Author Topic: Incompetent Mafia - GAME OVER (Game Topic)  (Read 47299 times)

Captain K.

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #150 on: October 12, 2008, 11:01:56 AM »
Day 2 Votecount.  6 to lynch.

Carthrat:  Deltaflyer2k8 (1)
Deltaflyer2k8:  Sopko, Sir Alex, AndrewRogue (3)
AndrewRogue:  Lady Door, EvilTom (1)
Sir Alex:  Carthrat, Smodge13, Lady Door (3)

Captain K.

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #151 on: October 12, 2008, 11:10:30 AM »
Since it looks like you're going to need more discussion time, I'm extending the deadline.  New deadline is Tuesday the 14th, 6:00 am Eastern/5:00 Central, which I believe is 11:00 GMT.  We'll try that for a change of pace.

Feel free to lynch somebody today though.  Really.

Xanth

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« Reply #152 on: October 12, 2008, 11:27:02 AM »
BARDICHE

(bold=vote/unvote used in post)

Posts by Bardiche: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Posts about Bardiche (day 1 only, italics = very tangentially or otherwise pointlessly): Xanth 1 | Delta 1 | Delta 2 | Sopko 1 | Xanth 2 | Remo 1 | Xanth 3 | Smodge 1 | Rat 1 | Lady Door 1 | Remo 2 | Xanth 4 | Remo 3 | Alex 1 | Lady Door 2 | Remo 4 | Strago 1 | Xanth 5 | Rat 2


From his posts: well, hindsight is always 20/20, but let's not dwell on what made him look scummy when there are opinions to rip into. Ignoring the first two as joke posts (he only mentions Strago's posts in addition to his vote on Remo), the third post is also insubstantial (other than 'grrr, how dare you say that my joke vote isn't serious and well placed' at me), although it's worth noting that this is true source of Delta's post restriction theory (I thought that I was the first to suggest it, but now I can't find it at all in my posts, so maybe I didn't post it in the end. In any case, if I did suggest it at some point, it's after this point). His fourth post brings us the meat, giving us:

-a minor offensive against Lady Door and/or defence of Tom
-rationale for sticking with Remo
-a short prod at Smodge in echoing Tom, but more sympathy than an actual attack in the end, other than to question his attack on Delta
-an even shorter prod at Delta

Fifth post is a tiny correction. Sixth post is a rather more substantial badgering of Smodge into voting for Remo or voting elsewhere. Final post is initially positive of Delta, before setting out his final suspicions as Remo > Smodge, Delta > Rat, Excal, Tom.

Right, well, how to cross this mire of WIFOM. It's hard to pick much out of the lesser implications because of it, so let's look at his actual intent. To me it's clear that he was very keen on getting Remo lynched. I first read this very poorly for Delta as the other lynch candidate that he could have been trying to cover, but then realised that even as late as his sixth post that Delta had only actually taken two votes. I thus conclude that Delta does look suspicious from the seventh post but not any more so from the fourth nor sixth, and that he was just trying to push the Remo train as quickly forward as possible. I'm willing to believe that it might have been to smokescreen something else, but without a thorough analysis of everything the only two possibilities that stick out are to pre-emptively draw people away from Delta, or to keep people away from his own poor excuses at the start (which worked).

The net result of all of this is that Smodge comes out looking better to me, and Delta worse. Lady Door also comes out positive to me, as I'm inclined to believe that Bardiche's attack was a potential set up for something bigger later if possible.


---

Right, while I'm not actually busy this afternoon as I stated in the other thread (I didn't take into account that my Sunday commitment doesn't actually start up again until a fortnight from today), I have some work to do and shopping to get before 4pm. Given the snail's pace I'm writing this at, I'm going to get these tasks out of the way before continuing here. Hopefully I shouldn't miss out on much in that time anyway.

Next episode preview: Xanth looks at what other people had been saying about Bardiche in the time before he flipped as Big Bad. But be careful, Xanth, for lurking in the shadows is the deadly 'Not Mentioning Him At All', which may well prove to be the biggest foe of all! Fight on, brave warrior.

