Author Topic: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.  (Read 7243 times)

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2008, 05:11:34 AM »
The only thing that could really save Grahf is the support credit (Which I'm pretty lenient on, which is why I think he survives 2 hits. But it's borderline, and I tend to be really nice on that).
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VySaika

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2008, 05:31:32 AM »
I give support credit, but my Georg damage respect is also in the +++ range, so that just means Gerog scrapes the 2HKO instead of doing it cleanly.
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James_xeno

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2008, 06:15:10 AM »
Georg Prime (Suikos) vs. Grahf (XG)- Strong kneejerk.
Does Georg really have enough damage to 2HKO Grahf?? I'm not sure if I could swallow Grahf going down in a 2HKO from anything less than OHKO or overkill damage.

Boss respect generally varies. But Grahf's HP is... well, 6666 HP is certainly the highest of any XG boss on foot until that point, and quite possibly even the highest in the game, scaled. What that says, though, depends on who you ask.

That's what I mean... Grahf's HP is by a large margin (about 150%) greater then the second highest boss HP. Which happens to be a boss from the same point (PC levels and stats) in the game. And 165%+ better than the third best, from a later point in the game. Big time overkill damage is the only way he's ever going to be 2HKOed.


Considering I view him as facing hyper DBs at that point rather uniformly, he weeps openly as he stands against a four-digit average damage and lingers at 0.6x PC HP off my scaling, which just gets Grahf pathetically OHKOed - but my boss scaling is one of the most cruel in the group, anyway. Elfboy sees him at the 1.5x PC HP mark, I think? Which would fall prey to Georg 2HKOing on average. Basically, a more forgiving view of boss HP could give Grahf a better fighting chance. YMMV on that, of course.

0.6, 1.5!?!! Just how far do you have to go to get it down that low? Is the DL supposed to be based off the games, or RP? Because the latter is what it seems like many times to me.
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VySaika

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2008, 07:02:18 AM »
While we do alot of what is essentialy fanfic writing for the results, the voting is, at least for the large majority of us, based on the games. As for how folks get HP levels down that low, I'll leave that to one of the math gurus here to break down for you, as that's hardly my strong point.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2008, 07:20:09 AM »
Ultimately it is pretty arbitrary. The short of it might look something like:

Jeremy takes 3 average hits to fall over.
Grahf takes about 12 (less with hyper DBs)
Royce takes about 32.
Jade takes about 80.

There are lots of other factors at work here (support credit, PCs in the party, differing views of damage averages, level of twinking considered...), depending on how people see boss HP, but that alone should give you a range of where boss HP can fall. Grahf's isn't horrible, but it's not exactly at the high end, either. Anyway, if you see Grahf as highly durable, you by extension will see some bosses as exceptionally durable, and that rubs most people the wrong way. So instead we see Grahf as only modestly durable.

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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2008, 07:24:22 AM »
It's based on how long the boss could survive if wailed on nonstop by the PCs - that is, if they didn't have to bother healing, reviving, curing status, etc. There are a lot of disagreements between people about how much HP a hit or round survived is worth, how much PCs even do at any given point of the game (this is a key issue with Grahf in particular), whether or not to give the boss a boost because he has someone else to divert damage from him in game (I find this practice retarded myself but some people swear by it), etc. But that's the basic idea. (There are also voters who as you said do not give a shit about any of the above considerations and vote based on story power instead, but they're rare and none of them are making anything about Grahf's fight this week)

"Highest HP of any boss in the game" is always kind of a misleading statement because bosses can take abuse for a long time in some games and a short time in others. That statement means a lot  in, say, the original breath of fire where it takes 32 turns from the big uber final transformation to kill the final boss and... christ, it has to be over a hundred from a normal PC. But in final fantasy 6, where an endboss would be lucky to survive say 10 hits, it means much less. These are more extreme ends of the spectrum, XG I see as somewhere in the middle, a bit on the lower end but still high enough that its toughest boss can take 2 hits from Georg.

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2008, 09:18:41 AM »
(There are also voters who as you said do not give a shit about any of the above considerations and vote based on story power instead, but they're rare and none of them are making anything about Grahf's fight this week)

What?! People vote on story power?

I was under the impression that such a practice was strictly against the rules... and that the only people who did it were crazy casual voters and newbies...

If this is true and is legal by some means, I'd like an example where such a practice could be implemented but wouldn't be openly mocked.

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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2008, 11:18:10 AM »
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I was under the impression that such a practice was strictly against the rules... and that the only people who did it were crazy casual voters and newbies...

Strictly against the rules: Well, such a thing can't really exist here besides "no votestuffing." We can't outright ban those kinds of votes, just strongly discourage them.

You're right about the second bit, but those groups do of course exist.

Ryogo

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2008, 01:16:53 PM »
Quote
I was under the impression that such a practice was strictly against the rules... and that the only people who did it were crazy casual voters and newbies...

Strictly against the rules: Well, such a thing can't really exist here besides "no votestuffing." We can't outright ban those kinds of votes, just strongly discourage them.

You're right about the second bit, but those groups do of course exist.

Kinda like me then :P

But seriously, Like I've said before I just don't the patience to go and compare everyone's stats to one another, figure out their equipment setups, etc. Instead, I just go off of memory of what each character was like, who I remember having high strength, evade, defense, speed, etc., Who could use what spells and magic, who could inflict what status damage, Yada yada yada.

superaielman

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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2008, 01:24:44 PM »
Yeah, you can vote however you wish. The site's just based on a gameplay centered model, so long as you can roll with the results fitting that you'll be fine.
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Re: Season 47, Week 4: Brothers battle in a bloody brawl.
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2008, 12:44:42 PM »
What the hell Beowulf. Sleep. Damn pimp~
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