Author Topic: Nomic - Turn Twenty Eight (tai sez: omnomnom)  (Read 81244 times)

Carthrat

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this rule sucks
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Just the bones of the office. Nothing personal, Rat.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Veryslightlymad

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OH NO

I MAY NEED TO READ

I was worried about you sucking the fun out of this....

But then.....

this rule sucks

The payoff!

Kilgamayan

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AMENDMENT TO THE PROPOSAL: The person in charge of game logistics cannot participate in the making of proposals for balance's sake.

I dislike this because it would mean that Tonfa would be right and I would be wrong and I dislike being wrong. :(


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Halbarad

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Alex: I'm not proposing that the Mobb's overall majority vote be counted as a single player vote; I'd say to keep every individual member of the Mobb as having their own vote.

What it would mean is that for the Mobb (as a single, collective player) the majority of their votes would determine whether the Mobb voted Yea or Nay just for the purposes of scoring. So if you get 4 players for, 2 against (+12/+6), and 3 Mobb for/5 against (+3/+5), said proposal would pass, but the Mobb would count as having a Nay vote for determining whether the Mobb receives any points.

Which basically means yeah, we can act as an agent of chaos, and we have a stake in the game (since we can win!) but it's harder for us to do so.
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Ranmilia

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Oh, just for scoring?  That's fine then.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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I believe I even made that wording in the proposal. For scoring purposes, the Mobb gets averaged, but the votes for proposal passing/failing are counted individually.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Yakumo

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211. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

310. Every participant on the board has one vote.  All of the penalties and bonuses associated with voting for purposes of playing the game will be reserved solely for those participants designated as players.  Finally, the votes of players will count as three votes for determining if a measure shall pass, but will count as one vote for purposes of determining penalties and bonuses.

We seem to have a bit of a conflict here.  I... haven't figured out a way to bypass it yet, but I wanted to point this out for everyone to see.  Since we're not technically players, per Excal's ruling we can't score, and his rule wins the tiebreak by virtue of being first and having the smaller number.

Halbarad

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That's actually what my proposal would be, Yak (assuming Snow doesn't modify the current proposal to include it). Add "the Unruly Mobb" (collectively) to the game as a single player; any individual voter not previously accounted for as a designated player forms a part of The Unruly Mobb.
Scoring as follows, yadda yadda.
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Yakumo

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But if you put us in as a player, then suddenly our votes count the same as theirs do, as per the line right after the bolding.  I doubt the players would go for that, and since they effectively have 18 votes while things remain as they are, we would have to drum up a hell of a lot of support to bypass them.  We could simply amend the bolded line out, would be the easiest way.  What I meant by not being able to see a way around it was immediately, I don't think we can fix it with Snow's rule being amended at all, as I believe one of the rules says something about not being able to change one rule and add another at the same time.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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I think I've got a way to elegantly convey this.

Proposal 311 - This ruling dictates the non-player mass becomes a gestalt player entity called The Unruly Mob© (or Mobb©. © fully optional), being granted the scoring and proposal-making privileges that a normal player would receive by playing the game. However, due to its nature, its vote-counting and proposal-making mechanics will work differently from a typical player.

Clause 1: For proposal-making, in the voting phase immediately before the Unruly Mob's proposal, players will send proposals to the person in charge of game logistics (currently Carthrat), who will pick one of the proposals sent on that phase. Once the Mob's chosen proposal has been voted, the logistic handler must make public all the proposals sent to him in that phase. This undisclosing will be done along with vote results.

PROVISION TO CLAUSE 1: The person in charge of logistics cannot send/create proposals for voting.

Clause 2: For proposal approval/rejection purposes, the Mobb's votes will be counted per individual, as worded in proposal 310. However, for scoring purposes, the Unruly Mob's decision will be taken as the majority of the votes within the mob (i.e., if seven non-players vote for a proposal, and four of them vote "yea", the Mob's vote for scoring purposes will be taken as a single "yea", and it will receive bonuses/penalties accordingly).


I hope this is better.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Excal

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Re: Nomic - Turn Eleven (Hey, guys, everyone on the board can vote, now! Whooooo
« Reply #286 on: December 05, 2008, 06:29:02 AM »
The trouble with that amendment is that if you create a non voting player then it will get dinged with a -10 each round.  And yet, you cannot give it voting rights without adding a free 3 votes to the majority of the Mobb unless you incorporate every forumite who is not a player into the Mobb as members of a body that is collectively a player, with their votes being a say in how their collective player would vote.  And at least one member of the Mobb has already expressed a dislike of that option.

I'm thinking that your best bet, oddly enough, may be as an amendment to the rule which imposes the -10 for not voting, assuming it is not immutable.

Halbarad

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Re: Nomic - Turn Eleven (Hey, guys, everyone on the board can vote, now! Whooooo
« Reply #287 on: December 05, 2008, 12:28:40 PM »
I'd just add a clause to the current proposal which states: "For the purposes of having voted, a total of individual votes by the members of the Mobb of not less than the current weight of a single standard player vote shall consist of a vote; any total of votes less than this amount, while still counted individually, shall consist of a failure to vote by the Mobb."

This means we can still get hit with the penalty unless we have more than three people vote (at the moment, since later proposals could change standard player voteweight.)
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 - Frequently. But only for others.

