Author Topic: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!  (Read 8434 times)

superaielman

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Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« on: October 04, 2008, 05:37:52 AM »
RULES
Choose TWO games/Forgotten Warriors. You must choose two, and can not choose more than two. This is to provide some balance- some people will yes most ideas, some will no most ideas. Picking out the best helps window down what to rank.

RULES REGARDING (single) FORGOTTEN WARRIORS: They do not take up a slot, if they're from a ranked game. They still need to beat out the third place game for nominations to get to the next stage.


Don't:

Suggest a game for ranking for humor/trolling/for the hell of it. Please put some effort into your suggestions and pick the best games for the DL overall. Save the comic failure for NR.


What makes a good rankable game?

* games that are well-played within our group, and hence will get good vote numbers
* games which are well-played outside of our group, and hence will attract newbies
* games with well-developed or memorable characters
* games with interesting duellers battle-wise

Feel free to ask any questions about the process here.

And now on to the suggestions that have been made through the voting page. You don't have to stick to this list, but most people do read through it to refresh their memory of unranked games. Also gives you an idea about fan demand.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 05:06:43 AM by superaielman »
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superaielman

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic *NOT OPEN UNTIL MONDAY*
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2008, 05:04:15 AM »
Persona 3
Writers: 9/20
Suggestors: 13
Art: Easy to find
Sales: 100k+
Vote potential: Below average to above average.
NR/Internal: Average
Notes: Despite the weak writers numbers P3 has very solid internal playership. Tons of suggestions+Surprisingly successful release, it also has benefited some from the release of FES in the states. Having a headachey at best final boss and a unrankable main is a downer.


Mana Khemia
Writers: 6/20
Suggestors: 5
Art: Easy to find
Sales: 65k~?
Vote potential: Below average
NR/Interal: Below average
Notes: Better this time. Has gotten a lot of suggestions and the internal is improved, but.. needs more writers in a bad way. PSP release should only help the game's rankability factor, and it looks like a neat cast on paper.

Wild ARMs 5
Writers: 13/20
Suggestors: 5
Art: Easy to find
Sales: 65k~?
Vote potential: Average
NR/Internal: Slightly below average (Has varied some, depending on the format)
Notes: The writers are good and it has demand, though the internal is surprisingly not all that great for a WA game. It's not going to be the success that WA4 was for a lot of reasons, though a WA3 style success is nothing to be ashamed about in the DL.

Final Fantasy 3 Forgotten Warrior: Cloud of Darkness
Writers: 11/20
Suggestors: 4
Art: Easy to find
Sales: 300k+
Vote potential: Above average
NR/Internal: Above average
Notes: Generics don't seem to have any support, though CoD got several nods. CoD's main issue before was lack of art and that's been solved. There isn't any other problems- FF3DS was a huge success in every regard and the NES crowd helps to cover the older voters.

Xenosaga 3
Writers: 11/20
Suggestors: 2
Art: Easy to find
Sales: 100k?
Vote potential: Below average
NR/internal: Below average
Notes: Internal is still respectable and art's easy to get. XS3's other struggles- it still hasn't noticably improved from it's early rush in 06- still apply. The NR numbers are also worrying, especially since XS2 has not been especially strong in the DL.

Tales of Vesperia
Writers: Under 5/20
Suggestors: 2
Art: Unknown
Sales: Assumed high
Vote potential: Very low
NR/internal: Very low
Notes: New+360 RPG. It'll have the sales which is nice, and TotA was certainly a solid enough addition to the site. On the other hand, it's a 360 RPG. The voter and group penetration isn't very high at all, and it sounds like the game may have issues with translation.  It's worth watching, though I wouldn't expect to see this one on site for a while.

Final Fantasy 12
Writers: 7/20
Suggestors: 2
Art: Easy to find
Sales: 300k+
Vote potential: Above average
NR/internal: Low
Notes: FF12's been the perfect storm of how to make a major mainstream game not work in the DL. Main cast not really being rankable+very weak reviews within the DL group+extremely long. It should've been ranked already but in spite of some pushing from the voters it has not shown rankable level strength in any one aspect aside from sales and the FF name. (Aside: Writer numbers fluxuate a little as people come and go from active writing.)

