Succinct Mafia - Game over

[Kilgamayan]

But really.  How else, exactly, is it even possible for anyone to respond to that accusation?

You're expecting me to address an accusation that, if true, would mean:

- The setup was horribly unbalanced against town
- I went three consecutive nights without NKing anyone

How does this make any more sense than a third party possibility? At least in a third party scenario, it makes sense to actively scumhunt.

But if you want something to address, I want you to explain why you were so good at scumhunting on the first two days and then were perfectly willing to put forth and execute a plan that had a big hole if one of two people you assumed were town weren't (even after this hole was pointed out, no less).

[Carthrat]

El Cid (0):
Kilga (2): Alex, El Cideon
Delta (0):
Alex (1): Kilga

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You are in LYLO.

[Deltaflyer]

Oh no... Why do i have to make this deicision? It currently falls to me to make the deiciding vote.

Third scum, because third party can be anything.  Literally anything.

I'm not interested in even entertaining any third party theories like that.  If one exists in the game, I quit, I'm not it and I'm not looking for it.

Alex seems to be (in a weird way) Over-denying it... Hard to explain really...

But really.  How else, exactly, is it even possible for anyone to respond to that accusation?

You're expecting me to address an accusation that, if true, would mean:

- The setup was horribly unbalanced against town
- I went three consecutive nights without NKing anyone

This does not mean that you didnt do it...

Oh, hell.

Yeah, Kilga's the obvious target at this point. Barring some truly masterful wolf-in-townie's-clothing play from Alex or Delta, he's really the only option. I was going to say something about being careful about dropping votes today given what happened on days two and four, but you know what? I think I've seen enough to make up my mind about this, and I'm going to be gone for most of today, so:

##Vote: Kilga

Eh? Where are your explanations and theroies???

If Cid or Delta has that Anonyvote, we're now boned either way, so I don't need to hold this back.

#Vote: Sir Alex

I beleive that Kilga has the multi vote. However, this doesnt mean that he is scum. It is quite likely however, seeing as an anonyvote took out a scum. Possibly as part of a plot. Alex or Cid could have added their multi vote already and ended the game.

Appeal to Emotion much? You did this sort of thing once already on Day 2 of Clue Mafia, and - surprise - you weren't Town in that game, either.

You are attempting here to cast suspicion using an out-of-context example. Alex could be playing us for fools although i dont see the sense in that UNLESS there is a third party.

Im currently concerned about Kilga however i am not willing to cast the hammer just on these few quotes. Please, sway my mind someone.

(also, apologies about my absense)

(and, sorry if this is over 300 words, sorta over-compensating for my missed two game-days)

[Deltaflyer]

Woah... really sorry about that. Shoulda previewed it first 

[Ranmilia]

You're expecting me to address an accusation that, if true, would mean:

- The setup was horribly unbalanced against town
- I went three consecutive nights without NKing anyone

How does this make any more sense than a third party possibility? At least in a third party scenario, it makes sense to actively scumhunt.

But if you want something to address, I want you to explain why you were so good at scumhunting on the first two days and then were perfectly willing to put forth and execute a plan that had a big hole if one of two people you assumed were town weren't (even after this hole was pointed out, no less).

You are expecting me to address the same accusation, if your own is true.  8/2/1 is even more horribly unbalanced than 8/3.  Having a no kill third party in an 11 man game is even more unbelievable than scum pulling a 3 consecutive night no kill gambit.

Now, you're right in that one of these two scenarios has to be true.  I can't really say anything in response to that.

I was good at scumhunting on the first two days because, to put it bluntly, I'm just that good, and got a little lucky.

The plan did not have a big hole.  Despite what you pointed out, it still was the best way to achieve the goals of lynching (and vigging) the people town thought were most suspicious.  Before that plan came out, everyone wanted to lynch Rat, Tom, Sopko and you, in slightly varying orders.  The plan was the best way to accomplish that. 

The Anonyvote's appearance confirms that we are dealing with one of three possibilities - it's Kilga, it's me, or it's Cid or Delta.  Cid and Delta are grouped here because if it's either of them, they would have to be allowed to cast it without attaching their own vote.  I cannot reasonably believe this would happen.  Obviously, I know it's not me (and Kilga will be saying it isn't him).  Cid and Delta must therefore choose which outcome they believe is more likely - my scenario of Kilga being third scum, or Kilga's scenario of me being third party.  I think the answer is obvious, Cid agrees, Delta, it's up to you.

I apologize for my frustration in this game.  It is just incredibly depressing to have been good at scum hunting and then have it thrown back in my face as a reason I could be third party, and not be able to say anything against it because the setup really would allow for that to maybe be true (albeit much less likely than the simpler explanation of Kilga being scum). 