Ranmilia

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #153 on: October 12, 2008, 11:35:08 AM »
So hey okay here's something besides Delta.  I can't help but notice that Xanth is continuing to make walls and not vote on anyone.  And is saying "Hey Delta is bad but Smodge is good."

Could I interest you in dropping a vote out here?

Xanth

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« Reply #154 on: October 12, 2008, 12:07:01 PM »
I really haven't my mind up on Delta yet, which I figured was the crux of the day, nor have I had the time to look at the other people who might draw my vote otherwise (yourself included, but there are a whole bunch of people I need to review). If it'll satisfy your concerns until I get through the stuff that interests me, then you can have ##VOTE: Andrew on the grounds of his lurking combined with minimal content and opinions offered. I actually feel worse about Delta, but I refuse to take him to -2 this early in the day when I haven't even looked at his posts again (I disagree with whoever it was (Smodge?) who said he looks better today than day 1 - it's his actions today that have brought him to the forefront to me), and Strago only just edges Andrew out due to the claim that he's made some decent posts, which I can't remember and need to check for myself, as otherwise he's the worse lurker.

I don't like being pushed to voting because I don't have my own arguments posed behind it yet (because what, as it stands it's practically just 'me too'-ing Tom), and I'm in no way convinced that Andrew is where I want my vote to be here and now when there are so many unknowns left for me to answer. I will unvote Andrew if he draws more votes, even if I then decide at the end of my checks that he's the one I want to vote for. But no matter, if it'll put the concern of delaying to rest, then I'll bend from my methods for now.

Ranmilia

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #155 on: October 12, 2008, 12:26:16 PM »
That is way too many words to say "I haven't really been reading the topic."  Game's not that long... and I don't really see why you'd pick Andrew to vote on now, or shy from taking Delta to -2. 

So yeah Xanth is scum too.  This kinda fits into what Delta's been saying about him.  I'd put about 60% on Andrew being with them too but that's a little less sure.

Smodge13

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #156 on: October 12, 2008, 12:32:05 PM »

Smodge[/b]
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2128.msg36271#msg36271 - verry worrying. Barely a couple of words on each person, seems to really hate me, and then votes Delta. What? "Tom can wait until day 2." - I really don't like the way he sets it up as "lynch delta now, then Tom on day 2".
His recent posts have been a bit all over the place, I'm not sure what to make of them but he's certainly stopped trailing me. "Delta i am once again thinking is just town playing badly" - then why would you want him lynched if you think he's town? There's a lot of inconsistencies here with smodge.
I still stand by all of my previous points, but those were based on day 1 arguments so there's better things out there right now which need following up which are a lot more important. Such as these day 2 problems:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2128.msg36505#msg36505 - Smodge, why are you dredging up my post about you from page 2 of the game, and completely ignoring my more substantial arguments against you which I made at the end of page 3? You had plenty of time to answer those points from my first post earlier, and now you're doing so? What about my post at http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2128.msg36180#msg36180 here; when are you going to address those points - tomorrow? What's with the massive delay?
You can't just dismiss all these points against you as pure OMGUS, why aren't you answering them?

Sorry i minorly addressed it a few posts before you initially asked and thought it was substantial.

Day 1 there were 2 trains, neither of which i liked
Couldn't spot anything wrong with those Voting on either of the trains at the time.
Reverted to LaL, picked you out of the group because i knew you were online.

Now you then blow up and vote me claiming i was wasting time, i had commented i disliked both the trains the discussion was going after and i was suggesting an alternative, which was the lurkers.
I had stated my reasoning for disliking the trains and so offered an alternative
The reason i said my vote would stay on you was because of the false accusation of me not commenting on things combined with your OMGus when called out for being a possible lurker (possibly a bit of OMGus from me as well), it looked really scummy to me, until i remembered its what you do whenever someone votes for you, you blow up.
Hence i then decided to move onto the next lurker.

