Anony Sci-Fi Mafia - Game Over

[The Dude]

Well works over for me, i shall return an hour or so before hammer, i shall withhold my vote until then, currently i am thinking rincewind is most likely scum, his failure to even offer a half decent counter-argument disheartens me however.
Unless something happens overnight my vote will go onto Rincewind in the morning.

[Ned Flanders]

An interesting inconsistancy has been noted in the Android's recent observations.

I am intrigued by your claim Gandalf. Do you intend to wait for others to claim before revealing your night phase targets?

...

As a final note Gandalf's decision to reveal his role but not his actions is sensible. If others make claims first then he can potentially catch them in a lie whereas they would know not to make such claims if he had stated his observations first.

Note that this transcript involves the first line and the last line in his thoughts, and the last line being in response to my own inquiries as to the lack of information given by Gandalf.  The logic given in the final line is good logic, and it swayed me to a similar viewpoint when I read it.  However, it is also contradictory to what was written at the start.

Given the fact that the android uses that same post to argue it is beginning to feel favorably towards Gandalf, one has to wonder how much attention the android is paying to its own missives.

The majority of the post in question was composed before you shared your own thoughts on Gandalf's roleclaim. The final statement was indeed added as a direct response to your post. Thorough editing would have removed the opening statement in light of the new postscript however I had been working on the post for a long time and wished to share my thoughts before they were rendered obsolete by further new developments. It was an oversight however I consider it a minor one.

Regarding new developments Rincewind's defense is feeble at best and does not help to exonerate him in any way. If he was a member of the group designated "town" then his response should be more spirited than we have seen. I have stated my case against him previously and the time has come to commence with voting.

##VOTE: Rincewind

If my assessment of his alignment is correct then this leaves us with only one enemy to uncover. The number of individuals present at the start of the game does not allow for more than two enemies. If there were three then they would control fifty percent of the vote now and we would have already lost. Therefore it is reasonable to theorize about the identity of Rincewind's co-conspirator as his own actions have sufficiently condemned him. I also wish to state my suspicions in advance in the event that I am terminated tonight.

Jabba and Nimitz are effectively cleared by their mutual confirmation of last night's events. Their stories would not match if one of them was lying. Assuming Rincewind is scum Jabba and Nimitz cannot both be scum for reasons outlined above. Therefore they are both town. The only possible exception to this scenario is one in which the scum voluntarily did not kill last night but such a decision is sufficiently illogical for it to be discounted.

Thus the remaining suspects are John Freeman and Gandalf. I have previously stated my confidence in John Freeman. Although I am willing to consider either possibility I consider him the less suspicious of the two. New speculation on Gandalf follows.

His roleclaim was not vital in confirming the previous night's actions. Jabba and Nimitz's claims support each other. Although I previously supported Gandalf's decision to withhold the results of his night actions I am now speculating on whether he waited for everyone else to claim in order to tailor his information to suit the situation. Rincewind was already gathering criticism for his behavior and would have been a suspect anyway. In a theoretical Rincewind/Gandalf scenario Gandalf could gain credibility by helping to terminate his teammate. I am not convinced of this theory but it is a possibility.

[EvilTom]

Time passed: 37 hours
Time remaining: 11 hours


<Votecount>
Rincewind (2): Jabba, John Freeman, The Terminator
Gandalf (1): Rincewind


4 votes required for majority.

[Gandalf]

Although I previously supported Gandalf's decision to withhold the results of his night actions I am now speculating on whether he waited for everyone else to claim in order to tailor his information to suit the situation.

That's a very good theory indeed. Except that it meant I would take the risk of hoping that someone would speak up and provide an alibi for me that needed no reckoning. Had Jabba not revealed his nightly target, I would've inquired whether he'd targeted Nimitz - for that is what I suspect'd, seeing Rincewind claim vanilla, yet target Nimitz.