[Deltaflyer]

Im going to hold my vote until Kilga posts. then, i will vote.

[Kilgamayan]

Back from auditions, real post in a moment.

[Deltaflyer]

On a side note, auditions for what?

[Kilgamayan]

A regional handbell choir.

You are attempting here to cast suspicion using an out-of-context example. Alex could be playing us for fools although i dont see the sense in that UNLESS there is a third party.

What do you mean by "out of context"? The last time Alex flipped a nut, he was scum. Is what you mean?

Even without that outside example, the Appeal to Emotion fallacy is fairly well-known. There is no need for town to rile other people up, because it's a distraction at the very least and can sway thought processes without using logic.

[You are expecting me to address the same accusation, if your own is true.  8/2/1 is even more horribly unbalanced than 8/3.  Having a no kill third party in an 11 man game is even more unbelievable than scum pulling a 3 consecutive night no kill gambit.

Disagree. The huge difference in 8/2/1 is that not all of the anti-town roles are working together and, in fact, are better off with the other dead. As such, the game ostensibly starts at 9/2. 8/3 is 8/3 no matter how you slice it.

I was good at scumhunting on the first two days because, to put it bluntly, I'm just that good, and got a little lucky.

I'm not arguing your skill here. The point is that, as third party, you have every reason to scumhunt, because you need at least one dead (if not both, though a third party that lost one-on-one to scum would suck something fierce).

The plan did not have a big hole.  Despite what you pointed out, it still was the best way to achieve the goals of lynching (and vigging) the people town thought were most suspicious.  Before that plan came out, everyone wanted to lynch Rat, Tom, Sopko and you, in slightly varying orders.  The plan was the best way to accomplish that. 

It had a big hole in that it assumed two people were town. Either you were completely willing to give the game away if you were wrong or you knew beforehand they were town because you aren't.

I think the answer is obvious, Cid agrees, Delta, it's up to you.

Cid also clearly didn't even read what happened, since he made no mention of the third-party idea. I would understand taking it with a spadeful of salt if I brought it up, but Rat did it, and he flipped town, so it's worth some consideration.

[Kilgamayan]

Forgot one in my deletefest.

I beleive that Kilga has the multi vote. However, this doesnt mean that he is scum. It is quite likely however, seeing as an anonyvote took out a scum. Possibly as part of a plot. Alex or Cid could have added their multi vote already and ended the game.

Your conclusion isn't necessarily true, as it's possible the Anonyvote isn't usable right now for whatever reason. It could have a condition attached that hasn't been met yet.

[Deltaflyer]

Oh god... had to hit me with a brilliant argument like that.

Since his lack of contribution is... unsettling and I need a while to think CLEARLY,

##VOTE:EL CID

[Kilgamayan]

Thanks, buddy!

##Hammer Vote: El Cideon

[Laggy]

El Cid (VANILLA TOWNIE) faced down in Final Destination, No Items, Fox Only... using Mewtwo. (lynched)

The game is over!

THIRD-PARTY (Kilga) WINS!

[Laggy]

TOWN
1. Excal (Insane Cop)
3. El Cid (Vanilla)
4. Soppy (Doctor)
6. Rat (Watcher & Conditional Vigilante)
7. Delta (Vanilla)
8. Alex (Vanilla)
10. Corwin (Vanilla)
11. EvilTom (Vanilla)

SCUM
2. Ciato (Godfather)
9. Bardiche (Conditional Roleblocker)

THIRD-PARTY
5. Kilga (Bulletproof Anonyvoter Survivor)

Night 0 Actions
* Excal: Investigate Rat
* Soppy: Do nothing
* Rat: Watch Corwin
* Ciato: No legal actions
* Bardiche: Roleblock Delta

Day 1: Bardiche lynched

Night 1 Actions
* Excal: Investigate Ciato
* Soppy: Protect Ciato
* Rat: Watch Alex
* Ciato: Kill Excal

Day 2: Ciato lynched

Night 2 Actions
* Soppy: Protect Alex
* Rat: Watch El Cid

Day 3: Tom lynched

Night 3 Actions
* Soppy: Protect Alex
* Rat: Watch Alex, Kill Soppy

Day 4: Rat lynched

Day 5: El Cid lynched

---------------------------------------------

Roles-
(TOWN)
* 1 Cop (Insane)
 - Gets opposite result of normal investigation (e.g. town/godfather returns scum, scum/third-party returns town)
* 1 Doctor
 - Protects one person from nightkill; can't self-protect
* 1 Watcher & Conditional Vigilante
 - Watches one person a night; sees all people who target that person with a night action; can't target self
 - Can make 1-time nightkill attempt on any person targeting his watchee, but permanently loses watcher powers afterwards
* 5 Vanilla

(SCUM)
* 1 Godfather
  - Immune to nightkill attempts and returns town on normal investigations
* 1 Conditional Roleblocker
  - Can blocks a target's night actions as well as any special powers; can't be used on consecutive nights

(3RD PARTY)
1 Bulletproof Anonyvoter Survivor
 - Can place an additional anonymous vote on any person he is currently voting on if that vote would hammer; lynch happens immediately, final votecount will show "Anonymous" at the end; does not have to place his anonymous vote if he does not wish to
 - Bulletproof immunes nightkill attempts; functions only once, player not informed of this
 - Win condition: he survives and less than 3 other players remain.

