LFT: An FFT mod (The final release is a lie. Download here!)

[KelogBites]

It's not necessarily forcing you into a turtlefest, since Ninja's who would benefit from this combo, can still OHKO almost ANYTHING later on (With Martial Arts), you can still use sword skills, and you can still use something like Meteor and then move. You are still often forced to heal status effects even with an offensive set-up since a lot of fights simply cannot be blitzed down and these are the same fights where you almost have to spend your time reviving/curing statuses. It has another added bonus in halving the time you spend on support (Statuses, Curing, Reviving, Buffing) by making your team simply not die, or die/take damage far, far less often. I can't see a MP Switch Knight with a Robe being that good to be honest (Again almost all of my assumptions are on the after-game or very late-game, the normal game is still easy enough that making specific set-ups for them seems redundant, not that they aren't improved from vanilla. In fact, Grefter in Sand Rats is probably one of the hardest encounters in Chapters 1&2), why I think so, is you still won't have enough MP to take two hits and lose the bonus clothes would give you on a different character (Knights aren't all too awesome late-game, mostly because of their lack of clothes and pretty low speed. Speed is still the king of FFT). Hence a High-Speed, High-Damage non-magic user is the best user for the combo as opposed to say a Protect/Shell'd Knight who would (while not detracting from my 'MP Switch+Move MP Up>All' stance) be optimally suited to using Auto-Potion. Few things could smash through him, but that is going overboard on pure defense IMO. An accessory or head slot (Ribbons are still one of the best headpieces)+Reaction+Movement isn't, since you can still have a ridiculous amount of killing power/healing/buffing and decent movement. As for the 'two people hitting you nulls MP Switches invulnerability' it's a rare instance where two people hitting you isn't instant-death in any other case (where it matters, 20 hits for 10 damage does not constitute 'where it matters' or low-faith+magic attacks).

[metroid composite]

Hold on, are you arguing that Chantage + MP switch + move MP up is overpoweredly durable...because of the MP switch combo?  Chantage strikes me as the overpowered piece of that setup.

Elfboy: agreed that MP switch is good, or arguably better without the move MP up combo.  I believe that we're on the same page (namely MP switch is an excellent ability, but doesn't need banning, and banning just move MP up wouldn't reduce the power level of MP switch too much).  Correct me if I'm misinterpreting you.

[KelogBites]

No, no. I was musing on how a Ramza+4 Females team could stack the greatest amount of broken of broken items/combos. Speaking about Chantages, have you considered they are just a bit too easy to get? I mean, a Hydra is encountered very, very often coming from Bervenia North. And breeding it to a Tiamat requires zero effort. Which gives you...the most broken accessory.

[Dark Holy Elf]

This is still harder than it was in vanilla FFT. <.< I think it's fine for people to play with their broken toys if they really want.

Also ow ow ow ow Hashmalum oh my god the Summoner SCC is -fucked-.

[Luther Lansfeld]

If you want to put in the effort of inviting, breeding, and poaching, then I think you can if ya want! It's just boring to folks like moi.

[KelogBites]

You get a Mediator, you shoot a hydra into critical (pretty easy really), walk around for awhile doing other stuff...then Poach it. I really cannot see he effort required in it. Since you don't really need to hunt a Hydra too much, the things show up like weeds in Bervenia in relatively easy battles. Breeding is effortless, completely effortless. And poaching while adding some kind of difficulty (Do a fight with 4 characters, or 5 and poach once only one weakened enemy is left). Considering Chantages are pretty high on the broken scale, compared to the other pretty damn broken things (which I am okay with since they do take effort+sizeable time to do) 97 Brave Blade Grasp, NonCharge *anything*, Two Swords+KSwords (iffy on this since it isn't really that broken). And these aren't the end all be all combos. Whereas there isn't any real reason to use anything else in an equipment slot once you have a Chantage (for Ramza that is), for the ease of it's obtainment it seems to be too much.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Breeding takes time (often -lots- of it), slots on your limited party roster, patience, grinding and fighting battles where you're essentially hamstringing yourself -once- you get the monster you want through the tedium of breed grindans. I also haven't mentioned hydras are -rare- and -late- to the point of bordering on aftergame monsters. In the end, just see Elfboy: by that point in FFT, people can play with their broken toys if they want.

