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Author Topic: Nomic - Turn Twenty Eight (tai sez: omnomnom)  (Read 83077 times)

Yakumo

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #575 on: January 06, 2009, 06:31:18 AM »
You know most of us are just out to screw with you right?  <_<

I mean, sure, it sounds neat to get us more involved but I honestly don't care which player is ahead or anything like that, so there's not really an incentive for me to work together with anyone.  I don't care about winning, I'd try to get to be a player if I did.  So, really, what reason do I have to even acknowledge this rule?  I'd just keep voting the way I have been, on a whim.  All it really means is I can have two votes instead of one if somebody feels like giving it to me. 

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #576 on: January 06, 2009, 06:54:08 AM »
I find the idea of the rule rather neat, but it'd... need a lot more mobb coordination than what we have right now, and it really needs tweaking and maybe reconception. As Rat said, if it's just "wee pick a pardnar and game continues as normal", things just won't be made any more interesting. That, and I find that this rule won't work properly in this environment, where the mob is highly fickle. It's a cool concept, but I think it probably will need at least one more outing before it becomes appliable in practice.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Talaysen

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #577 on: January 06, 2009, 08:09:34 AM »
Yeah, thinking this rule needs... something.  By the looks of it, the rule can only hurt players and can't help them at all, and the non-players just don't have a reason to care.  I think both of these should be changed somehow (even if minorly, actually minorly is probably best) to make it more interesting and appealing.

I do like the idea, it... just doesn't do much as-is.

EvilTom

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #578 on: January 06, 2009, 10:15:53 AM »
Sorry, don't like this one. Nothing I can suggest will sway me either.
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Hunter Sopko

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #579 on: January 06, 2009, 03:03:21 PM »
Rule 319- Each player may pick a non-player partner. That partner gets control over one of the player's votes. The partner's vote is counted towards the player vote total. The player has the option of changing partners at the beginning of every turn, but cannot choose another partner for two turns after that. Any unused votes by the non-player will be credited towards the player's accrued votes. One may choose to cease having a partner at the cost of five points.
1) An eligible non-player partner is one that has voted in the mob in a turn previous to the player's choosing them as their partner.
2) If the non-player does not vote for four consecutive turns, the player is penalized twenty points.
3) If the player retains the same partner for four consecutive turns, he gains twenty points.
4) Non-players chosen as partners retain their Mob vote.


In this iteration, it's no longer manditory, the players can gain points for having a partner, and I modified the times around a bit. Two turns to change partners. Also, clarified where the partner's vote would go. If you want to risk a mob having control over one of your votes, you can get some points out of it. The direction of their vote doesn't matter towards that.

So say you choose to have a partner, and they continually vote contrary to you. Do you want to keep them on to get that twenty points, or would that harm your plans further down the line? Not having one gives you control over your votes, but closes off a way to gain points.

As for the mob, my thought was that the mob wouldn't really want to give up that extra vote, which would keep them from outright screwing with everything, though maybe it wouldn't.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 04:38:05 PM by Hunter Sopko »

EvilTom

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #580 on: January 06, 2009, 11:14:18 PM »
Hmm this is a lot better actually.
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #581 on: January 06, 2009, 11:27:28 PM »
Hm. Some of the most flagrant issues were fixed - mainly, the fixed rule is much more forgiving regarding what happens if things go not as planned. Still feels like it has the "game mostly goes as normal but with partners" thing, though, which doesn't help things too much. As it is, I dunno how I'd vote.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #582 on: January 07, 2009, 12:16:21 AM »
Well, the rule does change the game now, i.e. "If you have a friend, you can gain points."

I still don't like it much. Where is the strategy/bribery/diplomacy/anything?
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Carthrat

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #583 on: January 07, 2009, 12:19:08 AM »
As an addendum: This rule, to me, is not really a threat (so I don't need to cram anti-votes down it) but nor does it really do anything for me (so I don't need to vote strongly for it). So I probably will be voting for whichever end looks more likely to earn me some points.
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Veryslightlymad

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #584 on: January 07, 2009, 10:52:37 PM »
As an addendum: This rule, to me, is not really a threat (so I don't need to cram anti-votes down it) but nor does it really do anything for me (so I don't need to vote strongly for it). So I probably will be voting for whichever end looks more likely to earn me some points.

There are other ways to vote?

Hunter Sopko

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #585 on: January 07, 2009, 11:14:19 PM »
After much thinking, I can't really figure out a way to add anything that would spice it up without destroying the balance. The one idea I had, that the player would request a partner and the moderator would assign them... doesn't quite work with Rat in the game now. Probably will have to take it as is.

Bardiche

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #586 on: January 07, 2009, 11:39:17 PM »
I flipped a coin. It came up heads, so I'm voting Yea on this.

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #587 on: January 08, 2009, 05:48:34 AM »
Voting phase!

Rule 319- Each player may pick a non-player partner. That partner gets control over one of the player's votes. The partner's vote is counted towards the player vote total. The player has the option of changing partners at the beginning of every turn, but cannot choose another partner for two turns after that. Any unused votes by the non-player will be credited towards the player's accrued votes. One may choose to cease having a partner at the cost of five points.
1) An eligible non-player partner is one that has voted in the mob in a turn previous to the player's choosing them as their partner.
2) If the non-player does not vote for four consecutive turns, the player is penalized twenty points.
3) If the player retains the same partner for four consecutive turns, he gains twenty points.
4) Non-players chosen as partners retain their Mob vote.

WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Carthrat

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Re: Nomic - Turn Nineteen
« Reply #588 on: January 09, 2009, 12:56:10 PM »
Rule 319- Each player may pick a non-player partner. That partner gets control over one of the player's votes. The partner's vote is counted towards the player vote total. The player has the option of changing partners at the beginning of every turn, but cannot choose another partner for two turns after that. Any unused votes by the non-player will be credited towards the player's accrued votes. One may choose to cease having a partner at the cost of five points.
1) An eligible non-player partner is one that has voted in the mob in a turn previous to the player's choosing them as their partner.
2) If the non-player does not vote for four consecutive turns, the player is penalized twenty points.
3) If the player retains the same partner for four consecutive turns, he gains twenty points.
4) Non-players chosen as partners retain their Mob vote.

AndrewRogue: Abstained
Carthrat: Nay
EvilTom: Nay
Excal: Nay
HunterSopko: Yea Yea Yea
Jo'ou: Nay
VSM: Yea Yea Yea

Bardiche: Yea
Gatewalker: Nay
QuietRain: Nay
SirAlex: Yea
Super: Yay
Talaysen: Yea
Twilkitry: Nay
Xanth: Nay
Yakumo: Nay

The proposal was PASSED!

<->

Nomic -- Turn Twenty

Players - Points

1. AndrewRogue: -26
2. Carthrat: 54 (Partner: Corwin)
3. EvilTom: 59
4. Excal: 50
5. Jo'ou Ranbu: 60
6. Sopko: 48
7. VerySlightlyMad: 53

It is VSM's turn! Please propose a change to the rules. Your rule-change number is 320.

Please send partner choices in to me via PM when you want them. They'll be publically listed because otherwise it just wouldn't be fair.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 01:05:57 PM by Carthrat »
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Kilgamayan

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #589 on: January 09, 2009, 04:57:23 PM »
Why does super get a Yay when everyone else gets a Yea? Is he celebrating something?


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

EvilTom

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #590 on: January 09, 2009, 04:58:00 PM »
Because he's super effective.
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Dunefar

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #591 on: January 09, 2009, 05:28:14 PM »
Because Super is Super?
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Veryslightlymad

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #592 on: January 09, 2009, 06:08:10 PM »
RULE 320:

Before the start of turn 21, rules number 301 through 309 will immediately be re-voted upon with full mob involvement, and re-labeled as rules/proposals 321-329.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ret-con.

The mob should be given a say on the previous proposals, I feel.

Bardiche

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #593 on: January 09, 2009, 06:12:33 PM »
As it stands, I would vote Nay for this.

Too chaotic, too confusing, and I fail to see what the need is for re-voting on proposals that were already passed.

Veryslightlymad

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #594 on: January 09, 2009, 06:39:46 PM »
I've given thought to changing it to just voting on the failed proposals. That might be more doable, albeit, less interesting.

What good is there in a mob if it can't fuck with things?

Bardiche

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #595 on: January 09, 2009, 06:47:46 PM »
You're aware most proposals since the instatement of the mob is to organize us (remove the chaotic element) or bully us out of the game? Why'd you suddenly want to try and push through a proposal in our favour now?

I have no reason to believe this proposal to be any bit in favour of the mob. //edit: came out harsher than intended.

Basically, I think that there's no benefit to the mob in this. It's... not at all chaos inciting to simply revote, because if a majority of players lean one way, not even the mob can change anything on it, not to mention the fact we're mostly divided in opinion.

-->

To give technical feedback on the proposal, how would votes be distributed during a re-vote? Would everyone have to be economic on votes, or would we gain some to vote on each proposal or what?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 06:55:56 PM by Bardiche »

QuietRain

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #596 on: January 09, 2009, 07:23:00 PM »
Much like Bardiche, I don't see the point in going over everything that's gone before.  If you're looking to give the mob something fun to do, re-watching things we've already seen is not going to get you brownie points or amuse us enough to be interested.  If you're wanting a proposal specifically to interact with or engage the mob, you will get a better reception by having your rule be something new.   I'll be honest that anything that requires a vote to look back over past stuff I'll vote no on.  And if it does pass, I'll be skipping the part where we have to go over things since the start of game and just wait until the next new proposal shows up before paying attention again. 

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Excal

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #597 on: January 09, 2009, 07:49:13 PM »
I don't see a need for 9 extra votes.  Especially given that several of the votes in question were specifically doing the same thing over again because it got vetoed the first time around, or because later measures were only doable because of measures that came before.  There's also the fact that one of those measures that passed was immutable at the time it passed, and was made mutable.  How would that work?

Would it need unanimity to be passed again, in which case one random Mobb vote can veto two measures that passed?
Would it need unanimity to be cancelled, in which case Mobb participation is worthless because my vote will do that just fine.

According to immutable law, it will need to be one of those two, and probably the latter.  Which really does strike me as a Bad Idea.

Veryslightlymad

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #598 on: January 09, 2009, 08:59:35 PM »
I like chaos. I'll think of something.

Veryslightlymad

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Re: Nomic - Turn Twenty
« Reply #599 on: January 09, 2009, 09:11:53 PM »
320:

Transmute Rule 107 into a Mutable Rule.