RPGDL Season 46, Week 4 - Chisato once again picks on the elderly for lunch.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2)

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2)
Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB)

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs)
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2)
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB) - Boomies. That's just too much magic for Fenril.

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs) - Honestly, this fight is sorta cool, but... Jude puts a lot of pressure with his -basic physical-, and MOMO's durability of awesome gets her actually borderline 2HKOed by freaking Silver Launcher.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9) - Respect for Doom speed: not found.

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2) - Chisato would need a OHKO or an instant double to win. She gets neither.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2): So yeah. At full HP Millenia sits there casting Cold, Stram, and Runner a whole bunch, alternating with healing. -7 Atk (if this does anything...), -7 Spd Legretta vs. +7 Evade Millenia is going to have some issues even after going below 75% HP, especially since Millenia resists fire. Millenia should be able to continue to slug through this form, too, I imagine, and easily SBE past the MA. Of course, this may not be necessary - Millenia can use SBE three times, and SBE always allows for at LEAST three turns of Millenia's if the enemy is slower than her, so that's seven uninterrupted spells. (Millenia can regen 70 MP per physical attack, so that's not an issue.)

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs): Jude just misses the 2HKO with Silver Launcher, and past that, MOMO is a Jude spoiler. Halving his speed is instant death to any and all Assault Buster related strategies, and yes, Life Shot easily outraces Jude's awesome 4-5HKOing physical. So yeah, MOMO slows him, buffs up and smashes. Weird.

EDIT: Well, I should add that I'm assuming one point of VIT means a 5 point damage reduction in XS1. If it's more than that, then MOMO might be 2HKOed after all and then Jude wins. Fight entirely hinges on a Silver Launcher 2HKO.

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2): Chisato doesn't OHKO.

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8)- Empyrea. Perfect tools to take out Ellen.
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2)- Zenon. Crushes either form. Deis 1 is outslugged, Deis 2 Sheds and is smashed.

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2)- Millenia. NEB has the right of this. Holy crap, I never though Millenia's evade tricks would ever matter, but an enemy with -5 Move has a 0% hit rate unless the enemy is charging or defending. Crushing Legretta's attack just seals it even more.
Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB)- Geshp

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs)- MOMO. I think if NEB thinks MOMO wins, then she definetely wins to me since the WA 4 kill point is like 26K to me.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)- Zidane

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2)- Tellah. Magic smash
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos)- Imoen.

[Monkeyfinger]

Godlike

Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2)

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2)

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs): I'll be damned. Well, I'll never complain about that little shit Jude getting stomped.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2): Seeing that instant double.
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos)

[muakaka]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8)- Yeah, bad match for Ellen here.
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2)- Er.... Healing feels enough here. My Zenon respect may be a little low, but I'll change my vote should someone convince me.

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2)-
Boss that needs to take damage in order to get their own, and isn't immune to stat busts.
Normally, Millenia LOVES these kinda opponents. But.... Legretta can use Overlimits(see my latest post in stat topic).
Millenia can't stat bust her, so she buffs and heals appropriately.
After that, this turns into a battle of attrition, more-or-less. Against a slugger boss with solid 2HKO, even with buffs, after 75% HP.

Millenia only has 3 shots of SBE, and not much room for anything else besides magic.
Legretta's got constant 2HKO, reduces Millenia's damage by half in Overlimits, cancels SBE by activating Overlimits, and has Prism Ballet for overkill.

Course, that's if you allow Legretta Overlimits and give Millenia Mana Eggs.
I allow the former cause she can in-game, and disallow the latter(Besides Chaos Egg in the stat topic) unless she has some plot claim to them.

I think Legretta still takes it if you don't allow both Overlimits and Mana Eggs, since Millenia needs to rely on Heel Drop to reduce Legretta's stats.
Which needs 140 SP before 75% HP, and leaves Millenia with a SINGLE SBE. Doesn't help that Millenia can't heal throughout the battle without Mana Eggs, and Legretta's burning through that HP before her 7 Heel Drops are done.
Opting for SBE + damage straight away eats Prism Ballet.

