LFT: An FFT mod (The final release is a lie. Download here!)

[Grefter]

Is no problem.  Easy to miss that.  Other people were clearly worried about Robe nerf there on Knights as well.

[metroid composite]

Hmm, it was the Bolt 3 in the undead forest.  Hit me and Rafa, with a 4x damage diff.  Both had neutral to lightning, Rafa had neutral Zodiac while I had worst is how I believe it went, but my memory is fuzzier as to exactly why I should have been hit for about 50%.

Not the first report of this, but we have no clue what the hell is going on.  Almost certainly another error a-la Knights not being able to equip Robes.

Tell us everything you can remember (class/equipment/etc) hopefully it's something easy to fix like "accidentally added elemental weakness to something that shouldn't have it".

[Dark Holy Elf]

Rafa, had equipment on but I don't recall what for sure... . Musk Rod / Holy Miter / Wizard Rod / Germinas Boots at a guess, but I'm really not sure about that accessory at all unfortunately (not 100% on anything else either). Could also have been Red Shoes or Magic Gauntlet or Elf Mantle or a number of other things.

[Just Another Day]

Do we still have our pre-Riovanes save? That'd make it easy enough to check.

[Magetastic]

I'd say that if Excal weren't here, I could try and check, but the memory card for it is with the elf. However, I'm fairly certain that Rafa was almost entirely unchanged--equipment and everything. Was there something on her that we took before that battle? I don't remember that being a 'yes,' but I could be wrong.

Also, about the raw damage, I remember us calculating that it did a little more than 2x damage to Rafa, when even the raw(before 2x, and with definite neutral zodiac) damage for her was off. It was a big deal, and we spent a fair bit of time on it. Excal took proper damage, and Rafa took about 2.1-2.2x damage, despite neutral zodiac.  (310 when it should have been roughly 145) I can't see it being a flag of any equipment in particular, though, as we've equipped the same equipment she had on, and had lightning tossed at us, and it was proper damage. Could it possibly be a flag on Rafa herself?

[Excal]

Wasn't aware we had actually cared enough for a statement of who got the right amount of damage.

Anyways, default Rafa is true enough.  For my own Setup, I was in the middle of scrambling to get Concentrate at that point, so I was Archer with Windslash Bow.  As for specific equipment, I'll try and remember what I had on.  As I recall, Power Sleeve was definatly one of the pieces, and either Green Beret or Twist Headband for hat.  As for the accessory, could have been anything since I wasn't calcing it up.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Cyril definitely took normal damage, so no need. Rafa definitely took 2x (not 2.1x). I'm certain Rafa didn't have all her initial equips, because she didn't have a White Robe.

[Magetastic]

Well, if we still have the pre-Riovanes save, we can still check it out. Anybody know if we do or not?

[Laggy]

Problem solved. Culprit is Wizard Robe (despite me checking the thing twice; I was looking at the equipment mod screen rather than the actual hex flag it was calling.)

Going to upload an updated version sometime this week.

Tentatively:

* Knights became able to equip Robes again
* Platinum Sword, Ice Brand and Rune Blade's WPs decreased by 1 (to 11/12/13 respectively)
* All spears (except Holy Lance and Javelin2) got Armor Break as an autocast
* Javelin2 got Dark Holy as an autocast
* Perseus Bow got Quick as an autocast
* Bloody Strings' WP decreased from 26 to 20, availability changed to Ch2 Meet Draclau, 10000 -> 5000 gp
* Ramia Harp's WP increased from 20 to 30, availability changed to Ch4 Start, 5000 -> 10000 gp
* Byblos got MBarrier on its skillset
* Energy changed to inflict Wall and Reflect at 100% chance, swapped from Byblos into Work skillset

Documentation Fixes
* Swordskills' elemental properties removed from documentation (faulty info)
* Ruins' SP values fixed to CT

Encounter Changes
* Wiegraf 3 now has 97 Brave and MP Switch instead of Counter. 108 Gems swapped back to Diamond Armlet; lowered his PA by 1. Chakra added to skillset. MP nerfed (....why did he have an MP mult of 150? Seriously?)

[Magetastic]

Well then. That all works very nicely.

Though, does that mean that Perseus Bow will occasionally cast Quick on somebody/thing when they're hit with it?

[metroid composite]

So it WAS the Wizard Robe after all.  Good to know my instincts there were right.

Well then. That all works very nicely.

Though, does that mean that Perseus Bow will occasionally cast Quick on somebody/thing when they're hit with it?

Yes.  It's a downside to the weapon.  Or upside if you're Quickening >_>

[Dapifer]

I am not sure if I am the right guy to say this... pardon my n00bness in advance...