---------------------------------------------

Dramatis Personae

(Excal)
You are a Cop.

During the night phase, you can choose any target to investigate. You will be then told whether that person's alignment is town or non-town. Your sanity is not guaranteed.

You win with the Town.

---

(Soppy)
You are a Doctor.

During the night phase, you can choose any target to protect. That target will be immune to nightkill attempts for the night, barring extraordinary circumstances. You cannot choose to protect yourself.

You win with the Town.

---

(Rat)
You are a Watcher & Conditional Vigilante.

During the night phase, you can choose any target to watch. If your watchee is then targeted by anyone else with a night action, you will see who such people are.

Optionally, you may choose to make a nightkill attempt on one of any such people targeting your watchee that night. This is a one-shot ability, and carries a consequence - you will permanently lose your Watcher powers henceforth.

You win with the Town.

---

(El Cid, Delta, Corwin, Alex, Dread Thomas)
You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have no special powers, because you're just that awesome and don't need them.

You win with the Town.

---

(Ciato)
You are scum!

You are the Godfather.

As the head honcho of the scum, you enjoy several benefits - you are immune to all nightkill attempts made on you, and return as town on normal cop investigations.

As the Godfather, you get the final word in deciding who the nightkill victim shall be.

Be warned, however, that if you are targeted by a roleblock yourself or decide to go on the nightkill, you lose all of your normal Godfather benefits for that night phase.

---

(Bardiche)
You are scum!

You are a Conditional Roleblocker.

During the night phase, you can choose to target one person and roleblock him and her - this will both block any night actions that person attempts and disable any of his or her role's powers, if applicable.

Your limitation is that you cannot use this power on consecutive nights.

If you go on the nightkill, however, you cannot use this ability on the same night phase. As your only other partner is the Godfather, you must decide whether it is worth the risk for him to go in your place so that you may use your roleblock power.

---

(Kilga)
You are third-party!

You are a Bulletproof Anonyvoter Survivor!

This role is complex, and if you need clarification contact me in IRC.

At any point during the day phase, you can place an additional anonymous vote on the person you are currently voting on. The stipulation is that you can only do this if that additional vote would hammer.

In such a case, the lynch happens immediately (whenever you notify me, preferably on IRC - if you wish to conditionally declare the anonymous vote in advance, for example, when a person approaches -1 to hammer, that's fine too) and the final votecount will show "Anonymous" at the end as the hammering vote. Other than the fact that you will be on the votetrain by association, it is in no other way visibly linkable to you.

You do not need to make use of this anonymous voting at all should you choose not to. It, however, effectively gives you an extra vote towards hammering power without blatantly tying yourself to it, which has obvious applications.

In addition to this, your bulletproof status renders you immune to all nightkill attempts made on your person.

Your win condition is as follows:
- You win, as a survivor, if you make it to the endgame. By virtue of your anonymous voting power, you will automatically win in a situation where there are only 2 other players (not including yourself) or less remaining, town or scum.

[Kilgamayan]

For the record:

##Unvote: Alex
##Vote: Cid

[Kilgamayan]

See why I was so dead set on a third party, Alex? ;\

[Luther Lansfeld]

Dammit I was hoping Delta was the third party.

[Luther Lansfeld]

well anyway

Laggy rules. I love the pictures, I DROWNED IN ICE CREAM, god what a fabulous death especially if it was like almond pistachio ice cream

role setup was hella fun, i love the conditional third party thing, it's cool beans

i feel like all three parties had a decent shot of winning, but that town had some good stuff in their favor

SCUM GAMBIT NOT KILLING THREE TIMES lol

i thought about singing a ridiculous song and then killing msyelf but I figured that that would be too whimsical for SERIOUS MAFIA

[Hunter Sopko]

Fucking speechless on the end of this one. I guess thats what you get for leaving it up to Delta. Actually, Delta coulda switched anytime before Kilga unvoted Alex, as the game shouldn't have ended until the legal vote was made. If he'd have been paying attention, he might have pulled out a squeaker.

Loved the setup. Made things interesting.

