DL Interps

[Talaysen]

I don't think Arc the Lad did this. In fact, I think doing almost anything gave experience. The main reason for the difference was that some characters (Kukuru) were so fragile that they died early on and wouldn't get the chance to gain more experience. Additionally, your only sources of revival were Kukuru who was usually the one who needed revival and revival tonics, and I think there was a finite supply of those.

EXP from anything besides killing was waaaaaaaaaay outshadowed by EXP you get from killing.  So while you CAN get EXP from other actions, it's going to be much less than whoever is the guy killing stuff.

[Dhyerwolf]

Limit Meters: If a character -can- start a battle with a full Limit Meter, then they will start a duel with a Limit Meter as high as 50%.
e.g. FF7, TotA, Lufia2, Lunar Legend, S4 Rush, ToS, LoD, ToV, LoL2, G3, XS3?
Exceptions: FF7, due to Limit Levels can start with a 50% Lv4, 75% lv3, or 100% lv2/1; LoD can start with 50% of their TOTAL Dragoon gauge; G3 has infinite full-SP restoring items, which is somewhat unique for a Limit Meter, so I'm allowing G3 characters to start with full SP.
Counter-examples: WA3,4,5 FP, SoA SP, LoL Spirit

Something of a topic revival, but I was thinking about this last night (As in, thinking of the merit of allowing versus the negatives) and I wanted to at least see the general effect in had on duellers.

So
FF7- Would not be counted. Limits are already scaled down to give them earlier access and allow them to obtain different levels in a battle, making chipping around all of them harder. This is already enough of a boon that extra feels unnecessary on top of this.

FF8- Yeah, not letting people come in at different varities of HP though.

FF9- Well, the other people trancing every currently are Vivi, Garnet, and Eiko. This doesn't change, but it will happen in half the time (Which is taking 10 hits? Or...eh, that might have been 10 under High Tide, meaning...20 normal? General point is that no one is really aided).

FF 10-
Stoic: They now hit OD after taking 55% damage
Warrior: Can now kick in after 2 turns of attacking for some.
Tactician: Two status attacks is now OD inducing
Dancer: Evading too attacks is now OD inducing

Tidus- Better finisher.
Lulu- Completely irrelevant.
Rikku- Irrelevant to me (Godlike anyways). For those who just allow like Al Bhed Potions and Mix? Stoic+Al Bhed Potions aren't a bad combo now.
Wakka- Isn't really about damage. Petrify OD is more accessible or something
Auron- More accessible Eject!
Yuna- Doesn't really take hit herself anyways in matches she wins

LoD- Assuming 3 levels of starting SP...
Albert- Can now quickly jump into 3HKO magic with the ability to tank better (This is going to be a theme). Notable improvement, although the speed is still somewhat limiting against mages. Big jump against wall-like fighters. Could be an above average Middle now.
Dart- 2HKOs magically and physically! (Albeit barely on the physical end). Speed is still flawed, but at least feels like he could champ Middle or something.
Haschel- Solid Middle to potential Champ maybe? He can either opt for the painful limit (Of the other type!) or a tanky, fast magical 3HKO against physical walls.
Kongol- Magic damage is still pretty worthless. However, Dragoon form is a little damage in trade for a big durability jump, so it makes him a nightmare to kill in Light barring the people who can unleash massive magical hurting turn 1.
Meru- Big improvement. 3HKOs, but now can do it off fast speed and solid Pdur! (Barring a faster enemy). Solid Middle now instead of riding the L/M borderline.
Miranda/Shana- Oddly less of an improvement than I thought (Partially because she doesn't mind taking a hit first generally. She's fast, isn't generally being OHKOed, etc). Still an improvement since the smash damage turn 1 is better than turn 2 and the status resistance and tanking. She's just so spent after it, and really wishes the smash wasn't OPB 70ish%.
Rose- Actually deserves Heavy now. Turn 1 100% ID, ability to unleash 3300 Magic Damage by turn 2 and makes herself tanky at the same time...Yeah, 4.0ish, seems right.

LoL 2- Did they store up AP after battles ended? Can't remember. If so, damage average goes up, and they get better at inflicting status earlier. Magic damage looks flat out worse, so I'm not sure they gain overall (Well, Sharon now has turn 1 Charm!)

