Magic

[metroid composite]

My other black deck, built under my usual reasoning that if you maintain the right consistency, your deck can be any size you want.

Not entirely true.

Let's say you're playing a two-colour deck with some card that's hard to cast; say the mana cost is WWBB.

If you compare the probabilities of these three decks:

15 card deck with 3 Plains, 3 Swamps, and 1 of this WWBB card.
30 card deck with 6 Plains, 6 Swamps, and 2 of this WWBB card.
60 card deck with 12 plains, 12 swamps, and 4 of this WWBB card.
120 card deck with 24 plains, 24 swamps, and 8 of this WWBB card.

Your chances of having the right mana to cast the card are a fair bit higher with the smaller deck.  In particular

15 card deck gives you a 60% chance to have WWBB with four lands.
30 card deck gives you a 45% chance to have WWBB with four lands.
60 card deck gives you a 41% chance to have WWBB with four lands.
120 card deck gives you a 39% chance to have WWBB with four lands.

It's not just that, either--with the 120 card deck you could potentially draw cards and turn up a hand full of 7 of this WWBB card.  You're also more likely to never draw it throughout the game, despite having the same ratio of it in the deck.

It seems to be a common misconception that sticking with 60 cards is only done so that there's a higher percentage of "good cards".  Turns out even a deck of "bad cards" will benefit from being a 60 card deck instead of a 120 card deck.

[Captain K.]

Yeah, what's with these oversized decks?  Always use the minimum deck size in any CCG.

Grefter's black deck is similar to what I used to run, although I always carried 1 Lich as backup.  Saved my ass on so many occasions.

[Grefter]

Oversized is the product of a casual approach to the game where you just throw in the cards you love to play.

Minimum deck size is how you play to win though to maximise your potential draws.  It takes a lot of willpower to make a 60 card deck when you have unlimited resources.  If you can force yourself into making a 40 card deck in the Micropose version of the game then you have some amazing force of will.

[NotMiki]

I see met's point, but it doesn't concern me for two reasons, one good and one you decide.

first: I posted a single-color deck, so there are no tricky cards to cast (though there sure are some big ones, and they're not sticking around when I revise it)

second: there's a presupposition here that there are specific must-cast cards in the deck.  there aren't.  the deck is set to a specific proportion (ok, that's out of whack to. but it won't be when I fix it!) that remains consistent despite size.

as for why I use large decks, as grefter so disdainfully pointed out, it lets me put the cards I love to play in.  put another way, since when I played I played repeatedly against a relatively small number of opponents, using a few powerful but situational game-altering cards let me stay unpredictable and press a mental advantage.  So someone playing white, say, who knows he's got my bread-and-butter drain life and pestilence routine licked with defensive cards he's holding can still be caught off guard by a rare maneuver.  The larger the deck, the more such cards I can fit in without compromising the overall mix.

so yeah, it's a non-tournament approach, for sure, but it's not just laziness.

[Grefter]

It wasn't disdainful (for once), it is how I play and love the game as well.  There is an element to the metagame that I like to take note of, balance it up, be disgusted at the overpowered dull games it creates and go back to building decks with a limited supply of cards due to restricted purchasing solely of booster/starter decks and never purchasing a specific card.

Games like that are actually a place where you can get away with pulling the "Fun" rule on people because you DO set your own grounds for how to play and the level of play that is being done.  Just like P&P RP or board games, it is all governed by humans and it is not a closed system with a small margin for error with balancing, it is on a massive sliding scale of potential.

[metroid composite]

Yeah, what's with these oversized decks?  Always use the minimum deck size in any CCG.

Not necessarily--I can see a couple of situations where you might not:

You're running a Battle of Wits deck.  (They've actually been tournament viable on occasion).

You need a lot of tutor targets to deal with a really wide variety of situations.  This is actually more relevant in casual, where you won't be running a sideboard, but also don't want to draw your enchantment removal most of the time.

You're playing a format with an odd restriction you want to get around.  A good example would be Prismatic, where every deck has a minimum of 250 cards, and 20 cards of each colour.  I've seen people try to run White Weenie in that format, by making their blue, black, red, and green cards all cycling (or similar) cards, and then running something like 900 cards so that they draw mostly white weenies and plains.