Megaman X Command Mission
Writers: 11/20
Suggestors: 2
Art: Easy to find
Sales: 125k
Vote potential: Below average
NR/internal: Below average
Notes: MMXCM reminds me a lot of Legaia: Duel Saga. It's an older title that is fairly liked but not beloved with a gameplay focus. The duellers are all on the interesting side on the PC end and it has a couple of notable bosses to rank. It's also widely available and has the MM name to help pull it up some. On the other hand, it's very much a niche title and is now four years old. The sales aren't much even if availability's solid and there are very valid concerns related to it's very unimpressive external numbers and it's age- can an older PS2 title cut it so late into the console's lifespan?

Kingdom Hearts FW: Sora
Art: Easy to find
Sales: 500k+
Vote potential: Average to Above average
NR/internal: Average
Notes: Kingdom Hearts is good enough by now on all strictly site related fronts. The sales have always been there, the internal's okay enough now, and while it's got a bad crossing with a lot of our voters it shouldn't struggle much on site. The other issues there (RPG/rankable enough, possibly Disney issues) definitely are what is holding it back.

Also suggested:

Super Mario RPG bosses
Ateiler Iris 2
Eternal Sonata
Digimon World (Series)
Shin Megumi Tensei: Nocturne
Barkley: Shut up and Jam
Mass Effect
Luminous Arc
Riveria
Star Wars: Knights of the old republic
Legend of the mystical Ninja
Infinite Undiscovery
Disgaea 3
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
Sword of Mana Bosses
Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
La Pucelle Tactics
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 04:02:03 PM by superaielman »
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superaielman

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic *NOT OPEN UNTIL MONDAY*
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2008, 05:06:27 AM »
My picks: Persona 3 and Cloud of Darkness

P3's writers are weak but the rest is there. Can't see holding off on it. FF3 generics are not going to work and no other FF3 bosses deserve to make the cut, so DoC makes sense as a solo rank.

WA5 I still have reservations about (I want to see that one in NR again), MK isn't ready, XS3 is a bad joke, and ToV is a long while away. MMXCM I rambled on about enough there.
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VySaika

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic *NOT OPEN UNTIL MONDAY*
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2008, 05:11:24 AM »
My picks: Persona 3 and Cloud of Darkness

P3's writers are weak but the rest is there. Can't see holding off on it. FF3 generics are not going to work and no other FF3 bosses deserve to make the cut, so DoC makes sense as a solo rank.

WA5 I still have reservations about (I want to see that one in NR again), MK isn't ready, XS3 is a bad joke, and ToV is a long while away. MMXCM I rambled on about enough there.

Pretty much this. P3 and Cloud of Darkness are solid ranking ideas I think, while most of everything else we've got on the table now either isn't ready or just don't look like they'll ever be good ideas.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2008, 05:32:37 AM »
Cloud of Darkness FW.  I don't really have anything against Generics...but FF3 is a case with a massive vote split based on original vs. remake form its kind of unforgivable (well, some translate about even in both games, like Ninja!)  The game deserves to be in the DL in some manner, and there are some rankable bosses, might as well go with the Final Boss who is probably the most well known boss of this game for a number of reasons.

Persona 3.  Much as...I hate myself for doing this, objectively, it probably is the best idea on the list.

I do want to rank MMXCM, but it is gaining players rather slowly, so thinking I should give it a little more time; some people did state they were willing to play it should there be a push to ranking it so...*shrugs*  Either way, can't justify it over these two options, so I won't try!
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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2008, 05:39:10 AM »
RULES REGARDING (single) FORGOTTEN WARRIORS: They do not take up a slot, if they're from a ranked game. They still need to beat out the third place game for nominations to get to the next stage.