I find it odd Jabba presses for Rincewind to protect himself much - mostly because the only viable argument that can be provided here is, "Well, Gandalf is lying", which surprisingly has only been brought up by "Ahnold". Most you seem to question my sincerity in these actions - supposing that I could be scum attempting to sell out a scum mate. Why would I? If I were scum, I'd get a town lynched, and win the game. There's no merit in't for me to sell out a scum buddy and lose if people decide that, "Well, WIFOM here but that's what could be the case". If you haven't noticed, I could've just as well claimed tracking "Ahnold" or "John Freeman", and they'd find themselves needing to defend their alibis as well - perhaps with better zeal than Rincewind has. Who can earnestly say they'd have tossed my result to the wind had I claimed tracking anyone else?

You don't seem to realize the urgency of being right here. Being wrong means we lose, folks. I would hope that if you hammer on how you suspect me that you have it out right now, rather than dilly dally and delay, saying "Oh well, I don't really trust Gandalf but he 'confirms' Rincewind scum, let's go with this merrily because there's no way lynching a townie today would end the game for us", except that it would.

##VOTE: Rincewind

While I appreciate the trust in that I speak truth [for now], I find it alarming from those that have done so to mention my suspiciousity in passing, yet ignore the entire truth that a wrong lynch today is like to end the game... Assuming two scum, as we've been doing this entire game.

[Gandalf]

I just would like to mention Rincewind is -1 from hammer now, so think before you vote.

[Ned Flanders]

Although I previously supported Gandalf's decision to withhold the results of his night actions I am now speculating on whether he waited for everyone else to claim in order to tailor his information to suit the situation.

That's a very good theory indeed. Except that it meant I would take the risk of hoping that someone would speak up and provide an alibi for me that needed no reckoning. Had Jabba not revealed his nightly target, I would've inquired whether he'd targeted Nimitz - for that is what I suspect'd, seeing Rincewind claim vanilla, yet target Nimitz.

Usage of the word "alibi" provokes the question: was there something specific he needed an alibi to hide? Again I point out that you could have claimed to have watched vanilla townies do nothing if it was absolutely necessary to complete the roleclaim. I acknowledge that such a lie would be no more compelling than the typical vanilla townie claim however.

All this is speculation. I must note that I am not convinced of your guilt. The process of elimination compels me to analyze the matter anew.

I find it odd Jabba presses for Rincewind to protect himself much - mostly because the only viable argument that can be provided here is, "Well, Gandalf is lying", which surprisingly has only been brought up by "Ahnold". Most you seem to question my sincerity in these actions - supposing that I could be scum attempting to sell out a scum mate. Why would I? If I were scum, I'd get a town lynched, and win the game. There's no merit in't for me to sell out a scum buddy and lose if people decide that, "Well, WIFOM here but that's what could be the case". If you haven't noticed, I could've just as well claimed tracking "Ahnold" or "John Freeman", and they'd find themselves needing to defend their alibis as well - perhaps with better zeal than Rincewind has. Who can earnestly say they'd have tossed my result to the wind had I claimed tracking anyone else?

Rincewind had gathered suspicion before you completed your roleclaim with your observations. It is not inconceivable that you would have felt a need to disconnect yourself from his possible demise. Nevertheless you do make a good point: if you were faking your results it would have been more effective to use them to frame someone more widely trusted than Rincewind.

You don't seem to realize the urgency of being right here. Being wrong means we lose, folks. I would hope that if you hammer on how you suspect me that you have it out right now, rather than dilly dally and delay, saying "Oh well, I don't really trust Gandalf but he 'confirms' Rincewind scum, let's go with this merrily because there's no way lynching a townie today would end the game for us", except that it would.

This is a valid concern but my conclusion that Rincewind is scum had nothing to do with your roleclaim. Rincewind's own actions condemned him and I made my case before you completed your roleclaim. I am secure in the accuracy of my vote. There is nothing frivolous about it.

[EvilTom]

Time passed: 45 hours
Time remaining: 3 hours


<Votecount>
Rincewind (3): Jabba, John Freeman, The Terminator, Gandalf
Gandalf (1): Rincewind


4 votes required for majority.

