Anonyrandomafia: Game over (Scum win)

[Crow T. Robot]

We lose upon parity.

I also don't think Miyagi quite answered my concerns in this post: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38072#msg38072

Another thing Miyagi doesn't address is actually a request from Ash to drop the flavor, and though it's not some scumtell, I do have to wonder why he wouldn't even comment on it either way, given that Ash and The Dude, now, have both commented on it directly.

Also, a request from people who are not Khan to comment on Lizzie and her dubious existence and content. She's not the only one I would be comfortable voting for today, but the actual lack of commenting on her just bothers me. I see her content as less than that from Yangus and Miyagi, so why do they have votes while I'm the only one on Lizzie?

[Ash]

Alright, now, I’m not fucking fantastic at math, as if you couldn’t guess, but how would 3 scum put us in LYLO right now? There’s eight of us, so assuming we lynch one of the good guys and then the planet eaters get off a successful nightkill, doesn’t that put us at 3-town/3-scum? You know, not enough for the scum to lynch on their own? When Khan first mentioned that we’re assured right now of having two scum I just assumed someone would correct him, but now Ash is going “oh hey man yeah good thinking must be two scum.” Does somebody feel like correcting my math? Or… is Ash’s eagerness to present the idea of a merely two-scum situation as potentially scummy as I think it might fucking be?

Looking over things. More to come this afternoon some time.

3/3 is an impasse. All scum have to do is not vote themselves and it's effectively a tie, which is usually goes to scum. It's how Incompetent Mafia ended. Came down to two town and two scum. And 3 scum doesn't put us at LYLO, it puts us at potential LYLO. It would depend on the nightkill, which you've noted.

I made the same mistake at the end of Incompetent Mafia that a 2/2 split would keep the game going.

Miyagi's switch onto Yangus worries me. Not because I don't think Yangus is scummy, but because it switches from a person he has a good argument for to someone he has a generic lurker argument for. Comment, Miyagi?

[The Dude]

3/3 is an impasse. All scum have to do is not vote themselves and it's effectively a tie, which is usually goes to scum. It's how Incompetent Mafia ended. Came down to two town and two scum. And 3 scum doesn't put us at LYLO, it puts us at potential LYLO. It would depend on the nightkill, which you've noted.

I made the same mistake at the end of Incompetent Mafia that a 2/2 split would keep the game going.

... huh. Yeah, well... okay. Fuck my head, I hadn't thought about it this way. Thanks (and thanks to Crow) for straightening me out. Two scum makes things... interesting. Definitely a change to the fucking, you know, the fucking premises of some of my thought here.

Miyagi's switch onto Yangus worries me. Not because I don't think Yangus is scummy, but because it switches from a person he has a good argument for to someone he has a generic lurker argument for. Comment, Miyagi?

Yeah. Yeah, this hits pretty fucking precisely on why I'm still not comfy-cozy with the jap. He opens the day with a relatively fucking detailed and complex argument against Khan, defends it when Crow and I submit our concerns, and then... after Khan's own response, retracts the vote very quietly and moves on to Yangus. And I feel like a fucking load of us have expressed at least mild or tacit concern with that particular limey asshole, so the venture seems a lot safer than his thrust against Khan. Thanks for helping me to kick my mind grapes into gear, Ash.

Time to plug through the Excel/Khan bullshit, I guess.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

there is no comparison to Mr. Flanders as to why he is the superior target, which is symbolised most beautifully in the lack of the revote.

It's most ironic indeed to hear this coming from Khan Noonian Singh, but this dogged persistence is most trying. At least I can hold Captain James T. Kirk to judgment for marooning my men and I in a hostile environment and being responsible for the death of several of my followers and my beloved wife. It's not like this vendetta ensued from this one time where he may or may not have implied that my hair looked unkempt.

So another speech passes where I clarify the position and am willing to be far too benevolent in letting it pass under the bridge as a misunderstanding, and all I get in return is stubborn unrelenting persistence from Miss Excel.

Okay, so apparently clarity does me no good if the shiny distraction is there in any form:

there is no comparison to Mr. Flanders as to why he is the superior target, which is symbolised most beautifully in the lack of the revote.

Emphasis in the wrong place to suit your tunnelling. Try it this way:

there is no comparison to Mr. Flanders as to why he is the superior target, which is symbolised most beautifully in the lack of the revote.