Lufia 2- Well, they even end the game with gauges full! But yeah, the effects (Note that those 65% IPs now need about 30% of their HP to be lost, meaning that they having a really strong case at being included in the damage averages to me. This pushes the averages way up).
Artea- Like Selan, he gains some buffing turn 1, but the higher damage average makes me wonder if he comes out ahead here? Don't think it's a notable gain anyways.
Guy- See Maxim mostly, albeit within the scary high end IPs. But yeah, Tough Hide makes playing a chipping game difficult, Speed IPs can help with the sluggishness that would otherwise sink him quickly against some chippers, etc...Gain.
Maxim- Tough Hide healing is available at the start. Lufia defenses are such a joke that this means even physical sluggers will have issues getting around it. If someone is faster, can 2HKO, can stall until they double, they can take him out ignoring the healing and not having to deal with the 4 turn damage immunity (or Wave Motion). Fleet really helps against people trying to do that stalling though! Actually, Fleet probably means that this is indeed a notable improvement, since the speed was otherwise his problem with this view. Not perfect since IPs are costly, but it still means that it feels like a tangible improvement for him despite the damage looking worse.
Selan- Deflect is turn 1. Buffs are also available turn 1 (And the attack one is solid at least). Already had healing, so doesn't feel like she gains as much as say Maxim. She might about come out even under this view, although...more elementally reliant doesn't help. Hmm, yeah, I'm not really sure if she gains here.

Dekar- He already needed to be doubled and 2HKOed to be outslugged, so this doesn't help. Damage looks slightly worse, but ATK buffing means that he can ream healers.
Lexis- Turn 1 100% status and then try to slug them out before it wears off? Probably an improvement too.
Tia- See Selan, although when she leaves defense buffing isn't a bad joke. Might take her from taking an extra 15% to cutting physicals by like 20%? Thinking on it, plays really well with her game since anyways going after her faces like 80% Pdur instead of 50%. Yeah, very much an improvement.

MK- Did the gauge start at 0 anyways? If not, Jessica and Pamela have a better chance of reaching it in long matching. No one else will see it.

SH 3- Um, I'd need to see what the recharges times are to see how the damage average turns out anyways.

TotA- No clue how long it takes them to hit OL, so no clue if this makes this actually DL viable for anyone at all.

Anyone casts/notable effects that I'm missing here? As I said, not sure I allow it, but I'm definitely thinking on it.

[DjinnAndTonic]

For TotA, starting with 0 OL would mean something like 10 rounds of each character's best combo string, assuming they are heal-locking their opponent. I believe that a higher number of combo hits = faster OL charging, but it's still ridiculously slow. Some PCs charge faster than others due to this.

PCs also gain OL from receiving damage, but I haven't really been able to figure out a %mHP damage = amt of OL gained formula yet. I suspect that it isn't as high a charge rate as the gain from attacking, though.

Starting them at half OL would be a pretty big boon to most of them since they won't be able to heal lock someone 10 times with their limited resources, but 5 times is a bit more doable.

[Talaysen]

Well, going to put my two cents in since I adopt a view similar to this.

FF7- Would not be counted. Limits are already scaled down to give them earlier access and allow them to obtain different levels in a battle, making chipping around all of them harder. This is already enough of a boon that extra feels unnecessary on top of this.

I don't know if Djinn does this, but I do NOT scale limits on top of starting meter.  Scaling limits just strikes me as ridiculous regardless because that is very much not how they work at all.  Tangentally, I only allow 50% starting regardless of which limit they choose to equip.  The speed of the limits are represented just fine by how many times they need to be hit in battle.

LoD- Assuming 3 levels of starting SP...

Don't LoD characters have a max of 5 or 500% SP?  Half of that is 2.5 or 250%.

LoL 2- Did they store up AP after battles ended? Can't remember. If so, damage average goes up, and they get better at inflicting status earlier. Magic damage looks flat out worse, so I'm not sure they gain overall (Well, Sharon now has turn 1 Charm!)

Pretty sure it resets after battle anyway.

MK- Did the gauge start at 0 anyways? If not, Jessica and Pamela have a better chance of reaching it in long matching. No one else will see it.

Burst gauge is reset after every battle, Finishing Strike gauge carries over.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Actually, Legaia 2 AP carries over from battle to battle.

[Talaysen]

Actually, Legaia 2 AP carries over from battle to battle.

Oh right, it does, doesn't it?  I was thinking of something else.

