Anonyrandomafia: Game over (Scum win)

[Excel]

(Nearly posted on the wrong account >.<)
It's meeeeeeeee Excel! *fanfare+fireworks*
OMG sudden death! How exciting, Lord Il Palazzo will be pleased!

I'm gonna say this quickly, I'm leaving my vote on the Queen 'cos this is a revolution! Off with her head *sharpens ax*
That do-gooder Ned is also deserving, but the Queen is full of crap!

Flanders and Khan are posting detailed and thoughtful arguments.

That's not useful, one of you has to die! You should be trying to convince us that it should be Ned - otherwise it's you that will hang. If you're a good towny then the only person you know is town is you! So you should be trying to save yourself! Telling us that Ned is towny goes against your own townyness right now because this is sudden death. You should be trying to protect yourself especially if you have a power role which can be put to good use. Supporting anything other than a Ned lynch right now shows that you aren't 100% behind your own townyness.

Not that I'm inclined to believe the casual throwaway power role claim.

Crow looks to be on the bad side of the interplay with Khan, he seems very reactivist to me.  Yangus has basically just popped Ned for being on Excel and that's it.  Definitely looks worst to me right now.  Serling's stuck to lurkers and clearing up other people's misunderstandings, which is fine and all but where's the scum hunting.  Miyagi has very low presence to me despite not technically being a lurker.  Ash is hard to follow, maybe because he slipped on anonymity a couple times, I dunno, but nothing stands out either way.

I don't agree with most of those. Difference of opinion - but it makes me want to see you hang over Ned.

Sorry it's short, just wanted to get this in before hammer hits.
Going onto Ned if I can.

[Queen Elizabeth I]

No.  Being a good townie means I want town to win.  I realize I screwed up very badly by dropping out of most of the day, and in this particular situation I think it's very possible Ned living would be much better for town than me living.  Of course I can't be 100% sure on him being town, but saying I think he's scum would be a lie.  I think he's more likely to be scum than I am, and I'm sure not going to be self-hammering, but at this point I think being honest about my opinions is the best I can do to help town.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

No, I'm not liking this at all. The air is damp in anticipation of the final blow, the alloted hour has just come to pass and yet so few now speak, even to restate their resolutions. Why should Khan be the only playing piece on the table, seen to fumble around with the knife, passing it from one hand to the other?

Of course this decision is painful to make. I effectively see it as a matter of judgment as to whether the soft role claim should be taken in kind or not. Neither death tells us anything about the other, and there's nothing to indicate that we're not just stuck up the usual first day tree.

And yet, someone needs to move. Assuming the poor set up of choosing between two innocents, with the little queen tying herself down, the loss of a power role hanging in the air and the commiseration prize on Mr. Flanders' mislynch being a solid wad of information on most of the game, I can't say that I'm unwilling to swing the balance. If only I were sure that it was such a choice between two innocents, yet I remain unconvinced by the little queen.

Ned: where are you now?

[Khan Noonian Singh]

I realize I screwed up very badly by dropping out of most of the day, and in this particular situation I think it's very possible Ned living would be much better for town than me living.

Then why show up just in time to save yourself? And if you do actually have some sort of power role, I don't know why you'd see Ned's life as being worth more than your own, short of him being another power role, and let's not go down Theory Road. Your conflicting sense of self-preservation and empathy sends off all kinds of wrong signals.

[Queen Elizabeth I]

Mod prod and fortunate circumstances, for the timing.  I can't stay around and watch this thread much longer, though.

Saying just "lol I have a role lynch Ned" would be much worse and unhelpful given what he's done in today's discussion.  Honesty's always the best policy.  If you don't see why someone good in discussion can be more valuable than a power role... I got nothin for that except to ask you to wise up.

Then again I seem to be the only person who thinks Ned was good in discussion, which has me second guessing myself again.

[Excel]

Queen Elizabeth is putting on a big charade here. If she truly believed the crap she's been saying, she'd have sumply unvoted Ned.
If she really thought another person was more towny than herself, why would she be voting for him?

This makes even less sense than me!
Elizabeth is obviously just stringing us all along, so that if she survives today she can wash her hands of it and say "well I said he was town! You guys chose to lynch him, not me, I'm a good guy!"

