisdom)

Stats:
HP: 537
MP: 190
Defense: 284 (awww, Hiro beats him now)
Agility: 98
Speed: 91
Wisdom: 92
Magic Defense: 96 (He Beats Jean now, yeah!)

Abilities:
Attack Sequence: 320 (Spread accross 2 Hits)
Soul Blade: 810, Heals 20% of his HP
Earth Prayer: +72 Attack, +62 defense
Soul Blade w/ Earth Prayer: 970 damage, heals 20% of His HP
Rock Cobra: 190, Earth elemental Magic damage

NOTE: Soul Blade is NOT based off damage done for the healing, its based entirely off his Max HP. Using it on an enemy that resisted Physicals, it healed the same as against an enemy that was weak to them. Likewise, It did Same damage before nad after Earth Prayer. Not going to bother with 2 Earth Prayers since Leo isn't fast enough to really make that matter, and the way LEBC stat boosts slowly decline as battle goes on makes it not worth it.

A few things noticed:
Hiro gets better, no matter how you look at it. He now ranks first in Defense, does more Relative damage (I think), resists Fire, and is faster too.
Jean gets a slight boost, if only cause now the Fierce Fist is an alternative that could help her out, possibly winning a match for her she couldn't before (again, this is hypothetical) And of course, the Auto Regen is a nice benefit too
Ronfar...hasn't changed at all. Go Figure, still same relative stats, and still has nothing close to good damage. Actually, he gets worse in a sense, since his best Damage is no longer Shining Litany, thus, no Parasitic healing with his best Damage, kind of.
Leo gains some magic defense, but loses Physical defense (Ranks #2 instead of #1), and I think his relative Damage is now better than before, hard to say though, since I haven't figured the average out (Triple Sword got a major boost, but Catastrophe went up a measly 50 points sleep.gif)
That Leaves Lemina. Well, stat wise, she hasn't changed (everything but Magic Defense sucks, IOW), damage wise, she's definatly gone down a bit, since her damage hasn't changed much since Fighting Zophar, and whisle 2nd best, Triple Sword is now doing a good 50% more than it (as opposed to only 30%), Soul Blade is now close in power, so she obviously gets hurt in that regard

All in all, most things stay the same, besides a few minor changes here adn there (Hiro getting Fire Resistance and game best defense, Jean's Regen, Leo's damage being a bit higher), but otherwise, it won't really matter much in the end if you take Stats from right before Zophar, or at the end of Epilogue (IOW, right before Star Dragon), since in general, things don't change that much.

From Dhyer

Because this is better than cursing his name everytime he comes up: Gwyn notes.

Those are considering Gwyn and Hiro.
Gwyn
HP: 66 (79.5% of average)
MP: 51
Def: 32 (34 Average, Takes 1 extra from each hit of a regular physical)
MDef: 30 (Takes either 0.5 less from each spelled)
Spd: 19 (Average 27.5)
Agi: 22 (Average of 26.5. Evasion stat)

Physical: 27 (46% of Average)
Heal Litany: Heals 35 HP, 4 MP
Rust Armor: Adds 6 damage to his attack, Stackable twice, 6 MP
Rust Weapon: Reduces the best enemy's attack by 16 (Cuts damage on normal physicals by 8), Stackable twice, 6 MP

Talaysen

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 10:37:52 PM »
Bosses:

From Fenrir

ONLY relevant bosses here, I'm not crazy like Meeple. *Hides the Blackman plushie*
Some moves may ignore evade, but evading happens so rarely in this game that it's nearly impossible to test.
The data of boss attacks (the biggest work) of False Althena and Ghaleon come from Gourry.

Note: The average damage is the average damage taken against the boss in this topic. Lucia isn't considered for the average damage.


[size=14]Leo[/size]



HP: 750 (I'm trusting a faq for the HP scores. Seems correct; his HP were between 710 and760 from my tests)
Speed: Slower than Hiro (I'd say that he has the same speed as his PC form)

Like False Althena, Leo has a cycle. 1-5 then repeats.
1) Flash Blade: 100 physical damage.
2) Crack Point: 43 earth elemental damage. MT.
3) Rock Crush: 50 earth elemental damage. Hits an area of PCs.
4) Buzz Blade: 55 physical damage. Area
5) Rock Viper: 63 earth elemental damage.
At half HPs or below, he'll automatically use a Passion Fruit to restore 999 HP. Doesn't break the cycle (Example: 1-2-3-Passion Fruit-4-5)

Hiro fights him alone.
HP: 254
Damage: 200

Comments: Well, he's exactly like the PC, with a little more durability. Middle. I take that form with a grain of salt, though, and don't allow him to heal.



[size=14]Lunn[/size]



HP: 2100
Speed: Slower than Jean. (....)

Attack Sequence: 70 physical damage spread out over 2 hits.
Jump: 70 physical damage.
Shadow Dragon Palm: 110 damage. Probably physical.
Concentrate: Restores 370 HP, Increases defense by ~30 at first, then by slightly less. (27 for the second, 23 for the third... The defence raising is negligible in game anyway)

Jean fights him alone.
HP: 233
Damage: 335

Comments: Good dueller. He wins slugfests against most middles, and his healing makes him win against anyone who doesn't have above average damage or isn't drastically faster. However he (apparently) doesn't have anything but physical damage, and 3HKO at best. Speed? Average and losing tiebreaks, if you ask me. High Middle.



[size=14]Borgan[/size]



HP: 4100
Speed: Slower than Ronfar, Faster than Lemina.
Good magic defense.

Black Wave: 90 magical damage, hits a group. 65-70% chance of inflicting sleep (It worked 27 times out of 40)
Black Tornado: 155 magical damage. MT.
Distortion: Drains 95 MP. Slower than Lucia.
Dark Mirror: Creates a shield that absorbs 750 HP. Faster than Jean. (200 speed!)

5PCs fight him: Hiro, Lucia, Jean, Ronfar and Lemina.
Average HP: 264
Average damage: 195
Edit: Average MP: Around 190.

Comments: Dark Mirror (Chibi Initiative Chaos Shield) makes him an interpretation nightmare. Pretty standard boss outside of this, with unimpressive durability and only magical damage. Heavy.



[size=14]False Althena[/size]



HP: Roughly 10,000.
Non existant physical defense, bad magical defense.
Agility: Usually goes after Hiro, Jean, and sometimes Ronfar, but before Lemina and Lucia.

Moves
---
She has a cycle. She goes 1-5, then repeats.
1. Staff above head- Defense +6. Doesn't stack. d00d.
2. Staff Throw- 220-260 (Hiro takes 220, Lemina takes 255, Lucia and Jean take ~235, Ronfar takes 244) MT.
3. Physical Attack- 90. Can poison. Takes off roughly 20% HP a turn.
4. 5 Orb Attack- 240. Makes her go last in the round.
5. Ray- 350-510. (505 to Hiro. 506 to Jean. 493 to Ronfar. 355 to Lucia. 491 to Lemina. Ouch). False Althena goes first. I'm pretty sure this is elementally aligned. Thunder, to be exact. Line. 200 Speed. Sick.

Average damage: 400 (Note: Remember that this is the average damage factoring her defense)
(She followed the pattern for me at the beginning, and acted randomly after killing 3 PCs with Ray. Not that it matters.)
5 PCs fight her: Hiro, Ronfar, Lemina, Jean and Lucia.
Average HP: 312
Comments: Damage, speed, and decent durability. Godlike.

(Hiro HP: 374 Defense: 226 MgcDef: 85 Speed: 92
Ronfar HP: 321 Defense: 207 MgcDef: 112 Speed: 72
Jean HP: 321 Defense: 213 MgcDef: 73 Speed: 109
Lemina HP: 269 Defense: 186 MgcDef: 120 Speed: 57
Lucia HP: 274 Defense: Dunno. Usually, she's around Jean's level. MgcDef: Dunno. At level 45, she beats Lemina out by 38 points. Speed: Generally the same as Lemina.)



[size=14]Ghaleon[/size]



Speed: Slower than Ronfar, faster than Leo.
Strong against all elements.

Ghaleon Form 1
HP: 3000

Attack: 189 physical damage.
Lighting Stab: 337 thunder elemental damage. Slower than Lemina.

5 PCs fight him: Hiro, Jean, Lemina, Leo and Ronfar
Average HP: 347
Average damage: 103

Comments: GODLIKE! FEAR! This form has two major problems, though;
1) The entire team cannot use magic during this fight, so their damage is drastically lower than it should be.
2) Ghaleon uses the exact same attack in the next fight, and it does 150 less damage there. Sounds like not having magic lowered their endurance. (On another hand, he doesn't go last anymore when using it during the second fight. Take that as you will)
So yeah, you need to take this form with a grain of salt.
Barely 2HKO damage, slow speed and PC durability for me. Low-Mid Middle.