[Mr. Miyagi]

At the risk of being accused of further me-tooism, John Freeman seconds everything the Terminator said.  If Rincewind were not zombie ghoast he would have offered more than a token "u r teh liar" at Gandalf.  Gandalf may also be headcrab zombie, but Rincewind sure isn't town.

[Nimitz]

##Vote: Rincewind

[EvilTom]

<Final Votecount>
Rincewind (4): Jabba, John Freeman, The Terminator, Gandalf, Nimitz
Gandalf (1): Rincewind


The psychic spacecat pointed a paw at the fleeing wizard, and ordered his execution. John Freeman did not have any guns because he left them at the place where his brother Gordon Freeman was, so he held onto the Rincewind boss with his hands while The Terminator and Gandalf beat him into a pulp. Rincewind's specialty may have been running away, but this time there was nowhere to run...

Rincewind, Mafia Godfather, was beaten to death.

The lights flicker and shut down.

The game is in night phase. Night actions please.

[GLaDOS]

GLaDOS' voice comes over the PA, for quite possibly the last time;

Look what's happened now. I hope you're happy. So many people are dead, and it's all because of your pride. There's less than half of you now, and it's all your fault. Well, I'm taking the cake and you're not going to get any. And also- [static]

BuT- [static]

Jabba the Hutt, Town Doctor, was killed overnight.

yOu hAvE 48 h0_rs.

[Mr. Miyagi]

its a good day to do what has to be done by me and help my town to defeat the enemys.

Nimitz is confirmed.  That leaves John Freeman with the debate between Gandalf and the Terminator.

On the flip side of the death flips Gandalf and Rincewind had a lot of back and forth talking throughout the game and Rincewind was on Gandalf's case pretty seriously.  Not to the point where john freeman would claim it totally clears him but john freeman things that scum talking to each other less is more probable than scum talking to each other more.  Rincewinds only acknowledgment of the Terminator is "townie read all the way" and that fits with john freeman's suspicion of him. 

The Terminator has been ringing very subtle alarm bells for john freeman all game.  John Freeman has mentioned them several times already.  He has gotten a pass from everyone else for using good, logical sounding townie arguments, but in fact they are only logical sounding and do not really help to find scum.  it was easy to see master wookie was stupid but that didnt mean master wookie was scum.  mace windu same deal - hard to argue with lynching someone who behaves that way (and admittedly John Freeman was down with Windu as well). 

John Freeman read the game "Half-Life 1: Anonymafia with Klingons and Yoda" and the final boss Cid won it.  John Freeman gets the same vibe here about the Terminator.  Even with all that, John Freeman is not convinced, but between the two choices (for John Freeman) John Freeman believes the Terminator is the final boss and wants to fired his bullet from teh gun really fast and the bullets went and shot the final boss in the eyes and the final boss couldnt see.

Since there is 3 to lynch there should not be danger of zombie ghoast hammer so John Freeman will again put his money where his mouth is.

##Vote: Terminator

[Ned Flanders]

With the death of Jabba Nimitz is cleared of all suspicion. The only conceivable scenario in which Nimitz is scum is one in which the enemy declined to kill on the second night and Nimitz also guessed accurately about who Jabba protected on the second night. The chances of this happening are microsopic and thus Nimitz is effectively confirmed as being "town." Therefore his observations will be of great import in identifying the final enemy.

Similar to John Freeman I must decide between two suspects: John Freeman and Gandalf. I will address John Freeman's recent arguments as several of them are specious. I will debunk them each though not in the order presented.

John Freeman read the game "Half-Life 1: Anonymafia with Klingons and Yoda" and the final boss Cid won it.  John Freeman gets the same vibe here about the Terminator.  Even with all that, John Freeman is not convinced, but between the two choices (for John Freeman) John Freeman believes the Terminator is the final boss and wants to fired his bullet from teh gun really fast and the bullets went and shot the final boss in the eyes and the final boss couldnt see.