I only mentioned it at all in that post to explain why it appeared in my post to begin with. But no, you take it as a repeated insistence on the direct relevance.

Let me try one last time with no waving the shiny coin of gold. In sudden death, you at no point (bar the initial one-liner) made reference to Mr. Flanders outside of reflection of the little queen's stances, a matter that's rather important in choosing between the two, and had in fact never referred to Mr. Flanders before, either. Now I've never claimed that this directly implicated you of anything, as I did at the time call it 'incredibly minorly' concerning, and you've at least somewhat offered an explanation for it since, but would you really try and tell me that the omission from discussion is entirely unremarkable?

Now I've been kind as I can be on this. I can see the confusion in the original post, especially when you chose to stop reading it half way through and (somehow) got muddled up over what 'incredibly minorly concerned' might mean. But I've now clarified it in every useful angle I can think of, and if you're still gnashing at my heels for this point and basically only this point (if you are going to keep your vote on me, offer more than that mess) after this post then this tunnel-vision will cross any reasonable boundary of believability.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Mr. Miyagi, please throw us a bone here. Your serial monomania continues and would be a really easy cover for making the smallest personal progress in the longest possible time. Can we please hear your thoughts on other players, even if it's just a big thumbs up? Do you think Miss Excel is dumb or dangerous? Anything on the little queen since she actually started posting? Come on, anything. You've still told us nothing of most people.

Miyagi also noting Yangus-san only voting Serling as jokes, then Elizabeth when people looking Elizabeth, then Ned when people on Ned train. Only has vote in solid case.

And this would be far more convincing coming from someone else, and is not to be disregarded in and of itself just because it came from you. But from you? Your first day's votes were on myself (semi-serious at best?), the little queen and Mr. Flanders, and in both the latter cases you followed him. How are you not strictly worse in this regard?

I will grant you more ground for today in comparison to him, but outside of this comparison you've still made very slow progress with anything yourself.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Before the possibility is entirely forgotten (as it had evaded me), whilst I cannot see my way beyond there being exactly two traitors, there remains the possibility of a third party. Unlikely (would 'survivor' need to be listed in the Moon Bible?), but not beyond the realms of possibility. Just before we set any long-term plan in concrete.

[The Dude]

Alright. Pretty much everything I read of Khan makes me think more and more that he's one of us. There's a lot of thought, a lot of different avenues explored, and even a pretty solid specific argument (which part of me definitely buys, on a gut level if nothing else) now against Ash. The only thing to happen today that seems off is his distinction between Excel unvoting the Queen and re-voting Flanders, but...

... frankly, Excel's fucking reciprocal OMGUS vote looks uglier. And call me fucking nuts, but I see a subtle distinction myself between Khan's earlier mod-inquiry about lurking and Excel's current one about post limits. Excel's seems a shit load more pointed and aggressive. But I don't know, because I also don't think I see Excel as scum right now.

I just fucking noticed that Yangus is the only one of us currently not using his vote. And... yeah, it's getting to be that fucking time in which not having voted -- in which still playing it as fucking safe as he is -- doesn't look all that cool.

I'm also not sure if I feel like Ash's response to all of Khan's posting in the past couple pages strikes me as... well, fucking adequate, given the fact that his vote's still sitting on Khan. His staying on Khan seems a little stubborn, in a way that looks to me like a planet eater happy to stay on a train that's growing faster than any other... except now, Miyagi's jumped off Khan to Yangus. And Ash continues to be anti-Khan by way of being anti-Miyagi in this fucking situation, citing how great Miyagi's argument against Khan was.

I'll also say -- and I know that it flies in the fucking face of this game's premise, but I'll play with the cards I've been dealt, man -- that Sopko-Ash is acting in a manner that's eerily fucking reminiscent of the behavior with which I've seen him play scum. Curt, and dismissive in a way that's a little fucking rude sometimes. I'm not gonna put too much stock in this just yet, but my gut's trying to tell me something and I can't ignore it completely.

Man, fuck this. Ash and Miyagi both seem scummy to me in ways I can't easily fucking reconcile if they're partners. At the beginning of the day I entertained the thought that they were scumbuddies using a risky but, you know, potentially fucking profitable simultaneous attack gambit. Could still be the case, though, I guess. It's not like Ash has been particularly fucking vociferous with his recent Miyagi suspicions.

