LFT: An FFT mod (The final release is a lie. Download here!)

[metroid composite]

Oh, one more question: can you do Critical-Teleport (i.e., when you're in critical status you have Teleport)?  That'd be an arguably cooler option for earlygame teleport.

[Laggy]

Unfortunately not.

I'm probably going to pass on the Crit-Move-Thing just due to the additional work involved for Tonfa's sake. Short Charge working with Charge I'd still like to mull on further.

[Tonfa]

Honestly the one ASM hack I would like to see the most would be Oil fix.

[Redmage]

I am playing with the prepatched iso, and I have noticed a couple things:

4th Chapter Ramza can not equip ribbons or perfumes, despite the change notes indicating that he should. (I haven't tried bags.)
Ramza can not learn Ultima if he's hit by the spell from it proc'ing from an Ultima Bow. This might be intentional.

That aside, the hack is fantastic. It's everything I wish FFT originally was.

[Redmage]

Since this thread is filled with battle reports and the like, I'll add my own:

I get into a random fight so I can poach a Wildbow I've bred. I bring the Wildbow, McGile my Secret Hunt Lancer, Ramza (mediator with guts), Agrias (chemist with holy sword) and Rachel (oracle with white magic). McGiles is there to poach the Wildbow, and the others are there to take care of any actual enemies.

This shouldn't be noteworthy. I'll poach the pig, and then kill a couple Cuars or Skeletons or whatever. No problem.

The enemies I'm against are... six Morbols and a Vice President. Oh yeah, now that I'm in chapter four I can start getting in super battles.

Well fuck!

I start by having my mage lay down protect and shell on everyone. Ramza and Agrias beat the nearest Morbol to death, and I think I might actually pull this off.

VP Richard then casts a terrifically polygonal spell that brings the Morbol back to life at half health. Then another Morbol walks up to the injured one and uses Chakra to bring it back to full health.

Well fuck!

But then I remember, my Lancer has Secret Hunt. If I have him poach  Morbol, it will be dead forever.
Well, no. The Morbols are all guests, and can't be poached. Richard brings the dead but not poached Morbol and two others I've killed back to life. One of the recently resurrected Morbols uses Chackra again.

I have a change of plans. I need to bring down Richard first. His perma wall and move HP-up are intimidating, but I think if I get him surrounded I should be able to hammer away at him.

Before I can get everyone in position, Agrias has a lucky Crush Punch, autokilling Richard.

 

My Lancer kills a Morbol and injures another. Ramza books the injured Morbol to death. My Mage was surrounded and killed, but Agrias takes advantage of three of the remaining Morbols being so close together, and manages to Lightning Stab them, killing two.

This leaves one Morbol at less than half health, and one at full health. My mage has 2 on her death counter, but I should be able to clean up the last few enemies before she permanently dies. My Wildbow died unpoached, but to hell with that. Winning against the VP is worth more than some perfume.

It's Ramza's turn, and I move to have him wish my Mage back to life. Agrias and my Lancer kill the Morbol who was at full health. There's only one enemy left, and it's at half health!

Oh, and by the way, Richard the great Vice President of the United States is undead, and comes back to life at full health when his death timer empties.

WELL FUCK

Agrias is in range to Crush Punch Richard again, but auto-death doesn't proc.

Richard revives every Morbol.

Ramza and firends die horribly.

gg

[Laggy]

JUST AS PLANNED

Anyway Ramza likely can't equip the female equips because you're not using him in Ubersquire. He only gets those additional equip options in that particular class.

That said it is fantastic to hear battle logs and testimony from new players as always and thanks for taking the time to post here! How'd you stumble upon the place, out of curiosity?

[metroid composite]

I'm probably going to pass on the Crit-Move-Thing just due to the additional work involved for Tonfa's sake.

Fair.  (Honestly, it seems like it would either be a pretty bad earlygame ability, or an ability that's useable lategame but requires various other rebalancing like changing Chantage again).

Short Charge working with Charge I'd still like to mull on further.

Sure.

Doing more math...

Quick correction, actually, looks like I was doing "Ceiling" when I should have been doing "Floor".  Also, the short charge table assumed the existence of a Charge+8, which doesn't exist.  The previous table (10 WP, 10 base XA) actually should be...
0ctr: 130, 100
1ctr: 160, 130
2ctr: 170, 150
3ctr: 180, 170
4ctr: 200, ---
5ctr: 210, 200
6ctr: 220, ---
7ctr: 240, ---
8ctr: ---, 300
9ctr: 260, ---

Dropping this to 5 XA (i.e. the lowest you are ever likely to get--most classes achieve this or higher by level 1)...
0ctr: 60, 50
1ctr: 90, 80
2ctr: 100, 100
3ctr: 120, 120
4ctr: 130, ---
5ctr: 140, 150
6ctr: 160, ---
7ctr: 170, ---
8ctr: ---, 300
9ctr: 200, ---

And finally, raising this to 20 XA.  These are reasonable aftergame numbers:
0ctr: 260, 200
1ctr: 290, 230
2ctr: 300, 250
3ctr: 320, 270
4ctr: 330, ---
5ctr: 340, 300
6ctr: 360, ---
7ctr: 370, ---
8ctr: ---, 400
9ctr: 400, ---

So...moral of the story, Short Charged Charge+20 is good (although not at super high levels, where 8ctr is too much).  This is not too surprising; we initially had it at 17 ctr, but made it faster...not because it needed a boost, but because it was only useable in Chapter 1 and 2, and we wanted it to crush some Chapter 3 as well.  Honestly, we may want to stop treating C+20 with kid gloves if we let it work with Short Charge--Short Charge will keep it useable through Chapter 4.  Or not--it is pretty much the selling point of the Short Charge setup (outside of "mage archer" setups) so maybe it should stay good.




