Anonyrandomafia: Game over (Scum win)

[The Dude]

Man, fuck me all over the place. I'm tired and we are nowhere remotely fucking close to a consensus. At least we don't need a majority vote for an actual eventual lynch, here, since we could really use the info from a flip right about now. Well, I know I could. Not that I really want to just let it fucking sit either, though. Last minute scum vote-manipulation is a major fucking concern in a field like this.

Excel's vote seems a bit opportunistic. Lurkerish and the perfect scum placement. Really seems to be riding popular opinion. Especially something to note due to her behavior yesterday.

Agreed with Ash on that.

But then again, man, look at fucking Yangus. I've got no problem with fucking voting against me, whatever, that's fine. But to drop a fucking vote and say "I'll be back in 8 hours to explain it?" What the hell, man? Especially when... I mean, when the fuck have you ever mentioned being suspicious of me? It's like you chose a course of action but wanted to take some extra time to figure out how the fuck you were going to spin it. Would that really be a smart scum thing to do? I don't know, man. Fucking WIFOM.

I don't think anything's happened since around the time of my last post that changes my mind about who I really suspect the most, unfortunately. Miyagi's character-breaking defense... no, it just doesn't do it for me. There's just really little in the way of interesting new input from him, mostly a slew of brief defenses and about one or two sentences of analysis for the field's current players. Without including a fucking word about Ash or Crow, by the way.

Dammit, I'm fucking exhausted. Right now, if we want to rack up enough votes at least to avoid last-minute switching and sudden death shenanigans -- which can so easily be manipulated by planet eater douchebags -- my choice seems to be in either keeping my vote on Miyagi or moving over to Yangus. Both of them feel scummy, and switching my vote would make a larger margin and prevent foul play a bit better than staying... but, dammit, I want to see Yangus's argument against me before I fucking do anything. If there's some actual analytical, you know, depth to the fucking thing, which I guess would be rare from him, that could really influence how I'm feeling things out here.

Ash pulls off Khan, too. Fuck me, man, I guess you were a little right about how it wouldn't look good if you took off your vote there. The whole "I'll let you go for now, MR. SCUM!" routine definitely makes me nervous. It so easily leaves the avenue open to attack him again tomorrow. Especially when you didn't even respond very fucking specifically to his defenses, you know? You backed off without really conceding any points at all, so now you're free to sit back for a bit and see how things play out, maybe? Shit, man. So much of what you do rubs me the wrong way.

Shit. Is anyone around right now and working on or planning to make a post in the near future? I want to be around for more of this but also really fucking want to be asleep.

[Crow T. Robot]

12 hours, almost on the dot, and no justification yet. I cannot in good conscience avoid voting for Yangus unless he happens to post by the time I've fully caught up. Something about this reads Excel-stupid, but I feel that if I let another person make incredibly scummy moves and dismiss them as too-stupid-for-scum then the entire game will dissolve into smokescreens, as scum gleefully abuse the tactic.

[Crow T. Robot]

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38148#msg38148

... I'm saying who I think is townie and who I think is scummy and why.  That is what content is.

Let's compare, shall we?

Miyagi still looks good to me.  The case on him seems like people not understanding why he's doing things, but I can follow his logic pretty clearly.  I really don't get how accusing Yangus "makes him guilty of the same thing as Yangus" - the case on Yangus is that he hasn't accused anyone!

This is you on Miyagi. Compare with http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38117#msg38117

You are indeed saying who you think are scum and town. However, I have issues with how you explain 'why'. You either use arguments such as 'I understand him' / 'people don't seem to understand why he's acting the way he is'. Fine, then how about showing us? No sarcasm involved, if you get something and others don't, you are supposed to educate the rest to help the person you think is town, otherwise it all comes down to gut feelings. And if you use that to categorize everyone, then we can't discuss a thing. Evidence is nice, see the post I linked to.

In fact, I linked to it in the post immediately above yours. There, I took issues with the way you characterized the Miyagi/Yangus connection. You blatantly ignored me, however, while making it clear that you DID read it.

Saying I'm not posting content - THAT is misrepesentation, and indeed I think you are scummy for it.

Your choice of words makes it obvious you saw a very specific request for clarification from me, and merely brushed it aside without responding.

I have by now explained why I don't consider your content to be anywhere near sufficient, and would be happy to clarify more upon request. I have also touched upon "What more do you want?" in what should be very easy to understand.

