LFT: An FFT mod (The final release is a lie. Download here!)

[Dawglicious]

Okay, just downloaded the patch off the link here to make sure. Applied to fresh ISO, and I see all the new changes. Dawg: is it possible you patched over your fresh FFT ISO at some point without realizing it? I know I've done that before with frustrating results until I realized I had.

Also, since you're still early on, let me know if Gaffy's name in C2 gets all fubared up for you. I STILL don't know what caused him to spontaneously name change into a gigolo.

I really have no idea what the problem is. I know for sure that I have a fresh FFT ISO, and every time I dl the patch and try applying it again I get the same result. It IS patching, but it isn't making the most recent changes. I would say that the link still isn't updated, but apparently that isn't it. Is there any possible way that some changes wouldn't come into effect until later in the game? For now AU is still 600 jp, and Reraise still works with Math skill. This is really odd.

[metroid composite]

Gah, it's irritating to be hitting update errors (and inconsistently, with half of the people getting them).

Anyhow, back to odd whacky statuses on equipment:

Start: Dead+Reraise: What I didn't expect from this one is that you reraise at full HP.  I guess when you're dead from start: dead, you don't actually have 0 HP.  I think I now know what I want Dracula Mantle to be >_>.  (It has uses too--effective invincibility until your first turn).

Always Performing: Don't use this!!!!!  Works a little too well.  In that it starts treating everything as a dance, including stuff with 0 CT >_>.  Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori, Kiyomori....

Always Jump: *snorts* well you never land to take your turn, so I don't see why you'd want to use it (Unless you're doing Chantage abuse--then it's the most broken equipment ever as the enemies can never get you dead).

Start Jump: Works the exact same way as Always Jump, as far as I saw--never come down.

Always Charging: from what I played around with, this seemed to work as expected with no real issues.

[Laggy]

Dawg, worst comes to worst, if you have AIM or some other IM client that can filesend I can try shipping you over the patch (or the patched ISO, even, assuming the former doesn't work. Or e-mail, actually - that ought to work for the patch at least, since it's only a hair below 3mb.)

[Dapifer]

@ Laggy: My recent playthrought from scratch started yesterday, just passed Zirekile Falls, Gaffy never turned gigolo on me as far as I could tell, so I think we are clear on that one.

Reraise is not Math Skill compatible, that is, it no longer has the "curved arrow" that represents this, I haven't unlocked Calcs yet so I don't know for sure, but at least it doesn't look like it.

Starting Dead+Reraise could also work with the Undead Ring, or with some Armor that could be deviced to become Undead related (kindda what you did with the Peace Ring, rename it and retooled to create basically a new item, just a thought, mind you)

@ Dawg: Attack Up is 300 JP. Most likely, as Laggy said, you patched an already patched ISO by mistake, I think we've all been there, no worries, just find a fresh one and use the patch, it has worked flawlessly for me thus far.

[metroid composite]

Starting Dead+Reraise could also work with the Undead Ring

Well...not if you want the undead status on the ring as well.  Reraise and Undead are incompatible--which is to say if you have both statuses and are dead, you're never getting up.  To the best of my knowledge there isn't a single ability that can revive you from that situation, and because you have Reraise your counter never decreases, so you won't get up from being undead either.

[Dapifer]

Oh right... my bad u.u

[Dawglicious]

OK so, I tried applying everything one last time, and now it is working! I am not really sure what was up with it before, but thanks for all the help. I'll report back regarding Gaffy and if he has a new name or not

[Laggy]

Awesome.

Please don't be shy about random feedback with certain fights, etc. I'm still looking for those even this late into the patch, especially regarding difficulty, since most of the stuff I get back regarding that is from our merry Vancouver group and they're kind of hardcore players.

[Dapifer]

Difficulty seems fine, the figths that are difficult are the ones that always have been, like saving Mustadio, I reset 4 times to get it rigth, but that fight(and rescue missions in general) always have that random factor that the guest does what the AI pleases, so you can only prepare so much.

Overall things look better with every new update (for me at least), I said it before and I will say it again, the monsters are just amazing, the random encounters or encounters with monsters like Zigullis Swamps just have an edge that they didn't before, and I like that. Of course that with the correct setups every fight is a piece of cake, but fights that were easy with random setups before are now really hard and surprising, and I welcome that challenge, it gives that "I could die" sense, without being completely overwhelming, or maybe is because I only have Wish to revive now... anyways, I am anxious to play the Beowulf quest I am hearing so much about, will comment on that one when the time comes.