[KelogBites]

Hydras really..aren't rare...or that late, you could have one as soon as you finish Chapter 3. It takes two slots on the party roster, again, that isn't too big of a deal even if you are a 'I must have all special characters' person. It doesn't hamstring you in the fight you do need to poach 1/2 as much as you'd think. Tiamat's are pretty powerful monsters, definitely capable of holding their own against randoms. No one says the first thing you have to do is poach your own Tiamat, it's easier to do it at the very end. The only part of this that takes patience is the breeding, which again, takes 0 effort. It's just moving between spots on the map, hell you could do propositions while this is going on to pass the time since those are the same thing essentially.

I'm all for people having some broken toys, if those broken toys actually take real effort or time to achieve respective to their rewards (and the time they become available I suppose). It seems counter-intuitive to the stated goal #1 as well, to quote it...
1. To improve the usability and balance in all aspects of gameplay. (classes, items, etc.)
How is allowing an easily acquired and undeniably broken item, in what can be called the late mid-game balance in items? Which brings up another point regarding the aftergame, how exactly was it designed. Is it expected you use these broken combos/items/classes to have any progress, or not (I'm led to believe the former but would like clarification)? If it's the former it seems the severely hamstring your possible party set-ups, if it's the latter then why bother having these broken combos/items lying around. Other then for a person to just lol at how broken they are, which seems...silly.

[Just Another Day]

In our group playthrough (which was probably a better approximation of "normal" play than any one of us playing alone, let alone SCCing), we did a minimal amount of dicking around with poaching. Enough to get cool things, I think we wanted Zorlin Shapes? But nothing too egregious and we didn't go out of our way to get anything particularly broken.

Granted it was a somewhat earlier version of LFT, but I don't recall any insurmountable difficulties with the aftergame stuff (we had some trouble stealing from the last colliery level, and I think one of the early DD uber fights caused us some grief). We didn't do much of the End stuff, did we? But we did Nelveska. Definitely didn't need or do anything too outrageously cheap, and difficulty seemed reasonable to me.

Add me to the chorus of people who think breeding for poaches isn't really a big deal. It's not difficult, but it is both boring and fairly time consuming, which generally stops me from ever bothering (I've poached ribbons all of once in vanilla FFT, out of god alone knows how many playthroughs).

[Laggy]

Chantage is broken. It isn't horrendously hard to get. People can make a conscious choice whether to use it or not. It may not really belong there in a perfect balance overhaul, but it's 1) too iconic for me to remove from FFT and 2) generally considered aftergame, at which point I'm no longer trying to balance things around any particular party setup or power level because the variance is just way too great. Some people will stop and grind for hours and get all their broken toys and/or Non-charge, and some won't. If you feel it's too good and sucks the difficulty out of the game, you're free not to use it (or at least not slap it on every PC in your party).

There is a valid argument to be made that it shouldn't be easily obtainable, but some people genuinely enjoy getting the most ridiculous setups and grinding the game into fine dust. That's their choice and I don't want to take it away from them. It is enough of a detour from the normal gameplay that I'm not worried about people loading on Chantages every playthrough - there is a conscious effort to get that preparation done.

If enough people cared about aftergame balance I could just move it on the poach list, but I think the general concensus is that if you're poaching at all, you want to spend the effort and time sink involved in it in order to get toys. >.>

[Laggy]

Patch updated today because I may or may not have left a 660 damage Lava Ball on Altima during some experimentation.

(not like SCCs totally can't handle that)

Documentation has also all been thoroughly updated to reflect all changes.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Wild Arms of Ozvalice - Reboot

Okay, this one I'm doing from memory. Started over after the most recent patchery. Starting on Sweegy, since Gariland and Mandalia don't count.

Sweegy Woods

No notable surprises here. Tin Man starts as an Archer for the sake of building Charges, Dorothy starts out as a Priest and Strawman beelines for Phoenix Down on Chemist. I'm relying on Dorothy to get spillover JP for Oracle. Lion uh goes Knight for Monk beelining.

Dorter

Archer Tin Man+now I already know that low-offense parties prefer taking the higher ground = little issues.

Sand Rat's Cellar

One reset. Poor initial positioning on my frailer characters meant that I couldn't effectively wall the archers. Second time through, however, things worked out: I managed to get one of the lousy offense Knights stationed with Secret Fist (<Laggy> Secret Fist is op) and things started going smoothly from there. Zombie+Phoenix Down is a lifesaver on C1.