[Rod Serling]

Are we starting to drop posting styles? Good, this one was much more of a pain in the ass than I thought it would be and I'm pretty sure I was butchering it anyway.

Ned: You are being attacked for voting for people that did not need votes for the reasons you were providing. The rules clearly stated that not posting over a 24-hour span would result in a modkill. (The fact that this has since been debunked for now by the mod is, of course, irrelevant.) If instant mod death wasn't going to be enough of a motivator to post then they sure weren't going to be afraid of a vote or two.

What you're doing is what we in the biz like to call "active lurking". You're talking a whole bunch but saying very little, and your votes have no bite whatsoever, they're just mechanical "oh hey so-and-so isn't talking here's some motivation for them to talk" where said motivation wasn't even relevant.

Queen: I'm going after lurkers? You mean like when I voted for Ash? And yet Ned looks good to you, when he has never voted for anyone except because they were lurking (or to save his own skin, but everyone knows that's a null tell). He can talk as big a game as he wants about as many people as he wants but it doesn't mean a whole lot if it's not backed up with votes.

[Queen Elizabeth I]

..................

.... Excel, what.  Just what.

[Excel]

Reading back, the only thing I have on Ned is that he's not here right now. And that he focused on lurkers in a less than effective way.


Yep, Elizabeth is the way to go. "Hey everyone Ned is probably town, that's why I'm voting for him. You should all lynch me, even though I could lynch myself at any time I wished" - what yourself?

Elizabeth, if you really think that you should die over Ned, just unvote him. Stop talking rubbish.

[Rod Serling]

Excel, please stop trying to convince me that I was wrong when I chalked your Page 3 post up to human error.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

And as I stand here waiting for perhaps nothing other than my own mind to break, prudency calls for the covering of other topics, even if less immediately relevant.

Khan-san say Miyagi first speech 'disturbing'. Miyagi want know, "Why?" Cannot work with accusations if not laid open on table. Closed box cannot be seen inside: thus, must open box for all to see what inside. When seeking planet eaters, Miyagi thinking best we not hide thoughts from others.

You are right, or at least mostly right. I had nothing new to add what had already been said at the time, and have since glossed it over. My concerns were that you weren't even trying to see as far as my intent to end the joke phase by crystallising discussion around my own actions - not that your vote fell in my direction in the first place but that it was born of the wrong intent (I was, for instance, expecting Mr. Flanders' insecurity over my motives in doing so), and for coming down on Mr. Flanders as much as you did from refraining from joke voting, which was surely strictly better than your own response of staying completely silent until it was over.

By your second post the diversity concerned me less. My only concern with you now is the persisting low post count.

Edit: ninja'ed up the ass. Yeah, this is irrelevant to current discussion, but let me put it up anyway.

[Queen Elizabeth I]

Serling:  I meant that you've stuck to talking about the issues of lurkers and clearing up misunderstandings, not that you're voting lurkers.  You're voting ABOUT lurkers, or rather voting Ned for voting for lurkers.  I don't see why you're stuck on that issue, it just prolongs the chain of talking about lurkstuff.  Your vote for Ash was so early on and so quickly removed that I don't make anything of it.  I can see why Ned's vote's bad, obviously, but I don't see how that leads to him being scummy for it and I don't like your focus on it (and on the wording stuff).  

Excel:  You are insane.  Nobody is going to be giving me any credit for saying Ned looks townie, and rightly so.  I'm saying it just to get my honest thoughts out there.  I still think, in the end, that he should be lynched over me, though it's a pretty close call in my book.  

[Excel]

It's sudden death between Elizabeth and Ned. One of them has to die. If Elizabeth is town, the only information she has is that she is town. Therefore she should be trying to kill Ned. There is no other option!

A townsperson not doing this is acting against the only piece of information they have.

So why is Elizabeth saying "I think Ned is town, maybe I should die instead?"

I know I'm town, but I think he's town as well from reading and has and probably will be much more helpful than I am discussionwise.

I still think, in the end, that he should be lynched over me, though it's a pretty close call in my book.