[Taishyr]

Man, that's one thing I wish our run through could have done. Ah well, will try it when I get everything up and running on here again.

[Magetastic]

Awesome.

Please don't be shy about random feedback with certain fights, etc. I'm still looking for those even this late into the patch, especially regarding difficulty, since most of the stuff I get back regarding that is from our merry Vancouver group and they're kind of hardcore players.

I was not aware I had become a hardcore player. As far as I could tell, it was mostly Excal and The Elf that were hardcore.

I will, however, second giving an armour another name and making it start you off dead and with reraise. Maybe switch the armour you unlock with reflect mail (or the one before it?) into that? That way, I was thinking that you have something to look forward to in armours all game aside from "Yay! Hp!" or "Yay! Reflect!" and it'd give some variety in those final armours aside from more hp and reflect, or less hp and no reflect.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Dorter 2 becomes a lot harder with IGNORE HEIGHT ARCHERS and TWO SWORDS THIEVES, and it is awesome.

[Dapifer]

"The spiritual forest... I never wan't to come back again!! - said Ramza on his knees, as he was leaving Yuguo Woods-

Indeed, this was a very tought fight, sure, it could have been easy with everyone equiped with item secondary and throw item, but that would be setting up exclusively for this fight, and I don't play that way, only to steal Genji Gear and to get Ultima I setup specifficaly, otherwise I chose a "theme for a character and set up that way. After two mulligans, finally I beat Yuguo Woods, many times luck turned the tide for my party, but as I recall... this has always been a difficult fight, and I think it should stay this way... Overall the JP costs are what's making this possible, things cost much less, so is easier to seek a specific set up through the series of fights and then stick with it, this also means I am keeping rigurous level restriction to match the enemies in the story battles with my party, the fight it's still pretty doable but with that real sense of danger and need of a bit of luck, wich I really enjoyed. n_n

IMHO, the patch plays better than ever, I am using a female Squire as a carrier for Black Magic with Sticks(excellent idea enabling them for Squires) or sometimes with Yin Yang for control, mostly my male Knight controls the ground if I need to steal or farm for some JP, but I never thought of sticking with a Squire for so long into the game, great job overall and specially with the Monsters, giving them specific and different reaction skills was a strocke of genius, the random fights have never been this fun.

Next Stop: Riovanes, looking forward to see Velius again for the first time.

EDIT: The Duel against Wiegraf was Evil, he has Scream! x_x I had to setup Ramza accordingly and switch Talk Skill for Punch Arts with Martial Arts and Damage Split, and the battle against Velius was a Nightmare, I only remember it being this hard the very first time I played the game. Glorious...

[Laggy]

Okay, since I was curious I went ahead and tallied up the new unit counts (we did this a while back to gawk at the absurd oversaturation of Knights and Archers in vanilla FFT). This is also after some tweaks I've made to C4 in general, which is by far the most changed chapter.


Chapter 1 Encounters
Magic City Gariland: Unchanged (4 Squires, 1 Chemist)
Mandalia Plains: Unchanged (4 Squires, 1 Thief, 1 Red Panther)
Sweegy Woods: Unchanged (2 Goblins, 1 Black Goblin, 2 Bombs, 1 Red Panther)
Dorter Trade City: Unchanged (1 Knight, 3 Archers, 2 Wizards)
Sand Rat Cellar: Unchanged (3 Knights, 1 Archer, 2 Monks)
Thieves' Fort: Unchanged (Miluda, 3 Thieves, 2 Priests)
Lenalia Plateau: Unchanged (Miluda, 2 Knights, 2 Wizards, 1 Time Mage)
Windmill Shed: Knight replaced with Oracle (Wiegraf, Boco, 2 Monks, 1 Oracle)
Fort Zeakden: Unchanged (Algus, 4 Knights, 2 Wizards)

Chapter 1 Enemy Unit Count
Squire: 8
Chemist: 1
Knight: 10
Archer: 4
Wizard: 6
Priest: 2
Thief: 4
Monk: 4
Time Mage: 1
Oracle: 1

