Season 46 rankings: Making the final cut.

[Dark Holy Elf]

1. As you said, Cloud of Darkness is assumed to have been blasted by the Warriors of Darkness before the fight, a la Crystal vs. Zeromus, Star Dragon Sword vs. Neclord, Psychowand vs. Zio, etc. Pretty strong precedent here and the alternative is she's just invincible, which is obviously unrankable.

2. Yeah, you have a pretty good summary of why FF3 individual PCs get a big ol' DNR.

3. The helper PCs are even less rankable, though - they have attacks, yes, but no HP, and generally do not function is normal characters in battle would. It's a situation more similar to that of XG Margie, who is more important plotwise than any FF3 helper, and from a bigger game, and in all versions of said game, and is still not ranked and considered unrankable by most. Heck, we didn't even rank Charmles, who is like the FF3 helpers except he actually has a win/loss condition from in-game.

[superaielman]

Changing to a no on all bosses for the moment. Persona games have not traditionally done well as boss ranks (See Sage), and it's something we could come back to later if demand's there without any problem. With the exception of a sounds unrankable final and a joke light it doesn't sound exciting either. Limiting the rank to the five-six core PC's is the way to go- they're the ones that seem to generate interest, and again we can come back later and add more as needed- which we will be doing for Metis/Aigis if they don't make it.

2. Abstain. I'd rather just not think about this. On the one hand its apparently fairly well played, on the other its really *really* old and the re-release is on the DS, which many may not own. Looks like she's getting in anyway and thats fine too.

DS has pretty good ownership in the DL and the group, which is one of the reasons I'm not too interested in trying the FF3 generics.

[Vortex Infinitum]

Persona 3

Yes
Yes

No to Minato, Metis, and Nyx Avatar. Abstain on Aigis. Yes to the rest of the PCs and Strega.


Cloud of Darkness

No
Yes

[Dark Holy Elf]

To elaborate about the DS, it's by far the best-owned current system in the DL. Now, granted, we have nothing ranked from it yet, so take that statement with a grain of salt, but yeah. I can't see standing against a game for that reason.

[superaielman]

The problem's more due to nothing being rankable from it, though it does have some nice remakes. Weird. But the remakes should have an impact. Hell, see DW4 not completely sucking this season compared to usual.

*Whaps P3 players* Any response to my comments/concerns about the bosses? If they're not all that notable, why not wait? If P3's at all a success we'll be back for some of the extra PC's anyway. And if it's not, ranking a few middle PC's is not a huge deal. I'm not confident enough about the game to say it merits a fairly heavy rank as of now.

[Yakumo]

What do you want us to respond to?  The only argument I really see against it is Sage's thing about how Persona bosses historically do badly, but then again, look at how Persona in general has done historically.  Nate and Ellen have two games to draw from and still have mediocre drawing as I understand it, and Maya is just an odd case in general.  I really don't see how an earlier ranking for a game with much less exposure has any sort of bearing at all on the rankings we're making this time around.

Besides, even including the three bosses, that brings us to what, ten ranks?  Yukari, Junpei, Akihiko, Mitsuru, Ken, Koromaru, Aigis(maybe), Shinjiro, and the three Strega bosses.  Sorry, eleven.  And really, DL-wise the bosses are probably more interesting than the PCs are, since they don't crumple over and die when anyone with any damage they're weak against looks at them funny and Takaya at least has more variety.

[OblivionKnight]

The P3 bosses should not be likened to Persona bosses (which...we have one example of from a long time ago), and more likened to DDS bosses, which...is also only one!  But better.  P3 is more on the level of DDS than P2 (much as I'd like to delude myself, P2 isn't great on a vote draw), far as I can see.

The bosses are very notable plotwise and are interesting gameplay-wise.  Chidori is epic failure (but AWESOME), with fun plot associated with her.  Jin is notable for the way he fights in his second form, and for tossing grenades around.  Takaya is revolver Jesus with a chest.  All 3 are pretty big and more than "not that notable".  They're definitely memorable and interesting - really don't see much to comment on here otherwise.  Really don't see a game as a "big rank" being a problem when you're ranking the important people. 