Ghaleon Form 2
HP: 7000

Lightning Stab: 187 thunder elemental damage.
Thunder: 249 thunder elemental damage. Area. Slower than Lemina
Comet: 249 magical damage. MT.
Purple Circle: 299 magical damage. Roughly 80% chance of causing paralysis. Goes before Hiro, after Jean.

The same 5 PCs fight him.
Average HP: 347
Average damage: 254, 274 taking Lemina's damage as if Ghaleon wasn't strong against elements.

Comments: Your every day boss. Nice damage and status. Low Godlike.



[size=14]Zophar[/size]




[size=13]Zophar Form 1[/size]

HP: 16000

Skull Attack- 230. Can Silence. Goes last (slow)
Fire Storm- 205-230. Not Fire. Seems unaligned. Goes last. MT.
Circle Thing- 255-280. Goes before Lemina and after everyone else. Area.
Laser Thing- 330. Goes after Ronfar and before Leo.
Comments: He doesn't want this form.


[size=13]Zophar Form 2[/size]

This form is basically the same as Form 3. However, only the upper and lower can attack and be attacked (only by ranged attacks). They have different attacks than Form 3. The battle lasts for 5 rounds.
Blue Comet- 80. MT.
Rain -110. Zone.
Laser -140.

Comments: Well, this is more of a plot fight than anything. The two hands can be destroyed during that phase though.


[size=13]Zophar Form 3[/size]

Head- ~16000-17000?
Upper Right Hand- 8000
Lower Right Hand- 8000
Upper Middle Hand- 7000 (resistant to magic)
Lower Left Hand- 7000 (resistant to physicals)

Head
---
Zophar will use only fast spells at the beginning, and only slow ones after taking some damage. (Roughly 4000 damage)
Status Ball- 80-90. Can Silence, Poison, Paralyze, and Confuse. Faster than Jean.
Blue Pillar Thing- 340. Faster than Jean.
Dispel, Area- Dunno what the difference is. Faster than Jean.
Dispel, Single- Faster than Jean.
Splash- 185. Faster than Jean.
Green Ball- 133. Faster than Jean.
All of those probably have 996 speed. Sick.
-
Blue Comet- 225. MT. Slower than Lemina.
Fate Storm- 7400. Slower than Lemina, faster than Lower Left Hand.
Gold Flash- 300. Dunno whether this is him or not. Slower than Lemina

Upper Middle Hand
---
Heal- Heals 1500+ Faster than Leo. I've seen it heal ~3400 once.
Drain- 260-275. Goes before Ronfar. Gives 260-275 to every part of Zophar left.
MP Drain- Drains +150 MP. Faster than Leo.

Upper and Lower Right Hands
---
Ball- ~160. Before Ronfar, after everyone else.

Lower Left Hand
---
Lightning Attack- 300. Slower than Lemina.
Fire Pillar- 280. Fire Element. Slower than Lemina.
Wind Attack- 300. Slower than Lemina.
Ice Thing- 270. Dunno if it's really ice or not. Slower than Lemina.

The same 5 PCs fight the first two forms.
Average HP: 370
Average damage: 680
Average MP: 220
Comments: Well, duh, Godlike no matter how rash you are with him. Unless you hold him to his final form...

[size=13]Zophar Form 4[/size]

HP: 2000
Speed: After Hiro, before Lucia.

Eat- 100 magical damage.
Light Ball- 90 magical damage.

He fights Hiro and Lucia.
Average HP: 352
Average damage: 715

Comments: Evil Gaia.

dude789

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2009, 03:10:40 AM »
I was recently playing through and I noticed that Lucia has another version of the Atomic Burn spell. It attacks the area surrounding her and does about 60% more than the regular Atomic Burn spell. It requires a few enemies to be near her for her to use it, and so far the only enemies I've been able to test it on are the mirror's in Althena's Tower who resist magic. Her regular Atomic Burn spell does about 60 to them while this version does 100. If you allow it, it should be a nice boost to her damage.

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2009, 03:14:39 AM »
IIRC, that Atomic Burst just replaced her old one, I thought, after a certain level, and from what I recall, damage values listed in this topic seem based off that since from what I remember it doing about that much damage end game myself.
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dude789

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2009, 03:37:53 AM »
Her current stats are taken when she fights Zophar with Hiro at the end of the game. She can't even use the stronger version in that fight  because I'm pretty sure that her AI will only use it when she's surrounded by about 3 enemies. It's not the same Atomic burn she uses in her Blue Spire form. I discovered it when right before the FA fight where she already has regained her Blue Spire spells.

Edit: Her regular Atomic Burn does similar damage to what the topic's listed to Stone Creeps and Cannon Angels who are the only enemies in Althena's Road who aren't strong or weak to magic. Also since Lunar resistences cut damage to a third, Atomic Burn would do about 180 to the Plasma Prism without its magic resistance. This is also pretty consistent with Lucia's current damages. This means that her close range Atomic Burn would probably average a little over 330. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to test it on other foes, but the Plasma Prism's are the only ones who consistently use close ranged attacks in that dungeon.  

Edit 2: I was able to hit a Cannon Angel with it, and as expected it did about 330. Additionally, at this point my characters' levels were equal to the stat topic. I also have a bit more infor on when her AI will use it. When there are at least 2 enemies in range she will usually use it. Sometimes she will choose to use regular Atomic Burn or  Thunder Blow. This means that if you allow her control over her AI, her damage jumps to a 5HKO instead of a 9HKO or whatever she had previously.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 04:16:36 PM by dude789 »

DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 07:20:43 AM »
Lucia's spell learning:

Solar Bomb is Blue Spire only for all practical purposes.  Removes all enemies like Black Dragon Grief giving no EXP and cash.  Word out there is that she starts using it if Hiro reaches Lv 14 in the Blue Spire.

Upon losing her powers to the curse her spell list has Napalm Shot, Heal Litany, Magic Shield, Power Charge, and Blue Star Prayer.  She'll regain her spells at approximately the following points:
Lightning Bomb: after rejoining in Zulan mountains
Plasma Rain: after Pentagulia events
Thunder Blow: Lv 36, upgrade from Lightning Bomb
Plasma Rain: Lv 39, upgrade from Plasma Rain  Same name, different animation, spell power, and spell description
Atomic Burn: Lv 43, upgrade from Napalm Shot
Atomic Burn: Lv 47  This is the version that hits an area around Lucia.  It is a separate spell in her list.

as I was tracking her spell learning via the glitch (use Ronfar's Calm or Tranquil Litany in the menu and scroll over with L1 and R1) rather than hacking the game, level requirements were obtained by observing the rest of the party and may be slightly inaccurate.

Anger Dice ignores defense.  It's still subject to elemental resistance.  75 average damage is hardly scary though it's less taxing on resources against opponents where physicals aren't viable (Ramsus).

Ran some quick tests with the Fierce Fist.  First off, the damage bonus at lower HP only applies to regular attacks.  Second, testing has shown that it is a buff to the effective Attack stat; even at 1HP, she wasn't breaking defense against a Dark Eye.  And now numbers.  Test targets are mainly Axemen and Gatewalkers in the Lost Labyrinth.  Lv 57 with one Warrior Crest (left on for all tests for consistency)  Regular attack damages are from non critical hits.

Berserker Claw attack: 88 per hit
Berserker Claw BDP: 540
Fierce First attack full HP: 55 per hit
Fierce Fist BDP: 420
Fierce Fist BDP at 1 HP: 420
Fierce Fist attack 1 HP: 194-200 per hit
Fierce Fist attack half HP: 135 per hit
Fierce Fist, 1 HP, Burning Rage: 350 per hit  (Burning Rage/Power Drive added 70ish ATT to the 168 shown in the menu.  Also the damage is from the same turn as the ATT buff is cast, go go 2 Chiro Crest Lemina)

Tried whacking some Hobgoblins around to see the differences on low DEF targets.  The damage increase per strike at 1 HP versus full health came out to be about 120.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 08:35:21 AM by DragonKnight Zero »

Pirate King Gilder

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2014, 06:07:57 AM »
I've been sitting on some data for quite a while now (I've actually been working on a Battle Mechanics FAQ for the game; but I still need to complete the Bestiary and a bit of other work for it, which is going to end up being fairly time consuming because of how enemy data is treated in this game, so I haven't had time to get around to it yet), so I figure now is as good a time as any to post it since the topic's been brought back to the front.

Anyway, on to the data:

Physical Damage - This is simple subtraction, but there's an additional factor based on the difference between the character's level and the enemy's.  Physical Abilities function exactly the same, except that they multiply the Attack based part of the formula by a specified constant before subtracting Defense.