Chapter 2 Encounters
Dorter Trade City 2: Wizards replaced with Time Mages (2 Archers, 1 Thief, 2 Time Mages)
Araguay Woods: 2 Goblins replaced by Gobbledegucks, 1 Goblin replaced by Black Goblin (2 Black Goblins, 2 Gobbledegucks, 2 Goblins)
Zirekile Falls: Unchanged (Gafgarion, 5 Knights)
Zaland Fort City: Unchanged (2 Knights, 2 Archers, 2 Wizards)
Barius Hill: Knights replaced with Lancers, Archers replaced with Geomancers (2 Lancers, 2 Geomancers, 2 Summoners)
Zigolis Swamp: Unchanged (random)
Goug Machine City: Unchanged (2 Archers, 2 Thieves, 2 Summoners)
Barius Valley: Archers replaced with Priests, Wizards replaced with Oracles (2 Knights, 2 Priests, 2 Oracles)
Golgorand Execution Site: Unchanged (Gafgarion, 3 Knights, 2 Archers, 2 Time Mages)
Gate of Lionel Castle: Knights replaced with Monks (3 Monks, 2 Archers, 1 Summoner)
Inside Lionel Castle: Added 2 Knights (Queklain, 2 Knights)

Chapter 2 Enemy Unit Count
Squire: 0
Chemist: 0
Knight: 14
Archer: 8
Wizard: 2
Priest: 2
Thief: 3
Monk: 3
Time Mage: 4
Oracle: 2
Geomancer: 2
Lancer: 2
Summoner: 5

Chapter 3 Encounters
Goland Coal City: Unchanged (3 Thieves, 2 Chemists, 1 Mediator)
Back Gate of Lesalia: Knights replaced with Geomancers (Zalmo, 3 Geomancers, 2 Monks)
UBS2: Unchanged (3 Lancers, 1 Chemist, 2 Time Mages)
UBS3: Unchanged (Izlude, 2 Knights, 2 Archers, 1 Summoner)
UBS1: Knights replaced with Geomancers, Wizard replaced with Oracle (Wiegraf, 2 Geomancers, 2 Archers, 1 Oracle)
Grog Hill: Unchanged (2 Squires, 2 Chemists, 1 Archer, 1 Thief)
Yardow Fort City: Unchanged (Malak, 3 Ninjas, 2 Summoners)
Yuguo Woods: Unchanged (2 Wizards, 2 Time Mages, 1 Ghoul, 1 Gust, 1 Revnant)
Gate of Riovanes Castle: Unchanged (Malak, 4 Knights, 3 Archers)
Riovanes Castle: Unchanged (Wiegraf, Velius, 3 Archaic Demons)
Riovanes Rooftop: Unchanged (Elmdor, Celia, Lede)

Chapter 3 Enemy Unit Count
Squire: 2
Chemist: 5
Knight: 6
Archer: 8
Wizard: 2
Priest: 0
Thief: 4
Monk: 2
Time Mage: 4
Oracle: 1
Geomancer: 5
Lancer: 3
Summoner: 4
Mediator: 1
Ninja: 3

Chapter 4 Encounters
Doguola Pass: Knight replaced with Samurai, Wizards replaced with Priests, Archer replaced with Monk, added 1 Monk (2 Lancers, 2 Monks, 2 Priests, 1 Samurai)
Bervenia Free City: Added 1 Ninja (Meliadoul, 2 Archers, 2 Summoners, 2 Ninjas)
Finath River: Unchanged (random)
Outside of the Church: Knights replaced with Samurai (Zalmo, 3 Samurai, 2 Oracles)
Bed Desert: Knights replaced with Mediators, Wizard replaced with Time Mage, Archers replaced with Geomancers, added 1 Time Mage (Balk, 2 Mediators, 2 Time Mages, 2 Geomancers)
South Wall of Bethla: Knights replaced with Samurai, Archers replaced with Mediators, added 1 Thief (3 Samurai, 2 Mediators, 2 Thieves, 1 Ninja)
North Wall of Bethla: Summoner replaced with Dancer (2 Lancers, 2 Archers, 1 Monk)
Bethla Sluice: Unchanged (4 Knights, 2 Archers, 2 Wizards)
Germinas Peak: 2 Archers replaced with Chemists, 1 Archer replaced with 1 Bard, added 1 Ninja (2 Thieves, 2 Ninjas, 2 Chemists, 1 Bard)
Poeskas Lake: 1 Archer replaced with 1 Oracle, added 1 Oracle, added 1 Revnant (3 Oracles, 3 Revnants, 1 Archer, 1 Summoner)
Gate of Limberry Castle: Unchanged (Celia, Lede, 4 Apandas)
Inside of Limberry Castle: Unchanged (Elmdor, Celia, Lede)
Underground Cemetery of Limberry Castle: Unchanged (Zalera, 2 Knights, 1 Skeleton, 1 Bone Snatch, 1 Living Bone)
Inside of Igros Castle: Unchanged (Dycedarg, Adramelk, 5 Knights)
Murond Holy Place: Unchanged (2 Geomancers, 2 Mediators, 1 Priest, 1 Summoner)
Hall of St. Murond: Unchanged (Vormav, Rofel, Kletian)
Chapel of St. Murond: Unchanged (Zalbag, 2 Archaic Demons, 1 Ultima Demon)
UBS4: Knights replaced with Lancers, added 1 Archer (3 Lancers, 2 Archers, 2 Monks)
UBS5: Wizards replaced with Oracles, Summoners replaced with Priests, added 1 Time Mage (Rofel, 2 Oracles, 2 Priests, 2 Time Mages)
Murond Death City 1: Unchanged (Kletian, 2 Time Mages, 2 Ninja, 2 Samurai)
Murond Death City 2: Unchanged (Balk, 1 Chemist, 1 Hyudra, 1 Hydra, 1 Tiamat, 1 Dark Behemoth)
Graveyard of Airships 1: Unchanged (Hashmalum)
Graveyard of Airships 2: Unchanged (Altima 1, Altima 2, 4 Ultima Demons)