So I will quote my very direct question here again:

And then, there's the misrepresentations. Now, I'm treading dangerous territory here, since the part relating to Miyagi/Yangus is not something I myself have commented on, and I could be misrepresenting those who did here. But it seemed pretty clear to me that Miyagi was going after Yangus in part for being a 'follower' rather than pushing for cases of his own, which at the same time a brief perusal of the day 1 voting patterns shows Miyagi guilty of that very thing wrt Yangus himself. I don't try to claim that everyone should instantly vote Miyagi for being horrible, irrefutable scum (though I do think the case on him has strong merit), but if one were to defend him, wouldn't it be better to actually read the actual cases people have put out instead of doing it selectively? This is merely one post that specifically addresses it: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38117#msg38117

Am I mistaken about this? Am I correct but you disagree on some grounds? Am I correct on this aspect, and if so, does it change your outlook on Miyagi? How could you possibly miss this, as several posts on Miyagi happen to touch upon this, and it would be nigh-impossible to have an informed opinion on him without reading them? Please address these concerns of mine this time.

P.S.
Yangus, the one you are voting for, has made an incredibly scummy, inexplicable move. I don't believe you could have missed it, given you responded to my post which directly addressed it, and his vote itself came just one post earlier. Comments on this?

[Crow T. Robot]

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38170#msg38170

From anyone else, I feel this post would be actionable with a vote. By the great maker, what is this? Khan had tried explaining time and time again how Excel misrepresented him (and even if that part wasn't clear, jumping him with a vote right after saying she was going to wait for a solid case this time around) and yet it did nothing. Only after he said how it started to be infuriating and patience-breaking are we finally greeted to a satisfactory explanation that 'allays her concerns'.

And back to Khan's 'comprehensive walls of text'. Was there anything in them that you found useful/took issue with, aside from a general better feeling that made you unvote him? Here you are, telling us you struggled through his arguments (which you told us and the mod were more than sufficient to modkill Khan over extended length) and ended up with not a single specific comment on them?

The Yangus vote at that time was incredibly lazy and easy and all that people have said already. There was more than enough time between his stated return and the deadline. I happen to think it fits into a general pattern of your votes all game.

A related point. I think it's incredibly bizarre to lay on a vote that literally comes out of nowhere and leave for X hours. However, there's a difference between voting right then and there, and intending to do so four hours after that stated time of return and explanation, while the deadline is far closer by now. At the first point, Yangus's act is almost too bizarre and attention-focusing to actually be instantly scummy; there are, after all, possible reasons for a vote out of nowhere, and Yangus might have worried that upon returning in ~8 hours one of the others would already get lynched or a train would be very difficult to divert (possibly one on himself, at that). At the second point in time, however, the silence is beginning to be quite troubling.

[Crow T. Robot]

It is so difficult to be voting alongside all three people who I believe are incredibly scummy.

##Unvote: Mr. Miyagi
##Vote: Yangus

Yangus is hereby placed at -1.

Yangus, if there was a point to what you did, and a reason you broke your word to return in time to lay out your case, you have till our deadline to convince me to switch back.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

I don't like what's going on. I don't like having to find innocence in treachery rather than the other way around as history would normally assert.

I do not like:

1) Mr. Ash hanging without a vote. I mean, I can see the threads leading to it, and Mr. Yangus's actions justify the caution, but I don't like the look that he's not weighing either way. What's that, Mr. Yangus needs to explain? No mention of Mr. Miyagi at all? What's stopping him just choosing either side as he sees fit later? Plus points back on the Mr. Ash / Mr. Yangus theory.

2) Mr. Yangus's actions. Not even as traitorous. I just don't understand them. Except the aforementioned benefit to Mr. Ash, I can't get my head around the traitorous angle. I mean sure, the content that's getting lower as time goes on is a fairly easy concept to get behind, but painting a giant bullseye on yourself? Hoping to get people to waste 8+ hours waiting for your return? Confusion? It sure wasn't a helpful move, but I can't see how it helps him if he's a traitor given that people are going to vote for him anyway, and have.

3) The votes on Mr. Yangus. What's that, it's Mr. Miyagi and the lovely ladies who mysteriously support him without much substance? This looks way more like a traitorous push than that on Mr. Miyagi. What's worse is that at least one of them isn't a traitor. Miss Excel's move was of particularly concerningly low content (more in terms of little reference to anyone else).

4) Mr. Miyagi's absence. You see, this I get. I mean, it hasn't been all that long, but after Mr. Yangus shows up and draws all eyes to him, that's a really nice time to be coasting if you're a traitor taking heat. Still hoping for more, but it does fit the traitor-Miyagi build perfectly.

I thus feel that of the two, it's more comfortable to go with, in the words of Oscar Wilde, "##UNVOTE: Ash, ##VOTE: Mr. Miyagi'

Likely scum pairs as I currently see it, top down:
Mr. Miyagi / Miss Excel
Mr. Ash / Mr. Yangus
Mr. Miyagi / little queen
And then I'm into weirder things like Mr. Ash / Miss Excel that I haven't looked into well.


Edit: oh man, tin man, what timing. You did say it was coming, I guess. Let me get this out first.