A Miyagi-Yangus pairing looks less likely to me too, now. Man, fuck me, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this.

And for some reason I'm having trouble getting a more detailed read on Crow than "huh, yeah, looks kinda like town," or on the Queen at all. Fuckin' A.

Ninja'd by Khan. I... fuck me, can't believe I didn't notice Miyagi's condemnation of Yangus being for something that he... fucking, you know, basically copied Yangus in doing. Alright, I feel more and more like Miyagi and Ash might be a probably team of planet eater dickheads.

[Mr. Miyagi]

DROPPING CHARACTER FOR A POST DO NOT EXPECT ME TO DO THIS ON A REGULAR BASIS BECAUSE I LIKE PLAYING IN CHARACTER OKAY?

I haven't commented on the things I haven't commented on because I don't think I need to. They're minor things to me that I cannot say much more on than, "well, I felt like it". Elizabeth wasn't that alarming to begin with and I was pushing for her to speak up, not to get her lynched. I disagreed with the people who presented her as being the "best case", especially if she were to speak up and get it sorted out and give me the answers I asked for.

My problem with Ned, again, was that he blatantly ignored anything that occured that day to tunnel-vision-home-in on lurkers. The few times he did comment on it felt forced and insufficient.

Queen Elizabeth doesn't really look all that scummy to me. Sure, she flailed, but she's recovered and is overshadowed by my current case of Yangus.

My case on Khan wasn't that complicated or complex. Freaking hell guys, I attacked him for posting a lot during SUDDEN DEATH without actually saying something and for going all "I find myself convinced by" without formulating his own stance. I couldn't see it in there anyway. When he posted actual content later on I was satisfied with his explanation and moved on to who I felt is more scummy.

I'm not strictly worse than Yangus in that aspect, but I've consistently tried to point at whoever I felt is scum and direct attention to the people I believe deserve attention, especially by going through with my words and voting on them, whereas Yangus has not done the same. Rather, he has not even commented on any particular case today. Combined with his behaviour from the previous day I feel I have a pretty good reason to see him lynched, because I am getting various sorts of "Might be scum but could be town" reads from everyone else.

I feel slightly bad about The Dude, for reasons I cannot explain. Khan still worries me, but not to the extend that I will push for his lynch barring any further actions on his behalf that raise him on the scum-o-dar. Excel is a motormouth and started as an idiot, but recovered. Her idiocy seems controlled, though, so part of me wants to experimentally lynch her on suspicion that someone's advising her on her actions.

Miyagi now going back in character.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Tin man, I find there to be simply too many people on the field. Whilst I ignore no one, I find myself strongly doubting several where necessarily some must be innocent. The little queen thus finds her place by right of being less immediately worrying than the others (although again yes, it was wrong of me to place her as your better). Mr. Ash by my previous counts. Mr. Miyagi by such slow progress on so few people. Mr. Yangus grows worse by dilution. Miss Excel defies the senses. So no, the little queen does not so readily draw the eye as it might, as I can't say I spotted anything outstandingly naughty in her speech today.

Might I ask why you're withholding judgment on Miss Excel?

You have offered much to my inquiries, so I shall return in kind on the matter of the little queen. I'm sorry that I haven't done it now like I said I would (I tried starting, but it's taken me what, like quarter of an hour to get to the second small point, so I'm clearly going nowhere while I'm still here), but I'll make it my first port of call on my return later. A full (but short) review from the start to now to. I also need to reply to Mr. Ash.

Edit: what, two ninjas. Yeah,  I really am making too slow progress here.

[Crow T. Robot]

Okay. I just see more problems with Miyagi at this point, and am thus changing my vote.

##Unvote: Queen Elizabeth
##Vote: Mr. Miyagi

- I don't buy his explanation on Elizabeth.
- I don't see how not commenting enough (Flanders) is worse than commenting even less (Lizzie).
- I don't feel like he had addressed my concerns.
- In fact, after being specifically asked to comment on everyone, Miyagi left me and Ash out inexplicably. That Ash was the first and the most vocal to prod him to drop the flavor while I kept on hounding him for answers (to questions which weren't even that complicated, I thought)... is it coincidence? I don't know, but I don't like it.
- That post he ends with 'waiting on Khan to respond'. Why would you wait on someone you have good reason to believe isn't around rather than create more discussion or look elsewhere in the meantime? It sounds like a good way to skirt and rubs me the wrong way.
- There's more from others, but I prefer to have my own arguments unless I happen to know the alignment of the person making them. And maybe not even then, if it's someone like Excel.

