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Author Topic: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.  (Read 5049 times)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4)
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers)

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga)
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9)

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3)
Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA)

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2)
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2008, 06:21:27 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - Good news: Rubi hits Myria's worse durability and doesn't get his damage resisted! Bad news: it's not enough to fell her even with counters.

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga) - Re-Al doesn't 2HKO even before V-MAX. -After-, ahahahaha. Meanwhile, Cosmic Rave should 3HKO at worst just fine.
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - Confuse on turn two, stall until a double, Triple Kick x2, collect victoly. Being faster really saves Ayla here.

Light

Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Fuck me.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2008, 06:34:40 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4): Myria 3 isn't badass enough for this. Myria 1... more and more tempted to pass on that. Or else hold Agni against it. Edit: And Monkey reminds me that Myria-chan has ice damage. Okay.

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga): I'll let someone better at Saga handle this. Probably T260G?
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9): Er.

Middle

Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA): Death'd. Watch Jade rob his way out of this.

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2): Whatever.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6): Control still works for me.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 02:39:36 PM by Cryo »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2008, 06:41:27 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4)- Myria. If I respected Rubican'ts durability more, he'd take this. Cheering for him though.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers)- Xorn

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga)- ???
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9)- Garnet. Blocks Confuse but if not...what exactly does Ayla's Fist have endgame. Because if she loses a certain effect at endgame, it's lost and gone.

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3)- Ulf may just 2HKO her, so leaning him.
Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA)- Jean

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2)- Zoah. Zoah has lots of HP, defense, and about 7th best Strength in a cast of 40. Yukimaru is basically around average in all of those. Zoah 3HKOs at worst, Yukimaru 4HKOs and isn't doubling before then.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)- Red Wizard. At least pretty close to average damage and faster to boot (DoS)
...into the nightfall.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2008, 06:43:29 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - Myria durability.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers) - Xorn durability.

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga) - Yeah, this seems right.
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - Outspeeds, though Garnet's status -might- save her? Close match.

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3) - Kneejerk, though Ulf's damage is pretty good...
Jean (BoF2) vs. Jade Curtiss (TotA) - Jade has the storebought universal status blocker, so Jean's screwed.

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2) - Disgaea speed hype! *is shot*
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Control. Why not?

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Nitori

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2008, 06:47:24 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - Myria1 is starting to invoke waves of mehness.

Middle

Jean (BoF2) vs Jade Curtiss (TotA) - Sadly we deserve a Jean doublechamp~

Light

Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - what
<Ko-NitoriisSulpher> roll 1d100 to grade Nitori?
<Hatbot> ACTION --> "Ko-NitoriisSulpher rolls 1d100 to grade Nitori? and gets 100." [1d100=100]

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2008, 06:49:31 AM »
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - Outspeeds, though Garnet's status -might- save her? Close match.
Jean (BoF2) vs. Jade Curtiss (TotA) - Jade has the storebought universal status blocker, so Jean's screwed.
Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2) - Disgaea speed hype! *is shot*

-Ayla is only about 111% speed anyways, so if she tries to heal lock Garnet, she runs out of MP. If she just uses her physical, no pressure is put on, and Garnet is free to use her 50% ID.
-The TotA universal status blocker doesn't get ID, I believe.
-That shooting is well deserved. Yukimaru isn't evading anything in game with her endgame speed. If near 800 speed only evades 35%, sub 300 is doing nothing. Zoah and his 2% Agility have a better chance of evading come endgame (Also, better notably HP, damage, and defense)
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2008, 07:28:57 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4): Not entirely sure.

Heavy

Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9): I allow Iron Fist. If you don't, then yeah, Ayla's not winning. With? Turn 2 confuse -> Triple Kick on the eventual double for the kill.

Middle

Jean (BoF2) vs Jade Curtiss (TotA): Death. Bah, Jade shouldn't even be here.

Light

Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6): FF1o. So...

