Incompetent Mafia - GAME OVER (Game Topic)

[Ranmilia]

All right.  6 hours left.  Pushing Delta is obviously hopeless now.  I'm assuming he has a good enough role for the scum that they're unwilling to let him go.

Obviously I'll be voting Smodge in self defense if it comes down to that.  I'll be up for a while though and given his timezone and that he should also be around, I'm willing to wait for him to be around and post again before sticking him at -1/deadline lynchbait.  Kinda sorta getting cold feet at seeing the train on him persist and no other options form... maybe.  I dunno.  I don't like this, I don't like that people formed up on him but not on Delta or Xanth.

Andrew's absence is... notable.  What the heck else can I say.

Door:  "Your case is less valid because it's shorter than the others you've made."  I am sorry but that just does not make any sense to me.  In my view the complete opposite is true, a case that can't be suitably expressed in one or two sentences is probably not worth making.

Xanth:  I understand that it takes you a while to write your posts, but it does not take that long to read other people's posts and come to a decision on them.  You had all of day 1 and all of the night to read and think and you still insist it takes 48+ hours into day 2 for you to adequately put a vote down on someone?  That's just unbelievable for a game that's only 4 or 5 pages of posts (and less than that of actual content) at that point, unless you paid no attention at all during day 1, which is obviously not the case.  It is nothing more than an excuse for you to hang back until you see how day 2 shapes up, at which point you tailor the end of your analysis to whatever's most convenient at that time.  Not cool.

[Smodge13]

Sorry was packing to move house for this weekend and also installing my new hard drive.
Haven't caught up on much but i see the train is forming on me.
*sigh* was hoping not to have to do this.
Don't have much time so posting this for now and more later.

looks liek the lynch is between me and Alex.
Roleclaim time while there's still a chance to turn it around.

I am town cop, last night i decided to investigate Alex simply because he is often a good place to start, i also disliked the tunnel vision after Delta.
Anyway Alex came up as Mafia.
now sanities i know i can't be sure of, i had bad feeling about Alex for the reasons i've already explained, went after him for 2 reasons.
1. I believe he's scum naturally.
2. It wold at least confirm my sanity seeing his flip.

This is why i have been so 1 sided today and gone after only Alex.

[Ranmilia]

Oh!  Well okay then.  That almost makes sense and explains Smodge's behavior, except for the part where I'm not scum, and the part where the mod outright told us there aren't any standard roles.

Once again, I am going to repeat that you should not assume anything about the setup.  While I'm not going to give out details on what exactly Stoolpigeon and Corrupt Politician do, do not assume that they correspond to any existing archetypes from other games.  I made up all the roles from scratch, so the likelyhood of them matching with "standard" Mafia roles is slim.  Use your eyes and ears, and forget what you know from previous games.  As Yoda said, "Unlearn."

##Unvote: Delta
##Vote: Smodge

As for myself:  I'm the Town Gun Pawn Shop Owner.  Guns in Arpehgeia are moderately illegal - but only moderately.  They must be rented.  Every night I can see who rents guns.  Renting a gun does not necessarily mean killing someone with it or being scum, but the obvious implications are there.

Night 1 I saw Bardiche and two other people I do not wish to name at this time rent guns.  I'm reasonably sure at least one of those two is a town vig of some sort just via common sense.  No idea why Bard would have a gun, but that's what I saw.  Kind of doubt the GF would be making the kill, though, so one of the people I saw might have been the scum assassin as well.  Given that, I don't think revealing my other results is worth it right now.

[Smodge13]

Hey cop is the role i was given, as far as i've been told its a normal cop role, i don't know why Captain K says that when its been descirbed to me in my PM from him as a perfectly normal role.
Switching your vote does nothing but buy you time Alex, my death will at least confirm alot more than i could while Alive.

[Smodge13]

Also guys don't rule out soppy's idea of Alex/Delta scum buddies.
Was planning to look at Delta tonight if the Alex lynch showed me i was a sane cop
Was going to save this until day 3

to quote another game a long long time ago from Alex

On the other hand,
if I was his scumbuddy
I'd advise him thus:

"Play poor, really poor,
and town will dismiss it as
just Smodge being Smodge."

Was weak on its own, hence i was going to check out delta before pushing it.
Alex would have had too much townie cred when the lynch he was pushing for Delta turned up scum.

Plain and simple i got screwed partially in my role i guess because there has to be some catch that captain K left unless he forgot my role when he made that comment.
Anyway still wish i had more time to put a decent post together

[AndrewRogue]

To try and work and backwards from this point.

On the current role claims...

Smodge's feels... really, really convenient. You pick the one person you end up paired against for the lynch? You ignore the other big day one cases to investigate Alex? And then, of course, there's the sign-up topic that, as Alex points out, that says there aren't standard roles.

Alex's is... interesting, and I'm earnestly curious about the other results.

On lesser notes that stand out to me...

Delta has done absolutely nothing to make me feel better about him. I still consider him a perfectly viable lynch at this point.