Normal Attack Damage Formula = max[1,((Character's Level - Enemy's Level)*2.5)] + (Character's Attack – (Enemy's Defense/2))

Physical Ability Damage Formula = max[1,((Character's Level - Enemy's Level)*2.5)] + ((Character's Attack*Ability's Power) – (Enemy's Defense/2))

(Note: Because the amount of random variance the Attack based part of Physical Attacks/Abilities have is based on the Character's Attack stat itself (the Level based part of the damage is 100% constant and has no variance whatsoever in comparison); the following constants that multiply it may not be 100% exact.  They have been tested extremely extensively however, and are exact to at least 2 decimal places if more than that is specified, and should be off by no more than a couple thousandths at absolute most regardless of the number of decimal places specified)

Physical Damage Constants:

Hiro:

Poe Sword - 2.36
Sybillium - 1.475
Battalion Sword - 2.46
Concussion Sword - 0.985
Triple Sword - 3 Hits of 2.96

Jean:

Blue Dragon Palm - 3.125
Blue Dragon Kick - 2.46
Blue Dragon Wave - 2.44
Blue Dragon Fist - 2.96
Dopple Dance - Creates a doppelganger that attacks 1 random Enemy at the end of each turn, and lasts for 3 Turns (Counting the turn that it was used)  - 1.76
Slam Dance -  Creates a doppelganger that attacks 1 random Enemy at the end of each turn, and lasts for 3 Turns (Counting the turn that it was used) - 2.96

Leo:

Flash Blade - 2.16
Buzz Blade - 1.96
Grizzle Blade - 1.56
Soul Blade - 3.44/Heals Leo by the amount dealt; Not actually a draining attack, since it's capable of doing more damage/restoring more health than the enemy actually has in HP.  The Healing part itself is capped at 20% of Leo's Max HP however

Magical Damage - Almost entirely based on the difference between the Caster's Level times a constant and the Target's level, with that result then being multiplied by 2.5 as in the Level based part of the Physical Damage Formula.  Wisdom and Magic Endurance are simply factored in at the end as a plain addend.  Yes, this does in fact mean that Wisdom is a near pointless dump stat that serves only to add 1 point of damage per point of it to even the strongest spells in the game.  (that, and Wisdom is also responsible for the random variance of Magical Abilities; a side effect of which is that the following constants are 100% exact before Character Wisdom and Enemy Magic Endurance is factored into the damage)

Magic Damage Formula = max[1,(((Character's Level*Ability's Power) - Enemy's Level)*2.5)] + (Character's Wisdom – (Enemy's Magic Endurance/2))

Magic Damage Constants:

Hiro:

Boomerang - 1.6
Cross Boomerang - 2.0
Squall - 1.7
Tempest - 2.1
Vortex - 1.4
Super Cyclone - 1.8

Lucia:

Napalm Shot - 1.6
Atomic Burn (Spark Canon) - 2.0
Lightning Bomb - 1.36
Thunder Blow - 1.56
Plasma Rain - 1.2
Plasma Rain (Homing Canon) - 1.5
Atomic Burn - 3

Ronfar:

Anger Dice - Doesn't use normal Magic Damage Formula.  Instead uses the formula: Damage = (Number Rolled*6) + (Ronfar’s Level - (Enemy’s Level/2)) As was stated above by DragonKnight Zero, this means that it completely ignores Enemy Magic Endurance.  It also means that Wisdom is completely useless for Ronfar outside of Destiny Dice until he either equips an elemental crest and/or learns Light Litany.

Destiny Dice - 1.8/Ronfar takes 5% of his Max HP in damage

Loaded Dice - 1.8 (Dummied out, but listing it for the sake of completeness) - 1.8 Power (Targets as though it could hit any ally or enemy; but, as its animation shows, it actually only tries to hit a random enemy or Ronfar.  I’ve never actually seen it hit Ronfar, however)

Light Litany - 1.96/Heals Ronfar by the amount dealt; Not actually a draining attack, since it's capable of doing more damage/restoring more health than the enemy actually has in HP.  Unlike Soul Blade, there's no cap on the amount that can be healed by this.

Shining Litany - 1.76 (Not a typo; it is in fact actually less useful against a single target than Light Litany was)/Heals entire party by the amount dealt divided evenly among all living party members; the notes regarding Light Litany listed above all apply to this as well.

Jean:

Moth Dance - 1.8
Butterfly Dance - 1.36
Sleep Step - 1.7
Dream Dance - 1.4
Bee Dance - 1.6
Swarm Dance - 1.46
Enchanted Kiss - 1.6
Soul Kiss - 1.7

(As with Ronfar's Shining Litany, the above are not typos.  All of Jean's Dances, barring Enchanted Kiss, do in fact become less useful against a single target when they're upgraded)

Lemina:

Flame - 1.8
Flame Shot - 2.2
Flame Bomb - 1.56
Pyro Pillar - 1.96
Burning Rain - 1.4
Crematorium - 2.2

Ice Pick - 1.8
Ice Arrows - 3.0
Ice Lance - 1.56
Ice Wall - 2.36
Freeze Claw - 1.4
Freeze Smash - 1.8

Magic Swiper - 1.016/Drains Enemy's MP (capped at their maximum, so it is actually a draining attack unlike the various HP Draining Abilities; unlike in some other games, it's not capped based on Lemina's maximum and/or how much she's currently missing however) and then Heals Lemina's MP by the amount drained.

Catastrophe - 4.6 against multiple targets/8.2 against a single target (Huge thanks to Meeplelard for mentioning that it was different way back when.  I don't think I ever would've thought to look into it if it weren't for that fact)

Lemina's Staff Spells:

Magic Staff - 1.2
Quake Staff - 1.4
Water Staff - 1.4
Flame Staff - 1.4
Thunder Staff - 1.4
Wind Staff - 1.4
Earth Staff - 1.08 
Ice Staff - 1.08 
Hellfire Staff - 1.08
Lightning Staff -1.08
Hurricane Staff -1.24 (Not a typo.  No idea why they decided to make this one alone disproportionately more powerful than the others; but it's in line with Hiro's own Enemy Area ranged Wind Spells in being like that, so it must've had to do with some kind of balancing effort on their part I'd imagine)
Sage's Staff -1.4

Leo:

Rock Viper - 1.8
Rock Cobra - 2.2
Rock Crush - 1.56
Rock Riot - 1.86
Crack Point - 1.4
Crack Zone - 1.8

Crest Only:

Wind Cutter - 1.8
Wind Slash - 2.1

Lightning Rain - 1.8
Thunder Bolt - 3.4
Plasma Shock - 1.56
Thunder Bomb - 1.86
Dancing Thunder - 1.4
Thunder Thrust - 1.8

Icicle Break - 2.1
Mighty Mistral - 2.1
Thunder Tornado - 2.1
Shining Flame - 2.1
Burning Quake - 2.1
Pulse Explosion - 2.3

Poison Dart - 1.6
Venom Dart - 2.2
Mind Blast - 1.6
Mind Burst - 2.2
Rogue Charm - 1.6
Fatal Flirting - 2.2

Red Dragon Anger - 3

Stat Buffs - Buffs will only Stack up to approximately 70-80% in a single use; e.g. if you use Power Flame twice (20-27% per use, for 40-54% total) and then use Power Drive afterwards, then it will only boost the target's Attack by about 16-30% on its first use (rather than its normal initial 40-47%) Any subsequent uses of the same type of Buffing Spell thereafter will only yield 8% of the target's Base Stat; regardless of what the Spell being used would normally give initially)

Buffing Spell Percentages:

Hiro:

Speed Storm - I have absolutely no idea, since no numbers are displayed for it.  I'll update this whenever I find where the in-battle stats are located, since then I'll be able to observe whatever the change is directly.

Lucia:

Power Charge - 20-27%
Magic Barrier - 20-27%

Lemina:

Power Flame - 20-27%
Power Drive - 40-47%, then 20-27% (If used again immediately, since Buffs slowly dissipate over time)

Ice Shell - 20-27%
Cryo-Shield - 40-47%, then 20-27% (Note regarding Power Drive applies here as well)

Magic Shield - Reduces Damage from Magic Attacks; I haven't tested this extensively yet, since I haven't gotten to testing the stats of enemies that actually cast magic yet.  It's probably around the same as it was in EB, which was just a flat 50% reduction in damage, though.  An interesting extra effect I have noted at this point that wasn't in EB:  It also often pushes back enemies that are trying to attack characters within the barrier using Short Range Normal Attacks, thereby preventing said attempted attacks altogether.

Leo:

Earth Prayer - 20-27%

Crest/Accessory Only:

Call Earth - Sets the Field Effect to Earth, which increases the Damage done by Earth Elemental Attacks by 50% and decreases the Damage done by Lightning and Wind Elemental Attacks by 10%.

Call Thunder - Sets the Field Effect to Lightning, which increases the Damage done by Lightning Elemental Attacks by 50% and decreases the Damage done by Earth and Ice Elemental Attacks by 10%.

Call Water - Sets the Field Effect to Water, which increases the Damage done by Ice Elemental Attacks by 50% and decreases the Damage done by Fire and Lightning Elemental Attacks by 10%.

Call Flame - Sets the Field Effect to Fire, which increases the Damage done by Fire Elemental Attacks by 50% and decreases the Damage done by Ice and Wind Elemental Attacks by 10%.