I still have grave doubts about Lizzie, but frustratingly no one shares them. I can do nothing more but actually use my vote rather than risk having it go to waste.

Edit for Khan. Originally I withheld it simply because I've made too many posts and didn't want to spam overmuch. I also saw people far more deserving of my attention. Incidentally, Miyagi wasn't in my diagram, as I believe you called it, simply because I felt unsure of him and that it warranted a second look (I started that in my follow up post). I do not like his behavior, and he has thus risen to the Queen/Excel level. Again, as his case lacks traces of WIFOM, I prefer it to Excel's. It particularly frustrates that three people look seriously scummy to me right now and only two of them can actually be scum if the rules are as stated.

[Ash]

I'm also not sure if I feel like Ash's response to all of Khan's posting in the past couple pages strikes me as... well, fucking adequate, given the fact that his vote's still sitting on Khan. His staying on Khan seems a little stubborn, in a way that looks to me like a planet eater happy to stay on a train that's growing faster than any other... except now, Miyagi's jumped off Khan to Yangus. And Ash continues to be anti-Khan by way of being anti-Miyagi in this fucking situation, citing how great Miyagi's argument against Khan was.

I'll also say -- and I know that it flies in the fucking face of this game's premise, but I'll play with the cards I've been dealt, man -- that Sopko-Ash is acting in a manner that's eerily fucking reminiscent of the behavior with which I've seen him play scum. Curt, and dismissive in a way that's a little fucking rude sometimes. I'm not gonna put too much stock in this just yet, but my gut's trying to tell me something and I can't ignore it completely.

Man, fuck this. Ash and Miyagi both seem scummy to me in ways I can't easily fucking reconcile if they're partners. At the beginning of the day I entertained the thought that they were scumbuddies using a risky but, you know, potentially fucking profitable simultaneous attack gambit. Could still be the case, though, I guess. It's not like Ash has been particularly fucking vociferous with his recent Miyagi suspicions.

O...kay. I'll tackle this in order.

It's treading WIFOMy territory to defend here, but I'll do it anyway. So if I jumped off Khan everything would be square? I wouldn't be called for jumping off someone I was pursuing strongly? Is it better if I jumped onto another train? I posted all of once after Miyagi jumped from Khan to Yangus, and whats more, you 100% agreed with me. Turning your opinion around is one thing, but turning around and putting words in my mouth, especially after you'd just been agreeing with me, is another.

Miyagi's argument for Khan was more thought out than his generic case against Yangus. I wasn't trying to say it was the greatest case in the world, but it was still more substantive than the one on Yangus. As for not being particularly vocal about the Miyagi suspicions... I just started getting suspicious of him in my last post, and I wouldn't even put it that far. I noted "Hey, this switch seems off", which you then agreed on, Dude. I haven't even posted anything since then to really claim that I'm not going after him hard enough.

I kinda fell into the metagaming trap when I blew my anonymity, so I can't really blame you. I honestly can't really say this is a scum move. I think we're deadlocked and you're starting to second guess yourself, I think.

[Yangus]

Oi, just postin' to say that I'm 'ere now, and givin' things a bit of a look.  As for why I'm takin' so long, well...  I was lookin' over that Liz skirts posts, and...  there's a lotta things that all say she should be scum, but something don't quite add up right.  Suspect it's the way she's frustrated over that Flanders bloke that does it.  So's, I'm lookin' at the other things she's up an' said, to see if any of it fits, and looking at a few others that tickle me nose the wrong way while I'm at it.

That Miyagi bloke is top of the list, and I'll see who else follows 'im.

[Yangus]

A few words for a man of few words.  And since he likes quotin' so much, I figger that's as good a way to start as any.

Miyagi also noting Yangus-san only voting Serling as jokes, then Elizabeth when people looking Elizabeth, then Ned when people on Ned train. Only has vote in solid case. Not pursue case of his own much, but join bandwagon.