Carth... I don't think he's scum currently. Despite Remo's warning, the fact is that he's made some overall solid points and has done nothing to make me think that he is scum. Still, need to keep him in the back of the mind at least. Would hate to have had the answer right in front of us and have our chance of victory sniped right before our eyes. :p Of course, don't know for sure at this point!

Xanth... jumps out at me for one particular line in reply #209, where he says I've lurked like a pro and haven't really been called hard on it at this point. No problem with claiming I've had a low profile, that much is true. My real problem comes from his second point. The fact is that, no, I have been called on it. Repeatedly. On the very same page, before his post, we have... Delta, Sopko and Alex all mentioning me and making it clear that they are aware of my presence. Its not major, but it is the sort of thing that stands out to me as sort of... twisting the truth? Thinking I'm suspicious for lurking is fine, but yeah. I'm certainly not skating by without notice here.

Anyhow... despite not usually being fond of lynching folks claiming cop, under these circumstances, Smodge stands out as pretty bad looking at this juncture. His roleclaim is weak and his investigative claim is even weaker. I'll be up for somewhere between another 30 minutes to an hour, so I'm gonna look back for any particular stand out things. If you don't want me to hammer Smodge (I believe we are at that point?), please let me know.

[Ranmilia]

Re: my results

Revealing them, I am almost certain, would out a town vig to the scum.  That is bad.

Due to the whole "Did Bard make the kill/why does Bard have a gun/which one of the two is the scum/are they both scum or town" thing going on, I don't think it'll help find scum right now, or maybe ever unless I can get another night of results.

Bad > good.

[Smodge13]

Prefer if you didn't, more talk time is good and we only need most votes not majority.
I know i stand little chance of convincing people my claim is genuine.
Reason i chose Alex, the going after Delta from day 1 felt really bad to me, Delta i considered a waste of time investigating because scum or town he would probably end up being lynched at some point, generally when playing cop i like to pick the survivors, those who i think will last until the end so as to make it more useful. Alex consistently survives until later days of the game and so was a good pick.
Also Andrew no it isn't convenient, i went after Alex from the start of today and have refused to budge off him, it clearly shows my result in case of NK, this is also why i list the bad things about Delta, thanks to the result i got i hold Alex as scummier than delta hence the whole post and no vote on Delta.
Finally i know i said i wouldn't believe roleflips, i am only 90% sure Alex is scum, the other aim of me pushing the Alex lynch so hard was to find my sanity so that from there i could work out what i was for the rest of the game.
So people probably ask why not lynch Delta and aim for Alex later?
Easy, Alex would gain way to much Townie cred if Delta flipped scum that it would be imposssible for me to convince the town that Alex was scum.
Hopefully this satisfies a few of you i finally finished packing and should be around now.
Any other questions just ask.

Andrew it would be best not to hammer, gives time for discussion right until the end, also hypothetically if i was scum, only scum would attempt a last minute turnaround to screw town over which would show exactly who they are so theres not really any threat in leaving it at -1

[AndrewRogue]

Actually, I do see a perfectly legitimate threat. People not wanting to lynch the cop (especially at this late hour where there aren't many people on) accidentally getting us a no lynch. Its not likely, but its quite possible. And, given that there isn't much discussion at this hour anyway, I'd much perfer to avoid that threat.

Anyhow, doing one last look through the thread to see if any final thoughts jump out at me and, if nothing does, I'ma drop the hammer.

[Smodge13]

before hammer is when Rat and  Eviltom come on, hell even Delta shows up soon, xanth also said he would be appearing before hammer, what are you talking about not much talk at this hour?.
Got to wonder what you have to fear, maybe that my results will actually convince people that Alex is scum?

[EvilTom]

I was expecting this. Typical last ditch cop claim as scum is about to get lynched.

Roleclaim time while there's still a chance to turn it around.

Also typical waiting to the last minute; after 45 hours of careful town deliberation and discussion, you've thrown out this claim at the last second, when most people are asleep, so that town won't have time to make an informed decision - instead you're hoping we all blindly agree with you despite the fact that you're currently the most likely scum.

Don't have much time so posting this for now and more later.

If there was ever a scumtell, this was it. Major warning signs with just these words. And nothing much more has been posted except "don't lynch meeee".

Lie #1:

I am town cop, last night i decided to investigate Alex simply because he is often a good place to start, i also disliked the tunnel vision after Delta.

What what what what?!!
You spend all of day 1 saying I'm scum, voting for me, getting in arguments with me, then you claim to be cop and that you didn't investigate me?! There is no way I'm going to believe that after day 1 you wouldn't investigate the person you painted as scum #1. I bet that if I were tied with you for lynch, you'd have 'investigated' me. This is just all too convenient.

Lie #2:

This is why i have been so 1 sided today and gone after only Alex.

You didn't *just* focus on Alex at all, you went after others. In fact you spent more time talking about Delta than you did Alex.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2128.msg36502#msg36502
You didn't vote on them, I'll give you that, but you weren't '1 sided' at all. You talked about enough people so you could fake a cop-claim at the last minute and get everyone to jump onto the next-biggest train.

I'm not believing this claim, it's just far too convenient.

