Metal Max Returns

[Bardiche]

H'okay. I took all characters at level 32, which is the level I had when I defeated the final boss, Noah. Coincidentally Noah is probably a pretty good rankable as well, but I need to test his damage against PCs on foot - he pretty much hit 800 MT against my tanks, which meant all my tanks were at 0 SP in two attacks. That's... That's really 'woah'. Add to that he attacks twice per round, and you have a pretty tough enemy on your hands.

Well, on to the goods.

Sort of important: the tank I was using for battle tests. All character damages with tanks are taken with this guy, which is the best rentable around! (or rather it's the highest number; took that as "best")

Renter #8
Chassis; Panzer (SP: 985)
Weight: 15.75t
Ammo: 0/32 (customizable, taking at 0 ammo)
Defense: 140
Slot Type:
Main Cannon 1
Autogun 1
Special 1

Main Cannon; 175mm Cannon (One)
Weight: 2.90t
Ammo: 10
Power: 700
Defense: 50

Autogun; Flame Thrower (One)
Weight: 2.40t
Ammo: infin
Power: 180
Defense: 20

Special; Fiveless 5 (One)
Weight: 3.60t
Ammo: 3
Power: 410
Defense: 28

C-Unit: Emmy r
Weight: 3.00t
Defense: 100
Hit Rate: +5%
Evade: +5%

Engine: V48 Hulk
Weight: 0.50t
Load: 38.00t
Defense: 83

-------------------

These are the characters. Note that the defense values within parantheses are with the best buyable protector gear, but protector gear is a bit unique. Specifically it negates all damage from the first attack you get hit with, unless that attack is below ~80 damage. Excessive damage seems to be 100% negated as well, but after negation the protector gear breaks.

Damage dealt and received in (parantheses) are on-tank, normal are on-foot. Battle tested against GI Zombie for both damage dealt and received. Most enemies have the same defenses, and either excessive firepower to take out tanks, or too little to harm tanks but enough to dent PCs.

Damage is min - max.

Evasion seems to be 3 out of 10 times on average for each character. Misses are 1 out of 10 for Hunter and Soldier, 2 out of 10 for Mechanic. Take that as you will.

All equipment is store-bought~

Stats:[/i]

Hunter - Level 32 - Man with No Rivals
HP: 1410
Combat Level: 34
Driver Level: 60
Repair Level: 30

Strength: 98
Intelligence: 77
Vitality: 147
Agility: 163

Attack: 348
Defend: 380 (420)

Equipment:
Rocket Punch - +250 Attack
Faceguard - +55 Defense
Hi-Polymer - +110 Defense
Battle Knuckles - +35 Defense, +8 Attack
Clad Boots - +40 Defense
Bulletproof Vest - +40 Defense, takes all damage from "Intense" attacks. (rate unknown)

Damage dealt:
330 - 370
(655 - 700)

Damage received:
230 - 500
(50 - 87)

Evaluation: In-tank, I'd scale him a High Middle. 3HKO with good durability is pretty nice! Is pretty one-sided though. Since he can dismount and mount the tank without expending a turn, he can use his Protector to block a charged attack if you allow it! I don't, though... Middle seems a good enough division (status bait in tank - electricity fries parts very rapidly, and sleep works!)! No tank I'd grade him a Light. Not a terribly good one, either - with Protector Gear he has immunity to turn-1 damage, but he's status bait to Paralyze now, too. 5HKO isn't that impressive, either.


Mechanic - Level 32 - Iron Magician
HP: 1410
Combat Level: 28
Driver Level: 35
Repair Level: 62

Strength: 85
Intelligence: 163
Vitality: 147
Agility: 90

Attack: 305
Defend: 343 (383)

Equipment:
Bazooka - +220 Attack
Faceguard - +55 Defense
Hi-Polymer - +110 Defense
Battle Knuckles - +35 Defense, +8 Attack
Clad Boots - +40 Defense
Bulletproof Vest - +40 Defense, takes all damage from "Intense" attacks. (rate unknown)

Damage dealt:
303 - 330
(648 - 700)

Damage received:
255 - 550
(55 - 100)

Evaluation: Like Hunter, except a bit worse. Same ratings, though, because the difference is nigh-negligible.