Thieves' Fort

Fairly simple routing here as well. Secret Fist continues to be evil incarnate for this chapter and Tin Man's Ignore Height+evergrowing Charge array means that I can snipe with rather startling ease. Dorothy began her Time Mage trek here. Miluda 2HKOs basically everybody in my party, but it doesn't matter.

Lenalia Plateau

One reset because I FORGOT TO REVIVE TIN MAN on a fight that was otherwise entirely under control. Second time through, things went in a simple manner, though Miluda is a bitch.

Fovoham Plains

No resets? What is this. I set up my party behind the windmill so I can goad enemies into my range safely. Delita killing Boco early and Strawman Paralyzing the Monks and the Oracle also helped. Wiggy had a hilarious status weakness here, but I'll be damned if I remember it. >_>

Zeakden

Another simple fight. I kept Tin Man and Dorothy behind - Dorothy casted Haste from the safety of a house corner while Tin Man waited until he was sped up for mass smash. Oracle and Lion handled the backward support (Silence manhandles the Wizard, Secret Fist is a Knight's bane). Once the setup was done, a couple staff thwacks and a Charge +7 from Knight Tin Man ended the fight for good.

Dorter 2

Um wow. This fight was easy in the end, but the Archer going to the rooftop made the whole thing more annoying than it had to be. A decisive Zmobie+Cure combo handled the girl, though.

Araguay Woods

Kinda lol.

Zirekille Falls

Rather trivial. Delita with Holy Explosion, Ovelia Mbarrier spamming and Agrias borderline solo this fight.

Zaland Fort City

I decide to save Musty! Not a problem, of course, once I realize Dorothy has REFLECT to handle the pesky Wizards. Hilariously, this was the defining factor on my victory. After that, it was mostly mopup, although that Two Hands Battle Bamboo-wielding Oracle was -scary-, nearly OHKOing Tin Man midcharge.

Bariaus Hill

Scary on paper, but Secret Fist+Paralyze works wonders. Tin Man's offense+move also means that I can deal with the Geomancers safely.

Zigolis Swamp

Mostly irrelevant. The Flotiball was annoying, but Strawman sports Petrify and Sleep from now on.

Goug

One reset here due to poor control of the Summoners. The second attempt, which marks the true premiere of a L5 Mime Toto on plot fights, went far better. Silence Song on the Summoners, obviously, is crucial, and I spread my forces around to lower the impact of Summons while they were flying around. Sleeping one of the Archers early was also useful.

Golgorand Execution Site

This is where things start getting ugly. Three resets on this fight, all of them primarily because the Archers are evil evil evil. The winning attempt had me forgoing Samurai Tin Man and going back to Knight, since I -needed- somebody who could take monstrous amounts of punishment. I had Strawman and Dorothy head towards the Time Mage while patching up wounds/statusing anyone in range while under the influence of Haste. Lion spent some time Stopping random targets with Talk Skill before going down, but once I had some targets neutralized, getting him back on his feet was simple. A Charge +7 Toto thwack also manhandled the sleeping Gafgarion, which was when the battle tides turned to my favor. The Knights were kinda bitchy to the end, though.

Lionel Castle

I don't think I've ever took such an approach to this fight. Dorothy (if you haven't figured out, Dorothy is Ramza) has literally no offense besides her staff thwacks, so she needs to stall Gaffy out. I had her set up so she wouldn't get 2HKOed by Gaffy's Night Sword - that was all I needed. First, I landed a Don't Move on Gaffy (lasts longer than Stop and is cheaper) and just kept away, reapplying the status as necessary. Half my party also had Rubber Boots, spoiling the archers nicely. Lion opens with a Secret Fist on the left monk girl, while Toto also Secret Fists somebody else due to good positioning. Tin Man just took his holy duty as a Samurai to chop Summoner heads, while the other Summoner ate a Silence. Once mopping up was done, I had Toto move towards the gate and I tossed a stray Sleep so Toto could hit Gaffy through the gate. It worked, at which point Dorothy opened the gates and Gaffy got OHKOed by a Tin Man thwack while sleeping - but not before waking up and OHKOing him once midcharge (he was already damaged). >_>

Quekky

Two resets. My offense sucks pretty badly in this party and Tin Man has bad affinity with Quek to boot. I mostly relied on Queklain spamming Nightmare and healing Death Sentence/Sleep with Lion while the kids made their advance. Shutting down the Knights was also imperative here. The third run, I had the fight under complete control, relying on Toto and Tin Man to add up their offense. Dorothy was dead by the time Toto landed the killing blow, but who cares. Hilariously, Toto is now entirely caught up with my party, who's running uniformly on L15.