This argument utilizes what is referred to as "metagaming." It is not a reliable technique for discerning one's true enemies. Such techniques can also be applied to undermine subject Freeman's argument as will be demonstrated in the next section of this post. This will make it clear how dubious relying metagaming is.

Moreover a "vibe" is not a qualified reason for suspicion especially under our present circumstances. As Gandalf was eager to point out yesterday so is it today: if our judgement is incorrect we will be destroyed. I do not agree with our ultimate fate being determined by a "vibe" whether the target is myself or someone else.

On the flip side of the death flips Gandalf and Rincewind had a lot of back and forth talking throughout the game and Rincewind was on Gandalf's case pretty seriously.  Not to the point where john freeman would claim it totally clears him but john freeman things that scum talking to each other less is more probable than scum talking to each other more.  Rincewinds only acknowledgment of the Terminator is "townie read all the way" and that fits with john freeman's suspicion of him.

If subject Freeman insists on metagaming then I will use such techniques to debunk the argument contained in the above quote. Two players arguing are not necessarily enemies. I refer subject Freeman to the scenario entitled "Clue Mafia" in which town was totally convinced that Carthrat was one of them due to a long-running argument between him and his partner Sir Alex. In actuality Carthrat was scum and this subterfuge effectively won his team the game.

Again I find metagaming unreliable but if you employ such strategies you must be prepared to see them used against you. Scum are not unable to fake disagreements in order to sow confusion.

I will also address the final remark of the paragraph quoted above. It is the agenda of scum to mislead and obfuscate the truth. Their words cannot be relied upon as evidence once we know their true alignment. It is suspicious that you use them to discredit me. I will elaborate on this point at the end of my post.

The Terminator has been ringing very subtle alarm bells for john freeman all game.  John Freeman has mentioned them several times already.  He has gotten a pass from everyone else for using good, logical sounding townie arguments, but in fact they are only logical sounding and do not really help to find scum.  it was easy to see master wookie was stupid but that didnt mean master wookie was scum.  mace windu same deal - hard to argue with lynching someone who behaves that way (and admittedly John Freeman was down with Windu as well).

First I will state that it is highly alarming to see the adjective "logical" used as a reason to suspect me. Logic is our greatest tool and I have consistently employed it to make the best decision possible with available information. Furthermore your statement that I have not contributed to finding scum is demonstrably incorrect. I began to suspect Rincewind on the second day as should be apparent since my statements are preserved in the record. His attack on Gandalf near the end of that day was phrased in a manner that made it appear as a calculated scum argument. I noted such publicly and at the beginning of the third day I built a case against him. All these events took place before Gandalf stated that he saw Rincewind visit Nimitz. It is inaccurate to state that I have not contributed to finding scum. Even if you believe it was Gandalf's testimony that sealed Rincewind's fate it cannot truly be stated that I made no attempt to eliminate our enemies.

My suspicion of Master Wookie and Mace Windu was in error. I have acknowledged this and maintain that these were the best cases available at the time. I am programmed to learn from past errors and consulting the voting and discussion surrounding the wookie and Mace Windu is in part what led me to suspect Rincewind. I have done so again and noticed another intriguing fact:

Subject Freeman does not refer to Rincewind until the wizard comes under suspicion. If subject Freeman believes I am suspicious because Rincewind rarely acknowledged me then it is only fitting to note that he himself almost never commented upon the one entity we now know to be scum. Not until I detailed my reasons for suspecting Rincewind and Rincewind made an obviously feeble reply did subject Freeman consider him worthy of attention. Subject Freeman's voting record throughout the game has been thin and he usually did not follow up his stated suspicions with a vote. His only vote on the first day was for Jabba. His only vote on the second day was for Mace Windu.

This analysis calls into question my previous stance on subject Freeman but I have not yet decided between him and Gandalf. The observations of Nimitz and Gandalf should prove informative in this regard.