Ok, that's the easy part.  Let's talk about C+20 Calcs.  And dictionaries in particular.  The best storebought Dictionary has 16 WP.  You can probably count on the calc herself having like...3 XA at level 20; 4 XA if she uses a Power Sleeve or Wizard Robe or is level 30+, so let's go with 4.  (20+4)*16 = 384.  With Attack Up, that's 512.  Now, this damage number doesn't bother me too much.  It's high, but whatever; you're half speed, low health, etc.  What does bother me is the range--particularly the infinite vertical tolerance on Dictionaries.  If you want to Teleport 2 into a bunch of enemies and melee them, be my guest, go out in your hilarious blaze of glory!  ...But Dictionaries let you T2 on top of a cliff and safely pick off an enemy.  That's...kinda gross.

...On the other hand, restrict to sticks and we're a-ok.  You can't hide behind a cliff when you attack with a stick--much more Kamakaze Blaze of glory ^.^.  Also, the C+20 damage is lower (300 with Octagon Rod; 396 if you use Attack Up)--low enough that late Chapter 4 enemies aren't OHKOed.

EDIT: Oh right: Two Hands.  Sticks are going to hurt a lot more than I thought (like 600 damage).

[superaielman]

Two hands doesn't stack with charge, MC?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It does, but that's class-specific - only Samurai can use that IIRC. For all that having those calcs out wouldn't be bad (psssssssst mc).

EDIT: Two Swords as well, but that's also class-specific: Thief, Ninja and MALAK.

EDIT2: I'm specifically talking about Short Charge+Two Hands/Two Swords here, if that wasn't clear.

[Laggy]

Calcs have innate Non-charge, so I'm not really sure what you people are talking about. Setting Two Hands/AU would be pretty much assumed on any Calc setup involving Charge.

Also, mc: Books can be Two Handed now, so try doubling that numbers to 768. It's kind of obscene. I'm not sure how to balance around it. >_>

[metroid composite]

It does, but that's class-specific - only Samurai can use that IIRC. For all that having those calcs out wouldn't be bad (psssssssst mc).

EDIT: Two Swords as well, but that's also class-specific: Thief, Ninja and MALAK.

EDIT2: I'm specifically talking about Short Charge+Two Hands/Two Swords here, if that wasn't clear.

Yeah, totally overlooked Two Hands; my bad, realized that an hour later and rushed back to edit.  Just double the Attack Up numbers to get that value (so...768 for the dictionary, 600 with the stick).  And just for the hell of it: Equip Gun Mythril Gun gives 224 damage.

The issue here is that Non-Charge is a calc innate, so calcs can stack another support ability on top of it.  I'm not sure if there's really a way around this.  Well...if you get rid of all weapons, then you encouage male calculators with Two Swords Fists, which really isn't that threatening.  (I don't believe Bags are two-handsable, and even if they are, random damage means they're not an auto-KO).  Actually maybe that's the answer: Calculators can no longer equip sticks or dictionaries, but can equip AXES!!! >_> <_<

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

... >_>

[Laggy]

Alternatively they could use Charge+20 Stone Gun with Equip Gun. *nod*

[Dark Holy Elf]

Taking books away from calculators does feel like it solves at least some of the abuse. Yeah, Two Hands Charge+20 Calculator can still do 600 damage with a stick, sure... at awful speed/durability, and a whole bunch of cross-class shenanigans (lots of time in archer, time spent unlocking samurai and gaining JP there, then going across the tree and unlocking Calc). This doesn't feel abusive. Dictionaries feel like they have a bit more potential for evil due to the higher WP and range.

Alternatively you could just smack dictionary WP around some; they do sound quite good in other ways, especially with Mediator's high stats in both PA/MA to negate their biggest disadvantage.

[Laggy]

The other idea I was toying with was dropping Charge+20 down to, say, Charge+15 (probably with 13 CT?). Books probably need to be dropped from Calculator regardless if this change goes in but this would ramp down the numbers some further.

I'm kind of against dropping book WP. They're pretty niche as is (sticks still preferred on Oracles, staves still preferred on TMs, and Mediators are in no danger of being too good). It's also a weapon class that doesn't get enough representation (only 3 storebought versions, kind of late to come around). It's not like people were using them on Calcs beforehand, so them being removed there doesn't bother me too much.