Halbarad

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Re: Nomic - Turn Eleven (Hey, guys, everyone on the board can vote, now! Whooooo
« Reply #288 on: December 05, 2008, 12:41:44 PM »
more than three people -> at least three people
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Moar editing!

Proposal 311 - This ruling dictates the non-player mass becomes a gestalt player entity called The Unruly Mob© (or Mobb©. © fully optional), being granted the scoring and proposal-making privileges that a normal player would receive by playing the game. However, due to its nature, its vote-counting and proposal-making mechanics will work differently from a typical player.

Clause 1: For proposal-making, in the voting phase immediately before the Unruly Mob's proposal, players will send proposals to the person in charge of game logistics (currently Carthrat), who will pick one of the proposals sent on that phase. Once the Mob's chosen proposal has been voted, the logistic handler must make public all the proposals sent to him in that phase. This undisclosing will be done along with vote results.

PROVISION TO CLAUSE 1: The person in charge of logistics cannot send/create proposals for voting.

Clause 2: For proposal approval/rejection purposes, the Mobb's votes will be counted per individual, as worded in proposal 310. However, for scoring purposes, the Unruly Mob's decision will be taken as the majority of the votes within the mob (i.e., if seven non-players vote for a proposal, and four of them vote "yea", the Mob's vote for scoring purposes will be taken as a single "yea", and it will receive bonuses/penalties accordingly).

Clause 3: If the amount of votes from non-players in any given round is below the weight of a normal player vote, the Mobb will be considered as not having voted, and will be penalized accordingly, along with not having any of its votes counted. In the current setup, this means that, to be considered as having voted, the Unruly Mob needs to have at least three non-player votes.

This is becoming a masthodon pretty quickly. However, if people don't mind this taking longer, I guess we could take the longer way out and begin by changing the rules that make this complicated, then trying for this ruling.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Jo'ou Ranbu

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IN FACT: I think I'll just go for the long way, since the idea of making the non-players a gestalt entity instead of a player appeases me more.

Proposal 311 - Change the text in rule 310 to: "Every participant on the board has one vote.  All of the penalties and bonuses associated with voting for purposes of playing the game will be reserved  for any participants possessing the right to make proposals. Finally, the votes of players will count as three votes for determining if a measure shall pass, but will count as one vote for purposes of determining penalties and bonuses."

This would be the step needed to take in order to make the actual idea viable, I think.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Carthrat

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I liked it before...

:V
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Jo'ou Ranbu

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I just want to have the actual idea I have go through without the orderly boringness that making the mob a straight player would bring, though. =<
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Carthrat

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It is now Voting phase! Send votes in. ALL OF YOU

Proposal 311 - Change the text in rule 310 to: "Every participant on the board has one vote.  All of the penalties and bonuses associated with voting for purposes of playing the game will be reserved  for any participants possessing the right to make proposals. Finally, the votes of players will count as three votes for determining if a measure shall pass, but will count as one vote for purposes of determining penalties and bonuses."
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twelve
« Reply #294 on: December 07, 2008, 06:57:03 AM »
Proposal 311 - Change the text in rule 310 to: "Every participant on the board has one vote.  All of the penalties and bonuses associated with voting for purposes of playing the game will be reserved  for any participants possessing the right to make proposals. Finally, the votes of players will count as three votes for determining if a measure shall pass, but will count as one vote for purposes of determining penalties and bonuses."

1. AndrewRogue - Yea
2. EvilTom - Nay
3. Excal - Nay
4. Jo'ou Ranbu - Yea
5. Sopko - Abstained
6. VerySlightlyMad - Nay

Tonfa: Yea
Nitori: Yea
Ryogo: Yea
Ciato: Yea
Dunefar: No
Shale: Yea
Yakumo: Yea
Gatewalker: Yea
Halbarad: Yea
Twilkitri: Yea

The proposal was PASSED!

<->

Nomic -- Turn Twelve

Players - Points

1. AndrewRogue: 9
2. EvilTom: 35
3. Excal: 35
4. Jo'ou Ranbu: 26
5. Sopko: 15
6. VerySlightlyMad: 48

It is Sopko's turn! Please propose a change to the rules! Your rule-change number is 312.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 06:26:42 AM by Carthrat »
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twelve
« Reply #295 on: December 07, 2008, 04:09:13 PM »
Gah. Need to remember to check the topic

Anyway...

Proposal 312: Any non-player posting shall be required in every post to give all praise be to the moderator Cathrat and also thank Excal and Snow for giving them the chance to participate  or shall forfeit their voting rights indefinately.

Bardiche

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twelve
« Reply #296 on: December 07, 2008, 04:17:21 PM »
Why would I want this to pass?

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twelve
« Reply #297 on: December 07, 2008, 04:18:21 PM »
Discussion phase. 48 hours.

I kind of like praise, but I dread the prospect of this proposal being turned against me, somehow...
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twelve
« Reply #298 on: December 07, 2008, 04:24:25 PM »
Why would I want this to pass?

It's not about you. It's about the players making the non-players dance to our whims.

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twelve
« Reply #299 on: December 07, 2008, 04:29:24 PM »
I fear this is prone to backlash.

And I predict VSM gets another 10 points.
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?