[Crow T. Robot]

Just as I can see a possible reason to do what Yangus did and be town (I touched upon that in an earlier post), I also see one for doing it as scum. Not only does it provide a smokescreen almost all the way till deadline, or also gives some a way to coast/'wait on answers' without actually doing a thing. But why? If Yangus was in Death's situation, and knew he wouldn't be able to stick around much longer, and thus was sacrificed to divert attention from his partner/try to hand said partner some cred to win the game. (I think it would be the Queen, if this case were to be true)

In light of that, I can't let it go. If we mislynch today and go into LYLO, and such blatantly scummy behavior goes unpunished, LYLO would be filled with people making seemingly-random moves, no explanations being provided whatsoever, lurking in the scummy sense and much more. If that happens, I might as well give up now.

I just don't know, and I want to hear from pretty much everyone, especially from those whom I pressed for answers, so we would have something for tomorrow regardless of my survival.

Still think the Queen is scummiest of the lot. From official votecounts, she's been the first vote both on Ned day 1, and here. I don't know if that means anything. If there's any chance whatsoever that others are around and would be willing to vote for her, it's a switch I would make easily myself due to her lurking of the bad kind and low content and misrepresentations/evasions/cases that are just plain dubious.

[Sierra]

Current votecount:

Ash (0): Khan
Khan (0): Mr. Miyagi, Ash, Excel
Mr. Miyagi (2): The Dude, Crow T. Robot, Khan
Queen Elizabeth (0): Crow T. Robot
The Dude (1): Yangus
Yangus (4): Queen Elizabeth, Mr. Miyagi, Excel, Crow T. Robot

There are roughly 1.25 hours remaining.

With eight alive it takes five to lynch.

Note: Yangus is -1 to hammer.

[The Dude]

Good morning, sunshines. I kind of expected a lot more from people by now. Shit, man.

Far as Yangus goes, I actually think his disappearance makes me believe his town-ness a bit more, if only because I can't see a reason for scum to disa-fucking-ppear like that when they were already leading on the way to the gallows. Then again, both town and scum can easily get called away unexpectedly and end up doing something like this accidentally, so it's probably a null read. And he's looked scummy to me for a while anyway, so I guess this is no great shakes. Definitely don't feel the need to hammer him right now, though. Maybe he'll show up in the next hour? Or... anyone else will? This has not really been the most robust fucking discussion, you know?

Shit I don't like, at this point? The lack of Mr. Miyagi since his character-breaking post, for one. I still think the guy's a planet eater, myself. And also? Ash hasn't fucking re-voted! He... he fucking came off Khan at a time during which I feel like he could've pushed the lynch in a couple different directions, but instead he doesn't do fucking anything. He didn't even take a particularly firm stance on anyone in his most recent post, making it pretty fucking easy for him to beg off schedule issues at the beginning of Day 3 and say he would have voted for 'x' where 'x' is whoever might seem the scummiest based on the two flips we're likely to get.

I'm also seeing the case against Elizabeth more than I had closer to the end of Day 1, now. Not a lot of original content at all, and the pass she gives to Miyagi irks me given my own feelings about the man.

Khan's potential scum pairings make some sense to me.

Anyone else gonna be around, I wonder?

[Khan Noonian Singh]

With food dealt with, I return. I shall now mostly be around until the deadline.

Okay, if Mr. Yangus isn't even going to try and save himself, then yes, there's value in being a foil. I did not give merit to this option, as I had been looking at it from the angle of a Mr. Ash / Mr. Yangus pair with the latter coming up and giving the former sufficient rationale to justify voting for Mr. Miyagi, and had not even considered the possibility of the latter just imploding (which I don't think lends well to a Mr. Ash / Mr. Yangus pair given that even if Mr. Ash votes for Mr. Yangus it won't gain him much in the way of credibility).

It's not that I am strictly opposed to his lynching, it's more that there are way too many people that I could say the same about and want to either pick out the innocent from the pack or be far more certain of the person I'm after. Mr. Yangus is utterly perplexing, and I hope beyond hope that he will yet show up to explain himself, but what exactly would clear him to people? I don't know, I can't support him in and of himself (and don't, he's simply superceded), as even if he is innocent then it really has hurt us, but I find the material on the other case to be far more compelling as a traitorous push. I'm not really sure what else I can say to you if you didn't already buy into that angle.

I can't say I've entertained the possibility of a Mr. Yangus / little queen pairing very strongly, but I'll at least give it some thought.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Anyone else gonna be around, I wonder?

I'll be frustrated if any of Mr. Yangus, Mr. Ash and Mr. Miyagi don't show up in what little time we have left, so I'm trying to clear myself fully in case the next hour suddenly turns into a fast-thinking bloodbath in the case that they all do.