Soldier - Level 32 - Red Peony's Blood Sister
HP: 1938
Combat Level: 57

Driver Level: 35
Repair Level: 30

Strength: 171
Intelligence: 77
Vitality: 137
Agility: 90

Attack: 421
Defend: 343 (383)

Equipment:
Rocket Punch - +250 Attack
Faceguard - +55 Defense
Hi-Polymer - +110 Defense
Battle Knuckles - +35 Defense, +8 Attack
Clad Boots - +40 Defense
Bulletproof Vest - +40 Defense, takes all damage from "Intense" attacks. (rate unknown)

Damage dealt:
421 - 497
(634 - 700)

Damage received:
255 - 550
(55 - 100)

Evaluation: 1.2xPCHP, and better on-foot damage. Better Light than the other two without a tank, decent Middle on-tank. 3HKO's on foot, just for the record, and has a little better durability than the other two!


GRADINGS

HP:
1. Soldier - 1938
2t. Hunter - 1410
2t. Mechanic - 1410
avg 1586

Damage dealt:
1. Soldier - 459
2. Hunter - 350
3. Mechanic - 316
avg 375
(just for notes, PCs are more likely to score their high-end damages. these averages are taken with average damage between low-end and high-end damage, even though they usually hit either low- or high-end.)

Damage dealt: (high-end only!)
1. Soldier - 479
2. Hunter - 370
3. Mechanic - 330
avg 399

Damage received:
1t. Soldier - 402
1t. Mechanic - 402
3. Hunter - 365
avg 390

[Bardiche]

Oh shoot, just lemme do Noah, too!

Noah / Form 1[/size]
HP: ~10.000 (scaled to 2.5xPCHP)
Eva: 5 out of 10
Hit: 100%

Attacks against Tanks:
Laser Eye - 50 damage, MT
Electricity - Damage tank part, two hits destroys a tank part, ST

Attacks against PCs:
Laser Eye - 500 damage, MT
Electricity - Paralyzes, paralyzed characters cannot act and do not recover without Para-Non. If entire party is Paralyzed, you "game over", ST (hitrate seems to be 10%)

Damage taken:
700 from Excaliburs per turn. (Overpowered tanks, though!)

Evaluation: Middle. Good 3HKO, with good HP. This is not taking into account...


Noah / Form 2[/size]
HP: ~1.000 (scaled to 1.5xPCHP)
Eva: 6 out of 10
Hit: 100%
NOTE: IN THIS FORM, NOAH ATTACKS TWICE PER TURN!!

Attacks against Tanks:
Laser Eye - 800 damage, MT

Attacks against PCs:
Laser Eye - 5000 damage, MT

Damage taken:
100 from Excaliburs per turn. (Overpowered tanks, though!)

Evaluation: Actually has decent durability with Evasion and HP/defense. Damage from one round is solidly OHKO, too. Had initiative a lot, but competed with Hunter for it. Above average speed, certainly. High Heavy/Low Godlike in this state.

[Talaysen]

Nice job.  Some notes though:

PCs need averages for stats.  For example, the average HP is 1586, so Soldier there only has 1938/1586= 1.22x PCHP, not 1.4x.  Also, the damage average for on-foot would be ~375, and the Soldier has 459/375 = 1.22x (is this a coincidence) average damage, which is actually a high 3HKO by most people's views.  (2.5x average = OHKO, so 1.25x = 2HKO, 1.22x is just below that.)

For the boss, it's not good to compare its HP directly to PCs.  Kefka has 65,535 HP (which is like 26x the PC average, so 6.5x or so once you divide by 4), but dies REALLY QUICK.  Generally what people do (and I'm not saying you have to do this, but think about it), is take 2.5 rounds of damage to be 1x PCHP.  So, look at Noah 2 here.  If I'm reading this right, you do 100 per round?  (Or is it 100 per person, 300 per round?  I'll assume 100/round for now.)  So it takes 10 turns to kill him, divide by 2.5, and you get... 4x PCHP (if it's 300 per round, divide by 3 and get 1.33x PCHP).  Which is actually pretty durable.  Of course, it looks like a lot of that damage reduction is coming from defense, so something that ignores defense would actually kill it fast.