You claim my votes were wishy-washy, i disliked the trains and so i picked on something i thought was more likely to reveal scum.
(If this isn't what you were asking for please be more specific because i can't see it if you are asking for an explanation on something else).

Smodge: You were also pretty vague and acted very suspicious in Day 1. Your thoughts on the flip?

The flip shows exactly why i dislike day 1 random bandwagoning for no reason, Bardiche manipulated it so it deliberately landed on a townie.
I disliked it because it is an easy thing to do, especially because alot of people consider it as being good in the towns thoughts, it gives you townie credit + you get a perfectly good excuse to pressure someone for no reason.
Remo's defence was poor and he put little effort into it until towards the end of day 1.

Bardiche being scum was a surprise, day 1 i didn't take much notice of him, the main way it has influenced me is my thoughts on the remo train were correct hence i'm more inclined to continue that line of reasoning into believing delta is just bad town.

Excal being Town - nothing at all really the lurker had nothing to offer

In other games Bard and Delta seem a bit closer than just 2 players, maybe freinds IRL or something i don't know, but in general they seem to chat back and forward even in the game as shown early day 1.
In other games Bard has said he doesn't like to knock Delta out of the game (even when he's scum) so his lack of an attack on Delta is unsurprising, on top of this if both Delta and Bardiche were scum, i would find it more likely that they would take a more active role in helping each other out (or at least Bard helping Delta) and then Delta would be making less newbie mistakes (this is of course only speculation)

Rat followed quite quickly onto the train on Remo, 2 scum helping along this 1 tactic from the beginning is a possibility and is another reason i am more inclined to take Remo's words about Rat seriously and consider him a danger.

Alot of this post was speculation and possibilities, normally i wouldn't even mention half of it if it wasn't asked for.

The annoying thing is so many posts hinge on Delta's alignment, Alex's Defence of Delta = scum, those attacking me over it are also possibly scum, seems to lack alot of bit, Town Alex normally offers more evidence and reasoning than this and often seems to be alot more aggressive with his posts/votes, yet another reason why i'm more inclined to believe the possibility of a scum Alex.

Andrew needs to post more content period, however he has plenty of pressure votes.
Also almost 24 hours and nothing from Strago?
Whats happening?, i know we're not supposed to speculate on scum with post restrictions but is it maybe possible theres a clear timeframe before he can post? considering this is the 2nd day he has done it.
So AndRew needs more Content
Strago needs to comment a bit but for the moment Andrew is worse.

Smodge13

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #157 on: October 12, 2008, 12:35:17 PM »
And my spelling/grammer/use of capitals were poor even for me in that last post.

Ranmilia

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #158 on: October 12, 2008, 12:53:55 PM »
Wait what
I'm scummy and you're voting me because I'm aggressively tunnel visioning Delta...
and I'm scummy because I'm not being aggressive enough?

Okay, pop Smodge on the scum list (figuratively, he was already there) and let's stir the pot a bit and see what we can come up with.

In the meantime, uh, would you like me to go and dissect all of the myriad things Delta has said?  That doesn't usually work and tends to just get people mad at me.  I already rehashed the main points on him in a nice alphabetized bulleted list for people, so.

Figuring 4-6 scum right now.  Delta, Xanth, Smodge for three of them almost certainly. 
Door... probably town given behavior and interactions with Bard and the above. 
Sopko... has been riding hard on Delta with me all game.   Doesn't mean he's not a token Delta-attacking scum but I like him for now. 
Andrew... is more or less a lurking wagoning version of Sopko and thereby looks somewhat worse, but hey at least he's voting Delta.
Rat... has been unusually quiet although I don't see anything hard on him except Remo's death post.  I'm kinda iffy on him.  I don't think Delta's promoting his lynch on the message says much about his alignment.  Remo COULD be right, of course.  Or not.  All he has done though is attack me so I think he's probably best bet for scum #4 right now.
Tom... is surprisingly coherent and not nearly as bad as Smodge or Xanth but I don't like the giant walls and the standing back and going for Andrew.  I may be seeing a scum push against Andrew here, or it may just be my imagination.