Call Wind - Sets the Field Effect to Wind, which increases the Damage done by Wind Elemental Attacks by 50% and decreases the Damage done by Earth and Fire Elemental Attacks by 10%.

Burning Rage - 40-47%, then 20-27% (Power Drive and Cryo-Shield note applies here as well)

White Dragon Protect - Makes party members invincible against 1 attack each

Debuffs:

Shattered Sword - 24-38% twice, then 0-2% each time thereafter
Fractured Armor - 24-38% twice, then 0-2% each time thereafter

Healing Spells - All Healing Abilities are Max HP% based (though a couple also have a very small fixed addend as well), with a very small amount of random variance, and are not affected by Wisdom whatsoever in this version

Healing Spell Percentages:

Lucia:

Heal Litany - 45 HP+40%
Blue Star Prayer - Revives Target with 100% of Max HP

Ronfar:

Recovery Coin - Day Side = Revive all Dead Allies with 50% of their Max HP; Night Side = 45 HP+40% Healing to all Allies

Heal Litany - 40%
Purity Litany - 100%
Calm Litany - 40%
Tranquil Litany - 60%
Saint Litany - 10% at the end of each turn; stacks with equipment that has the same effect
Divine Litany - Same as above, but for entire party
Revive Litany - Revives Target with 30% of Max HP
Miracle Litany - Revives Target with 100% of Max HP

Crest Only:

Blue Dragon Healing - Fully Heals Party and Cures any Status Effects

Miscellaneous Spells (Mainly status effect causing ones) that still need extensive testing:

Hiro:

Concussion Sword - Instant Death Success Rate
Speed Storm - As stated previously, the actual buffing amount

Lucia:

Solar Bomb - Banishment Success Rate and/or what's immune if it's just a binary success/failure situation

Ronfar:

Is there anything beyond random chance that effects the number rolled in Anger Dice or the results of Destiny Dice and Recovery Coin? (And can Loaded Dice even ever hit Ronfar?)

Jean:

Success Rate of All Status Dances

Lemina:

Success Rate of Status Causing Abilities
Exact Reduction Rate of Magic Shield

Crest Only:

Success Rate of Status Causing Abilities
Black Dragon Grief - Banishment Success Rate and/or what's immune if it's just a binary success/failure situation

If anyone has any questions regarding the above, feel free to ask.  That's all I've got for now, so I'll update this with more data as I become aware of how things work.

Hope this was useful in some way.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2014, 07:18:33 AM »
Ooh, awesome. Definitely keep us posted with any findings.

If I'm reading right the defensive stats aren't very potent, essentially cutting off just (def/2) or (m.end/2) from all damage. Obviously better against lots of weaker hits though (basic PC physicals, swarms of weaker enemies, etc.).

I assume Triple Sword benefits from the entire calculation being run three times (and adding in the level difference part three times, for better or worse).

Is enemy level documented anywhere? The guides I'm aware of with enemy stats don't list it.

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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2014, 09:45:12 AM »
I suddenly want to see a Proving Grounds centered around Lunar 2

Pirate King Gilder

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 11:34:49 PM »
Ooh, awesome. Definitely keep us posted with any findings.

If I'm reading right the defensive stats aren't very potent, essentially cutting off just (def/2) or (m.end/2) from all damage. Obviously better against lots of weaker hits though (basic PC physicals, swarms of weaker enemies, etc.).

I assume Triple Sword benefits from the entire calculation being run three times (and adding in the level difference part three times, for better or worse).

Is enemy level documented anywhere? The guides I'm aware of with enemy stats don't list it.

In response to your questions/comments:

1. Yes, that is in fact how it works.  Interestingly, physical Defense is actually scaled inversely in this game versus how it was in EB. (e.g. It's "Attack - (Defense/2)" here; whereas it was "(Attack/2) - Defense in EB") 

Virtually every Physical Ability in the original EB further modifies both Attack AND Enemy Defense in the formula when it's being run, so it actually comes out quite different than even that in most cases though.  (Hiro's Poe Sword in particular is almost hilariously unbalanced, since it's "Attack - (Defense/4), whereas Leo's Flash Blade and Jean's Haduken are both "Attack - (Defense*1.875)", for example) 

There's even more to it than that, since the damage formula for Physical Abilities is far more complex in EB than in EBC (most, but not all, abilities have a base addend along with a growth modifier based on the character's Level, in addition to factoring in both the Character's Wisdom and the Enemy's Magic Resistance on top of that), but I'll leave that for another post and/or thread at some point, since that's veering far off the immediate topic at hand at this point.

2. This is also correct.  There's not really a "for worse" case here with regard to the delta level part of the damage however; since it uses a max function, and will therefore never actually cause your damage to decrease below "(Attack*Constant) - (Enemy's Defense/2)"  (The same holds true for the Magical Damage formula as well, so a character will always do at least "Wisdom - (Enemy's Magic Endurance/2)" regardless of how many levels they might be below whoever they're fighting)  The same does not apply in reverse however; so having far less Attack/Wisdom than the enemy does Defense/Magic Endurance will substantially cut the Level based part of the formula, since the former is directly added into the latter whether the result is negative or not.

3. Sadly, to my knowledge, it is not.  Neither is even MP in fact. 

This is further compounded by the fact that different enemy states (e.g. the animation that lets you know what they're going to do during that round) are effectively treated as entirely different enemies by the game's code, and often have different stats (with only one set for each enemy even being documented in the official sources) on top of that.  The only thing an enemy with different states will absolutely always share between them is Level, Current HP, Max HP, Current MP, and Max MP. 

For example: the Sand Cyclops enemy in the Salyan Desert has the following stats when it's above ground and is going to bite a character: Attack 21, # of Attacks 1, Defense 34, Agility 10, Speed 8, Wisdom 24, Magic Endurance 8, Range 25, Luck 1; but has the following stats (differences in bold) when it's bouncing up and down underground and is going to raise high up and hammer a character with its arms: Attack 31, # of Attacks 1, Defense 34, Agility 30, Speed 8, Wisdom 24, Magic Endurance 8, Range 15, Luck 1.  It's always Level 7 and has 30 HP (minus whatever damage you've done to it) and 0 MP regardless of which of those 2 states it's in however.

This is why I said the Bestiary was going to be fairly time consuming because of how enemy data is treated by the game, since I have to manually test each attack state in order to see which stat set belongs to which even after I've found them in the game's code itself. 

Considering that even the official players guide is incredibly flat-out wrong sometimes (For example, the Dung Beetle enemy in the Salyan Desert is listed as having the following stats: HP 5, Attack 17, # of Attacks 1, Defense 20, Agility 12, Speed 18, Wisdom 6, Magic Endurance 6, Range 12, Luck 1; but in fact actually has (difference once again in bold): HP 5, Attack 17, # of Attacks 1, Defense 32, Agility 22, Speed 16, Wisdom 16, Magic Endurance 8, Range 15, Luck 1 and an unlisted Level of 6 and MP of 0 instead.  Dung Beetles have only 1 attack state in EBC, so this can't be for a different one instead either.  There is in fact an enemy in the code with the former stats, but modifying it does nothing to the Dung Beetle whatsoever, and no other extent enemy in the game is remotely weak enough to have those as its actual stats, so this is definitely an oversight ((possibly from misreading leftover code from when the game was originally being made; since Dung Beetles do in fact have 2 Attack states when they appear later on in the original EB, so the developers may have originally intended for them to have the same in the remake as well, but then changed their minds later on for some reason or other)) on their part), this requires a very extensive amount of testing in order to ensure that everything is in fact accurate.

I hope this was adequately able to answer the questions that you had.

If there are any other questions and/or requests for specific data that arise from my answers above, please feel free to ask.  If not, then I'll post again once I have new info to share on the subject.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 11:42:25 PM by Pirate King Gilder »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 02:04:10 AM »
Interesting stuff. I'm sure we'll definitely be watching to see if there are any major changes for False Althena and Zophar among others!
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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2014, 08:58:38 AM »
Hurricane staff has a smaller area of effect than the other enemy zone staves.

Anger Dice appears to be hardcoded to do 1 damage if two 1s are rolled.

It would not surprise me if level differences factored into the hit rates of status spells.  Sleep Sheep seems to work 80-90% of the time from when I used it.  Haven't extensively tested it to be anywhere near conclusive. (The other crest status spells I use once per game and have no experience with).

Questions: Is there any enemy outside the Epilogue with 30 or more MP?
Does Concussion Sword have different accuracy when used against multiple targets vs single targets?
Does this formula for the Fierce Fist seem correct?  ATT = ATT x (1 + [max HP-cur HP]/max HP)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 09:46:49 PM by DragonKnight Zero »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2014, 07:45:25 AM »
More boss stats! This covers every maingame boss except Leo, Lunn, Mauri, and Ghaleon. The first two because whatever @ solos, Mauri because plot fight, and Ghaleon because SSSC exists and everybody votes on that anyway. For everyone except Mauri we have decent notes already.