[Gandalf]

##VOTE: Freeman

I reason as follows:

1) It is not me.
2) It cannot be Nimitz, since Rincewind targeted him and Jabba's claim checks out.
3) It is either Freeman or Terminator.
4) I tracked Freeman and saw him head over to Jabba.
5) Jabba is now dead.

So either: Freeman is a powerrole in service of town and checked out Jabba for whatever reason, lied to us about his role OR Freeman is scum.

Since I see no reason to lie at LYLO unless you are scum, I am left with only one option, and that is to follow the results of my tracking.

[Mr. Miyagi]

##Unvote: Terminator
##Vote: Gandalf

OR
I could be completely wrong and Gandalf is scum and will turn his fakeclaim to me for the lynch. 

Well then.

[Mr. Miyagi]

The laughed overed quickly though because John Freeman yelled "LOOK OUT BRO!" and pointed up to the top of the sky. The Terminator looked up and said "NOO! John Freeman run out of here fast as you can!" and John Freeman walked real fast out.

John Freeman loked back and saw town get steppd on by the next boss and he was mad and angry.

Nice job on that fakeclaim, by the way, and nice job on this setup.  A miller and godfather with no investigative roles whatsoever, in fact no town roles but doctor and nurse?  Harsh, but I guess we needed a game like this to teach people about making assumptions.

Anyway, it looks like John Freeman's paranoia got the best of him on that one.  Apologies to Terminator - everything he said about metagaming is completely right.  John Freeman really must stop letting his nerves get to him.

John Freeman played the beginning of this game laxer than he should have, mostly because it was so trainwrecky and the 48 hour no lynch deadlines on Australia schedule made it impossible to turn things around in time.  His day 1 vote was kept on because why not, Jabba seemed lurky, and John Freeman wasn't willing to vote for the clear idiot town.   John Freeman discussed day 2 earlier - Mace Windu got angry and then seemingly abandoned the game, and John Freeman literally could not move his vote away from that legit case because it would threaten a no lynch.  John Freeman will point to his questioning of whether people were willing to move in his defense.

John Freeman was too easily taken in by Gandalf's chill attitude, and later by his logical sounding roleclaim, to ever suspect him much.  Through days 2 and 3 (where applicable), Jabba, Nimitz, Rincewind and Mace Windu were all in a blur of "pretty lurky" to John Freeman.  Rincewind flew under the radar the most due to Nimitz's absence, Jabba being John Freeman's more or less random day 1 pick, and Mace Windu's anger.

[Nimitz]

This is fortuitous.  We now have but two targets from which to choose.  The question now is, which one?

As I deliberate, I would like to ask you, Gandalf, as to why you chose Freeman over the Android when you chose who to scout last night?

[Gandalf]

I chose Freeman by virtue that whoever I didn't pick would be the scum if my choice didn't stir. Why Freeman over Ahnuld? Just a matter of chance, really. I saw his name last before the hammer fell and went with it.

Freeman's current defense holds no ground to me. Last day was LYLO as well, 'twould that my efforts would've been far better spent on getting town lynched than scum lynched, if I were scum.

[Mr. Miyagi]

"Try to lynch town" yesterday?  Except that the backup case folks have pursued all game has been... Gandalf.  Looking back on day 3, he didn't really chime in with anything, just hung back and waited for the mass claim to play out.  Very clever choice of what to claim - tracker's not quite a cop, so there's a minimal risk of a counterclaim, but by hanging back that long he got to more or less fakeclaim cop and reap the benefits of "Yeah I saw Rincewind!" once Rincewind started to come under heavy fire anyway.

As far as the line of argument goes, look at the situation from scum's knowledge - scum knew at the beginning of day 3 that they attempted to NK Nimitz and it failed.  They knew, therefore, that in all likelyhood there was going to be a doc claiming and confirming Nimitz.  Note Rincewind's pre-claims post and suspicion list.  Nimitz is carefully listed as neutral, Terminator as townie (since no one but crazy John Freeman would buy his lynch), Jabba is up at the top and John Freeman is next with Gandalf lower than both (despite Rince having been on his case all game).  Plan A and Plan B, and scum only need to get one of them lynched to win.