[metroid composite]

Alternatively they could use Charge+20 Stone Gun with Equip Gun. *nod*

576, yes, but slow as molasses (remember, your CT stays 0 until someone un-petrifies you, so you waste your first turn and their first turn.  And then you launch into calc speed after that).  Also doesn't really make use of Teleport 2, in that gun users don't care about teleporting into melee range, or teleporting behind someone to get around evasion....  Realistically, I'd look more towards Equip Bow Perseus Bow for the powergaming version.  "only" 400ish damage, but can do Secret Clothes, Sprint Shoes, and Thief Hat without sacrificing Auto-Haste.

The other idea I was toying with was dropping Charge+20 down to, say, Charge+15 (probably with 13 CT?). Books probably need to be dropped from Calculator regardless if this change goes in but this would ramp down the numbers some further.

Yeah; one of my more extreme suggestions I was considering was dropping the high end altogether and having C+10 be the high-point (and adding in like...C+8 or C+9 in exchange).  Given the way calcs work, this cuts damage almost in half (because they're getting all their damage from +20 rather than their own stats).

[Redmage]

JUST AS PLANNED

Anyway Ramza likely can't equip the female equips because you're not using him in Ubersquire. He only gets those additional equip options in that particular class.

That said it is fantastic to hear battle logs and testimony from new players as always and thanks for taking the time to post here! How'd you stumble upon the place, out of curiosity?

Ramza can equip female accessories as a Squire, my mistake.

I heard about LFT after it was mentioned in a FFT playthrough on the Something Awful forums. After hearing about what was changed, and watching a Dailymotion video of a R4M player going against the Vice President, I decided to try it for myself. Searching the web for "LFT FFT" then lead me to this thread.

[metroid composite]

Quick poll of the group:

How would people feel about swapping Calc's innate Teleport 2 with innate Teleport?

(Balance-wise it would handle most of the C+20 concerns...but it's more of a question of "would this be less fun?"  Quick gameplay notes--you'd be able to combine it with movement abilities like Move+3, or just combo Move MP Up and Quick for infinite movement.  So...calcs would still have insane movement options, just...you'd have to work for it and there wouldn't be a PC class with Teleport 2 anymore).

[superaielman]

Disagree with it strongly. So much of the Calc class being awesome is tied into the movement. I enjoy the hell out of the teleport 2/non charge option, even with hideous calculator stats attached.

[Nephrite]

I personally don't see why changing it to Teleport is much of an issue. By the time you'd have Calculator you'd have some advanced Move+ something, I'd think.

[metroid composite]

I personally don't see why changing it to Teleport is much of an issue. By the time you'd have Calculator you'd have some advanced Move+ something, I'd think.

I don't want to get too heavily into balance talks (we have multiple other ways to balance Calc Charge; I'm more interested in the qualitative reaction rather than the quantitative reaction...if that makes sense).

But to answer your question, probably not.  M+1 is a 400 JP Knight ability.  M+2 is an 800 JP Thief ability.  M+3 is a 1200 JP Bard/Dancer ability.  It certainly takes longer to get Move+3 than it takes to unlock Calc.  Move+2 is...maybe half the cost of the Calc unlocks, but there's very little overlap; it's a big detour.  Move+1 is pretty easily gettable yeah...but also not a guaranteed pickup for a mage.

[Grefter]

Could always just give Calcs a usable base movement amount.  Giving Calc a risk/reward based movement skill is thematically appealing as well, so certainly an option.

[Laggy]

I heard about LFT after it was mentioned in a FFT playthrough on the Something Awful forums. After hearing about what was changed, and watching a Dailymotion video of a R4M player going against the Vice President, I decided to try it for myself. Searching the web for "LFT FFT" then lead me to this thread.

It seems like that thread is locked now, though, sadness. That's cool to hear nonetheless. How did most of the normal game scale for you in terms of difficulty?

[Fudozukushi]

I heard about LFT after it was mentioned in a FFT playthrough on the Something Awful forums. After hearing about what was changed, and watching a Dailymotion video of a R4M player going against the Vice President, I decided to try it for myself. Searching the web for "LFT FFT" then lead me to this thread.

It seems like that thread is locked now, though, sadness.

It's only temp-locked to contain a derail.

EDIT: And of course it's now back open since I said this.

[Redmage]

How did most of the normal game scale for you in terms of difficulty?

When I had trouble, it was usually in places I didn't expect it, or for reasons I didn't expect.

I expected Barius Hill and Lionel Castle Gates to be trouble due to the Summoners, but the Geomancers and Monks were much more dangerous.
I thought the two new undead knights in the Queklan fight would be trouble, but the improved range on the cure spells took them out easily. Queklan was much more a threat, with his improved speed and durability.
Wiegraf 2 gave me trouble, but not so much because of Wiegraf as because of the Geomancers. I ended up buying everyone Float through spillover JP.
The Velius fight gave me the most trouble. Velius having high HP meant that I couldn't take him down so fast, which meant the Archaeo Demons have more time to be troublesome.
An other fight that gave me a lot of trouble was actually Poeskas Lake. Oracles are nasty.
Zalera was actually not to bad. He was difficult, but since I went into the battle expecting him to be I didn't have so much trouble. My Black Mage was surprisingly helpful in the fight.