Disclaimers:

The speed of a Lunar 2 enemy depends on the action they are using on the current round. I've tried to document those. Lunar turn order is fairly non-random, but when speeds are close (within a few points?) one can leapfrog the other so that helps peg things down a bit.

I'm using Gilder's damage formulas to help me out here, although for the most part everything is checked in-game. Since I don't know enemy attack stats or multipliers or levels I'm just testing manually there, but fortunately Lunar damage isn't that random, so it's easy to peg down boss damage within a few points. Every boss appears to have a level within a very small difference of average party level, for what it’s worth.

For levels, I would aim to fight about half of the enemy formations, in theory, but in practice I end up fighting most of them since I suck at dodging fights.

Boss defences are calculated for their effect on relevant attacks compared to the average of the randoms in the most recent two dungeons. I use two instead of one to reduce the effects of any outlier enemies; it ended up with a smoother curve overall. The exception is Zophar, for whom I just used the final dungeon (which has more than enough enemies anyway).

Lunar EBC has an evasion, but (a) it only works on basic physicals, which are very weak from the PC side. I’m not testing boss evasion, as such, and I wouldn’t give it any credit if it exists. FWIW I don’t think I’ve seen any boss evade anyway. (b) Lunar EBC bosses only rarely seem to have a true “basic physical” (which requires the boss to move adjacent to the target first); the only one that clearly does (Guardian) has a massive Agility stat and I’ve never seen him miss. Short-range physicals will be noted; all other physicals don’t require the boss to move.

I'm ignoring Lucia for the most part. She's weird. Her AI is weird, her durability is weird (and enemies don't like to target her so it's difficult to figure out how weird).


Guardian

HP 550 (1.88 PCHP, notably more to some views)
Def 45
MDef 20
Agility 40 (doesn't miss)

Party stats: Level 10, HP 75.5, Speed 33/19 (Hiro/Gwyn)

Damage to him:
Hiro's Poe Sword: 57
Gwyn's Attack: 10
AVERAGE: 34
(Gwyn can also use Fractured Armour to raise subsequent physical damage to him by ~7, fades with time)

Guardian's Might: Raises Atk by ~22 and Def by ~9 (same as Power Drive + Magic Barrier?). The effect fades a little after each round. Goes first.
Attack: 45-57 short-range physical damage. See note below. Usually goes between Hiro and Gwyn, rarely after Gwyn.
Hammertime: 37 GT short-range physical damage. See note below. (goes last)

The fading effect of his Attack buff makes it hard to peg down his damage for certain. He'll use Might on the first turn, then every few turns thereafter, so his damage is usually somewhat boosted by it.

Comments: Guardian is probably one of the best first bosses ever seen in an RPG. 2HKO with good durability, very nice. He's a bit one-dimensional and slightly below average speed, though. In-game he can fuck you up if you don't watch his actions and respect his ability to outspeed Gwyn's healing, and will likely run you out of MP so you'll have to dig into your Starlight supply. Heavy.


Plantella

HP 1800 (2.78 PCHP)
Def 75 (to a 53 avg, cuts by 20%)
MDef 35 (to a 19 avg, cuts by 12%)
Takes 1.5x from Fire

Party stats: Level 16, HP 118, Speed 53/40/33 (Jean/Hiro/Ronfar) Atk 57/56/55, Def 56/58/49, MDef 35/37/35

Damage to average/her:
Poe Sword: 108/97
Ronfar's Anger Dice: 50/75
Jean's Moth Dance: 65/57
(Jean's Attack: 56/34)
AVERAGE: 74


Flytrap Crunch: 45 physical damage, inflicts Poison (goes before Hiro)
Seed Spray: 42 MT physical damage (goes before Ronfar)
Reveal Form: Enables the use of Root Spike for the rest of the battle. Most guides seem to agree this is a limit, maybe below 2/3 max HP?
Root Spike: 80 physical damage (goes before Ronfar). Can't be used initially.

Notes: Poison damages for 10% of the target's max HP at the end of each round, and can be fatal.

Comments: She wishes her solid 2HKO wasn't a limit of sorts, but she does have access to it for a long time, and she can put the pressure on with a reasonably speedy poison-inflicting attack until then.  She’s very durable, albeit physically reliant. Solid Heavy.


Magic Tester LX1
(Lemina is pilotting it. Debatably legal form for her?!?)

HP 2700 (3.96 PCHP)
Def 90 (to a 59 avg, cuts by 26%)
MDef 5 (to a 37 avg, takes 29% extra)
Takes 1.5x from all elements? (Fire and Wind, at least)

Party stats: Level 18, HP 129, Speed 55/42/36, Atk 61/60/64, Def 60, MDef 38

Damage to average/it:
Hiro's Poe Sword: 114/98
(Hiro's Boomerang: 52/102)
(Hiro's Squall: 54/105)
Ronfar's Anger Dice: 51/76
Jean's Attack: 69/38
(Jean's Moth Dance: 66/82)
AVERAGE: 78


Attack: 53 short-range physical damage (same speed as Ronfar)
Bubbles: 24 physical damage, 67% chance of Sleep (slightly slower than Jean)

After taking 1000 damage (37%), the following move replaces Attack:
Jump: 60 physical damage (same speed as Ronfar)

After taking 2000 damage (74%), the following move replaces Jump:
Sonic Wave: 65 physical damage to a line (faster than Ronfar)

Note: Sleep is ended by any damage, but said damage will be boosted by 50%.

Comments: Man that's a lot of HP, though at least you can take it down with MP-efficient spells in-game (aw yeah Boomerang). Anyway Leminabot is pretty undamaging for a Lunar 2 boss, but it has a nasty trick. It can apply sleep at high speed then do 2HKO damage, and anyone slower than its sleep move can be locked down by this. Sleep's accuracy puts a damper on this strategy but it should still overwhelm most stallers vulnerable to it. Against the status-immune, the Magic Tester's kinda sluggish with average damage, but the durability (especially physical) will take it past most who can't heal. Heavy.


Missing Link

HP 2700 (2.87 PCHP)
Def 65 (to a 62 avg, cuts by 2%)
MDef 40 (to a 25 avg, cuts by 7%)
Takes 1.5x from Fire, 0.33x from Ice

Party stats: Level 22, HP 147, Speed 63/49/40/31, Def 82, MDef 57

Damage to average/it:
Hiro's Poe Sword: 169/167
Ronfar's Attack: 53/52
Ronfar's Anger Dice: 53/80
Jean's Attack: 92/89
(Jean's Sleep Step: 85/77)
Lemina's Flame Shot: 116/163
(Lucia's Napalm Shot: ~85/78)
AVERAGE: 107


Punch: 94 physical damage. This has a chance to Poison, but it never kicked in for me and FAQs don't mention it, so probably very low. (goes after Hiro)
Avalanche: 70 MT magic damage. Probably ice, but no way to tell. (usually slower than Ronfar, but can go before him)
Ice Tornado: Invincibility for three turns! (goes before Jean) Can not act for any of those turns.
 
Comments: Ice Tornado is sooo bad. Otherwise he is mostly about a dick move of borderline 2HKO MT which is similar speed to your healer, which can be bad. (Giving Ronfar the Speed+2 dagger probably helps a lot.) Still there are various ways around that, including the regen the game gives you time to set up during Ice Tornado. In the DL, 2HKO off averagish speed and good durability, not too much to say. The first boss who isn't walled by high physical defence, too! Heavy.


Flame Fang

HP 5000 (2.73 PCHP)
Def 80 (to a 98 avg, takes 3% extra)
MDef 80 (to a 57 avg, cuts by 11%)
Takes 0.33x from Fire (Could be weak to Ice, but you can't actually test this...)

Party stats: Level 28 (Leo 35), HP 243 (Ronfar = 190), Speed 58/54/51 (Hiro/Leo/Ronfar), Def 135 (122 without Leo), MDef 56

Damage to average/it:
Hiro's Poe Sword:  238/247
Ronfar's Light Litany: 105/93
Leo's Flash Blade: 283/292
AVERAGE: 209 (172 without Leo)


Wing Spear: 160 physical damage (goes first)
Flame Bomb: 100 GT fire magic damage(goes after Hiro)
Burning Rain: 90 MT fire magic damage (goes last)

Comments: Leo juices the averages here a bit since he's overlevelled, but it doesn't matter much. Flame Fang's obviously the best boss so far DL-wise, since its best damage (which varies from quite good to extremely good depending on which HP average you use) is super-fast. No real tricks here, just hit hard with physicals or rely on 2-3HKO backup fire magic, backed up by the usual solid durability. Low Godlike.