Final votecount for day one:

Ash (0): Rod Serling
Crow (1): The Dude, Khan, Death
Death (0): Khan, Crow T. Robot, Ash
Excel (0): Queen Elizabeth, Ned Flanders, Ash
Khan (0): Rod Serling, Mr. Miyagi
Mr. Miyagi (0): Excel, Ned Flanders
Ned Flanders (5): Queen Elizabeth, Rod Serling, Yangus, Mr. Miyagi, Ash
Queen Elizabeth (4): Death, The Dude, Yangus, Mr. Miyagi, Excel, Crow T. Robot, Ned Flanders, Khan
Rod Serling (0): Yangus
The Dude (0): Crow. T. Robot
Yangus (0): Ash
[/quote]

The only thing showin' you to be any bolder than me, mate, is you goin' after that Khan bloke earlier today, and even that you've backed out of so far.

Since I've got that up, there's one other thing I've noticed that's naggin' me in the back o' me 'ead.  Liz 'as the votes o' everyone that day except for Serling, Ash, and 'erself.  Not entirely sure wot that means as of yet, but I think there's something to it.

[Sierra]

Current votecount:

Ash (1): Khan
Khan (2): Mr. Miyagi, Ash, Excel
Mr. Miyagi (2): The Dude, Crow T. Robot
Queen Elizabeth (0): Crow T. Robot
Yangus (2): Queen Elizabeth, Mr. Miyagi

There are roughly 16.5 hours remaining.

With eight alive it takes five to lynch.

[Queen Elizabeth I]

Here again, posting again, and still not seeing much change.  Yangus still hasn't said anything useful, made any cases or voted for anyone. 

Miyagi still looks good to me.  The case on him seems like people not understanding why he's doing things, but I can follow his logic pretty clearly.  I really don't get how accusing Yangus "makes him guilty of the same thing as Yangus" - the case on Yangus is that he hasn't accused anyone!

Crow asks for partners?  Yangus and himself seem most likely.  Death's behavior?  No, I don't think it was scummy.  There's lurking posting nothing of content (Yangus is doing this), which is scummy, and then there's just not being around altogether, which as we have seen in practically every Mafia game here can and does happen with both scum and town alike. 

The Khan/Dude/Ash stuff... Khan and Dude's arguments look coherent, but then again as Ash recently pointed out they're catch-22s that make him scummy for staying with his case.  I honestly don't know what way to go on that.  If anything all three of them look a little better to me.

[Yangus]

I need to go.  Got interrupted so I couldn't finish building my case, so...  I'll just leave this vote and hope I'm right on this.  Will be back in around 8 hours.

##Vote: Dude

[Crow T. Robot]

So, so annoyed. Particularly that no one thinks Lizzie is scummy with the way she acts. Like here.

Yes, of course the person going after you the most would seem scummy to you. Right. Aside from seeming antagonistic to you, as I believe you called me in a previous post, what is the actual basis for seeing me as scummy? Really, is there anything at all? Because it would be nice if your meager posts had something beyond 'I understand this person' or 'I don't think he looks scummy' with no real basis behind them for us to try and follow.

And then, there's the misrepresentations. Now, I'm treading dangerous territory here, since the part relating to Miyagi/Yangus is not something I myself have commented on, and I could be misrepresenting those who did here. But it seemed pretty clear to me that Miyagi was going after Yangus in part for being a 'follower' rather than pushing for cases of his own, which at the same time a brief perusal of the day 1 voting patterns shows Miyagi guilty of that very thing wrt Yangus himself. I don't try to claim that everyone should instantly vote Miyagi for being horrible, irrefutable scum (though I do think the case on him has strong merit), but if one were to defend him, wouldn't it be better to actually read the actual cases people have put out instead of doing it selectively? This is merely one post that specifically addresses it: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38117#msg38117

On Death and you and scummy lurking. Lurking and posting nothing of content is something I can see Yangus being accused of. Incidentally, I don't see that much more content from Miyagi, comparatively, who looks 'good' to you opposed Yangus. But you are still a far greater abuser of this. Showing up infrequently with an attitude of 'I'm busy and I can't be bothered to be around much' and not actually telling us much in those few posts you do make is precisely textbook scummy lurking. Death's posts were similarly lacking in any serious content. I also made it pretty clear this was the lurking in question, and not the Excel kind of disappearing past a deadline.

Edit: And just got blindsided by Yangus. Oh, the hate. Miyagi is at the top of your list, Miyagi in the follow up post... The Dude gets voted on with a oneliner. That doesn't include the reason. What. Seriously, what. I can't even see a mention of him in your entire post history aside from a single referral to him which had no case or thoughts on The Dude attached to it.