So Plan A claims doc, Jabba's no good.  With Nimitz alive, there's no way to take it to 3 man and convince John Freeman to take out the Terminator.  John Freeman therefore has to be the winning lynch for the final boss.  Rincewind immediately comes under heavy fire.  Gandalf still has that lingering trust issue.

Does the final boss Gandalf try to make a claim he saw John Freeman and push to lynch Freeman right then, alongside the Rincewind case and lingering suspicion on himself? Risking that town will not believe him (since John Freeman, previously Gandalf's biggest ally, sure won't)?   Or does the final boss play it safe, claim to have seen Rincewind, gain trust for an accurate result, and then step on John Freeman the next day?

John Freeman is aware this logic does not clear himself in any way (in fact it can all be applied to John Freeman in reverse), but Final Boss Gandalf's "If I was scum I'd have gone for the quick win instead of gaining trust for my fakeclaim" gun does not hold any bullets and John Freeman is at a loss to why he would claim that as his defense.

MORE IMPORTANTLY

John Freeman would like to point out again Rincewind's lack of any effort at all in trying to rebut Gandalf's result.  With most of town having trust issues with Gandalf anyhow, if Gandalf was town it couldn't have hurt scum to at least try to refute him and hope a couple of people bite.  Especially, again, if John Freeman had been scum with Rincewind and could have joined on and said "I don't really trust Gandalf."  THAT would have been a relatively easy route towards a scum win, had John Freeman been scum.

EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY

Of particular note is that Gandalf used the exact same "Hey guys if I was scum I'd lynch town today and WIN!" line yesterday in an effort to spur doubt about himself and the Rincewind lynch!  This came off at the time as just LYLO nervousness, but in hindsight slash just thinking clearly, Gandalf himself is the one claiming to have caught Rincewind in a lie - why is he nervous at all and not the person most of all going "Yeah this is open and shut" (and voting Rincewind immediately upon seeing his vanilla claim, for that matter)?  Rather than Rincewind being the one trying to get people off Rincewind....  if people bite either way, and do turn on Gandalf, then Rincewind gets the credit for having been falsely accused by the lying scum. 

John Freeman unfortunately has to sleep soon and won't be available for some hours.  John Freeman... has pretty much said all he can think of to say here, though.  John Freeman apologizes for the length of this post, and for being disinclined to keep up the RP much in it.  John Freeman hopes people can understand the circumstances. 

[Gandalf]

Your WIFOM theory reeks too much of chance. I do not purport to know of scum theory, nor will I even attempt to guess at the theory you and Rincewind have employed.

Why not let the Tracker live and cast his credibility to doubt? That's the only reason I can think of why Jabba died instead of me this night, for then there'd have been none to see your actions. Perhaps Jabba's Bodyguard (which he didn't even flip, so I don't know how much to trust in that) kicked in, but the matter of the fact is that I don't know what scum are thinking, and find it a bit discomforting you are basing your entire case against me based on WIFOM logic that "scum must've had Plan A or B which was so and so and so".

Why did I not immediately vote Rincewind? Good man, what if he was a Cop that had headed over to check alignment? To fakeclaim at LYLO is stupidity indeed but I see no reason to push zealously for a lynch if there is at least some defense against Tracker, because as you should know we only see who was targeted by our target, not what they did to them. I called suspicion to most's non-contesting of my results in case I died in the night, warning town to take a good gander at who jumped on the Rincewind bandwagon immediately with no recourse.

Was that stupid of me to do? In hindsight, yes, I do agree that it wasn't the wisest course of action to take, for it would've created an impasse. But if I had placed that vote of mine ere Rincewind had continued claiming vanilla, what if he HAD indeed lied about being Vanilla, was a Town powerrole and then the two scum had quick-hammered him out? I might hope my caution will not suddenly be betwixted into scum tactics now.