Strago... where the heck is he again?  This game seems to be a magnet for people up and vanishing for days.  That said I'm not sure it makes him scummy given what I think the scum are doing.  Can't say anything on him until (unless?) he comes back and posts more.

EvilTom

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #159 on: October 12, 2008, 01:31:46 PM »
Dear smodge:
Quote
Now you then blow up and vote me
Quote
combined with your OMGus when called out for being a possible lurker (possibly a bit of OMGus from me as well), it looked really scummy to me, until i remembered its what you do whenever someone votes for you, you blow up.
I did not 'blow up'.
Neither of my posts at http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2128.msg36118#msg36118 nor http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2128.msg36180#msg36180 were explosive.
They were throught out and reasoned arguments against you.

The fact that you've constantly dismissed them as 'OMGUS' and emotional attacks is telling, as it shows you wanted to avoid being questioned on them.
Painting my posts as OMGUS is blatant misrepresentation.
I voted for you with reasons. Ignoring those reasons and calling them OMGUS is just scummy.
I'm still not happy with your explanation that "I voted for you because your OMGUS was scummy, then three minutes later I realised you always do it so I unvoted you" - that doesn't make any good sense.

Quote
In other games Bard has said he doesn't like to knock Delta out of the game (even when he's scum) so his lack of an attack on Delta is unsurprising, on top of this if both Delta and Bardiche were scum, i would find it more likely that they would take a more active role in helping each other out (or at least Bard helping Delta) and then Delta would be making less newbie mistakes (this is of course only speculation)
That's not speculation, that's dangerous WIFOM.
It's even easier to say that "Bard didn't want Delta knocked out because they're scumbuddies".
You're taking the long way around and trying to clear Delta; I agree with Alex when he places Smodge + Delta together.

Quote
The annoying thing is so many posts hinge on Delta's alignment, Alex's Defence of Delta = scum, those attacking me over it are also possibly scum, seems to lack alot of bit,
I'm very confused.
Alex is scummy for defending Delta? That must be some kind of mistake.
And anyone attacking you must be scum? That's a real OMGUS right there if I ever saw one.
'seems to lack alot of bit' - huh...

Quote
Town Alex normally offers more evidence and reasoning than this and often seems to be alot more aggressive with his posts/votes, yet another reason why i'm more inclined to believe the possibility of a scum Alex.
I don't agree with that metagame at all. Alex was town in AnonySciFi, and he rarely offered any evidence at all. You can't use that kind of metagaming as evidence, it's misleading and has no real basis.

Quote
Andrew needs to post more content period
He just posted. Sure it might not have been a wall of text, but he certainly had content. I'm wondering if you're really paying attention. Or perhaps you didn't consider it substantial enough?
If he's continuing to make posts you don't find substantial, then you should be finding that scummy and voteworthy.

Quote
Strago needs to comment a bit but for the moment Andrew is worse.
As time goes on and Strago hasn't posted, that's a very disagreeable statement. Andrew has posted a couple of times today, Strago has not; how is Strago better?

In fact Andrew has got better by posting, and you've got worse by posting, the irony!

##Unvote Andrew, ##Vote: smodge
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

Deltaflyer

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #160 on: October 12, 2008, 02:38:07 PM »
Alex, you really arent convincing as town, not when you are saying basicaly that everyone who is suspicious of you is scum.
Wait what

I'm scummy and you're voting me because I'm aggressively tunnel visioning Delta...
and I'm scummy because I'm not being aggressive enough?

Okay, pop Smodge on the scum list (figuratively, he was already there) and let's stir the pot a bit and see what we can come up with.

Smodge says you are suspicious, o you add him to scum list. You are blindly accusing both him and Xanth, along with myself.

##UNVOTE: Rat

##VOTE: Alex.
Do I really look like I have a clue?

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #161 on: October 12, 2008, 02:51:16 PM »
Hmm...