White Fiend

HP 4500 (2.86 PCHP)
Def 100 (to a 105 avg, takes 2% extra)
MDef 80 (to a 60 avg, cuts by 7%)
Takes 1.5x from Fire, 0.33x from Ice

Party stats: Level 32 (Hiro 33), HP 217, Speed 90/71/55/42 Def 132, MDef 74

Damage to average/him:
Hiro's Poe Sword: 276/278
Ronfar's Light Litany: 117/107
Jean' Attack: 107/112
Lemina's Ice Arrows: 219/70
(Lemina's Flame Shot: 155/217)
(Lucia's Napalm Shot: ~99/89)
AVERAGE: 180


Frost Breath: 63(-100?) MT ice magic damage, changes the field to Water (goes after Hiro).
Pentagram Aura: Raises White Fiend's Magic by 45 and MDef by 42 (goes first). The game calls this an Atk/Def buff, but it lies. Also, the turn White Fiend uses this, his MDef is treated as 99 instead.
Ice Coffin: 75-115 MT ice magic (goes after Ronfar)
Crystal Stasis: 90-130 ice magic damage, chance of sleep (1/4?) (goes after Jean)

Notes:
-Sleep doesn't boost magic damage, but it is cancelled by it. Still, White Fiend can buff against a sleeping target, and a single sleep proc can cancel two turns against many opponents since the move is fast.
-Like Guardian, his damage is hard to track with the effect of his decaying Magic buff. The high-end number is roughly what the spells do the turn after using the buff. The low-end is a rough guess of what they should do unbuffed but I'm really not certain since the latter two spells are never used unbuffed. I'd guess they lose about 10 points of damage per turn...
-While using his buff, White Fiend cuts magic damage by an additional ~7%. The MDef buff cuts damage by a further ~15%, but this fades with time.
-The water field powers up all water/ice amage by 50%, and lowers Fire and Lightning damage by 10%. This makes those damage figures above much scarier, needless to say. It doesn't wear off.

Comments: Give the White Fiend a chance to power up and he has really brutal offence (~80% MT with buff and field, yikes). Lemina's dispel moves to the rescue; I didn't think to use them on my first playthrough and this guy was a monster. Fortunately for him, dispels aren't as common in the DL, so his strategy of buffing as needed then using the reasonably fast, sleep-inducing 2HKO is a good one. Unfortunately, ice resistance is more common in the DL, and he can't do anything against that. High Heavy, the elemental reliance keeps him fair in the division.


Blue Fiend

HP 5000 (2.32 PCHP)
Def 120 (average)
MDef 40 (to a 85 avg, takes 15% extra)
Takes 1.5x from Fire and Lightning, 0.33x from Ice

Party stats: Level 36, HP 243, Speed 99/77/61/46, Def 149, MDef 80

Damage to average/him:
Hiro's Poe Sword: 279/279
Ronfar's Light Litany: 126/148
Jean's Blue Dragon Palm: 343/343
(Jean's Dopple Dance: 167/167 over 3 turns)
Lemina's Ice Arrows: 238/87
(Lemina's Flame Shot: 166/282)
(Lucia's Napalm Shot: 100/122)
AVERAGE: 246


Rain Tsunami: 145 MT water magic damage, changes the field to Water (goes after Ronfar)
Silencing Wave: 90 GT water magic damage, ~50% (4/8) silence (similar speed to Lemina/Lucia)
Cyclone: 120 MT physical damage (goes after Ronfar)
Pentagram Heal: Heals for 1260, i.e. 25% of Blue Fiend's Max HP (goes after Jean)

Notes: Yes, Jean's damage just tripled while everyone else's stayed about the same. Anyway, the Water field works the same way in this fight as the previous. Silence seals off all techs both magic and physical if that means anything to you. The healing is only used once every five turns in-game if you want to hold him to that.

Comments: Rain Tsunami is a MT low 2HKO that becomes a high 2HKO after the first, which is obviously nasty. And the healing... well, if you allow it to be spammed, it walls anyone with sub-2HKO damage entirely. He also has a respectable backup physicals unlike his white kin, and silence is a nice option. His only real failings are mediocre speed on his offensive moves, and lower than normal durability for a Lunar EBC boss (although it's still pretty good). Still yeah, he can swing some flavour of Godlike depending on your take on his healing.


Borgan

HP 4200 (1.71 PCHP)
Def 180 (to a 141 avg, cuts by 5%)
MDef 120 (to a 81 avg, cuts by 10%)

PC damage: ~281. See Black Fiend, below. You gain a couple levels but enemy defences rise slightly, these effects roughly cancel. No new weapons or spells are gained between them (whereas Hiro/Jean both have weapon upgrades after Blue Fiend, and Lemina gains storebought Wisdom-boosting crests).

I didn't get precise notes since Fenrir already got 'em; my level/HP/damage taken were the same. My PC damage was a fair bit higher though, so see above. I'm probably using more offensive twinkery on Hiro/Jean/Lemina (and I don't factor in Lucia). Scale as you will, I'm just being consistent with the rest of my notes, here. :)

Anyway, here are Fenrir's notes, taken against 264 average HP:
Black Wave: 90 magical damage, hits a group. 65-70% chance of inflicting sleep (It worked 27 times out of 40)
Black Tornado: 155 magical damage. MT.
Distortion: Drains 95 MP. Slower than Lucia.
Dark Mirror: Creates a shield that absorbs 750 HP. Faster than Jean. (200 speed!)

-I believe his MP drain steals one half of the target's max MP, with some randomness of course. It took much less from Hiro than Ronfar, and I highly doubt it's physical...
-I didn't formally test his sleep, but it had some horrible hit rate for me (1/something).

Heavy regardless, as much as he is harmless in-game. 2HKO damage to either HP or MP is solid. He's Garan trading magic immunity and stronger MP busting for more damage/durability and a better status option, and I have to think that's a winning trade.


Black Fiend

HP 5000 (2.03 PCHP)
Def 450 (to a 147 avg, cuts by 42%, or 81% after resistance)
MDef 0 (to a 89 avg, takes 22% extra)
Takes 0.33x from physicals (after Def is factored in)

Party stats: Level 41, HP 279, MP 190, Speed 108/80/66/51, Def 170, MDef 87

Damage to average/her:
Hiro's Poe Sword: 330/59
(Hiro's Cross-Boomerang: 135/179)
Ronfar's Shining Litany: 122/166
(Ronfar's Attack: 93/1)
(Ronfar's Anger Dice: 60/60)
Jean's Blue Dragon Palm: 395/81
(Jean's Soul Kiss: 92/136)
Lemina's Ice Arrows: 276/321
(Lucia's Napalm Shot: 114/158)
(All regular physical attacks to 1 damage per swing to Black Fiend!)
AVERAGE: 281


Lightning Wings: ~40 MT magical MP damage (goes first)
Colour Breath: 190 GT magic damage (slightly slower than Ronfar, 62 speed?)
Black Shock: 120 MT magic damage, 10/16 paralysis (slightly slower than Ronfar, 62 speed?)
Buzzsaw: 230 magic, lowish (not well-tested) chance of Sleep, possibly Charm as well? (goes after Jean)

Notes:
-Colour Breath hits an unusually large AoE; my initial setup involved one PC in the centre and one in each corner of the battlefield, and Black Fiend was able to hit all five by targetting the centre! Don’t do what I do, kids.
-Paralysis is nasty; no actions for you (also +50% physical damage received, but that’s not relevant here). Its duration is random. It seems to always persist after the round it is applied, and then have a 25% chance to end after any subsequent round, so the target will lose 5 turns on average (6 if they're slower). Yikes.

Comments: Don't try to kill her with physicals, and be immune to paralysis (preferably sleep too) or prepare to lose. Past that, the Black Fiend has some mediocre MP-draining and some really solid/speedy non-elemental magical offence. The raw HP is the lowest of any major EBC boss (still better than all the disc 2 humans of course) but it suffices to outslug most Heavy mages unless they themselves spoil magic right back. Low Godlike.


Red Fiend

HP 11000 (4.06 PCHP)
Def 100 (to a 188 avg, takes 15% extra)
MDef 0 (to a 114 avg, takes 19% extra)
Takes 1.5x from Ice, 0.33x from Fire

Party stats: Level 45, HP 306, Speed 106/89/72/55, Def 200, MDef 94

Damage to average/her:
Hiro's Poe Sword: 347/391
Ronfar's Attack: 166/254
(Ronfar's Shining Litany: 121/178)
Jean's Blue Dragon Palm: 434/478
(Jean's Dopple Dance: 203/247 over 3 turns)
Lemina's Ice Arrows: 293/525
(Lucia's Atomic Burn: 163/220)
AVERAGE: 310


Firey Rage: 270 MT fire magic damage, changes field to fire (goes last)
Flamebreath: 190 fire magic damage to a line (goes after Ronfar)
Pentagram Aura: Raises Atk by ~60 and Mag by ~30. As usual, this fades with each turn (a notable amount of the effect is gone even after turn 1). This raises the damage of the appropriate moves by approximately the amount of the stat, before field multipliers. (goes first)
Inferno Tackle: 160 fire physical damage (goes after Jean)

Notes: I'm not completely certain Inferno Tackle is physical, especially since I can't recall any other elemental physical in Lunar (EDIT: found an enemy in the final dungeon with another). But it fits the numbers I have. As for the fire field, you should know roughly how the it works by now: this one is +50% fire damage, -10% ice and wind damage.