But, why do Spears get Armro Break? I figure Axes or even Flails are more thematic to deliver "crushing blows" than Spears, not to mention Spears are unique, they enhance the Jump damage and they have 2 panel range, do they really need Armor Break?

I am almost sure I am missing something here, because frankly, I am not an expert, nor even a savant on FFT, I am just some regular gamer that happens to enjoy FFT very much, so really, excuse my comments if they are out of line, I am liking a lot of the changes so far, specially the luv that recently has rained upon the Katana, and I am liking the Thieves more and more, anyways, In my VERY humble opinion, I believe armors need more luv than Spears, because the bonus that Clothes offer seem far better. Well, that's about my two Gils on the subject, again, I apologize if my comments are out of line, and even if you disregard them completely I would still think this patch is great n_n

[Excal]

Despite the name, armour break will hit clothing and robes just as effectively as it will hit armour.  As for why Armour break on spears, it was a suggestion passed along to the devs of the patch for something to help spears beat out swords that would fit flavourwise, since spears and polearms have generally had two historical uses.

1) Being the weapon you give to masses of foot soldiers acting as a unit, whether they be trained like the Greeks, or untrained fodder as most of them are after that.  or,

2) A weapon meant for use against a knight, specifically a few of them made to help work like a can opener so that the peasant mobs could better get through the hard shell and reach that squishy noble filling.  So, it's less crushing power (Slasher does a fine job of conveying that, what with the insane WP and Added Effect: Death, implying things getting hit by that sucker don't remain things for much longer) and more being designed to counter armour tanks.

[Laggy]

Gameplay-wise they also serve to encourage Lancers more, as they're still somewhat an underplayed class.

Armor Break is also actually inferior to the flails' Shield Break in that most units will have armor... and breaking armor is generally inferior to just physically attacking (definitely inferior in the case of an autocast - you're best breaking equipment when they're at full HP), whereas most units don't have shields, and that translates into an extra hit.

It also doesn't enhance Jump, which upping the WP would have done (and trampled on Axes' niche there). Also giving the basic physical some more leeway as opposed to Jump further encourages actually using the Lancer class (or Equip Spear, but that's a much harder sell).

As for armor vs clothes.... armor is pretty much flat out worse, yes, and that just factors into balance. Heavy armor classes have their armor selection as a drawback. It's not a universal case where you'll ALWAYS pick clothing over heavy armor because you don't have that luxury all the time.

[metroid composite]

I suppose it's my turn to play devil's advocate--the discussion started "people still aren't playing that much Lancer, lets throw more carrots at the problem."  I still feel the problem with Lancer had nothing to do with power level, and everything to do with how boring/interesting they are to play.  And Armor Break doesn't really make them more interesting to play at all.

Though...really, it isn't a big deal one way or another gameplaywise, and Excal's historical argument makes sense to me.

(or Equip Spear, but that's a much harder sell).

Equip Spear is fine, thanks.  You know how Equip Sword was like the best choice for every class to boost their damage in the Chapter 4 table I posted a while back?  In Chapters 2 and 3 Equip Spear beats Equip Sword for damage (before we consider range 2 and Jump boost bonuses).  Granted, not including Thief/Ninja, because Spears can't be Two Swords (but certainly including Samurai, because Two Hands does work with Spears).

There's nothing wrong with Equip Spear as-is (it wasn't seen in our previous playthroughs as we left it at 400 JP; should be fine at 200).

As for armor vs clothes.... armor is pretty much flat out worse, yes

I dunno--we've run into quite a few situations in LFT where the optimal setup involved equipping for HP.  Armor does have the most HP, and it's like...an 80 HP gap between the best armor and Power Sleeve; that's not a small gap.

[Dapifer]

Mmmm... after a second look, almost every weapon got something "special", so Spears needed something, but for me Spears were always great because of the 2 panel range, and a Jumping Ninja did benefit form Equip Spear(I think). So I agree now that Spears needed an extra "spice" on them, like the Axes and Flails and Katana now.

I did notice Clothes have less Hp, but I found that late game, Hp is not that big of a factor, but if Accumulate has taught me something, one more PA on the right attack changes a lot, maybe is because I always have at least two good healing units with me(one primary, like Black Mage with White Second, and one secondary, like say Ramza with Draw Out and plenty Katana on stock) so as long as I don't get OHKO'd I am OK, but I am getting OHKO'd now more than before, admidetly, due to some Kamikaze action of my own =P, still I think Armors need a little luvin', although I completely see Laggy's point, Armors are more like a draw back, but I think it wasn't like that or at least it shouldn't, of course, in LFT it is completely justified, Knights are supposed to be tanks, because of their Innates, they are, Lancers spend most of their time in the Air so they don't need to be, and Samurai got buffs(Draw Outs, and some Katana buffs).