Milling is popular in the metagame.  If you expect to face people who try to win by running you out of cards, an easy counter is to just run more cards.  (This was particularly prevalent when Howling Mine + Stasis was popular--run 62 cards, and the whole "Howling mine makes you draw first" plan was foiled).

first: I posted a single-color deck, so there are no tricky cards to cast

True.  It's more going to manifest itself in terms of not drawing enough lands or drawing too many lands, or drawing only inexpensive spells, or drawing only expensive spells.

second: there's a presupposition here that there are specific must-cast cards in the deck.

Not necessarily; I just already had a spreadsheet for the WWBB casting cost, so it made for a really easy example.

[Captain K.]

Oh, I don't deny that there are specific situations where you want more than 60 cards.  But unless you've got a very specific reason to do otherwise, learn how to trim your deck to the minimum.  It's painful to cut cards that you love, but it's necessary to increase your winning percentage.

Unless of course, you just play for "fun".  *scoffs*

[Grefter]

When you play casually then you know there is going to be someone who got luckier with cards they pulled from boosters or there is always the guy that will buy cards and just isn't as skilled at reading the game situation.  You can't always play for a maximised win/loss ratio in that kind of environment.

Then of course there is always the Pain Deck type of thing where you just put together the biggest pain in the arse deck you can (Blue/Black!) for 3+ player games where your goal is to lose in the most glorious fashion possible by dicking with everyone else on the table.

[metroid composite]

Few cards that have caught my eye from Conflux:

Reliquary Tower
Nobody really cared about spellbook even though it cost 0 mana--it still costs a card.  This, however, costs less than a card (in that you still get a land, just one that only makes colourless), which makes it pretty interesting.

Path to Exhile
Swords to Plowshares is back....kinda!  This actually is an interesting drawback, particularly since they're printing it in the block with all the cards that care about what basic lands you control.  Also, because using it on yourself in the earlygame will sometimes be the right idea (as opposed to StP where using it on yourself is something you only do if you're about to die--more strategy here).

Scattershot Archer
This more than anything else in the set makes me think "wait, they printed what?"  They wanted to put some more emphasis on "green kills flyers" I guess.  Yes, they wanted to provide tools to beat an obnoxious blue/black deck...although there's 1-toughness flyers in other decks too like Birds of Paradise and various 1/1 flyers in White Weenie.  That's just quite an ability for a 1-mana creature.  This on top of it being 1-mana for a 1/2 and a Common.

Also, Archer that doesn't suck?  WTF?

CounterSquall
Cuts you like an EMO!

Master Transmuter
Most people's first reaction is "oh, you just use it to play big creatures; Elvish Piper was better".  That is, until they realize it can return itself to your hand, and then as the artifact to choose from your hand to put into play...it can choose itself.  (Or do the same blink effect with any other artifact).  The combo potential here is pretty amusing.

Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
At a certain point, WotC realized "in order to have expensive cards see use, we need to give them more power".  To some extent the novelty with 7-10 mana spells has worn off.  Nicol Bolas, however, is pretty mind-blowing.  +3 ability??  +3 ability that destroys target permanent?  Oh look, one of those "gain control of target creature" abilities...wait, where's the "as long as this is in play" clause o_O.  ...The -9 ability is silly, of course, but eh, that's par for the course as far as planeswalkers go.

Granted, maybe 8 mana will keep it out of the tournament scene, but it's still good for getting a reaction out of people.

[Ryogo]

I haven't played in a long time. I used to use a black/artifact deck, before artifacts were cool

But yeah, the last time I played was 2004 I think? Good times, but I can't play in tourney's. My cards are too old now/obsolete. Hell, I bought my first pack when I was 5 years old cause they looked cool. I got a behemoth of a card in the pack, a mighty 6/6 Deep Spawn. It cost 5 colourless + 3 blue, and had this text:

Trample
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Deep Spawn unless you put the top two cards of your library into your graveyard.
{1 Blue Mana}: Deep Spawn can't be the target of spells or abilities this turn and doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. Tap Deep Spawn.

Ph3ar the awesome power.

[Taishyr]

...Oh, whaaaaaat, they resurrected Nicol Bolas?