[Laggy]

He actually pulled an unvote and vote right while I was posting hammer, so I'm inclined to let it slide. But yeah.

[Kilgamayan]

Dammit I was hoping Delta was the third party.

Sorry.

Also sorry for lynching you, I was dead sure I was wrong about you and shit so many bricks when you flipped scum that I lost about fifteen pounds.

- I'd like to point out that, as stupid and WIFOMy as my Day 1 logic was (why did no one but Cid call me on this?), my four suspects did indeed include the two scum.
- The Day 2 Anonyvote was used (a) to confuse, and (b) because the population had become unbalanced and I no longer had a potential five-player day to work toward. I figured it was worth putting out there just to see how people would react, and they reacted favorably.
- For the curious, the Wolfsbane message was left because I was worried that my WIFOM logic combined with not actually voting Bardiche would get me voted off. Kinda curious that no one asked me why I did this, because I didn't really have a good explanation for continuing it after Rat proposed I looked good for being around when Bard self-hammered.
- Everything from Day 3 on was fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants (thank you for picking Tom over me, by the way). I had originally resigned myself to the task of convincing Alex away from a decision that he had already made (that Cid was town), but Rat dropped the third-party possibility right in my lap and I grabbed at it immediately, because, as unpleasant the prospect of going head-to-head with Alex was, he was likely to be very aggravated at that point, which gave me a small chance.
- The reason for unvoting and revoting on Day 4 was an effort to pin the extra vote on Alex under the guise of needing someone else to vote after him for him to use it. Never came up, though. (Sadly, neither did any chance to use Tom's Day 2 line about being nervous going from L-2 to L-1.)
- I am the luckiest son of a bitch on the face of the planet.
- I nominate Delta for the Most Appropriate Avatar in Mafia History Award.

EDIT: And Mrs. Peacock's death has been avenged.

[Bardiche]

Oh Delta, do you see now why I HATE surviving to the very end and being the one to pull the shots?

[Excal]

Look at the first post on page four, and then thank Ciato for killing me, Kilga.  I had all three non-town pegged on day 1.  If I had lived you were gonna be my night two target.     Also, did you think Rat was scum on day 2?  That was the best fit for the way you went after Ciato and Sopko.

[Kilgamayan]

I ALMOST FORGOT

Thanks to Laggy for an awesomely fun role, even though I thought I was fucked when Ciato flipped <3

Excal: I paid no attention to Rat whatsoever until his Day 3 roleclaim. >_>

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Okay, this game was a joy to read. I loved the setup, and it was incredibly interesting to see the twists Laggy pulled on it (also, when I got updated on what was going on by Excal, I snickered. This setup is so very Laggytastic).

Highlights:

- Alex being on the ball FOR ONCE. He actually tried to adapt his style a bit and it worked at catching scum. Ironically, his biggest blunder was leaving Delta alive (since Delta's lacking logic and comprehension skills led town to lose the game ultimately), which is a testament to what happens when you leave incompetent townies alive. Any player who was able to realize that the main thing was Alex vs. Kilga instead of voting for El Cid on THE VERY LAST MINUTE (what was with that vote? I -cannot- understand). On the other hand, this game also highlighted Alex's main failing: treating the game as simple arithmetics and not accounting for insanity enough. He figured the entire setup and had the game in the bag because of it, but he just got frustrated because it was different from what he expected it to be. You said the TP was broken, but I can't see how the TP would -ever- win if he wasn't BP, scum would have too easy a time gunning him down. You honestly had the superior argument, you had the better logic. Town would have won if the decision didn't hang in delta's shoulder, because the setup was honestly designed to go "once scum is down, the third-party will blow up outside of extreme incompetence clause". You had Kilga by the throat. Too bad you had to count on delta. Also, you didn't need to blow up at Kilga using the fact you hunted scum against you. It's just part of the game, and, at that point, scum would use that same card. Scum/TP have to lie through their teeth, right? And use any logic-twisting they can to win, right? You should have been able to deflect that logically and fairly easily (although, by that point, you didn't even need to sans delta. But them's the breaks). Honestly, I know you will moan about this setup being bad for you, but it took this kind of arrangement to make your playstyle not fall flat in its face. You were town MVP regardless.

- NINJA EDIT HIGHLIGHT: Alex/delta yaoi. I laughed so hard.

- Scum blowing up like it did.

- The EXCAL LOEVS ME NO ME NO ME trainwreck. That was hilarious, and, in the end, Excal loevs Rat. >_>

- The final day. Kilga drowning into "I know you are but what am I" was funny, and he would've rightfully lost with that defense if things ended up differently player-wise. >_>

EDIT: I also motion for all Mafia games to have the succinctness clause from now on. It fastens the pacing of the game soooooooooooo much, and it makes everything so much easier to follow.