Allow Mana Eggs and no Overlimits, Legretta probably goes boom.

Now that some things have been clarified, this match boils down to MA overkilling Millenia, or Legretta dies before MA.
Not respecting Millenia damage enough for the MA not to trigger. It's still solid boss HP.

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs)- Slow vs. Jude. Turns this fight into a JOKE.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2)- Chisato....not OHKO-ing.
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos)- Hell if I know.

[Taishyr]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8) - Ellen needs two turns to win. I don't remember her evasion being good enough to dodge either attack by Empyrea, though, which means she falls.
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2) - Deis might be able to win this if stat downs can hit Zenon. Otherwise, it'd be a wash the other way, I suspect. Not having played Dis2, tho...

Heavy

Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB) - Geshp really doesn't like that durability.

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs) - Speed.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9) - Need to check something. Leaning Zidane.

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2) - Abstain for now. My Tellah durability respect is almost nonexistent, though, so.

[Dark Holy Elf]

muakaka: Just so it's clear, the only Mana Egg Millenia needs in this fight is Chaos Egg, the one she starts with. It has both (low-level) healing and stat downs. She most certainly does not need all mana eggs, and I don't think many people would allow that anyway.

Also, why wouldn't Millenia be able to use stat downs? (You kinda contradict yourself in that post, first saying she can't, but then mentioning a Heel Crush strategy.) G2 stat downs work on everything.

[superaielman]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2)- Tenative Zenon.

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2) TotA bosses struggling versus buffing? I'm stunned by this. Stunned, I tell you.
Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB)- Fenril resists ice magic and has some evade, but I don't think it's enough offhand, her HP isn't all that special.

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs)- Slow helps but not enough.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)- Zidane goes first and Poco doesn't 2HKO. I'm not sure how the hell Zidane's supposed to lose this, Doom does not take four turns.

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2)- Stun-KO. Tellah is both slow and frail and is Tear Gas bait.
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos)

[Monkeyfinger]

Zenon cannot be stat downed. I fucking wish he could be stat downed, it would make him so much easier to control in game.

[Dhyerwolf]

Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2)- Er.... Healing feels enough here. My Zenon respect may be a little low, but I'll change my vote should someone convince me.

Healing means Deis 2, which makes sense given that she needed that form to move on last round. Now, Deis 2 durability isn't really all that impressive. Her HP is a tad above average, and her defense is above average, but with someone like Rand around, it's not horribly impressive. Now Shed lowers her defense, and Zenon already has about 75% physical damage to average. Now sure how much Shed lowers it, but if it lowers it below that, she gets OHKOed and the healing strategy doesn't work.

Now, if it doesn't lower her that much, she's still going to be heal locked. This is really important, because Zenon halves elements above 50% HP and has solid Mdef. Of course, Zenon HP respect varies, but it's damn hard to rush him in game. But if Deis is both heal-locked and not doing much damage, she's going to crit bait. Everything Zenon has can crit, but the rate isn't too great (10%? 15%? 20%?) so I didn't test it, but Deis isn't really doing much damage, so she's bait for it. It OHKOs her even with non-Shed defense when it goes off.

And after all, you do have to see Zenon with less than 1.6 PC HP, because otherwise she can't avoid his 25% HP limit where he just OHKOs her anyways.

Zenon is immune to all stats down but Evade and Accuracy down, which he still resists by 50%.

[SnowFire]

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2) - Was originally planning to vote Legretta under the logic that the attack debuffs probably don't matter against her MA, and even if they did, it's still a horrific OHKO against Millenia's durability.  However, Millenia can boost her evade?  That changes things, since MAs can miss, or at least miss some of their hits if you escape well enough (Sync's Harrowing Gale is especially bad on this).  Of course, Millenia isn't out of the woods - during the buffing phase of the fight, Legretta can get criticals and stun Millenia, each of which is potentially really bad.  And obviously Legretta can hit Millenia with Prism Ballet (I doubt Millenia can work through all of Legretta's HP fast enough under SBE to finish the job.).  So good fight, but leaning on the MA missing for now.