Saying that you should be lynched is the most un-town thing you can do!

And the reason that I'm saying Queen's words are fluff, is because if she truly wanted Ned to survive over herself (despite being a power role), then she could make that happen at any time.

ARgh.

[Queen Elizabeth I]

I think maybe you read that sentence the wrong way around?  I think Ned should be lynched, given the situation.  Not me.

[Rod Serling]

Queen: Very large difference between voting for lurkers and voting about lurkers, m'dear. Why, specifically, do you dislike the parts of my case against Ned that you dislike? What specific parts of it are wrong? I think we're better off going in this direction.

I also don't see what the hangup is about clearing up misconceptions. Dude asked me for my opinion on Excel and I gave it. (In retrospect, it might have been wrong, but there it was nonetheless.) Death v. Crow was the same thing, except Dude's request wasn't as direct.

[Excel]

...I'm sorry. I'm a complete idiot. I don't know what to say.

[Excel]

I'm stupid and crazy. I can't apologise enough ^^;

I misread one thing that Elizabeth said, and it turns everything around. I'm intending to unvote Elizabeth, so if people want to talk, go ahead. Otherwise I shall unvote in about 15 mins.

Argh I'm such an idiot >.< that's the second time I've messed up today T_T

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Three hours on and no progress in sight I'm prepared to end this before it ends my evening.

Excel is about as helpful as an air-conditioner here.

I dislike the threat of moon-lightning as a particular case against Ned when this could be put down to simple inattention (a deadly sin in itself, of course, but then others have let that go by as well). Sidelining ongoing issues in favor of doing little else but pressure lurkers is an argument to follow (which you have), but it's a queer little artefact that you should hold on to so tightly from all of this.

As things stand, I'm willing to bite the bullet and change sides, as there's enough to at least tie the little queen down to now even if I'm not convinced by the gambit. I'll at least leave some time for final remarks, as any actual progress would be great, but this deadlock has served me nothing after the boon of dragging the little queen out in time to make a stand.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Oh, should have bothered to read that ninja. It breaks the deadlock in the same manner, so I don't care which of us does it.

[Queen Elizabeth I]

It's not that I dislike them, Rod, it's that I can't dislike them.  Which is why I dislike them.  If you get me there.  
Correcting misunderstandings is a good thing to do, but it has no real bearing on your alignment, scum can do it as well as town.
Voting on the issue of lurkers also doesn't seem to have a real bearing on your alignment.  Yes, Ned's wasting his vote on people who'll be modkilled, that makes him dumb, but does it make him scum?  It's a reason for voting him that won't draw any heat on you if he flips town, you can just shrug and say he shouldn't have been dumb.

Separately each of these is no big deal, but together it looks like you're sticking to "safe" issues and statements that you can't be directly attacked for.  You aren't sticking your neck out at all, and that's what I don't like.

[Rod Serling]

Sidelining ongoing issues in favor of doing little else but pressure lurkers is an argument to follow (which you have), but it's a queer little artefact that you should hold on to so tightly from all of this.

It's not the only thing I've seen that I'm willing to throw a vote down on; in fact, I am more likely to pursue it on Day 2 than Ned should he survive somehow. The issue is that it is irrelevant to the current situation.

Queen edit: See above, I suppose.

[Rod Serling]

Whoops, kinda switched subjects around there. My alternate case, not my Ned case, is the one I am more likely to pursue come Day 2.

Word choice indeed.

[Ash]

I've seen enough. Keeping my vote on Ned.

Queen, please keep this up tomorrow. I like what I've seen in this sudden death... don't wait until then tomorrow.

If Excel is willing to take the heat of breaking the deadlock, then I guess more power to her. Helpful in conversation? God no. But gutsy. Khan just sort of backs off after seeing Excel volunteer. Not sure how to read it.

[Excel]

Ok cool. It's been long enough, Ned hasn't showed up to defend himself, I guess he's resigned to his fate.

IL PALAZZO SAMA! PLEASE ACCEPT THIS SACRIFICE!

##UNVOTE

PS. Sorry about the misunderstanding Queen, all my fault ;-;

[Sierra]

HAMMER STOP TALKING.