And now smodge is trying to bait people in. Umm, yeah, posting, relax; you make it sound like we're all hiding. I'd better post this quick or I'll get in trouble with smodge :\

[Ranmilia]

What is there to talk about?  You're just baiting people and fearmongering now.  I'll grant there's a 1% chance or so of you actually being a paranoid or insane cop (if that's the case in this allegedly high scum game, o_O at the Captain) or me being framed (I guess possible but...) or something, but, uh, Occam's Razor here, and none of that accounts for your claim going directly against what the mod said about roles and lacking any flavor.
(Nevermind the fact that Occam's Razor still points to Delta being horribly scummy, dead godfather directly implicates him, etc etc but be that as it may, I guess we can continue that discussion tomorrow.)

[AndrewRogue]

*facepalm*

I can't believe this didn't occur to me earlier. You chose Alex over BOTH Carth and Delta. I... argh there. Why would you ignore someone fingered by a town power role (of some sort) or top candidates with an investigative power? Hell, even your logic for choosing Alex is kinda faulty too. Investigating someone who is sure to get lynched is a great way to check your sanity! Otherwise, assuming you really think having a sanity is a viable threat, you are relying on someone you think is going to survive... getting lynched... to check your power?

I... yeah. I've got nothing here. Since I see no complaints...

##Unvote: Delta
##Vote: Smodge

Ninja Edit: Still no complaints/shocking last minute discussion of awesome. Good night, sweet friends.

[Captain K.]

Day 2 Votecount.  About 20 minutes left.  Yes, this votecount is correct, despite something obvious missing.

Carthrat:  Deltaflyer2k8 (0)
Deltaflyer2k8:  Sopko, Sir Alex, AndrewRogue (0)
AndrewRogue:  Lady Door, EvilTom, Xanth  (0)
Sir Alex:  Carthrat, Smodge13, Lady Door, Deltaflyer2k8, Strago, Sopko  (4)
Smodge13: EvilTom, Carthrat, Xanth, Strago, Carthrat, AndrewRogue (5)
Sopko:  Carthrat

[Smodge13]

Huh?

[Captain K.]

Also, sorry to mislead you guys earlier.  There may be "standard" roles (like Godfather) that are normal to Mafia.  I meant that any unusual stuff like "Jester" or "Stoolpigeon from some obscure game" wouldn't be likely.

[Smodge13]

This would have been nice a few hours ago.
Xanth's online
Alex?, Andrew?.............can't believe im going to say this........... Delta?

[Smodge13]

Where did Alex's vote for me go?, this really looks like a restriction to me.
Please tell me someones online.
Alex's vote isn't in the count
And if he's a gun store owner, why has he got a vote restriction
More proof of scum right here...... and no time left v.v

[Captain K.]

Checking the time.

3 minutes.

[Smodge13]

2 minutes, who's online says Andrews posting...............

[AndrewRogue]

And here trouble sleeping got me to look at the computer to check if the flip was up and... well...

...uh...

That's...

...agh...

This is why last minute stuff sucks, people. This is really rock and a hard place, here. As is... mrgh. Your entire line of reasoning on copping reeks of an excuse to me. But, at the same time, we suddenly have CRAZY missing vote. Crap. Against my better instinct, I'm switching trains, because... seriously. That's... nuts. And I can't think of a possible reason for it to happen with town Alex.

##Unvote: Smodge
##Vote: Alex

[Captain K.]

TIME.  LET ME CHECK THE COUNTS.

[Captain K.]

Carthrat:  Deltaflyer2k8 (0)
Deltaflyer2k8:  Sopko, Sir Alex, AndrewRogue (0)
AndrewRogue:  Lady Door, EvilTom, Xanth (0)
Sir Alex:  Carthrat, Smodge13, Lady Door, Deltaflyer2k8, Strago, Sopko, AndrewRogue (5)
Smodge13: EvilTom, Carthrat, Xanth, Strago, Carthrat, AndrewRogue (4)
Sopko:  Carthrat (0)

[Captain K.]

"Hey guys, sorry I'm late to the party," said Andrew.  "We're lynching Smodge?  Cool."

As Andrew prepared to lower the noose around Smodge's neck, he quickly spun around and snared Sir Alex's neck instead.  With a quick jerk, he snapped Alex's neck cleanly.

"WTF, Andrew?" said the Townies.

"Just wait," said Andrew.  "Look at his wallet."

Sir Alex, MAFIA REBEL, has been lynched.

It is now Night 2.  Send in night actions.

[Captain K.]

Short Night 2 is short.

Once again, the Town slept fitfully, wondering if all the Mafia had been eliminated.  In the morning, there were more deaths...

Hunter Sopko, TOWN ICE CREAM VENDOR, was killed as his ice cream cart was run over by a speeding vehicle.

Strago, MAFIA YES MAN, was killed by a single bullet to the head.

And then the Town found Xanth, who had hung himself in his own house.  The note he left said merely, "PlEaSe, nO mOrE GoOd CoP, bAd CoP!11!1"  Yeah, he really wrote the ones also.  What a nutjob.

Xanth, MAFIA GUILTY CONSCIENCE, has killed himself!