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs) - Come on, this is freakin' Jude, folks.  Definitely agree that the WA4 killpoint is/should be high enough that even with MOMO's suspect durability, Phantom Line/Silver Launcher is not going to be enough here.  Amusingly enough, this might be one of the rare matches where XS1 MOMO is a better choice than XS3 MOMO, due to XS3 MOMO being relatively slower and probably not having quite enough magical heft to OHKO Jude immediately (and Abyss Walker probably not working against all of Jude's moves, Apoptosis if nothing else).

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2) - The Tear Gas stun-lock argument works for me.
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos) - Various evil status spells.

[Nitori]

Godlike

Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2) - I have no idea~

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2) - I guess~

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs) - MOMO durability hype? Hehe~

[Dhyerwolf]

I think Legretta still takes it if you don't allow both Overlimits and Mana Eggs, since Millenia needs to rely on Heel Drop to reduce Legretta's stats.
Which needs 140 SP before 75% HP, and leaves Millenia with a SINGLE SBE. Doesn't help that Millenia can't heal throughout the battle without Mana Eggs, and Legretta's burning through that HP before her 7 Heel Drops are done.
Opting for SBE + damage straight away eats Prism Ballet.

Allow Mana Eggs and no Overlimits, Legretta probably goes boom.

Chaos Egg already has the Mov Down, Speed Down and Attack Down spells on it. Heel Drop would only serve to drop Legretta's defense. Millenia's physical damage is her physical attack, critical, and her Cancel special. All the other ones are magic, I believe, so Legretta's defense is then pretty irrelevant. -5 MOV Legretta or +5 MOV Millenia alone is enough to give Legretta a 0% hit rate, so even if OL's prevent stat downs, Millenia is okay on that front too.

[Bardiche]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8) - Rooting for Ellen, no vote because I didn't get to Emp on DQ8.
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2) - Deis respect isn't that high, Zenon respect is.

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2) - Buying the Evade and SBE hype.
Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB) - No vote~

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs) - Go go Jude.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9) - Go go Zidane.

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2) - Chisato needs to end Tellah before he gets a turn, or otherwise he's raping her with Status attacks. Mini works, but I guess Frog does as well. Once she's Mini'd, though, her offense is reduced to nothing, and then Tellah just needs to hurr stomp.
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos) - I have no idea what Baldur Gate is, but whoever it is, she can't suck worse than Tai Ho, right?

[OblivionKnight]

Shut up, Mokuba.

(what, I haven't said it yet, and wanted to >_>)

[Bardiche]

;_; Okay big brother~

[muakaka]

Chaos Egg already has the Mov Down, Speed Down and Attack Down spells on it. Heel Drop would only serve to drop Legretta's defense. Millenia's physical damage is her physical attack, critical, and her Cancel special. All the other ones are magic, I believe, so Legretta's defense is then pretty irrelevant. -5 MOV Legretta or +5 MOV Millenia alone is enough to give Legretta a 0% hit rate, so even if OL's prevent stat downs, Millenia is okay on that front too.

Wait... OR?
Can't remember Chaos Egg, but... that's broken.

Just to clarify, MAs pretty much have perfect accuracy without Free Run involved. Millenia can't move if she's not on her turn.
They ignore Force Field (Damage immunity), and ignores guard, and guarantees knockback(which means perfect accuracy in Tales). Cinematics-powered MAs are evil.
Which then turns this into MA or die. Still seeing the MA, so Millenia goes boom.

muakaka: Just so it's clear, the only Mana Egg Millenia needs in this fight is Chaos Egg, the one she starts with. It has both (low-level) healing and stat downs. She most certainly does not need all mana eggs, and I don't think many people would allow that anyway.

Also, why wouldn't Millenia be able to use stat downs? (You kinda contradict yourself in that post, first saying she can't, but then mentioning a Heel Crush strategy.) G2 stat downs work on everything.