Also, most people have been supporting the Strega bosses so far, and remembering names, so I can't see them as being too obscure or whatnot.

Also, you said you're no-ing all bosses, but still supporting Cloud of Darkness?  Or did you mean just P3 bosses?  It's not very clear, and is a bit weird >_> 

[Ultradude]

The problem's more due to nothing being rankable from it, though it does have some nice remakes. Weird. But the remakes should have an impact. Hell, see DW4 not completely sucking this season compared to usual.

*Whaps P3 players* Any response to my comments/concerns about the bosses? If they're not all that notable, why not wait? If P3's at all a success we'll be back for some of the extra PC's anyway. And if it's not, ranking a few middle PC's is not a huge deal. I'm not confident enough about the game to say it merits a fairly heavy rank as of now.

Not so sure on memorability of P3 bosses in general aside form a few of the tougher ones being memorable for that reason, but Chidori at least has a decent presence in the plot and definite memorability IMO. The rest of Strega doesn't stand out as much, especially the fairly boring Jin whose character seems to be "jerk who follows Evil Jesus around". Still, I know it doesn't matter as much given the console gen, but it has been on the top 10 PS2 boards for a long while now, beating out TotA and hovering around FFX, so I know plenty of people know about it among people who are into RPGs. Heck, P4 is already on the top 10, so the franchise is definitely building a presence.

I'd definitely support Chidori and Takaya for a rank myself, and I'd say yes to Jin as well if it looked like people here were ok with him. As far as Nyx, it's all how we take the invincibility cheese I guess.

[Talaysen]

The problem's more due to nothing being rankable from it, though it does have some nice remakes. Weird. But the remakes should have an impact. Hell, see DW4 not completely sucking this season compared to usual.

If you mean "nothing being rankable" as in interp issues, that's dead wrong.  If you mean "nothing being rankable" due to not playing the games, then that's kind of the whole point here.  >.>

*Whaps P3 players* Any response to my comments/concerns about the bosses? If they're not all that notable, why not wait? If P3's at all a success we'll be back for some of the extra PC's anyway. And if it's not, ranking a few middle PC's is not a huge deal. I'm not confident enough about the game to say it merits a fairly heavy rank as of now.

Echoing the above.  It seems the only argument here is "Persona bosses haven't done well in the DL."  Well, "SMT bosses haven't done well in the DL" could've been applied to DDS and wasn't, so whatever.  And as Yakumo said, Persona games haven't done well in the DL, so the distinction between the bosses and PCs here is kind of pointless.

And I think the bosses will at least end up in different divisions other than Middle, which is a bonus, since like the entire PC cast is Middle.  >.>

[superaielman]

The problem's more due to nothing being rankable from it, though it does have some nice remakes. Weird. But the remakes should have an impact. Hell, see DW4 not completely sucking this season compared to usual.

If you mean "nothing being rankable" as in interp issues, that's dead wrong.  If you mean "nothing being rankable" due to not playing the games, then that's kind of the whole point here.  >.>

The big releases and successes in group are not rankable or are already ranked. FF3 was a huge smash hit, DW4's a square release, Pokemon is Pokemon. Some DS RPG's do have playership, just have other issues there. I'm sure we'll see something rankable from the console one of these days, maybe DW5.

And fair enough to the P3 thing.

[Niu]

P3

Yes
Yes
Rank all but Minato, Aegis, Nyx

CoD

Yes
Yes

Though, still wonder how she got ahead of Xande?

[Excal]

Xande isn't memorable/kinda boring?  I mean, as far as I recall, he's just a fragile nuker, which means he's probably...  just a heavy.

[Niu]

I found Xande and CoD to be equally boring plot or combat. But in terms of the plot narration, Xande is more out there as a direct threat.

[Dark Holy Elf]

The very fact that she was the one nommed, not him (and this was reflected in what, over a dozen different votes?), speaks to the fact that there is something about her that is much more memorable, at least to most of us.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I'm going to go with: Even if all other things about CoD and Xande are equal... Dissidia + Boobs + Final Boss >>> Xande

Just me, though.