Fuggin' awesome. And they made her kickass, too; complete approval.

[NotMiki]

Yeah, I haven't kept up, but I assume the power of that archer is over the top.  Time was a 1/2 for 1 mana was good enough (though Rime Dryad was 1/2 for G and had snow-covered forestwalk!!)

[Grefter]

Also not kept up but holy shit those archers are crazy.

[metroid composite]

Time was a 1/2 for 1 mana was good enough (though Rime Dryad was 1/2 for G and had snow-covered forestwalk!!)

1/2 for 1 mana has never been particularly great; Savannah Lions have been around forever, and 2/1 is better than 1/2.  The decks I've seen made from Ice Age era cards tend to opt for stuff like Kird Ape or Ghazban Ogre rather than Rime Dryad.  So...not sure 1/2 for 1 was ever really "good enough" on it's own.  Just a hair below good enough, though, sure.

[Grefter]

W for a 2/1 was pretty good but yeah even back in the day Savannah Lions probably needed a little something extra (I think they were uncommon or something and should have been common?  Going to check).  Elven Archers though for G1 were great, so the little something is a fine line I guess.

It appears that they were a rare and still are even by Ninth.  Savannah Lions in a pack of Ninth would have been a massive kick in the balls.

[Captain K.]

Savannah Lions were broken as hell in the original game.  They deserved their rare slot.

[Grefter]

Eh again, given unlimited resources of playing electronic magic in old sets in white decks I just don't have space for Savannah Lions.  Their value skews massively towards the casual/sealed deck tournament format.  I don't consider the benefit of being W for a 2/1 that massively huge over the power of G for a 1/1 flyer considering we are talking very early sets here where sources of flying are painful (especially for non-blue) sometimes.  Fuck, I would sooner add a Zephyr Falcon to a blue deck than a Savannah Lions to a white deck.

By Ninth Edition you are dealing with a scale of power where W for a 2/1 is insulting for a rare though.  You get so much more for even W and its fantastic weenieness by Ninth than just a 2/1.

If you want to abstract it a bit, that W is the half of the cost that gives 0/1 Protection from Black and First strike (ignoring that the second W in WW is more expensive than the first).  Now we know White Knight is a really freaking good card and it gets so much more for its extra W than Savannah Lions gets for its first point.  Part of what made White Knight really good though was the fact that it was an Uncommon.  It is strong, it is relatively cheap even still, packs a hell of a lot of bang for its buck and you are actually going to have reasonable access to them to boot.

[Bobbin Cranbud]

Eh again, given unlimited resources of playing electronic magic in old sets in white decks I just don't have space for Savannah Lions.  Their value skews massively towards the casual/sealed deck tournament format.  I don't consider the benefit of being W for a 2/1 that massively huge over the power of G for a 1/1 flyer considering we are talking very early sets here where sources of flying are painful (especially for non-blue) sometimes.  Fuck, I would sooner add a Zephyr Falcon to a blue deck than a Savannah Lions to a white deck.

By Ninth Edition you are dealing with a scale of power where W for a 2/1 is insulting for a rare though.  You get so much more for even W and its fantastic weenieness by Ninth than just a 2/1.

If you want to abstract it a bit, that W is the half of the cost that gives 0/1 Protection from Black and First strike (ignoring that the second W in WW is more expensive than the first).  Now we know White Knight is a really freaking good card and it gets so much more for its extra W than Savannah Lions gets for its first point.  Part of what made White Knight really good though was the fact that it was an Uncommon.  It is strong, it is relatively cheap even still, packs a hell of a lot of bang for its buck and you are actually going to have reasonable access to them to boot.

Gah, what?  I can hardly think of a constructed tournament white weenie deck that doesn't run 4x Savannah Lions even in the last few years, much less one back in the day when creatures as a whole were rarely costed so aggressively.  2/1 for 1 is an incredible deal, 1/2 for 1 is just sort of... meh.

Mind, Lions is kind of a BORING card to be a Rare, but it certainly deserves the slot from a power perspective.