Alex is being a bit too free with his "x/y/z" is probably scum for my liking. Especially for Day 2. (WARNING! METAGAMING AHEAD!) He tends to do this more often when he's scum. (END METAGAMING). I can't really find fault with his reasoning, but the act always puts me off somewhat. If Delta ends up being town, which I highly doubt, I would think Alex (and me, admittedly) would be highly suspect.

For his comments on Tom, yes, Tom is being coherent, but not entirely helpful. The points are valid but Tom helps not with the vote, which is just as important. Chasing his tail around could be a sign of scumitude. He did the same thing, keeping votes on people with no one else, yesterday as well. This is highly suspect. I almost want to switch my vote to who he's voting for to see what happens.

Rat needs to talk more. A lot more. The longer he is silent, the more damning it is for him, especially if Delta turns out to be scum.

Also seconding the call for Strago. Needs to post more.

Andy and Door I'm fine with right now. Andy needs to be smacked for not posting as much as I know he's capable of, and being outperformed by his better half, but still reading town on both for now.

smodge and Xanth... I'm on the fence about. smodge I think voted Delta for the right reasons yesterday, and I he's not being entirely unreasonable today, sans the Bard/Delta metagaming. I was suspicious of him yesterday due to association with Remo, but in hindsight I was probably jumping the gun. He still needs to be watched though. The only thing I don't get is the Alex vote, which seems to come out of nowhere. Not enough to turn on him entirely.

Xanth... an X factor to me, I guess. I can't draw a bead on him, which in retrospect makes him look slightly worse to me. Better targets abound though.

Ranmilia

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #162 on: October 12, 2008, 03:12:46 PM »
Sopko:  The reason I'm being this free with accusations is due to this particular game.  Rather than dealing with a minority of scum, we're dealing with a majority or near one.  Looking for connections is therefore more important than usual. 

And also people said I was tunnelvisioning.  Which I maintain is the way to go, can we please lynch Delta, but okay if people want me to talk about others I will.

The lack of lynching is kinda getting to me, I ran out of things to say day 1 really with only minor additions.  From here on out I'll be basically repeating myself. 

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #163 on: October 12, 2008, 03:19:10 PM »
Strago: POST MORE! You currently have about a post a page. Seriously, you need to wake up and start posting. We can't say anything about you until you actually post. Start contributing now please.

Yeah, can't disagree with that. Yesterday was real busy for me. Sorry haven't been around, though. Almost done catching up now.

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #164 on: October 12, 2008, 03:34:11 PM »
So the main choice right now seems to be between lynching Alex and lynching Delta. I don't particularly see Alex's aggressiveness as incriminating, it makes sense to me. The ways he goes about doing it, though... hrm. He seems to be pretty haphazardly slapping together a scum team guess at this point based almost entirely on who disagrees with him, and there's no way that looks any good. My main beef with Alex, though, goes way back to one of his earliest posts, where he calls out Delta for acting cocky like he'd drawn a power role. Now I get that the defense of this post is Alex's conclusion that he meant a scum power role... but why? Delta's done a few things now that look potentially scummy, but at that point I don't see what he had done to make Alex finger him for a role in that way. You don't do that! You don't do the scum's work for them, ja? Try as I might, I can't get away from that move of his. So I guess I know where I come down on today's main issue.

##VOTE: Alex

And hey, I didn't up and vanish for days. Just, uh... day. -_-

Now it is time for breakfast and orange juice so I can stop this pounding in my head. I'll be around today.

Ranmilia

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #165 on: October 12, 2008, 03:51:09 PM »
So Strago shows up out of nowhere, calls the day as having only two trains when (albeit much to my dismay) a bunch of people have just started voting elsewhere, and puts a man to -1?  Ouch.

And uh

If you've paid attention to recent games at all, Delta's complained nonstop and emo self hammered because he kept drawing vanilla townie.  Noticing his enthusiasm and concluding that he isn't vanilla town isn't exactly hard to do.  It was a throwaway comment in the first place, and even if you are determined to hold it against me, you'd be calling me stupid, not scummy, for as scum I'd have no reason to do that, ja?