[OblivionKnight]

I agree with Djinn.  Much more of a reason to rank someone.  Really, Xande has a naked blue chest.  He's like a smurf - and smurfs aren't hot enough to be ranked.

Rank Tifa's boobs.

Granted, I'd still be up for adding Dorga, Unne, and Xande as ranks later, so...

[Meeplelard]

Its interesting to note that Xande has an even bigger interp split than CoD if you want to take that view point (for all that I suspect most vote on the FF3DS form.)

FF3DS has Meteor + Physical which...2HKOed on average? unsure if he can use Meteor above a certain HP threshold; he's also easy to 2-3 turn in game, without much twinking, which as Excal pointed out, Fragile nuker.

FF3o, he has 2HKO damage with Meteor, true! ...which he uses once every other turn.  And he's certainly not durable either (if you have your Sages summon Bahamut everyturn instead of wasting time with Cure 4, its very easy to kill him before his 4th turn, ie his second action.)  Basically, in practice, he's a 4HKOing boss with no variety whatsoever, and no real specialties in durability.

FF3DS, you can make a case for him in Heavy; would need to look him up exactly, but its not farfetched.
FF3o, I struggle to see him getting out of Light.

This is compared to CoD whose Godlike vs. Heavy; one division vs. two, hurrah?

[Sierra]

Persona 3

1. Have you played this game?

Yes.

2. Rank it?

Yes. Rank all non-Minato/Metis PCs and the Strega goofballs. I actually don't mind Nyx, but I'm not about to fight for it either. Aigis...yes if there's a concensus to actually list her as The Journey only, but we don't seem to have reached that point yet. Abstain for now.

As for the bosses, Super? Frankly, they're potentially more interesting than some of the PCs in a duel. At the least, Chidori is a hilarious Puny.

~

FF3 (Dark Cloud)

1. Have you played this game?

Nope.

2. Rank it?

Yes. I would despise seeing the generics get ranked, but Dark Cloud is fine. Having just Gilgy and Ex-Death from FFV hasn't caused any problems.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Meep: Just for the record, 3DS Xande has a low OHKO with physical + aga (those are stronger than Meteor for power), or aga + aga if you allow that. So he's a pretty good Heavy, though sub-PCHP (if not by much) holds him back. 3o... yeah.

Most bosses become way better duellers in DS.

[Starphoenix das Helpoemer]

Persona 3

Played It? Yes.

Rank It? Yes.

Rank: All PC's except Minato and possibly Aigis (Depends on how vote splitting goes). Rank Strega (Chidori makes an awesome Light). Abstain on Nyx Avatar. Do Not Rank Nyx (Plot Boss). Sleeping Table is also DNR. Metis may be FW bait.

- POSSIBLE SPOILERS -

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However, are we going to re-rank everyone when we get enough viewership for "The Answer?" The main cast actually gets Boss forms that can do a good deal more than their PC forms can do (Mitsuru has One Hit KO damage in her boss form, and all of them get the added Holy and Dark protection for free on top of what they normally resist). Metis still wants her PC form though, while Aigis has no Boss Form, just the multi-persona base to go off of.

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[Taishyr]

Pers 3:

Playing it, rank it, rank the PCs (including Aigis) and Chidori. Abstain on all others.

FF3: CoD

Played it long time ago, rank her.

[superaielman]

This closes when the site closes, so in 13~ hours. Get your votes in now!

[Talaysen]

Persona 3

- POSSIBLE SPOILERS -

More The Answer spoilers.

Yeah, they'll have to be re-ranked. Though I'm not sure how much better they actually are offhand.  I'll get some notes later.

[Monkeyfinger]

Persona 3
No
No

GEE I'M SURE EXCITED ABOUT A GAME I WILL NEVER EVER PLAY GETTING MATCHES. That and there are scaling headaches simply because Minato even exists and it's a low draw and I don't think writerships was very good.

Final Fantasy 3 Forgotten Warrior: Cloud of Darkness
No
Abstain