I'm a little unclear about this. Does this mean I can suggest, say, two new games and one FW from an already ranked game? Or can I suggest several FWs (as long as they're all from already ranked games, that is) along with my two game suggestions?

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2008, 05:40:26 AM »
First off, supporting Persona 3. While I recoil from that writer figure, it's too good in other ways. The main and the final can die, as can anyone FES-specific (Metis, I believe).

Wild Arms 5... 13/20 writers is hard to ignore, and internal tends to be my most important category for determining rankability. It gets my second nod.

Cloud of Darkness I'd be fine with too; no real flaws with this idea.

MMXCM is a notable #4; its writers are actually better than I thought and still tending upwards. But clearly behind the other three, I'm not supporting it this time. Possibly next time, though (along with whatever doesn't make the cut from the above three? Yeah).

Still open to arguments, but getting a vote out there now.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 04:39:04 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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hinode

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2008, 05:51:18 AM »
Quote
Tales of Vesperia
Writers: Under 5/20
Suggestors: 2
Art: Unknown
Sales: Assumed high
Vote potential: Very low
NR/internal: Very low
Notes: New+360 RPG. It'll have the sales which is nice, and TotA was certainly a solid enough addition to the site. On the other hand, it's a 360 RPG. The voter and group penetration isn't very high at all, and it sounds like the game may have issues with translation.  It's worth watching, though I wouldn't expect to see this one on site for a while.

This is one of the very few cases where we have gotten sales numbers lately:

"Some hardcore RPG fans are no doubt interested in Namco-Bandai's Tales of Vesperia, the Xbox 360 exclusive entry in the long-running Tales series. According to data from the NPD Group, Tales of Vesperia ranked #58 for the month with 33,000 units sold during the 4 days after its 26 August launch."

http://www.edge-online.com/features/august-sales-in-depth?page=0%2C2

EDIT:
Cloud of Darkness (FW)
Dr. Nusukan (FW)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 06:38:07 AM by hinode »

superaielman

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2008, 05:51:41 AM »
RULES REGARDING (single) FORGOTTEN WARRIORS: They do not take up a slot, if they're from a ranked game. They still need to beat out the third place game for nominations to get to the next stage.

I'm a little unclear about this. Does this mean I can suggest, say, two new games and one FW from an already ranked game? Or can I suggest several FWs (as long as they're all from already ranked games, that is) along with my two game suggestions?

Two suggestions only. But if we say put up Idura from Lufia 2 and the topic breaks down as:

P3: 30
Iruda: 23
FM4: 22

All three would move on. A single character from an already ranked game does not take up a spot in the second round. A single character from an already ranked game does take a spot in the second stage.

*Nods to hinode* I'd expect ToV to top out at around 150k sold when it's all said and done. Plenty good enough but doesn't matter here.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2008, 08:23:07 AM »
P3 and WA 5, although I could be tempted to go for FW Varin if WA 5 isn't really gaining any strength this time.
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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 01:05:21 PM »
P3 seems like the strongest new game, but not having a rankable main bugs me.

I'd like to see MK make it someday, has neat duellers.

FWs for the win. My votes go to Cloud of Darkness and hinode's Dr. Nusakan suggestion. (Also want to see Lute and Riki, even as joke Lights, so that all the SaGa mains are ranked...)

EDIT: Forgot how much I liked Naesala.

FW: Naesala (FE9)
FW: Cloud of Darkness (FF3)


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« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 05:17:18 AM by DjinnAndTonic »

alexjones50

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2008, 04:25:06 PM »

romancing saga 3

forgotten warriors:
dark lord (arc the land collection)- really thought he should be included since he is considered a very challenging final boss with his insane durability.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 06:10:09 PM by alexjones50 »

superaielman

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2008, 05:20:42 PM »
You can only nominate two things, that includes single FWs from ranked games.
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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2008, 05:30:40 PM »
Going with P3 and WA5. Both seem to be good from opposite ends of the spectrum. P3 from demand and WA5 from internal readiness.

alanna82

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2008, 05:44:11 PM »
Persona 3
Forgotten warrior: Sora (just rank him already >_>)

OblivionKnight

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2008, 09:30:28 PM »
Wild ARMs 5 and NAESALA

P3 is pretty much guaranteed to get it.  Naesala needs in.  Wild ARMs 5 is the second best choice for new games.  Seems reasonable.  This also gets us 3 choices next round, which is good.