[Clear Tranquil]

For LoD I'd be willing to allow PCs to use their SP boost weapons for this (Fairy Sword, Pretty Hammer, Arrow of ... Force?) That's if I decide to work with this whole overall starting gauges idea at all that is >.>

[Dhyerwolf]

I think the thought process for starting SP wasn't really that you could just fight extra battles and attack more (Which is where SP+ weapons would come into play), but that you are constantly already starting randoms with SP (fluctuating process of use and such), and therefore that feels more representative.

LoD doesn't do half bars once transformed (Although I suppose you could say it matters for some follow up attacks if they don't want to go straight into the Dragoon forms). 2 turns off the bat is a downgrade for any of them with the 3HKO magic damage.

Seems like LoD and Lufia 2 (to a much lesser extent) would definetely be the winners of this view.

[Magic Fanatic]

Extra notes about your Crest Allowances.

Eligos - It's found in Anastasia's home, the Hermitage.  It's a big palace, so take this as you will.

Naberius - Since you're allowing Bifrons, you may want to consider this; it's found in the trainyard where you only have Blanca and Kurando.  Granted, I believe Kurando becomes the map character here, but he still can't use crests.

[Dhyerwolf]

Ooh, right, because it never gets to be relevant otherwise (sadly), let's visit Lufia 3 too. Too bad I don't still have the Contenders numbers I had on the topic.

Wain- Was 3.85ish, I think? Was unsure, because he's a nightmare to outslug but complete status bait. That's doesn't really change at all, but being that much closer to IPs could buy a few extra wins? Granted, higher damage average. Don't think he changes really.

Seena- Was also 3.85ish? Anyways, now has turn 1 Defense buffing. Granted...don't remember how potent L3 defense was. Damage overall probably looks worse, since she's gaining the least from IPs in that manner...but the super accurate status is now longer. Let's call it a wash too.

Dei- Was 3.2ish now 3.35ish? Gains some damage punches and actual chance to see Assasinate (against evasive)

Aima- The winner! 50 IP makes Aima a damage monster. Was a good Middle before I think, and is now a Heavy of some sort. Let's say 4ish. Better in a slugfest than Wain, but still such perfect status bait. The first isn't worth much since Wain was already so good, but at least Aima can kill more quickly!

Randolph- Was shit, is still shit.

Melphis- 3.85ish again and doesn't change. Wain/Aima/Melphis all share the status problem of pain to attempt to outslug, but are all slow and bait to status. Melphis can fix a lot of that turn 1...but also easier to outslug than Wain.

Deckard- Gains uh...ability to see Scattershot easily. Improvement! No clue where he was before.

Ruby- Was 3.5 is...3.45 now. Ruby has nothing useful for IPs, and therefore looks worse. Could be lower depending on the damage average, but this is a clear loss here.

Yurist- No clue what he was before, but notable winner 2. Hard to outslug before, but now adds 100% turn 1 status! Granted, has to follow it up with...Yurist damage. Granted, improved Yurist damage! Also, turn 1...highly variable MP damage. But it's there. Maybe as not as much of a notable winner as I thought. Depends on paralysis' duration.

Isaac- No clue where he was before, but he's definitely still in the same area. Wanted Lexis like IP options.

Milka- Hmm, let's call her even too. Loses damage, gains...at least more speed buffing! Possibly decent defense buffing, which does play into her game really nicely.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I think the thought process for starting SP wasn't really that you could just fight extra battles and attack more (Which is where SP+ weapons would come into play), but that you are constantly already starting randoms with SP (fluctuating process of use and such), and therefore that feels more representative.

Seems like LoD and Lufia 2 (to a much lesser extent) would definetely be the winners of this view.

Grandia 3 likes this, too.

[Dhyerwolf]

Minus the G3 was generally seen as starting with full SP to many otherwise thanks to full SP healing items. Certainly half is extremely better than none though.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I figured half was better since it lowered the three-turn averages and made their first-turn damage look much better.

[Talaysen]

SP isn't used for only damage you know.  Yuki and Ulf can't get their buffs going for as long, and that's half the cast right there.

[Dhyerwolf]

Make it 3/4 of the cast, since Alfina is buff Heavy too (And no more Armaggedeon in practical DL terms!)

I could maybe see 1/2 SP for Alonso/Miranda scaling (Alonso then gains hideous turn 1 damage, I'd bet, and Miranda likes her Tremor/Wow combo even more!).