[metroid composite]

Gah, what?  I can hardly think of a constructed tournament white weenie deck that doesn't run 4x Savannah Lions even in the last few years, much less one back in the day when creatures as a whole were rarely costed so aggressively.  2/1 for 1 is an incredible deal, 1/2 for 1 is just sort of... meh.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say, except worded better, yeah.  In fact, Savannah Lions were taken out of 10th because their power-level was high enough that it prevented WotC from printing some cards they wanted to print.

Mind, Lions is kind of a BORING card to be a Rare, but it certainly deserves the slot from a power perspective.

Actually, no, not really.  Counterspell is a common.  Terror is a common.  Kird Ape when they reprinted it was uncommon.  All of the 2-power 1-mana creatures printed in the past two years have been common or uncommon.

They want to print high-power cards at every rarity, including Common.  However, there's a caveat that they can't print common/uncommon cards if they break Limited.  A vanilla 2/1 basically can't break Limited, though, since by turn 3 or 4 that card is just going to be outclassed by the 2/3s and 3/5s that are all over the place in Limited.

The stuff that can break limited is stuff like Wrath of God, Fireball, aggressively-costed 5-mana creatures, pretty much any planeswalker ever printed, repeatable kill effects, and so on.  Basically, stuff that plans for the long game (which Savannah Lions definitely do not).

[Dark Holy Elf]

How the fuck does the new Nicol Bolas work? I've been out of touch with Magic for ages, the entire card just looks confusing to me now.

Also, generic hype for Savannah Lions being at least as strong if not stronger than White Knight (no consideration for rarity granted).

[metroid composite]

How the fuck does the new Nicol Bolas work? I've been out of touch with Magic for ages, the entire card just looks confusing to me now.

Entirely new card type (to go along with Creature/Instant/Enchantment/etc).

Short version:

Has HP like a player does.  When you attack, you declare whether each creature is attacking the player or the planeswalker.  You can use one planeswalker ability per turn played as a sorcery, and it has a corresponding HP-gain/HP-loss for the planeswalker.

Long version:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/planeswalkers/week4

Also, generic hype for Savannah Lions being at least as strong if not stronger than White Knight (no consideration for rarity granted).

Stronger in Extended/Legacy/Vintage, probably; on the other hand these are fast formats, so predispositioned towards cheaper cards.

[Xeroma]

Planeswalkers are kinda cool but I've never actually seen them played before. Admittedly, the whole TRIBES TRIBES TRIBES AND MORE TRIBES block is when my friends stopped playing magic much/I moved, so....

[Ryogo]

Towards the deck size debate, I completely agree. Large decks are for people who just like to play casually, like me. Though I DO make a decent attempt to cut down on size. I don't want a 90-100 card deck, but I don't mind going upwards to 75. Especially because I like to run a "discard cards" kind of game and often my cards have to take a hit as well.

Damn, I really want to play again now. I miss my old Dauthi Slayer + Hatred combo...
Or numerous Ravenous Rats/other discard cards with my Megrim global enchantment. Opponents must lose 2 life for every card they discard.
-Sigh- Good times...

[Grefter]

I didn't say I wouldn't run any Savannah Lions.  Just the situation where I can slip in 2 instead of all four and get something a bit better for a longer game?  Yeah I am going to take that.  The time period of Savannah Lions being useful is very short and it is a gamble to try and pull them first hand (or 2/3 draw MAYBE) where they are useful that I do not consider a great trade off in deck building.  With 2 or so in, if you pull one they are useful, if you don't well it is still a 2/1 you can throw at something.  On the other hand, flyers are pretty much second only to a pinger for chipping in the old sets. 

Also you cannot ignore the value of rarity.  The reality of the game is that it IS restricted by funding and unless someone is looking at serious tournament comp, the access of 4 of any given card is kind of out of proportion.  When you are buying a pack of cards are you going to be happier with a decently strong rare like a Shivan Dragon or are you going to be going FUCK THAT WASN'T A SAVANNAH LIONS.  Shit even something that was really under represented creaturewise like say a Zombie Master is at least an interesting rare.  W for a 2/1 is pretty comfy sitting at Uncommon.  It is a horrible rare.  Sure it is better than say pulling an Elder Land Wyrm or a Leviathan, but I would rather get you know a good interesting or generally powerful rare.

[metroid composite]

Oh snap.

(And to think: Volcanic Hammer and Shock have been tournament viable cards within the past three years or so).