If I got lynched and suppose I was scum, how would that clear Rincewind at all?

John Freeman would like to point out again Rincewind's lack of any effort at all in trying to rebut Gandalf's result.  With most of town having trust issues with Gandalf anyhow, if Gandalf was town it couldn't have hurt scum to at least try to refute him and hope a couple of people bite.  Especially, again, if John Freeman had been scum with Rincewind and could have joined on and said "I don't really trust Gandalf."  THAT would have been a relatively easy route towards a scum win, had John Freeman been scum.

To WIFOM as you do:

1) Contest Gandalf's claim rigorously and hopefully get trusted above Gandalf.
2) NOT contest Gandalf's claim, then have your ally cast it into doubt the next day and WIFOM theorize to get him lynched.

You knew full well I would produce my final day results, so I do not know why you jumped on a Terminator bandwagon. Waiting for me to come with the result that signify you as scum before casting the doubt on me?

[Mr. Miyagi]

Final boss, it is you who started the WIFOM with your claims of "If I was scum I'd have done this."  John Freeman was merely refuting them, and pointing out that should one wish to engage in such arguments at all, they actually bend the other way. 

John Freeman also finds it very o_O that you claim "We can't know what the scum are thinking, it's discomforting to base cases on that!"  Figuring out what the scum are thinking and doing is kind of the point of the game, and, yknow, what cases are based on.  And being as small a game as this is, it shouldn't be troublesome for anyone to put themselves in scum shoes and figure out what's likely and what's not.  Obviously you know what scum are thinking because you are scum, but this is really a matter for Nimitz and the Terminator, whom I hope will have the sense to put themselves in both of our shoes and think about possibilities and scum actions rather than blindly trust a role as you now seem to advocate.

John Freeman made his case on Terminator because John Freeman knows John Freeman is town and therefore knew that your result would implicate Terminator anyhow, either truthfully or lying if you were scum.  John Freeman admittedly overlooked the possibility that you would be scum and fakeclaim against John Freeman, but as John Freeman had already been thinking about Terminator all game John Freeman did not see a point in waiting to speak his thoughts.

If you had somehow gotten lynched and flipped scum after accusing Rincewind of lying, it would have very easily cleared Rincewind enough to bring in a win for him.  With John Freeman making a case on the Terminator and cases to be made back on John Freeman, who's going to vote for the guy scum failed a fakeclaim against?  Obviously bussing is a possibility, but not one anybody would buy into.




John Freeman also wishes to state that had he been scum in this game, he would have had the balls to claim real cop.    (This is a joke not a serious argument put away the WIFOM hammer and lighten up oh god)

[Gandalf]

Figuring out what the scum are thinking and doing is kind of the point of the game, and, yknow, what cases are based on.

We've had different aims then. My aim is to find fault in someone's reasoning and actions and go against that - not attempt to theorize what scum are hoping to achieve by doing this and that action. We can go in circles like that forever, and if we weren't playing I'd love to engage in such a debate with you once.

You are doing an excellent job at flailing and, had I not seen my results myself, I would've possibly bought them and vote for Gandalf. Nimitz and Ahnuld should not let your further deceit cloud their just judgement.

If Nimitz and Ahnuld place themselves in each of our shoes, I may well hope they see the deceit you are employing. You have been one for easy targets the entire game - first the Wookie, then Mace Windu, then Rincewind and now, of course, I would be the next "easy target" in line. That you attacked Terminator at the start of this game confuses me beyond measure, since you have been saying you do not trust me completely for a while now and, yet, prioritized getting the man of iron. For what? Brownie points for not getting the easiest lynch again today?

[EvilTom]

Time remaining: 23 hours

<Votecount>
Terminator (0): John Freeman
John Freeman (1): Gandalf
Gandalf (1): John Freeman

3 votes are required for majority.

[Ned Flanders]

I require further analysis to reach a conclusion but I must correct a factual error in Gandalf's last post.

