PlotPower Season 5 Week 1 + S4 Results

[SnowFire]

Miang can use her world-of-XG-specific plot powers against Terra for the same reason that all the other world-specific plot powers work in general, that we have to assume that some kind of crazy mash of settings is going on to have a plot power tourney at all.  Do Suikoden runes have any power outside the world of Suikoden?  Answer: Who cares, because in-game you never can leave the Suikoden universe.  Every single female in Xenogears is susceptible to Miang; I'm going to give her some plot power credit for that.

[Niu]

Which is also false. The Federation still existed outside the XG planet in the time of XG episodes 5, and they aren't susceptible to Miang at all, because gasp, the people of federation aren't created by Kadamony. Miang's power is not world specific, it is race specific.

And on topic whether Suikoden Runes can be used outside their universe? Technically speaking, they can't, unless they are True Runes.

[Excal]

And that last line of yours is more proof for Snow's argument, Niu.  ie. it works against anyone you're ever going to meet in game, hence everyone you ever care about.  Hence, it should work in a plot power competition.  And in XG, you never even hear about this federation and there is no proof that anything outside of that one planet still exists, hence only the descendants of that one crash matter for the purposes of what Miang can do.

[Niu]

Proof? Perfect Works.

Plus, Snow's argument is "it works against everyone in the game"
But the assumption here would be it has to be "same" game.
Would comparing things outside of their game of origin, we must evaluate whether they have the power to effect other being outside their game of origin, especially the power used is unique to a certain game. Which is why I vote Miang the win through raw destructive power, not some quirky mechanic that only works on her planet.

Which is why I find the runes to be a very good example. True Runes are known to destroyed million worlds in the past, with the only exception of Eternal City, by enforcing their rules onto those world, thus a good proof that their power are not confined to a single universe. But their children runes lack the same power to do the same and only functions under the protocol established by the true runes.

[Excal]

Perfect Works never came out over here.  There's an argument for accepting some things that aren't shown in game, but the fact is, to expect that in a competition such as this that we accept everything that's written even when it's in sources that cannot be legitimatly gained in a format we can read is a little much.  Hence, simplification.  Go with a baseline that everyone who is capable of voting on a source will be familiar with, which is the game itself.

And this, by and large, also means that Perfect Works, the Suikogaidens, and any other outside work meant to explain the physics, isn't really worth all that much here, as only a bare few of us can really have a chance to see and know these things.

Also, Snow's argument is that there are several plot powers that only work because they're present in the world the character is from.  Take a look at Jessica.  She only has power because of Althena's blessing.  Take her somewhere without Althena, and she's just a scrubby fighter, whereas Hix is still a guy with a sharp bit of metal that he knows how to use.  Take Gallows away from Filgaia and the power of the Mediums, what is he then?  Just some slacker is all.

The fact is, stating that a power is only usable on one world doesn't work here, and that all powers have to be considered as if everyone was in a place where their powers worked as advertised, regardless of whether or not they'd normally need home field advantage to use them.

[SnowFire]

Niu: I'm not questioning that Miang's powers only work on human females descended from Kadamony, which would only be on the XG planet, and wouldn't work on other humans (if there are any left).  This is a dispute of "reasonable assumptions for the DL," not plot.

See, if Xenogears was a planet-trotting game where this mattered, then yes, I'd agree with you.  However, it's not.  As a result, I'm going to assume that Xenogears characters are by default assumed to be fighting in the Xenogears setting (which would be the planet they crashed on), Suikoden characters will be fighting in the Suikoden setting (where their normal runes will do a damn thing, if we assume that the True Rune's power can't be reached outside the Suikoden world), etc.  So Miang vs. Suiko-3 Sarah would take place simultaneously in the Suikoden setting and the Xenogears setting; if Sarah has any human blood (I actually don't know on that count), she's screwed, but she can at least use her runes rather than have them be useless.  Otherwise there are way too many headaches about "Wait, does this power even work on people not native to the game?"

There's actually a very relevant example here: Star Ocean 3 (or technically all the Star Oceans, by retcon).  I'm going to assume that all SO3 characters are in the Eternal Sphere when fighting, because otherwise everyone not Fayt/Maria/Sophia is literally nonexistent in a duel setting.  (I suppose you could assume that Fayt/Maria/Sophia powered them up beforehand so that they could even exist and do damage, but same thing, really.) 

(Now, the exception for this would be for characters like Belial, Empyrea, the bad guys of Kingdom Hearts from what little I know, and so on who have the active power to rip you out of your setting and put you in theirs.  In that case have a blast sealing any powers that seem setting-specific.)

[Niu]

I see your point. But doesn't that destroyed the point of plot battle? Skipping all the plot analysis for the sake of simplicity? Then why bother with plot battles in the first place?

And I would say that So chars are automatically nonexistent in a plot fight is what draws the biggest distinction from a plot battle than our usual DL matches, as in a plot battle, the plot explanation should take precedence. I am sorry, a plot battle that puts plot evidence as secondary is... just not a plot battle to me.

[Mad Fnorder]

Godlike:
Kratos Aurion (ToS) vs. Alouette (LP:T): Even in Plot, Kratos is fail.
Miang (XG) vs. Terra Branford (FF6) - - I agree with Niu.
Ridley (RS) vs. Nergal (FE7) -
Lloyd (LoD) vs. Althena/Luna (Lunar1)

Heavy:
Zack Fair (CCFF7) vs. Cliff Fittir (SO3)
Alis Landale (PS1) vs. Selan (Lufia2)
Misha Arsellec Lune (AT) vs. Shane Carradine (WA3)
Ashton Anchors (SO2) vs. Vahn (LoL)

Middle:
Bart Fatima (XG) vs. Flik (Suikos)
Shu (AtL2) vs. Canopus (OB)
Mia (GS) vs. Relm Arrowny (FF6): I give Relm more credit for power, but not for reliability.
Miranda (G3) vs. Nanami (S2)

Light:
Jessica D'Alkirk (Lunar1) vs. Hix (Suikos)
Razzly (CC) vs. Deneb (OB): Pumpkin Sign: Pie Smash
Taloon Torneko (DW4) vs. Jelanda (VP1): Is Vs. Taloon.
Cid (FF6) vs. Puffy (Grandia)

Man, my voting freaking blows.

[Cmdr_King]

On the topic of Miang's body-stealing powers, there's two problems here.  Firstly, the fact that this is enabled because all women in Xenogears have blah blah genetic factors due to being born from Kadmony is explicitly layed out in-game, not limited to PW or anything.  It's a pretty intuitive limitation, she can only body-theft her decendants.  Although I'm surprised that PW says that there are other, non-XG planet humans still alive in that universe, I always figured that humanity had since died off elsewhere for whatever reason.  Anyways, aside.

Problem two is that she has no control over WHERE she body-jumps.  Yes, she happens to jump into two incredibly convenient bodies in the story (Fei's mom and Elly), but it's just that, random convenience.  Even supposing Terra were susceptable to this power, the odds of it coming up are terrible.
(The alternative to it being random chance here basically involves the fact that Elly and Miang are technically parts of the same being, so Elly being available affected probablility, but that's still not Miang controlling her body jump.)

Besides which, Miang's pretty badass without silly random body stealing.