Persona 3 is a huge release and has lots of support and growth potential.  I mean, also awesome characters too.  A good rank as well.
Ranks: Minato (probably not getting in), Yukari, Junpei, Akihiko, Mitsuru, Fuuka (not getting in!), Aigis, Koromaru, Ken, Shinjiro, Jin, Takaya, Chidori, Ryoji/Nyx Avatar (may not get in).  Metis can be a FW from Fes at some point.

Wild ARMs 5...bleh.  I think it's the best of the other options overall.  Not a huge interest in it of itself, but...still a good choice.  Wish the PCs were more interesting. 
Ranks: Dean, Rebecca, Avril, Greg, Carol, Chuck, Nightburn, Fereydoon, Persephone, Elvis, Kartikeya, Volsung. 

XS3 and Mana Khemia are next best bets.  Both have similar issues (playership and draw building, though...XS3 could be dead in the water ;_;).

Cloud of Darkness...no.  Maybe with the rest of the game, if it got in, but...there's split here (NES version is...poor Heavy at best, closer to a Middle?  DS version is Godlike), generally plotless, and really boring (except in the DS version...split, again).  I mean, it has the advantage of good votes and exposure, but...I mean, to me it's really boring!  NES version only here.  But then again, as I said, good draw and exposure, so...

NAESALA.  YOU STUPID BASTARDS CHOOSE HIM.  RANK NAESALA.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 10:54:46 AM by OblivionKnight »
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Nitori

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2008, 10:47:14 PM »
Persona 3
Naesala. OK does so much and is crazy so he deserves this~
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 07:08:28 PM by Nitori »
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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2008, 11:41:37 PM »
Thanks for the clarification, Super. My suggestions:

Persona 3
FW: Naesala (FE9)

SnowFire

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2008, 02:12:27 AM »
Cloud of Darkness and FF12.  And by FF12 I mean FF12 guests, since they're about the only thing rankable (Larsa & Reddas, as the others have...  issues.).

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2008, 03:59:47 AM »
Cloud of Darkness

Naesala

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2008, 05:44:16 AM »
Persona 3, Cloud of Darkness.

P3 is obvious, and people seeing it in the DL might help with P4 getting ranked more quickly as well. CoD is also pretty obvious.

Want to wait a bit on WA5/XS3/MMXCM(Saw this today and was tempted to pick it up because of the ranking hype. Maybe next time). Also not opposed to Sora but not foolish enough to actually suggest him.

Other than the obvious stuff, people should play MK and Sonic RPG.

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2008, 09:58:05 AM »
Going with P3 and WA5. Both seem to be good from opposite ends of the spectrum. P3 from demand and WA5 from internal readiness.

Ditto. MK would be awesome but isn't ready and FFXII triggers the gag reflex. I have no real opinion on whatever's left.

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2008, 12:22:47 PM »
P3 and WA5 look like the best right now.

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2008, 04:14:41 PM »
As I always do, random thoughts on games:

Persona 3
Best option here, and I really don't think that's arguable.  Just...the growth is great, the characters are interesting, the fighting ability is pretty cool, it doesn't have any major issues, etc.  SMT can be successful in the DL!  It also has awesome joke characters like Charmles if people are interested in that.  Really, can't see a better game right now.  The writing is a little lower than people want, but the people who like the game and are writers are pretty prolific.  It will grow - especially once I force it on NEB and Meeple!