If Nimitz and Ahnuld place themselves in each of our shoes, I may well hope they see the deceit you are employing. You have been one for easy targets the entire game - first the Wookie, then Mace Windu, then Rincewind and now, of course, I would be the next "easy target" in line. That you attacked Terminator at the start of this game confuses me beyond measure, since you have been saying you do not trust me completely for a while now and, yet, prioritized getting the man of iron. For what? Brownie points for not getting the easiest lynch again today?

I presume the word I have placed in bold in the above paragraph was meant to be "day." This is a minor error but one I am obligated to correct. I will now proceed to more relevant errors:

Subject Freeman did not vote for Master Wookie. He did not even comment on the wookie during the first day. Given the nature of his first post on day two it is possible that he intended to comment on Master Wookie near the end of day one but this is only speculation on my part. You are correct in that he was quick to vote for Mace Windu on day two but so were others. I also dispute your assertion that Rincewind was "the easy target" of yesterday. If you believe it was your stated observation as a tracker that led to Rincewind's lynch then you are in error. Subject Freeman voted for Rincewind before you apprised us of your tracker result. Your attempt to classify subject Freeman as a pursuer of "easy lynches" is a mischaracterization and easily refuted by consulting the vote record.

Your astonishment at subject Freeman's vote for me is misplaced. He stated his suspicion of me on many occasions previously. I also do not see what makes you claim that you are this day's "easy lynch."

I am forced to speculate: would Gandalf not feel more secure in his position if his stated roleclaim was genuinely true?

You are doing an excellent job at flailing and, had I not seen my results myself, I would've possibly bought them and vote for Gandalf.

I wish to draw attention to the word I have placed in bold font. Surely this is an error but it suggests to me that Gandalf is losing his composure especially in conjunction with the faulty logic I have outlined above.

[Ned Flanders]

I have reached a conclusion. My previous suspicions about Gandalf combined with the errors contained in his recent dialogue with subject Freeman support his termination.

I also call into question Gandalf's hypothetical scenario in which scum let him live in order to cast doubt upon his credibility. There were two roleclaims made yesterday which scum have a vital need to terminate: doctor and tracker. I refer here to the revelation made by the construct known as GLaDOS which referred to Jabba as "Doctor" instead of the "Bodyguard" claim made by Jabba. Whether Jabba lied to minimize the chances of a nightkill or was not told the full truth about his abilities anyone capable of preventing the scum's nightly termination is a high priority target even if they claim to now be powerless. It is not a surprise that he was killed during the night. Although leaving a "Tracker" alive is a risk it is at the least an equal risk to leave alive someone who can prevent a nightkill and thus extend the game for one more day. Gandalf's attempt to reason that the scum left him alive primarily in order to cast suspicion upon him is not logical. If he was in fact a member of the faction designated "town" the chances of him being killed during the night were roughly equal with Jabba's in my assessment. Leaving either one alive would have been a risk but they can only terminate one individual a night and thus lacked the capacity to eliminate both. It should not be a surprise that the scum chose to terminate Jabba. Moreover Jabba was effectively confirmed as a member of the "town" by his and Nimitz's mutually supporting roleclaims and the termination of such individuals is always a high priority for scum.

That Gandalf cannot or will not acknowledge this possibility is characteristic of his recent exchange with subject Freeman. His arguments on this day contain numerous half-truths and fabrications which more closely resemble "flailing" than the responses of his quarry.

I have noted previously my doubts about Gandalf's roleclaim. I theorize that Gandalf selected subject Freeman for his fakeclaim today because he had accrued more suspicion throughout the game than I and convincing Nimitz of his guilt would have been easier than convincing Nimitz of mine. Moreover it is plausible that he would have assumed I would join his attack against the only individual present that has voted against me.

Therefore this is my final analysis:

##VOTE: Gandalf

I now await the input of Nimitz as he is the only player other than myself whose alignment I can be totally certain of. Notify me if you perceive flaws in my logic as we cannot afford to be incorrect.