Carthrat

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #166 on: October 12, 2008, 03:57:30 PM »
Smodge: Delta has improved? It is his play today that is making me consider him as a viable target. If anything, I believe he's gotten worse, particularly with how he seems to be running through posts and just looking for lines that appear bad, without giving thought to their meaning. (The 'stop talking about meeeeeeee!' thing is pretty.. whiny, too.) I also don't like how he goes "I have stuff on Rat, but I'm gonna wait before letting you in on it." It's terribly cagey.

I am pretty annoyed at the way you seem to be referring to me, too. I get a strong sense that you're trying to paint me as scummy without being seen to really push it hard (the constant references to Remo's thing matter here; 'We should take it as a sign' followed by.. not really doing so.) I also dislike references to 'we'll get plenty of intel depending on Delta's lynch!' as if it's a justification in itself (hint, it's not!)

<->

Ngh. Alex's latest posts have improved his standing; the arguments smodge has levelled against him suck (mainly those from smodge and delta) and he's right on calling out Xanth. I'm not so comfortable with his lynch anymore, although I do believe his case on Delta is overstated. ##Unvote for the time being.

Brief thoughts at the moment are that Smodge is looking worse with each post he makes, particularly due to the inconsistencies within his own posts and a strong aversion to making up his mind on... anything. Dread Thomas has indeed been ramming down his throat all game but I don't see it as particularly unjustified. ##Vote: Smodge; the other thing I've got on him is that he's pulled out the commentator style of play, particularly with his first post of the day (lots of talk, no conclusions, no extrapolations, sigh.)

Still very leery of early attacks on Delta, though I believe there is more merit to Scumdelta based on his later activities. Blah blah lurkers, I actually like Andy though because he's concise and doesn't waste a lot of time putting out what he's got, and I do get an impression that he's read the game. I don't get that impression from Strago (mainly because his only content is based on day 1; I agree with it, but a lot more has happened since.)
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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #167 on: October 12, 2008, 04:01:42 PM »
So Strago shows up out of nowhere, calls the day as having only two trains when (albeit much to my dismay) a bunch of people have just started voting elsewhere, and puts a man to -1?  Ouch.

Bunch of people? I just see Tom's vote, Al. Other than that, Rat's vote is after yours. This isn't a very good defense for you and it's full of holes. I expect better from you. Not to mention it's really suspicious.

Hell, the subsequent post by Rat makes it more suspicious, almost like a concerted effort.

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #168 on: October 12, 2008, 04:02:36 PM »
Bunch of people? I just see Tom's vote, Al. Other than that, Rat's vote is after yours. This isn't a very good defense for you and it's full of holes. I expect better from you. Not to mention it's really suspicious.

Clarifying. Rat's vote was after Alex's post.

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #169 on: October 12, 2008, 04:08:06 PM »
Alex, Rat, do you now realise how much we think you are scum?

It is not just coincidence that Alex gets put at -1 to hammer straight after he practically OMGUS'd me, Xanth and smodge. Then for Rat to take him away from -1 and say that Alexs posts have improved his standing? No. I am fairly sure that Rat and Alex are scumbuddies, all we now have to do is get rid of them and then find the one remaining scum / third party.
Do I really look like I have a clue?

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #170 on: October 12, 2008, 04:11:57 PM »
Alex, Rat, do you now realise how much we think you are scum?

It is not just coincidence that Alex gets put at -1 to hammer straight after he practically OMGUS'd me, Xanth and smodge. Then for Rat to take him away from -1 and say that Alexs posts have improved his standing? No. I am fairly sure that Rat and Alex are scumbuddies, all we now have to do is get rid of them and then find the one remaining scum / third party.

Why, after all the continual calls not to, do you persist in assuming shit about the setup? You're absolutely sure there are 4 scum/3 scum 1 third party? Absolutely?

Strago

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #171 on: October 12, 2008, 04:12:47 PM »
Okay, jumping back in a bit sooner than I expected.