[Laggy]

Apparently there's been a good deal of development done in the way of ASM edits. Tonfa and I were eyeing these changes as he's working on the Complete patch and we're wondering if anyone has any particular comment on the following:

* Oil fix. ZOMG. 2x damage from Fire.
* Blade Grasp nerf - limit it to range 1-2 physicals (so that guns/arrows/books/harps/etc. still go through)
* Arrow Guard buff - can block gunshots along with arrows (really, these two would go hand-in-hand if anything)
* Brave/Faith Up buff - change amount of Br/Fa gained from +3 to another number (we're thinking +5 or +6)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Apparently there's been a good deal of development done in the way of ASM edits. Tonfa and I were eyeing these changes as he's working on the Complete patch and we're wondering if anyone has any particular comment on the following:

* Oil fix. ZOMG. 2x damage from Fire.
* Blade Grasp nerf - limit it to range 1-2 physicals (so that guns/arrows/books/harps/etc. still go through)
* Arrow Guard buff - can block gunshots along with arrows (really, these two would go hand-in-hand if anything)
* Brave/Faith Up buff - change amount of Br/Fa gained from +3 to another number (we're thinking +5 or +6)

The only one I feel truly strongly about is fixing Oil (YESYESYES). The changes to Arrow Guard and Blade Grasp are sensical - I don't really feel very strongly either way, but I feel the tandem changes would be pretty positive in terms of balance (more defined niches instead of a very clear overpowering). I believe Blade Grasp might stand a lowered cost if that happens, though, and Arrow Guard might stand to go up a bit.

Brave/Faith buffing to +5 is slightly pointless (and it buffs 4, being a 4/1 for permanent buffing). +4 accomplishes the same permabuffing effect in practice except in protracted fights (It takes 4 castings for +5 to outpace the effect of +4, for instance). +6 accomplishes more in that sense - 2 castings = 3 permanent Brave/Faith, compared to 1/1 ratio casting on the original. You may not like making Brave/Faith twinking easier, though, although it's still a pretty noticeable commitment either way. +5 is a more elegant number but feels mostly padding, +6 is more relevant but may be a notable and undesirable raise in the accessibility of Br/Fa twinkery.

[Dark Holy Elf]

* Blade Grasp nerf - limit it to range 1-2 physicals (so that guns/arrows/books/harps/etc. still go through)

If you do that, make sure you lower its JP cost. I don't really consider it an amazing reaction ability as is, so removing one of its key uses (arrow spoiling) would probably leave it underpowered unless you make it more accessible.

Sounds interesting enough otherwise. What does "1-2 range physicals" mean? Are blindfired crossbows still nulled? Short-range jumps? Various monster abilities? etc.

[Laggy]

Uh, good question. I can't answer without testing. If you want to name a list of criteria you'd want to be checked, by all means.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Hmm.

-Blindfired crossbow/etc.
-Throw (at range 1-2? At range 3+?)
-Jump (ditto)
-Some monster attack. Checking the countergrasp list, all monster attacks currently affected are melee anyway.
-And I'd assume Battle Skill/Charge are affected if their weapon normally is, but couldn't hurt to be sure.

[Laggy]

Tonfa is demanding that Toad Rod become +3 PA to compensate for Start: Oil now being a drawback rather than a benefit.

[SageAcrin]

I object to Blade Grasp on the grounds that LFT has pretty much passively balanced it by focuing much more on skillset and skillset options.

The main issue with it is that it walls some classes(Knights) and it'll do that either way. Range won't solve the issue and the skill isn't all that great in LFT.

Now if you could make Hamedo nail anything Range 1 and on the Blade Graspable list but nothing beyond that, that I'd like to see, as it would make the ability distinctly different. (I suppose limiting Blade Grasp does as well but only if you run it with a bow or gun.)

Tonfa is demanding that Toad Rod become +3 PA to compensate for Start: Oil now being a drawback rather than a benefit.

Make it add Don't Act and Don't Move(You can stack statuses on weapons, right? I don't recall there seeming like there was a reason you can't when I looked. DA alone would work.) instead so that it mimics the effect of the Battletoads giant rod weapon smashing people into the ground.

*nods*

Wait, it already adds Toad already. Just one then.