Red Wizard: 62.6% average damage and 81% pdur.
Relm: 61% average damage and 98% pdur.

Relm takes hits better and is faster, thus wins the failoff. She also has evade where RW has none. Ice 3's not an option against the Cat Hood, and status isn't likely to work in time (Hold... might, if you allow it. I don't. Even if it hits, though, it'll be the last turn before Relm kills, and it'll wear off before RW can kill Relm). The only thing which gives him a chance is Ruse, and of course you know my opinion on Ruse.

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RadLink5

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2008, 07:47:45 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - Myria? I hold Agni against her, but isn't the damage cap with Agni 999 damage? Which still makes her like 30xPCHP? Which is kinda overkill durability. Also I'm a little upset that Rubicant won since now I don't get to call Emelious "Emelious de Killer".
Edit: Gonna buy into the Myria 3 Blizzard hype, even if her durability isn't stellar and I hate her.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers) - Xorn.

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga) - Oooh, same-game duel! Not totally sure, gonna wait to see some arguments.
Edit: Persuaded to go with T260G.
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - Ayla. I think.

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3) - Menardi. Former Godlike Champion, also Myria AND Songi slayer!
Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA) - Gonna wait for confirmation on "TotA status blocker doesn't stop ID".
Edit: Going to allow full status blocker to block ID, which still doesn't clinch it for Jade, but my Jade respect is high enough that he wins.

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2) - Yukimaru. Yukimaru respect = high enough that she should be in Middle.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Relm. Control.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 07:15:36 AM by RadLink5 »

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2008, 07:49:57 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4): The Agni thing is sounding more and more convincing. That said, considering 3's elemental variety I'll bend over backwards and floss my teeth with my ass pubes if that form doesn't have ice. EDIT: Yep, Blizzard, accessible at full HP. 85x4 vs. ~225 endgame HP makes really short work of Rubicant.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers)

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga)
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9): Someone remind me of the iron fist and whatever legality issues it might have.
Middle

Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA)

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2)
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)

Quote
Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - Myria? I hold Agni against her, but isn't the damage cap with Agni 999 damage? Which still makes her like 30xPCHP? Which is kinda overkill durability. Also I'm a little upset that Rubicant won since now I don't get to call Emelious "Emelious de Killer".

However, Myria 1's damage held vs. Agni is really horrible, while Rubicant's is like 175% PCHP or something like that.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 07:56:48 AM by Monkeyfinger »

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2008, 08:03:12 AM »
Looking at the stat topic for TotA, I see that TotA doesn't -have- ID as a status, and therefore the universal status blocker doesn't necessarily block ID. However, I tend to allow boss immunities to blanket cover all status including ID, even if the game they come from doesn't have ID. I think I should extend the courtesy to universal status blockers for PCs.

James_xeno

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2008, 08:04:12 AM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4)
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers)


Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga)
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - Clear Headed, equal speed, Ark/Odin, cheap full healing, Protect.


Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3)
Jean (BoF2) vs Jade Curtiss (TotA)


Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2)
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)
Quote
Quote
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Because there are 500 antelope and three crocodiles. Not because the crocodiles are enviornmentalists.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2008, 08:17:31 AM »
Ayla doesn't actually equip weapons.  However, at high levels, her placeholder weapon upgrades.  At level... 80?  85?  it upgrades into Iron Fist, which has a 30% crit rate and more importantly a 50% chance of chaos status.  At max or so level it upgrades into Bronze Fist, which has a 10% chance to Crit for 9999 damage.
So basically, if you don't typically allow overlevelled skills, Iron Fist falls squarely into that catagory.