I will be back before deadline, and there better be an actual reason for this by then. Just... what.

[Queen Elizabeth I]

... I'm saying who I think is townie and who I think is scummy and why.  That is what content is.  I'm posting it, Yangus isn't.  I AM busy, I can't be around too much, but I'm putting out everything I can here.  What more do you want?  Rhetorical question, since I have the feeling that no matter what I post you'd call it lack of content and fall back on me not being around day 1.  Saying I'm not posting content - THAT is misrepesentation, and indeed I think you are scummy for it.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is turning into a wreck. I'll get to that, but I did promise the tin man that I would talk about the little queen, so I shall keep to my word and task myself with that first.

Day one before sudden death - skipped. I think we're all agreed on why she ended up on the chopping block, right? (That's not the same as all agreeing that she was most deserving, which we don't/didn't)

Sudden death - honest enough. I know that traitors can be polite, diplomatic and all that, but my gut got around to weighing the odds in her favor then and I still can't pick out anything disagreeable other than the soft role claim itself, which now essentially seems unresolvablle either way.

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg37999#msg37999 - a few weird flips of judgment overnight. I take a dive in opinion and Mr. Miyagi flies up. Understandable given the pace of catching up at the end of day 1, I'd grant. I can no longer fault a case on Mr. Yangus, but I don't get this Mr. Miyagi thing at all. 'Consistently solid posts and arguments' what. I called it at the time, albeit not very loudly. And while I can see her 'rigid list' point on you, it doesn't apply there (if the list was immuted by however many actions afterwards then yes, but you'd made your points and nothing had changed in the meantime).

... and oh, that's all she said by the time you first asked me. Okay, less than I remembered. But even then, I can't see that as being less content than several others. The most worrying part is being on the fence for both "The Dude" and myself, as I dislike the sort of stance that can flip later to justify the course that things have taken (I say, even with what is effectively a split opinion on the little queen). I still really, really can't see the Miss Excel / little queen partnership that you're worrying over.

I dislike http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38074#msg38074 for the analogy to the foul fiend Death, and for not bothering to address the new post from Mr. Yangus despite complaining nothing new to flog him with.

By the end the observations do seem to have worn a little thin. By this point I can't see her hold over you, and still don't get the Mr. Miyagi support.

I don't know, I'd say it's worth pressing to get more information out, especially on her vendetta on you, which is the one thing that does stick out as odd. Then again, I'm looking at worse from like half the game.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Okay, so rather than trying to pick out the traitors among us, I'm having a harder time trying to find the innocents.

Mr. Ash and his tackling me hard for strange reasons.

Mr. Miyagi and his slow-paced serial monomania that doesn't interact with half the game.

Miss Excel for plain continuing to be.

Mr. Yangus for diluting into nothing and then confusing the hell out of me by making a queer vote with no immediate justification.

What bothers me most about this is that (short of third parties) at least two of the above are innocents, and I find it hard to pick between them. Why are innocents acting so strangely?

Mr. Yangus at least makes it easy for me. I'm going to sleep on that one and see what comes of his argument on "The Dude" when I wake, plenty of time before the deadline. Otherwise yes, the dwindling content just works worse with time.

Miss Excel leaps out as the most likely to forgive yet again for just being odd, which is worrying when we're three-quarters through the day and she's still on 'everyone's neutral or positive, except that one guy for doing that one minor thing', and has effectively not really contributed today via that smokescreen.

My main worry with pegging Mr. Miyagi as a traitor is that I can't peg a partner to him. The little queen and Miss Excel are oddly supportive of him, I guess, but that's as close as I get. It's no reason not to lynch when acts can be put on anyway, especially with his particular argument on Yangus, but would if I could see a partner.

I'll get to Mr. Ash separately.

And we're spread over five people this late? I know I'm hardly helping, but I don't want to let go of Mr. Ash yet. Even then we should be working possibilities down. For what it's worth, Mr. Miyagi's self-taunting argument makes him my second, and Mr. Yangus a third at least until his explanation. I'm not sure I want to move from Mr. Ash, but may not have the effective choice.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

Mr. Ash:

Starting from http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38091#msg38091 and moving onwards:

Okay, so a large chunk of my initial bad feeling is based on the role play. It's obvious in bulk, but wasn't at the time at one post a pop, so my apologies for that.