Comments: Every use of Firey Rage beyond the first is MT overkill; you can slow it down without fire resistance, but not really stop it from being nasty. Fire immunity would be another matter, of course, and any DL opponents with that can enjoy a free win. But if they don't have that... yikes. That's a crazy amount of damage and durability, even if the speed on the money move is awful. I imagine Inferno Tackle will do more damage over time by many views, after an initial Firey Rage to set the field up. Godlike.


Fake Althena (the DL tends to call her False Althena)

HP 10000 (3.46 PCHP)
Def 10 (to a 191 avg, takes 30% extra)
MDef 10 (to a 104 avg, takes 15% extra)

Party stats: Level 47, HP 321, Speed 109/92/72/57, Def 212, MDef 100

Damage to average/her:
Hiro’s Poe Sword: 355/445
Ronfar’s Attack: 179/360
(Ronfar’s Shining Litany: 142/187)
Jean’s Blue Dragon Palm: 473/557
(Jean’s Dopple Dance: 224/315 over 3 turns)
Lemina’s Ice Arrows: 312/359
(Lucia’s Atomic Burn: 177/224)
AVERAGE: 330


Prayer: Defence +6. Increases her physical durability by 1%! (goes after Hiro)
Staff Throw: 230 MT physical damage (goes after Ronfar)
Stinger: 90 physical damage, inflicts Deadly Poison (goes after Ronfar)
Five Orbs: 220 magic damage (goes last)
Ray: 500 lightning magic damage to a (wide) line. (goes first)

Notes: Deadly Poison takes off 20% MHP damage at the end of each round, and can be fatal. It’s blocked by the same blockers as Poison and might well be the same status with a different number attached for all I know.

Comments: Everyone knows about her by now. Ray is crazy good; it hits half the field and if she hits someone who she hit last round they’ll die even if they resist lightning. In the DL, holy crap at that speed/damage combo. Lightning resistance makes her far more reasonable but she still has two flavours of solid 2HKO backup, and nice HP. Godlike and can champ in the right field, as we’ve seen.


Zophar Form 1

HP 16000 (2.39 PCHP)
Def 300 (to a 210 avg, cuts by 10%)
MDef ~140* (to a 114 avg, cuts by 2%)

Party stats: Level 51, HP 370, **Spd 119/99/77/72/62 (Jean/Hiro/Ronfar/Leo/Lemina), Def 223, MDef 102

*Note: Zophar’s listed MDef stat at RPGClassics is 180, but this doesn’t fit the numbers from my testing at all. I had similar problems with his second form. All MDef figures for Zophar are estimates, as such, but fortunately Catastrophe is so strong that his exact MDef isn’t too important.
**Note: With the Goddess Crest obtained after defeating False Althena, it is possible to greatly power up one other crest. I’ve chosen to use this on the speed-boosting crest, which causes the person with both to gain first strike. If you want to scale this against Zophar (and Ghaleon)  in some way, feel free. This mechanic does require some experimentation within the equipment menu to learn about. Note that if you don’t use the Goddess Crest in this way you might use it to juice up some other stat by 50. (e.g. 355 more damage from Triple Sword!)

Damage to average/him:
Hiro’s Triple Sword: 1478/1343
Ronfar’s Attack: 174/84
(Ronfar’s Shining Litany: 152/139)
Jean’s Blue Dragon Palm: 482/437
(Jean’s Slam Dance: 451/406 over 3 turns, dispellable)
Lemina’s Catastrophe: 988/975
Leo’s Soul Blade: 699/654
AVERAGE: 764


Explosive Rain: 215 MT magic damage (goes last)
Ghost Aura: 215 magic damage, ~60% silence (goes last)
Crackle: 265 GT magic damage (goes after Leo)
Light Beams: 315 magic damage (similar speed to Ronfar)

Notes: When this battle ends, any dead PCs are revived to 1 HP and all statuses are removed (as is normal at the end of Lunar EBC battles), and the game proceeds immediately to the next form.

Comments: All magic and a bit sluggish, with no tricks beyond a questionable-accuracy silence. This will never threaten you in-game. Still, he hits pretty hard and can sap some resources which are better saved for the next form. This entry is probably not DL relevant.


Zophar Form 2A

There are five targets in this battle: Zophar and four hands: two “real”, closest to his body and two “fake”, closer to the PCs. In this phase, only the fake hands can act or take damage. However, Zophar’s main body and two real hands are still legal targets, and will draw attacks from Slam Dance, cause Catastrophe to unfocus, etc. The battle lasts six rounds, ending in a loss for the PCs if they are wiped out but otherwise can not end before then, even if the two near hands are destroyed. Note that the near hands act using Lucia’s spells, obviously absorbing her energy (which is also implied to be why the rest of Zophar is invincible). This phase should probably be ignored for DL purposes.

Near hand skillset (each living near hand gets one action per round)
Plasma Rain: 75 MT magic damage (goes first)
Napalm Shot: 140 magic damage (goes first)
Lightning Bomb: 100 GT magic damage (goes first)

Note: Just like Lucia’s versions, the above are not fire/lightning elemental, despite the names.


Zophar Form 2B

After the six rounds of the previous phase are up, Lucia will escape from Zophar and will fully heal the party’s HP and MP, as well as (unfortunately) removing any positive status on them. Any damage dealt to Zophar’s fake hands remains, and if they are already dead, they stay dead. This battle is won when Zophar’s main body is destroyed; all hands are optional targets. Each living part acts once per round, as you might expect.


Main body

HP 17000 (2.54 PCHP)
Def 280 (cuts by 8%)
MDef ~150 (cuts by 3%)

See form 1 for PC stats and damage. Form 2’s defences are slightly different, of course (and vary by part), but the overall damage is very much in the same area, outside the effects of type resistances and weaknesses which are listed. Average HP is 370 if you don’t want to go looking up for that.


Status Ball: 95 physical damage, even probability of Poison, Sleep, Silence, Paralyse, and Charm. Always tries to add one of the above statuses, and will only fail due to immunity. (goes first)
Asphyxiate: 190 physical damage (goes first)
Acid Orb: 135 magic damage (goes first)

The following unlock once one of Zophar’s real arms is destroyed. I think lowering him below a certain HP threshold also unlocks them, but I didn’t test this.

Dispel All: Removes all positive status, hits everyone on the field. Probably gets rid of field effects too. (goes first)
Fate Storm: 7300 (!!!) magic damage (goes last)
Gold Flash: 295 physical damage (goes last)
Meteor Swarm: 220 MT magic damage (goes last)


Real left hand

HP 6000 (0.90 PCHP)
Def 280 (cuts by 8%)
MDef ~150 (cuts by 3%, or 68% after resistance)
Takes 0.33x from all magic

Healing: Heals slightly over 20% of target’s max HP (goes after Hiro)
HP Drain: 260 magic damage, heals self and all allies by amount of damage dealt, does not unfocus (goes after Hiro)
MP Drain: ~130 MP damage, restores own and all allies’ MP by amount of damage dealt, does not unfocus; seems to be untyped? (goes after Hiro)
Blue Pillar: 360 magic damage (goes after Hiro)
Dispel: Removes positive status from one target (goes after Hiro)


Real right hand

HP 7000 (1.05 PCHP)
Def 280 (cuts by 8%, or 69% after resistance)
MDef ~150 (cuts by 3%, or takes 45% extra after weakness)
Takes 1.5x from all magic, 0.33x from all physicals

Tempest, Pyro Pillar, Ice Wall, Rock Riot, Thunder Bomb: 285 GT elemental damage (goes last)
(The elements are, respectively: wind, fire, ice, earth, lightning.)


Fake hands (x2)

HP ~7500 (1.12 PCHP). The most reliable resource I have for boss HP is silent on the exact number, but it’s close to this. Might be 8000. Remember that they can be damaged/destroyed during Form 2A, so you may not want to consider them at all.
Def 250 (cuts by 5%)
MDef ~130 (cuts by 1%)

Force Palm: 145 physical damage (goes after Hiro)


Notes:
-Charm is not undone by damage, and causes the target to use a one-hit physical against random allies. If it wears off with time I haven’t seen it. I’m not sure what it does when the target has no allies,, probably causes them to do nothing? I’ll test this later.
-Note that being under one EBC status makes you immune to all the rest. It’s actually a good thing to be hit by poison in this battle, especially since Zophar’s is the non-deadly, 10% version.