Otherwise, despite his other statistical advantages, I'm not convinced Zoah beats Yukimaru.  He's only got 9 (... or possibly 8?) agility, meaning Yukimaru's going to get an extra hit in there somewhere.  Mind, I don't recall CC defense being too terribly meaningful, so feel free to correct me if you think Zoah can drop her to a 4HKO.
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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2008, 08:44:07 AM »
Zoah probably 2HKOs by finishing up with an L7. He comes very close to doing it to average durability, which Yukimaru is below.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2008, 09:14:33 AM »
Zoah's Stats
HP: 114.7%
Defense: I used the Sidesteppa's enemy powerful tech because at endgame, everything else sucked. I got 1 defense point on average cutting a physical by 6, so against Sidesteppa, Zoah cut physicals to 81.85% normal power. Sidesteppa averages better damage than Yukimaru does to an average PC at endgame (It 2HKOs, she doesn't), so Zoah's at least cutting her best by 18.15%.
Speed: Zoah is indeed 8 Speed, so Yukimaru 4-3s...at least, assuming he starts at that speed. Given CC, might be more accurate for them to be average first turn since recharge only kicks in after that. Something I've been thinking about.
Damage: Zoah 2HKOs average under any average. This is obviously what really kills Yukimaru.

Yukimaru's Stats
HP: 93.4% (Giving Zoah some leeway to miss an attack or two)
Damage: 45.3%. Zoah probably cuts this about 20%, which makes it about 36%. So yeah, it 4HKOs thanks to his HP. She has Wind damage, but even with the weakness, it's not doing more.
Evasion: Not worth thinking about. If Yukimaru had twice the Speed stat, she still wouldn't get any extra evasion against endgame enemy SPD. If you want to consider this, Yukimaru also technically has the second worst hit of the cast and at least Zoah gets in more evasion in game!

Zoah 2HKOs, Yukimaru 4HKOs. Yukimaru either needs to both evade and double in the given time.

On Ayla, guess I would feel horribly iffy about an effect that not only requires powerlevelling, but only exists for a certain set period of levels. If Mitsuru doesn't get Marin Karin in a duel setting even though she would have it during non-power levelling times, I don't think a non-permanent thing that needed a lot of leveling should be considered.

Also, it seems like it falls into the classification of aftergame equip more than aftergame skill anyways, IMO, which generally aren't allowed.
...into the nightfall.

Taishyr

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2008, 12:17:23 PM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - I need to decide if I buy the Blizzard argument. It's a good match, but I don't have as much respect for Myria3 durability as I do for 1's, and 1 doesn't kill fast enough.

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga) - I... think? This is a sweet match.
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - Oh hell.

Light

Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Control.

muakaka

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2008, 02:10:34 PM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4)- Buying the Blizzard hype right now. Myria1's monstrous durability works too.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers)- Ahahahaha.

Heavy

Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9)- Clear Headed is an option for Garnet? In that case.....

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3)- I have more respect for Ulf's damage than anything about Menardi, so....
Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA)- Jean's Death is accurate! And hits Mdef! Jade's arguably doubling with Infernal Prison and Goring Hell FoF cancelling! And I'm desperate to get Jean out of the finals.

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2)- ERRRRRRRRRRRR.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)- ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

Ultradude

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2008, 04:23:07 PM »
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9): Thinking Garnet blocks Chaos, so simple match.

Go Menardi and/or Jade! Kill that frog!
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superaielman

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2008, 04:42:04 PM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4)- Oh. Myria 3. Will echo the not comfortable with Myria 1 opinions here though.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers)- Nate can't do a damn thing about Death Knell.

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga)- Sigh.
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9)

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3)- Abstain out of 'DIE MENARDI FOREVER' spite.
Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA)- Ew.

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2)- Zoah's not a bad middle in spite of the speed.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)- Ruse.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2008, 05:30:42 PM »
Ayla doesn't actually equip weapons.  However, at high levels, her placeholder weapon upgrades.  At level... 80?  85?  it upgrades into Iron Fist, which has a 30% crit rate and more importantly a 50% chance of chaos status.  At max or so level it upgrades into Bronze Fist, which has a 10% chance to Crit for 9999 damage.
So basically, if you don't typically allow overlevelled skills, Iron Fist falls squarely into that catagory.