[The Dude]

Yeah. I definitely fucking get your feelings on Yangus right now, especially given the caliber of most of the folks voting for him. Brain says scummy, gut says weirdly townie in a way that might just come from wanting to second-guess every fucking thing I say and do.

I'm still not sure that we can rule out Ash / Mr. Miyagi, man. I know they both came out swinging today on you, which doesn't seem like the typical scum tac at all, but... well, shit, they're both scummy without having gone after each other strongly, so I can still see that opening move as a risky gambit. I've mentioned that and all, but I thought it bore repeating since we're talking about pairing people up again.

Ninja'd. Yeah, can't hurt to keep talking a little for the time being.

[Crow T. Robot]

I... suppose I could tie things up to go into sudden death if there was a reasonable chance the people I want answers from would appear and give them. Miyagi was my previous target and I don't like him much either, so I don't feel like I would be betraying my principles doing so.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

I would have expected him to be more strongly on Mr. Yangus when he took his vote off of me if that was the case. He's sure not going to get credibility if Mr. Miyagi goes down. I suppose it still looks safer given that other people look more likely to be his pair than Mr. Ash?

I can't say I can rule it out (nor much else at this point, honestly), but I still don't feel the chemistry. It's too softly softly.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

I'm not sure. That would place the deciding vote fairly squarely with Mr. Ash or Mr. Yangus, since it's not nearly as tied together as the first day was.

[Crow T. Robot]

I do wonder whether Miyagi and Yangus are scum together, and as the latter was about to self-destruct anyway he tried to draw the lynch away from Miyagi. The frustration is so strong, with people outright lurking and then snapping back when called on said lurking to boot.

Edit for Khan: it would be 3/3 if I revoted Miyagi, but I do see the point. Still, wouldn't it be better if Ash were forced to be the decisive vote instead of leaving it to others? And Yangus returning is something I'd like to see myself as it is.

[Sierra]

Mod's note: There are ten minutes until the deadline.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Miyagi return, apologize for prolonged absense. Simply have need for sleep and do other thing.

Miyagi suddenly see case for Yangus-san be agree with, but most that have join Yangus-san bandwagon only for his latest action, they cite, and not for his previous actions. Argue he may be try pull lynch away from me: Maybe, but to what merit?

If he lynches today and is scum, is next step not lynch Miyagi? For he protect Miyagi then by do so odd? Miyagi cannot understand what merit scum would have for protect Miyagi.

Miyagi want know now that others jump off Khan-san as well. Miyagi still suspicious for not voting Khan-san anymore? Miyagi still need good looking at for believe Khan-san not that terrible and need not be lynch?

More in minute, need time to read everything before deadline.

[The Dude]

Yeah, I can't decide if I would be happier or more frustrated to make Ash break a tie in that case. It would make him take a stand, but it would also put the decision in the hands of somebody I don't really fucking trust.

Not to mention how much I think sudden death for umpteen hours kills momentum, I think. Flips really inject some new invigoration to a game, has been my experience, and we're dealing with enough semi-lurkering and monomania that we might not want to drag this out interminably.

Ninja'd by Miyagi's reappearance. Yaaaay last-minute shenanigans.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

No, you're probably right. More information is what we really need. It's just unsettling to weigh the lynch like that when we can't stop the vote. Worst case I can see is if Mr. Yangus is playing the foil and makes no attempt to hide this by dropping in to vote Mr. Miyagi, assuming the latter is innocent. Worse still if he does it convincingly enough to not be the instant lynch tomorrow.

Short story: I think it is for the best, but paranoia sees all possibilities.


Edit: oh, should have known that it'd get hectic now.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Dead-line ninja Miyagi.

Miyagi now writing thoughts to notepad, will post them when new day arrive unless someone make sudden death.

[Excel]

Excel is here, but would like to continue with the Yangus vote as it stands.

[Crow T. Robot]

##Unvote: Yangus
##Vote: Mr. Miyagi

I hate second-guessing myself. But screw that, meta suggests this is just the time Ash and Excel are around, and I'll prolong my suffering so that I could hear from them, and give Miyagi time to post. Ironic, yes, that I do this by voting him.

Miyagi, may your post address my concerns from previous posts towards you.

Edit for Excel. Duly noted. Please respond to my concerns re; you as we now have the time for it.

[The Dude]

Man, I fucking hate sudden death. But yeah, alright, let's hear from everyone.

[Sierra]

Current votecount:

Ash (0): Khan
Khan (0): Mr. Miyagi, Ash, Excel
Mr. Miyagi (3): The Dude, Crow T. Robot, Khan, Crow T. Robot
Queen Elizabeth (0): Crow T. Robot
The Dude (1): Yangus
Yangus (3): Queen Elizabeth, Mr. Miyagi, Excel, Crow T. Robot

We are now in sudden death. Any vote or unvote to Mr. Miyagi or Yangus will end the day.