Season 46, Week 1 - Myria becomes a treehugger and two fops slapfight in Middle.

[Grefter]

On the other side though you have mechanics like BoF4 status resistance, where the base hit rate of moves is far higher than you will ever see because almost everything has an innate level of resistance and it is the vulnerability that is the abnormality.

Edit - That is, like most things in the DL, it should have a sliding scale attached to it.  Interpretting things into a rigid universal framework isn't the absolute goal.  Interpretting thigns in a flexible framework that can account for everything is the goal.

[SageAcrin]

Well, yes, a few games use fixed stats specifically for status resistance instead of a general stat for it, which gums things up, but averaging those resists is pretty easy.

Not really different from how enemies with high/low MDef resist status more or less in their games. Immunity is a good line. (Or effective immunity. I'm not sure where the line is there, but as a kneejerk I'm inclined to say that it's past the point where spamming it on a boss with everyone will take longer to apply the status than simply killing the boss with low-end attacks would. 95%+ resistance or so.

I'm still not sure effective immunity blocks 100% status, mind, but that's another issue. <_<)

[Rozalia]

Bah. "Evil Gaia" refers speciically to the joke final boss at the end of the game. I agree that Gaia Core is a Heavy, but that is distinctly not what is ranked. If we ranked "Gaia" I would agree with you, but "Evil Gaia" is only used in one fight.

You have countered my statement with a Technacality. I'll counter it with a plot fusion arguement

The final boss form of Evil Gaia is clearly a plot fusion as you see Gaia core and it's mega Gaias fuse together to form it. Thus it is blatantly an illegal form and must be thrown out, and the only form you can fall back on is its core form which is 100% legal.
As the Gaia Core is basically EG as it does all the talking and everything it also fits and so my vote is justified.

Are you referring to her ToW:RM form, because I'm pretty sure she can OHKO just fine there.

-Djinn

I don't see the OHKO. Jude has the speed and attack to take it from there.

[Ultradude]

If Gaia had been ranked, then Evil Gaia would be illegal because it is a plot fusion that is not Gaia. However, Gaia was not ranked, Evil Gaia, the fused form, was. And by calling it a plot fusion, you also call it a separate entity from Gaia; therefore, it can and should be ranked separately, and considered a different entity in regards to the DL.

So there.

[DjinnAndTonic]

If Gaia had been ranked, then Evil Gaia would be illegal because it is a plot fusion that is not Gaia. However, Gaia was not ranked, Evil Gaia, the fused form, was. And by calling it a plot fusion, you also call it a separate entity from Gaia; therefore, it can and should be ranked separately, and considered a different entity in regards to the DL.

So there.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, plot fusions are legal as long as one of their component parts isn't -ranked-? By this logic, if Saturos wasn't ranked, Menardi should be able to formchain the Fusion Dragon, for example? Or if Lenneth-Hrist-Silmeria weren't ranked, then Alicia would clearly have access to her Valkyrie form?

-Djinn

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

If Gaia had been ranked, then Evil Gaia would be illegal because it is a plot fusion that is not Gaia. However, Gaia was not ranked, Evil Gaia, the fused form, was. And by calling it a plot fusion, you also call it a separate entity from Gaia; therefore, it can and should be ranked separately, and considered a different entity in regards to the DL.

So there.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, plot fusions are legal as long as one of their component parts isn't -ranked-? By this logic, if Saturos wasn't ranked, Menardi should be able to formchain the Fusion Dragon, for example? Or if Lenneth-Hrist-Silmeria weren't ranked, then Alicia would clearly have access to her Valkyrie form?

-Djinn

Plot fusions have nothing to do with other ranked duellers. Being plot fusions is usually a strike against rankability for anyone. How much of one and how that works, depends heavily on the plot.

[Talaysen]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, plot fusions are legal as long as one of their component parts isn't -ranked-? By this logic, if Saturos wasn't ranked, Menardi should be able to formchain the Fusion Dragon, for example? Or if Lenneth-Hrist-Silmeria weren't ranked, then Alicia would clearly have access to her Valkyrie form?

The point is that if a "plot fusion" is ranked under the plot fusion's name, then the plot fusion is legal for that dueller.  Taking your examples, if we ranked "Fusion Dragon", then Fusion Dragon form would be legal for Fusion Dragon.  If we ranked "Valkyrie", Valkyrie form would be legal for Valkyrie.

The point is that the plot fusion is a different entity, and if THAT entity is ranked, then it is obviously legal for THAT entity.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Snow, Tal: Ah. Makes sense. That's what I had pretty much assumed, but Ultradude's wording left me a little confused. I don't really remember G1's endgame plot well enough to comment on Evil Gaia/Gaia, though. Anyone care to remind me why Evil Gaia was ranked over Gaia if Gaia was both a non-fusion AND a better dueller? Not that I'm complaining, I find Evil Gaia to be all kinds of amusing.

-Djinn

[Dark Holy Elf]

Gaia's a generic monster final boss, not the type of thing we usually ranked. EVIL GAIA we just ranked as a joke.

[Clear Tranquil]

ToPo.  Arche's ID.  It has an awesome hit rate.  You wouldn't know it in game because fucking everything and its dog is immune to ID

Same as SO3. Enemies have both an SA - status abnormality resistance and an ID check. SA varies from as low as 16 SA up to 100 (most bosses) ID on the other hand is annoyingly set to 98 resist for most enemies so characters that have ID moves in game can't make the same us of them as they can in the DL. Seems like SO3 is similar to BoF4's status thing as well. Hurrah someone that knows what I'm talking about~

Middle

Kain Highwind (FF4) vs. MOMO (XS) FFIV The After Kain HYPE anybody!? Nope? Fine then ;p


Light

Chisato Madison (SO2) vs. Rufus Shinra (FF7) Ahaha, ahahaha ... Poor Rufus >.>

**

Going back a bit - Jude can't 2HKO? In general I mean not for his match this round which I can't vote on anyway >.>

[Tide]

Jude can't 2HKO? In general I mean not for his match this round which I can't vote on anyway >.>

Normally, an Attack + follow Assault Buster from Rapid attack 2HKOs cleanly against average. IIRC, the one-two combo deals 20000 damage together. Kill point again for WA4 under new averages is roughly 19000.

This of course runs into problems because Assault Buster is finnicky. Having high amounts of defense, speed or evasion skews the damage it deals. So Jude's 2HKOing abilities have limitations and isn't guaranteed. He's usually fast enough after the first attack though to still 3-2. So typically, he will maybe get one extra hit in. A non boosted Assault Buster deals roughly average damage against average. But again, his capabilities will vary wildly dependent on what his opponent's defensive stats look like.

In this case (I can't vote on it either), it doesn't matter either way. If you go by stat topic numbers in both ToP and WA4, Jude kills EVEN without using Assault Buster (he's just shy of the kill point, but Arche's less durable than average). I was assuming for arguments that Arche does fly and thus nukes Assault Buster's hit rate per slash, which in this case, he 3HKOs.