Otherwise, despite his other statistical advantages, I'm not convinced Zoah beats Yukimaru.  He's only got 9 (... or possibly 8?) agility, meaning Yukimaru's going to get an extra hit in there somewhere.  Mind, I don't recall CC defense being too terribly meaningful, so feel free to correct me if you think Zoah can drop her to a 4HKO.

On top of what Dhyer said... Zoah is at worst killing in 3 (looks like 2). Zoah is NOT 4-3ed by average, so I'm not sure what you're talking about when it comes to his agility; it'll make him go second, but not cost him a double as you're implying.


Iron Fist is Level... 72. Can totally see not allowing it, naturally, but it definitely reads as more skill than equip to me.


Quote
Jade's arguably doubling with Infernal Prison and Goring Hell FoF cancelling!

Oh, come on. From your own post...

Quote
Jade's best average damage(FoF cancelling) = 11200
Infernal Prison + Goring Hell
Damage average(FoF cancelling)= 11528(11998 with Anise crits)

Yes, use that FoF cancelling to achieve below average damage. Below average FIRE damage hitting Jean's good HP and fire resistance, that's not even 3HKOing.

Granted, I assume he can probably 3HKO with some other FoF cancelling. Or if you use the non-FoF averages, with Meteor Swarm of course.

Jade's MDef... uh... 80 points in TotA did very little? I really doubt it's lowering Death to turn 2, but even humouring that, it's not lowering it to turn 3. Not even a chance.

So for Jade to win, you MUST seem him immuning Death. With an accessory that generally goes beyond what we allow for most casts, and doesn't even stop Death in-game.

And then you have to see him as faster than Jean; a lot of people will view TotA spellcasters as the slowest in the game. Jean just 3HKOs him first if you don't.

I mean, whatever, I get the feeling some of the Jade voters are going to vote that way regardless of logic. I'd generally hope our voters are mature enough to actually evaluate both competitors and decide who would win, though.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 07:21:18 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Laggy

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2008, 05:58:35 PM »
Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - Go away Myria.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers)

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga) - Hashed this out in chat. This is not especially close unless you are incredibly harsh on Mec equipment to the point where Re-Al 2HKOs through V-Max *and* let Red start in Alkaiser form. Re-Al's a high 2HKO normally, but... Mec defenses. (They trade turns using AlkaiserChange and V-Max, then CosmicRave cleanly outdamages Re-Al, and T260G caps speed while Alkaiser does not. And has an insurmountable durability edge. Yeah, not close. Trashcan is far too good.)
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - Blah whatever. You can argue me on this.

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3)
Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA)

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2)
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Ruse. Not feeling the Control love today.
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superaielman

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2008, 06:04:23 PM »
Durability edge isn't too huge in Alkaiser, but that's due to how humans finally catch up to mecs some at endgame. Still pretty much agree with the breakdown.
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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2008, 06:26:45 PM »
It is for p. durability. The other things, not so much, yeah, though don't forget V-Max.
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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2008, 09:20:13 PM »
Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4)- Never saw Myria as durable as most people make out. She is durable but not to the certain extent where she can outslug Rubicant with it.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers)- Clear cut I think.

Heavy

Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9)- Smashs.

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3) - Easy win for a heavy like Menardi.

Light

Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2008, 09:30:24 PM »
Iron Fist is Level... 72. Can totally see not allowing it, naturally, but it definitely reads as more skill than equip to me.

I could see it being a skill, but I think the fact that it's non-permanent based on levelling is also kind of problematic. For those that do allow it, should Mitsuru get Marin Karin in a duel then? (For those that don't know, Marin Karin is a Charm skill that Mitsuru probably has about 33%? 40% of the regular P3 game, but loses before endgame because they can only keep 8 skills).
...into the nightfall.