I guess I kindda realize Armors are good now as I write this... funny how the mind works isn't it? as you see the words in the screen you get a whole new perspective, should just delete the whole post and admit my mistake =P

Anyways, I am sorry for my comment, I see it was completely off base, best leave the discussions to the ones that know what they are talking about 

[metroid composite]

No, there's legitimate reasons to be not entirely happy with armor right now, but it has less to do with "power level" concerns, and more to do with...armor is really dull.  What's the difference between this armor and that armor?  This one's HP+90 and that one's HP+100.

The problem is that the list of things that armor can logically boost is pretty short:

Speed, Move, Jump: no Armor does not make you more agile.  Next.

PA: no Armor does not make you swing harder than loose-fitting clothes.  And you'd throw off the balance between heavy armor and light armor classes.

MA/MP: In every D&D setting, armor actually inhibits spellcasting.  I could maybe see argument for MA (magic armor?) but not MP.

Auto-Reflect: already on an armor.

Auto-Shell: Really insanely good.
Auto-Protect: Really insanely good.
Auto-Regen: Not as insane, but still a big upgrade

Half: element -- I'd be fine with having one armor half one of each of the 8 elements.  The issue here is that this is 8 equipment bonus slots (we actually had an armor with Half: Wind, but that got removed when we ran out of space for other equipment effects).

Block: status -- see above.  That, and people's level of caring for status blocking isn't that high (Black Hood stops two statuses, and I'm not sure we ever used it).


So...yeah, your instinct was right, just...interesting armor hasn't really fit in LFT due to a combination of class balance concerns, thematic concerns, and space concerns.

[Grefter]

No need to delete posts.  Discussion is good.

To be frank though, spears may have always had 2 range and boosted jump, but these benefits just suck.  The reason to use Equip Spear over anything else in default FFT is pretty shite considering to get that far down the tree you need to have passed Equip Sword.  Setting Equip Spear and Jump is sacrificing way more utility than it is really worth.  So when you come down to it, if you have to use Spears with Jump to get any use anyway, the 2 range is totally bunk.  2 range is good, but spears are just shit.  Spears are not Sticks no matter how much they are similar.

Not sure how I feel about adding Auto-break just after you nerfed Battle Skill though, but I guess there isn't that many enemy Lancers.

[Excal]

Food for thought, if there weren't space concerns at least and possible code issues, one or two armours which have better benefits than the others, but which come paired with Move/Jump or Speed -1.  Ie, give an Auto-Protect or Auto-Shell Armour that comes with a built in Speed Nerf.

Not sure how possible/effective that would be.  But it would certainly be somewhat thematic at least.

[metroid composite]

Food for thought, if there weren't space concerns at least and possible code issues, one or two armours which have better benefits than the others, but which come paired with Move/Jump or Speed -1.  Ie, give an Auto-Protect or Auto-Shell Armour that comes with a built in Speed Nerf.

Not sure how possible/effective that would be.  But it would certainly be somewhat thematic at least.

Can't do negatives.

Actually, the part that really made me sad was when we realized we couldn't get an MA+1 accumulate because all the MA changing moves in the game are MA-X (except Sing, which is it's own beast).  So...yeah, general frustration at the inability to flip the sign on stuff.

Of course, negative statuses are an option.  Always: Slow, Always: Silence, Always: Poison, Always: Blind, Always: Innocent are the ones that could work.

[Excal]

Always: Haste/Poison?  Hmm, might work in a system with better poison.

Always: Innocent seems like it'd be good if Item wasn't already so very useful.  That said, Slow does look brutal enough that you could pair it with some fairly good stuff, especially if it grants effective Haste Immunity.

Maybe something along the lines of Start: Stop or Start: Don't Act, or something else along those lines?

[Grefter]

Teta Mail with Start: Dead.  This is the way.

[Magetastic]

Teta Mail with Start: Dead.  This is the way.

Start: Dead, and give it insane stats just to make it that awesome? (Maybe give it a huge speed boost or Start: Innocent (if that'd even work when you're dead) so it isn't so easy to just bring your little person-sized apocalypse back from the early grave?)

[Grefter]

I was thinking Equip Change stuff here actually >_>  That might all be a bit much with that.

[Magetastic]

Well, the stone gun is awesome. And it has Start: Petrify, right? So you'd need to get around that with Equip Change anyways!