Comments: It’s Zophar; he has rightly earned a reputation as one of the nastiest final bosses in an RPG and one of the RPGDL’s top duellers. He can swing a bit with interpretation: whether you allow his arms (and which ones), whether you allow the arms’ skillsets if you don’t, the unlock point of his “limit” moves, and the interaction of Fate Storm and death immunity. But he’s always nasty: the combination of Status Ball, Blue Pillar, and Fate Storm ensures this, and if you give him 3-5 turns a round at the start of the fight he just gets better. Contrary to popular belief he even has some physical damage in there, enough to handle the likes of Wugui and Worker 8 at least. High Godlike.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 05:09:02 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2014, 03:00:31 AM »
Slight addition to DHE's notes on L2 rando-bosses. 

N.B. There's a pretty amusing recent speedrun from the Scrubathon marathon at:
http://www.twitch.tv/elmagus/b/598344374  (Planetella @1:13, Magic Tester @1:30, both epic showdowns.  Be warned that this is massively underleveled so probably not worth hyping too directly!  Flame Fang@ 3:12, too.)

There's a bizarre easter egg / bug with Guardian where if it can't move (due to being blocked by Hiro & Gwyn's corpses) but cursed 1-HP Lucia is still alive, Ruby will freak out and kill the Guardian.  (JP version, the game soft-locks because he's all short-range and the fight can never end.)  Call it a possible weird win for characters who can set up a permanent don't move effect then die, or otherwise put barriers on the battlefield?  Or just ignore due to total obscura + lack of a 1-HP Lucia & Ruby to exploit it.

Quote
I'm ignoring Lucia for the most part. She's weird. Her AI is weird, her durability is weird (and enemies don't like to target her so it's difficult to figure out how weird).

Apparently red robe Lucia (early Disc 1)'s AI only attacks if she's hit first.  Also many (/most?) enemy AIs have a strategy along the lines of "Attack the meatshield farthest to the left" which is generally where you'll put your front-line, and if you're role-playing at all that isn't likely to be where Lucia is.  And if Lucia isn't attacked in a round, and she's in front of Hiro (/ anyone else?), she may spend her round running to the back (=right), which makes getting attacked even less likely (why it's perceived that enemies don't like to attack her).  If she's already in the back, she will usually waste her turn on a useless defense buff.  On the bright side, lots of enemy boss attacks are area or line attacks, so that's where backrow mages can get beaten up (and possibly trigger a Lucia counter).  I'd treat early Lucia as maybe 1/4 a PC as a result (her damage should be comparable or a tad worse than average). 

Later Lucia (in the civilian clothes, for Missing Link) is maybe worth holding against bosses more, as she becomes a somewhat more useful healer (although also wasting turns on bad buffs on the wrong characters).  Half a PC perhaps?  She'll actually use her attack magic as not a counter, at least.

For Missing Link, he's guaranteed to use Ice Tornado on turn 5 for whatever it's worth.  Since it's strictly a bad idea for him to ever want to use it, I'd probably force him to use it then.  I suspect Avalanche is indeed ice, because Lemina resists it in the video, and I presume that was due to an equip.

Flame Fang isn't fought with Lucia, for the record.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2014, 07:53:57 PM »
Lucia's Napalm Shot vs. Plantella and Magic Tester is probably similar damage to Jean's status magic (so below average because Hiro makes everyone look bad), but it's only a counter as noted, and may not be used anyway... I don't think I saw it entirely in the Plantella fight for instance, which is why I didn't list it there at all (that and I generally assume people wouldn't use counter damage in the damage average). For all later fights where Lucia is much more likely to attack and I've listed her damage at the time for anyone who wants to try to factor it in, in some way. I personally do not, and the average damage I list doesn't, but yeah do what you will there... I try to provide all relevant numbers for a reason.

Lucia has party-worst HP average but also frequently takes lower damage than she "should". Note her reducing the damage from False Althena's Ray by ~30% in Gourry's notes (and the attack completely mocks MDef, so that's not the reason). Hopefully these two effects roughly cancel even if you factor her in. I strongly suggest ignoring her for simplicity.

Anyway all bosses up to False Althena have been added. I probably won't bother with Ghaleon since nobody ever really votes on Lunar 2 Ghaleon and Gourry's notes suffice there. I could probably estimate the exact effect of his defences if anyone reaaally wants since the party stats are pretty much unchanged from the FA fight beyond the gaining of one level, and there's no new dungeon before him to change the party's "damage to average". I will try to test Zophar more extensively, though.

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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2014, 05:16:20 PM »
All maingame bosses up.

Other random notes:

-Hiro and Leo have access to a storebought sword with +5 Speed (net of +3 for Leo). The damage hit means this isn't worth it usually, but it's certainly worth noting for Hiro if he's just trying to win with Concussion Sword.
-Shining Litany, Lucia's spells, and Catastrophe are not, in fact, non-elemental as I had thought: some enemies react specifically to the element they appear to share. e.g. there are several enemies during the Black Dragon arc which are neutral to other magic but resist these. Perhaps these spells could be called Star elemental (Lucia is the Blue Star princess + Shining Litany features stars in the animation). I dunno. Just throwing it out there. By comparison, Jean's status dances appear to be truly non-elemental: I haven't found anything which resists them or is weak to them.
-The tests in the original stat thread were against Zophar form 1, who has noticeably above average Defence (in fact, one of the highest Def stats in the game aside from Black Fiend). They should probably be re-tested against lower figures, which would mainly serve to make Ronfar's damage less completely anemic. (Lemina and Leo will lose a bit of damage as a result, Hiro and Jean should be similar.)
-I need to test what Charm does to a target with no allies.

Gilder, if you ever have any insight into how status accuracy works I'd be very curious to hear about. The ~50% figures were arrived at through very limited testing and I have no idea what stat saves against them, etc.

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2014, 08:38:32 PM »
Hmm, so Zophar is actually a limit boss for the overkill damage. Interesting (Granted, still a high Godlike with parts allowed, but definitely far worse overall). Will you be updating the PCs too?

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SnowFire

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2014, 08:48:54 PM »
Well, if you don't allow the hands, then his limit is already active ("missing an inner hand" is a trigger), so not a big deal.

It makes Zophar MILDLY weaker in the extremely, extremely rare case of
A) hands allowed/required
B) Fate Storm needed ASAP
C) Dueler who doesn't die to the overwhelming offense Zophar has even with just the 2 hands guaranteed to still be alive at the start of the 'real' fight, and can do something useful with that time to buff up to some kind of OHKO or the like without killing the hands.  And a OHKO is pretty much needed thanks to the healing + setting off the limit via too much damage.

I can think of exactly one dueler whom this would apply to: FF12 Vayne.  And that's about it.  (And even then Zophar has an argument if you see Dispel All as dispelling Vayne's invincibility palings, or you let him voluntarily start with just the main body so he can Fate Storm ASAP and win.)

EDIT: Although I suppose I can see the "all multipart bosses are merged to 1" interp might assume the hands are 'alive' but merged in...  well, I don't use that interp any more, but in random kibbitzing, I'd certainly recommend huge support credit for Zophar then, or maybe even just straight up adding their HP & defenses into the main body's.  In-game, thanks to the healing hand, it's not real likely you can safely #YOLO blitz out the main body, and most of your best offense (aka non-Catastrophe) is ST.  Anyway, throwing solo Zophar support credit HP makes dodging the limit notably harder, so shouldn't change too much, I imagine.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 09:11:56 PM by SnowFire »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2014, 10:04:47 PM »
Sounds like you can kill the fake hands in the 2nd phase and it's the real hands that are the trigger for unlocking FS?
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2014, 11:34:00 PM »
That's correct. However, as Snowfire correctly notes, you either don't allow Zophar his parts (at which point he's not a limit boss since he's already without one of his real hands so the trigger is already met) or you allow him his parts and holy shit at Asphyxiate + Blue Pillar + random L2 GT spell per round. I guess you could merge the parts and give him a lot of support credit (as noted, all your best offence in is either ST or focuses + hey that support is ridiculously damage = lots of credit) and thus still be justified at keeping it somewhat of a limit, but yeah. You have to have kinda crazy interpretations to see him as anything less than really good.

There is still plenty of room to quibble with interpretation specifics, mind, but this mostly determines which High Godlikes he loses to.


EDIT: Yeah, I'll probably update the PCs at some point, although there's not too much to update, as mentioned. Mostly just adjusting the enemy defences they face + listing things now expected of modern stat topics like speed standard deviations and exact durabilities.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 11:41:09 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete (Full)
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2014, 01:07:26 AM »
Having Zophar at a lower HP level helps (he's 1.78 PC HP to me; he gets his parts, so no support credit). I'm seems like there are a few people that have the durability to take one round of the 3 parts together, but are maybe faster and would 2HKO (so Fate Storm would get them before the 2nd hit to kill Zophar went through). Obviously we are talking an enemy with heavy duty durability since they are sustaining 2.5 PC HP damage round 1 (Orgulla maybe?).

So yeah, we are mostly just talking about the high Godlike range, but certainly makes him more interesting there to having a less clear cut strategy to OHKO literally everyone.
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