That was the second part of the argument, if I didn't allow Legretta Overlimits. I do, which is the first part of the argument.
Overlimits cancel stat downs, even if they do work on her.

And vote-changing to Zenon. Good physical beatdown on Deis aren't very pretty without debuffs.

[Pyro]

Mystic Artes ignore defending, I guess. TotA Free Run dodging (i.e. getting the hell out of the way of an attack) is more akin to evade ANYWAY. Don't know what to say to Cancelling stat downs, but it doesn't really matter anyway. Spellbinding Eye + speed ups should do it or something.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yeah. Being able to dodge MAs is pretty clearly their weakness in-game, I have no problem with holding that against them in the DL.

[Dhyerwolf]

Chaos Egg already has the Mov Down, Speed Down and Attack Down spells on it. Heel Drop would only serve to drop Legretta's defense. Millenia's physical damage is her physical attack, critical, and her Cancel special. All the other ones are magic, I believe, so Legretta's defense is then pretty irrelevant. -5 MOV Legretta or +5 MOV Millenia alone is enough to give Legretta a 0% hit rate, so even if OL's prevent stat downs, Millenia is okay on that front too.

Wait... OR?
Can't remember Chaos Egg, but... that's broken.

Hardly, considering that it takes 5 castings of either spell to achieve this effect. This almost never matters for Millenia in Heavy...until now! That said, I don't even think the MA part is really relevant here. Millenia saves basically all her SP for Spellbinding Eye and uses magic damage (Which...is basically all of her damage) to blow right past it. Legretta at 25% left is in no way going to take 2 Grudging Claws, let alone 3 (She'll be quite slow thanks to having her speed broken, so Millenia will just time to get another action after SBE ends). Just yeah...Millenia's techs are basically all magical, and the topic is wrong on calling them physical.

Also of note, Millenia doesn't need to worry about running out of SP since her physical strings will regen about 25 MP considering Legretta's defense (Two healing spells!). Millenia really can go on near forever until she really needs to start pumping out the damage.

Basically, HP limits vs Millenia=Bad, bad idea.

[Sierra]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8): Easy. Physical beats end this quick enough.
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2): Ditto.

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2): Good fight, but a strong case has been made for Millenia and I'm buying it.
Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB): Better at the same game.

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs): Dunno yet.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9): Holy shit, I can vote on all but one match this week.

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2): Status hax.
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos): Ditto.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8): Better slugger
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2): Huh, Zenon's doing better than I would have expected.

Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2): Wow Evade hax did something.
Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB): not enough ShF2 for me.

Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs): MOMO durability hype? Also, Jude speed makes me think she won't live to see a turn.
Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9) - Hmm... Doom works. I don:t hate Zidane like everyone else, so seeing him get a shot at champing with this trick doesn't bother me.

Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2): Tellah's abysmal speed means I'd probably see Chisato getting that instant double even if I took her as average speed. But as it stands, stun-hype vs. mages works, too.
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos): No BG for me.

-Djinn

[James_xeno]

Godlike

Ellen Kirishima (Pers) vs. Empyrea (DQ8)
Deis (BoFs) vs. Zenon (Disgaea 2)


Heavy

Legretta (TotA) vs. Millenia (G2)
Geshp (ShF2) vs. Fenril (OB)


Middle

Jude Maverick (WA4) vs. MOMO (XSs) - Slow (1/2). For Jude, that's down to just faster then Raquel (slowest) *Effective speed or a speed apocalypse by stats. Which, combined with her speed, about kills any threat from AB.  MOMO could then proceed to further pick apart Jude by going after his abysmal MDEF. And with game best evasion and accuracy. She shouldn't have to worry about any surprises. But even if worst comes to worst, she still has Star Wind for damage reduction, healing and better damage through Starlight if need be.

Poco (AtLC) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)


Light

Tellah (FF4) vs. Chisato Madison (SO2)
Imoen (BGs) vs. Tai Ho (Suikos)



Edit: Thanks super.

[superaielman]

Messed up your tag on Ellen's fight, James.