I can't really find fault with his reasoning, but the act always puts me off somewhat. If Delta ends up being town, which I highly doubt, I would think Alex (and me, admittedly) would be highly suspect.

This. This is one of those big fallacies, the conventional wisdom being to rather greatly suspect the person who proposes this sort of 2-for-1 deal. Then again I obviously suspect Alex myself, so I get where Soppy is coming from. Sopko's looked pretty good to me all game, but this tarnishes that a tad.

So Strago shows up out of nowhere, calls the day as having only two trains when (albeit much to my dismay) a bunch of people have just started voting elsewhere, and puts a man to -1?  Ouch.

When I voted there were three votes on you, three votes on Delta, a vote on Rat and a vote on Andrew. I actually didn't notice the fact that you'd gone up to four votes (I was going by the Cap'n's count at the top of the page), but I don't think the development of two oppositional trains at that point can really be questioned.

Quote
If you've paid attention to recent games at all, Delta's complained nonstop and emo self hammered because he kept drawing vanilla townie.  Noticing his enthusiasm and concluding that he isn't vanilla town isn't exactly hard to do.  It was a throwaway comment in the first place, and even if you are determined to hold it against me, you'd be calling me stupid, not scummy, for as scum I'd have no reason to do that, ja?

I... have not been paying close attention to recent games, actually. Delta self-hammered out of frustration? Mrfff. Well, suddenly I understand a bit better the universal position on Delta that I'd gotten a feel for but never entirely grokked.

Bleh. Combining that sudden new knowledge of Delta's past with Alex being closer to hammer than I thought...

##UNVOTE: Alex

I need to re-examine this. So many ninja posts, looking at them now.

Ranmilia

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #172 on: October 12, 2008, 04:19:44 PM »
No, Delta.  No I do not.  I agree that it may very well possibly not be coincidence that I got sent to -1 all of a sudden (with you voting me only about when Strago shows up?), but uh

The only case on me, STILL, is that I am attacking Delta.

And I still have not seen a single person or post explaining why this is a bad thing or how Delta is NOT absurdly scummy through all the points I have laid out.  In fact it seems that everyone is completely ignoring that and trying to take me out in response by picking at the way I have made my arguments against him rather than what my arguments actually are.

I don't even know anymore.  If there's anything I can help people with, some better way I can explain myself, tell me.  I admit I'm very frustrated by this turn of events. 

Ninja edit - and now Strago claims he didn't KNOW he was putting me at -1?

Either I should stop posting altogether or I should stop trying to be diplomatic.  I don't even know what to do anymore.

Deltaflyer

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #173 on: October 12, 2008, 04:25:26 PM »
Why, after all the continual calls not to, do you persist in assuming shit about the setup? You're absolutely sure there are 4 scum/3 scum 1 third party? Absolutely?

Because Alex said that there was three scum, he may have ben telling the truth. Seiriously, how can you all start disregarding Alex's practical OMGUS and Rat's saving of him? You said it yourself:


Hell, the subsequent post by Rat makes it more suspicious, almost like a concerted effort.

Look, even now they are manipulating play away from each other. Strago, you look even more suspicious like you are in league with those two...

Ninja'd by alex:

You are so DAMN SCUMMY! LOOK! NOT ONE RUDDY MENTION YOU YOUR THREE OMGUS'S!!!


Do I really look like I have a clue?

Strago

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Re: Incompetent Mafia - Day 2 (Game Topic)
« Reply #174 on: October 12, 2008, 04:29:26 PM »
Come on, man. It happens. Contrary to popular belief, I'm a fallible dude. I saw Captain K's post count at the top of the page, I didn't see the vote lower down. Sue me. If you're going to throw your hands up in the air like this when things aren't going your way you're starting to tread on emo self-hammer sort of territory yourself. Relax.

Oh great, now Delta's doing the "Scum team free association" game. Argh. Man, what possible use would that have had for me as a scum partner with Alex right now? And now with the all caps and millions of unnecessary punctuation marks. Grfff. I need to look over Delta's stated case against Alex again.