I can't get behind your rationale for voting the foul fiend Death, as it's the reason for voting him in the first place I was asking about, not the later lurker angle for leaving it there for a while. The weight behind such an early vote is what drew my eye.

For all I mishandled in and around sudden death, choosing to give myself more time by taking to sudden death isn't one of them. I've been over this before.

And actually, on reflection that's about all I can pick at there. Maybe I'm just tired, but I can't feel the same unbounded ire I could before. Maybe it's just because you're not stepping up every five minutes to prod me in the back. If it wasn't for the incredibly suspect reasoning on me and said popping up then I wouldn't be feeling so clear.

No, it's not your vote on me that makes or breaks, it's the being so sure on me for what seems flimsy material. If you're so sure on me as you say you are, then I'd be expecting more to defend against by now. If you're not so sure, then moving to a bigger target would be reasonable given that that would be, you know, what you actually thought. I can't see the justification behind lying about your views to avoid votes, when it helps no one.

[Khan Noonian Singh]

I know it's early, but I need to crash. Late nights twice in a row have exhausted me, and I'm getting less and less coherent.

I'll be on well before the deadline. I've completely failed to make another push for Mr. Ash, but I still at least have hopes for "The Dude" to potentially join me, so consolidation can wait till the morning.

[Excel]

Ok, well despite Khan's walls of text, they're fairly comprehensive and he's managed to allay my concerns by providing his thoughts and logical processes. ##Unvote and reading through his posts a few times, I'm prepared to see his point of view on the issues.

Something right now is really concerning me though; Yangus -
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38129#msg38129 appears, says nothing useful, then:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38130#msg38130  - starts building a case on Miyagi, then: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2205.msg38139#msg38139 puts down a vote without any real justification at all on Dude, which he hasn't mentioned in either of those posts.
I'm agreeing with Crow's concern here, but I see it as important enough to back it up with a vote.
##Vote: Yangus.

Putting down a vote without any reason at all and claiming you'll be back in 8 hours to provide reasons is a pretty bad move, made worse by the fact that you've been skimming just below the radar all game. Yangus' really dodgy behavior has amounted to the point where I can't ignore him any longer.

[Sierra]

Current votecount:

Ash (1): Khan
Khan (1): Mr. Miyagi, Ash, Excel
Mr. Miyagi (2): The Dude, Crow T. Robot
Queen Elizabeth (0): Crow T. Robot
The Dude (1): Yangus
Yangus (3): Queen Elizabeth, Mr. Miyagi, Excel

There are roughly 10.5 hours remaining.

With eight alive it takes five to lynch.

[Ash]

And actually, on reflection that's about all I can pick at there. Maybe I'm just tired, but I can't feel the same unbounded ire I could before. Maybe it's just because you're not stepping up every five minutes to prod me in the back. If it wasn't for the incredibly suspect reasoning on me and said popping up then I wouldn't be feeling so clear.

No, it's not your vote on me that makes or breaks, it's the being so sure on me for what seems flimsy material. If you're so sure on me as you say you are, then I'd be expecting more to defend against by now. If you're not so sure, then moving to a bigger target would be reasonable given that that would be, you know, what you actually thought. I can't see the justification behind lying about your views to avoid votes, when it helps no one.

The whole point of pressing on someone like that is to provoke a reaction. They're more likely to blink if they're scum. You look for and catch the blinks. I... can't in all good conscience say that you've faltered... you've bourne up pretty well. Granted, not the best/most solid of cases! I still think you're scum... but I can't really get a good case going, and it's not really going to go anywhere at this point.

##Unvote: Khan

I'm really interested at this point in seeing the point behind Yangus' action. He'd better get to some explainin'. Cause he's got some 'splainin to do.

Excel's vote seems a bit opportunistic. Lurkerish and the perfect scum placement. Really seems to be riding popular opinion. Especially something to note due to her behavior yesterday. I gave her credit for the gutsy move at the end of yesterday, but I'm not as sure on that now as I was. Serling and Yangus were the ones that pulled me off her lurktastic tactic yesterday... Serling was town, but between Yangus' recent behavior and jumping in to save Excel yesterday I'm starting to turn an about face on this one.

Crow still looks town to me... contributing as such. Dude too.

Elizabeth is swingy. When she bothers to contribute, she seems town, but she keeps going through these long absenses and coming back with odd posts, only to swing back to contributing.