[KelogBites]

Apparently there's been a good deal of development done in the way of ASM edits. Tonfa and I were eyeing these changes as he's working on the Complete patch and we're wondering if anyone has any particular comment on the following:

* Oil fix. ZOMG. 2x damage from Fire.
* Blade Grasp nerf - limit it to range 1-2 physicals (so that guns/arrows/books/harps/etc. still go through)
* Arrow Guard buff - can block gunshots along with arrows (really, these two would go hand-in-hand if anything)
* Brave/Faith Up buff - change amount of Br/Fa gained from +3 to another number (we're thinking +5 or +6)

My thoughts on this since I'm a Scrooge who hates fun. Oil fix, dear god yes! I'm for nerfing Blade Grasp, seeing as how it makes sense thematically that it blocks only well, melee attacks and it is very very good at that as it is, good enough that there is no point using Arrow Guard (which while coming from an easier class to unlock is 100% overshadowed by 97br Blade Grasp) and it seems that the patch is intending you to diversify in your abilities. Map has a lot of ranged attackers who are more powerful then melee? Arrow Guard. Map has mostly melee attacks? Blade Grasp. Instead of just being, Map has physical or map has magical. I like choices. The JP may need to be lowered slightly but I'm unsure on this, it isn't very difficult to make those JP anyway.

Brave/Faith Up buff, I'm against this. Generally grinding up/down Brave/Faith to optimal levels is something that is well, optimizing...and grinding. It rewards you with an advantage for pouring time into it. Making it easier to max out your Brave isn't really something I'd get behind. Not too sure on Faith since it doesn't reward you quite as much for maxing it out (being a double-edged sword and all).

[Just Another Day]

Apparently there's been a good deal of development done in the way of ASM edits. Tonfa and I were eyeing these changes as he's working on the Complete patch and we're wondering if anyone has any particular comment on the following:

* Oil fix. ZOMG. 2x damage from Fire.
* Blade Grasp nerf - limit it to range 1-2 physicals (so that guns/arrows/books/harps/etc. still go through)
* Arrow Guard buff - can block gunshots along with arrows (really, these two would go hand-in-hand if anything)
* Brave/Faith Up buff - change amount of Br/Fa gained from +3 to another number (we're thinking +5 or +6)

Agree with NEB by and large.

On Brave/Faith, in response to KelogBites, I agree vaguely that twinking brave/faith to their extremes is not one necessarily worth encouraging, but if these abilities are going to exist at all it seems to me that they should be usable. +4 would be ample (the +3 is so damn insulting), but I see no reason to object to +5 or 6; you're sacrificing a reaction rather than an action for a small transient benefit and and even smaller permanent one, I don't see that as particularly more of a problem than existing methods.

I don't really think you should, but if for some reason you were really concerned with brave twinking, you could always turn Brave Up into Faith Down (lose 4 faith per hit)... Some mediators find god after getting punched in the face, some become atheists. Makes sense to me.

[KelogBites]

I agree that sacrificing a reaction ability to ease up the twinking may seem like a loss. But by the point most sane people do Brave/Faith twinking it's quite late in the game where random encounters can be beaten with 1 person easily (I leveled up most of my characters in mime aside from Ramza pre-aftergame). Changing Brave Up to Faith Down is something I can strongly agree with. Nuking Faith is pretty easy as it is (Threaten takes off 4 faith per cast while Praise f.e only raises by 1) so making a relatively quick process even quicker is okay by me. Raising the totals to +4/-4 is a reasonable change, I agree.

On the Toad Rod, I really can't understand why. Putting 3 PA on a spellcaster weapon that starts you off with a 'not all too dangerous' status effect makes no sense to me. Mostly because, who the heck would actually benefit from that 3 PA? Seems un-necessary.

[Just Another Day]

Makes rod-beats while fishing for status effect activation slightly less wimpy, especially earlygame (it is early-game, right?) when you're more likely to run out of MP. Improves Punch Art and Elemental as secondaries on mage-types, which I think is positive.

[KelogBites]

Still seems using an elemental rod coupled with corresponding spells would edge out over a highly situational rod. I suppose I'll run a Wizard SCC to check out if I find a use for it somewhere.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I doubt the Toad Rod is likely to see much use on a Wizard SCC, which puts all the focus on females using Black Magic. It's more likely to see use on someone who has already gotten Punch Art or Elemental and is stopping by either to unlock Bard or Calculator or pick up a mage-side ability like Fly/Teleport/MP Switch, or just someone who wants to make a silly setup.

It's not likely to become an objectively great weapon, but at least it's more interesting than the old Poison Rod used to be.