On another note, what do you mean by "attacks" and "attacks against PCs"?  "Attacks" are against tanks?

And again, good job.  Now go get a copy of Metal Saga.  >.>

[Bardiche]

I have Metal Saga.

Okay, I'm evidently new to this so I didn't know, haha. Editing averages into the first post after I finish posting this.



Uh, Noah stats... I had two Excaliburs mounted on each of my tanks, meaning they fired twice per round. And there were three.

So Noah form 1 suffers:

700 - 700 - 700 - 700 - 700 - 700 = 4,200 damage on turn 1. Since he evaded about half, let's go with 2,100 damage per turn.

I offed him in six turns, so it's agreeable. That'd set him at about 2.5xPCHP though, and actually throws him into Heavy.

Noah form 2 suffers... Well, it had Initiative every bloody round, but I killed him in two turns. Missed a few times on turn 1 and 2, but pulled out enough to destroy him. And yes, it actually has higher defense as Form 2, but probably wasn't meant to be durable, judging from the mad damage output. So then you still get less than 1xPCHP, and that's factoring in evasion.

//Edit: Yes, attacks is against tanks only.

[Talaysen]

I have Metal Saga.

Go play it.  >.>

Okay, I'm evidently new to this so I didn't know, haha. Editing averages into the first post after I finish posting this.

'scool.  I figured that was the case which is I why I mentioned this stuff to help out.

Uh, Noah stats... I had two Excaliburs mounted on each of my tanks, meaning they fired twice per round. And there were three.

So Noah form 1 suffers:

700 - 700 - 700 - 700 - 700 - 700 = 4,200 damage on turn 1. Since he evaded about half, let's go with 2,100 damage per turn.

I offed him in six turns, so it's agreeable. That'd set him at about 2.5xPCHP though, and actually throws him into Heavy.

Noah form 2 suffers... Well, it had Initiative every bloody round, but I killed him in two turns. Missed a few times on turn 1 and 2, but pulled out enough to destroy him. And yes, it actually has higher defense as Form 2, but probably wasn't meant to be durable, judging from the mad damage output. So then you still get less than 1xPCHP, and that's factoring in evasion.

Okay, so 4,200 damage per round.  We ignore the fact that he evades half of them.  Why?  Because that doubles his durability AND THEN you let him evade half attacks in the DL, so that's quadruple the durability.  That's obviously wrong.  Pretend all of them hit when you determine the HP, and then just say he has 50% evasion.  It works out in the end.

So 4,200 per round, so he would have 10000/4200/2.5 PCHP in the DL, which is... not very good, sadly (about PC-ish?).  But 50% evasion helps that a lot.  (Effectively means you have to attack twice as much.)

Second form's got lower durability (1000/600/2.5), but more evasion, speed, double acting, and much more damage, which is probably overall better.  Again, don't take evasion and speed or anything like that when factoring in durability.  Just HP and defense.  The evasion will take care of itself.

//Edit: Yes, attacks is against tanks only.

Might want to note that, since it's not completely obvious.  Well, it might be to anyone who played the game, but not to those of us who haven't.  >.>;

[Bardiche]

Okay, done that. Noah 2 would be High Heavy, maybe Low Godlike like that, though... Needs to get a turn. If he gets OHKO'd, he loses, but since his evasion is actually pretty high, it'd mean he has a reasonable chance to pull off an Eye Laser double. Which is ridiculously brutal.

I've just checked the boss again against tanks WITHOUT using the double Excalibur cheese, and I got wiped out, so I'm inclined to believe the double Excaliburs isn't being lame, but actually using a good winner strategy against the boss. Gaining levels does comparitively little for Tanks, so I don't think it's an issue of low-level.

[Talaysen]

Okay, done that. Noah 2 would be High Heavy, maybe Low Godlike like that, though... Needs to get a turn. If he gets OHKO'd, he loses, but since his evasion is actually pretty high, it'd mean he has a reasonable chance to pull off an Eye Laser double. Which is ridiculously brutal.

Well, considering you said he went first every round, that means he's pretty fast and probably won't have trouble getting that turn.