Mana Khemia
Arguably 3rd/4th best option here.  Which is scary, as it was bad last time.  Anyway, the votership is slowly rising, and the game is very interesting combat and character-wise.  It's also getting lots of support internally rising, and seems to have interest outside.  Definitely would be a good addition to the DL.  Maybe 1-2 sessions from now.  I'm actually excited enough to find time to play this thing now >_>

Wild ARMs 5
Poor, poor WA5.  It was thought to be the next coming of WA4, and now it's...well, overall decent.  Vote draw could be better, but it's not bad.  It's the 2nd best option this time, after P3 (of the new games).  PCs are somewhat boring, except Chuck/Carol, and the bosses are somewhat one-dimensional, but it's a decent overall.  Definitely should be ranked now, and if not now, then next time.  The game's probably peaked overall, so I can't see a point in waiting here.

Final Fantasy 3 Forgotten Warrior: Cloud of Darkness
I mentioned this already, but...well, I'm not hugely interested in the game in general for the reasons I stated above.  That said, I'd not be adverse to bosses from the game with the PCs.  However, that's the major issue with this choice - otherwise, vote draw is solid, demand is decent, and the remake certainly helps all this.  The biggest issue I see here is pretty major votesplit potential (well...maybe not that bad).  Also some personal opinions regarding the ranking of bosses without PCs, a single boss from a game, a boss with vote split, etc.  Not a bad idea really, though I personally am not a huge fan of it.  Cloud of Darkness for Middle, and such.

Xenosaga 3
Eh...this game might have hit its peak like WA5.  I'd like to see more NR.  I really do want to see it ranked - has cool fighters, and we get ALLEN.  Also, end of a series that is 67% ranked already.  Think it might be on par with XS2 when it was initially ranked if ranked now.  People really seem to hate the game, though hopefully that's not the primary reason they're against it >_>  Vote draw and support issues I can see, but blinding hate...hey, I still supported Alicia being ranked with VP2!

Tales of Vesperia
Will be good once built up.  Well, the fighting system might give people headaches, but...eh.  We've had this before.  No major comments yet - need to fully finish it myself.  Rita for Godlike, and all. 

Final Fantasy 12
I...sometime in the future, I think.  Maybe.  Honestly, I don't know with this game.  I feel it should be represented in some way, but...bleh.  No thoughts here.

Megaman X Command Mission
This is very similar to LoL2.  I...it might be doable.  Another NR test?  Honestly, I think it might be as ready as it's ever going to be now.  Would love to see it in, but...well, the only issue is some vote draw, which doesn't bother me too much (> 40%), but in general isn't amazing.



Super Mario RPG bosses
Don't think this will ever fly much.  Smithy I would support definitely, and probably more, but I don't think the general interest is there.

Ateiler Iris 2
Mana Khemia has a better chance.

Eternal Sonata
Probably not.  Sadly.  No Chopin for Godlike hype.

Digimon World (Series)
Never.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
Probably not, sadly.

Barkley: Shut up and Jam
YES.  I might seriously hype this next ranking session.  PLAY THIS GAME, ASSHOLES.

Kingdom Hearts FW: Sora
Eh...he's good enough to be ranked.  I mean, I'm not against this at all, so...he should have been ranked already if ever, but...maybe next time when there's a free space?

Mass Effect
;_;

Luminous Arc
Not likely.

Riveria
Better chance than some of the other stuff here.  PSP+GBA helps.  I'll evaluate it later.

Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood
...this would kick ass.  I need to look this up.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Lord Ephraim

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Re: Season 46 rankings: Preliminary topic: Now open!
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2008, 06:21:11 PM »
Persona 3 and WA5

Both fill the raging DL WA bonerisms and fan draw of Persona 3 with an bonus version still keeping the game fresh on the market.

Fuck Cloud of Darkness, don't like the idea of ranking just one Godlike boss with hardly anything except she hits pretty hard and draws decently well.  Too much Necron-like plot relevence and because she's in that Dissidea game that probably won't reach the US until 2010 (just my exaggeration that a freaking PSP game needs 2-3 years of development >_>) doesn't mean that she will have a fanbase.  I would definally support ranking her if FF3 has some sort of full rank, like OK said.

Mana Khemia is better than both of those games.  Barkley is better than Mana Khemia. Play them.