Chapter 4 Enemy Unit Count
Squire: 0
Chemist: 3
Knight: 11
Archer: 9
Wizard: 2
Priest: 5
Thief: 4
Monk: 5
Time Mage: 6
Oracle: 7
Geomancer: 4
Lancer: 7
Summoner: 4
Mediator: 6
Ninja: 7

-----

Final LFT Enemy Unit Count
Squire: 10
Chemist: 9
Knight: 41
Archer: 29
Wizard: 12
Priest: 9
Thief: 15
Monk: 14
Time Mage: 15
Oracle: 11
Geomancer: 11
Lancer: 12
Summoner: 13
Mediator: 7
Ninja: 10
Samurai: 9
Bard: 1
Dancer: 1

[Taishyr]

Still a lot of Knights/Archers, but the rest of the classes compensate quite well (it's nowhere near as overwhelming. Just... noticeable. And it'd be hard to switch out earlygame Knights, lategame Knights are... eh, mostly yeah, the other replacements (Lancer/Geomancer/Ninja/Summoner/maaaybe Monk) don't make so much sense.

[Laggy]

I feel like C2 and C4 Knight numbers are slightly inflated by certain fights that have nothing but them (the Falls in C2, and Dycedarg in C4. Both are 5 Knight fights; take off 5 from the final count on those chapters and the numbers don't look as bad.)

But yeah, that said, even with their prevalence it's nothing compared to vanilla FFT, which...

Total Unit Count:
Knight: 62
Archer: 44
Wizard: 20
Summoner: 15
Thief: 15
Squire: 10
Time Mage: 10
Monk: 9
Ninja: 8
Chemist: 8
Lancer: 7
Priest: 3
Mediator: 3
Oracle: 3
Geomancer: 2
Samurai: 2

Yeaaaah.

[Dapifer]

Plus, Knights and Archers in LFT are waaaaaaaaaaay better and more suitable opponents than in Vanilla, the Knights last a lot with the Def+MDef Up, and Archers tend to have Battle Skill and break from afar and with Ignore Height they get to high ground as soon as they can so they are not so easy to kill.

Overall I think the battle changes are for the best, and once again, give it up for the monsters!!  

Not to mention that, story wise, most of the time you are fighting Knights of some sort, whether be the Shrine Knigts or the Nanten, so I don't think having lots of Knights feels odd, maybe put more Lancers and Priests to give variety? But honestly the fights have felt great thus far, let's go Chapter 4!

By the way, regarding Beowulf, can I kill Adramelk and then do his side-quest? I know they are changes regarding it, but it's triggered the same way isn't?

[Laggy]

Yes, the sidequest is still accessed and triggered the exact same way.

[Dawglicious]

Just chiming in to let you know that Gaffy's name is back to normal! Dorter 2 was amusing, since Agrias and Gaffy didn't make any attempt to go after the archers hiding in the corners.

I love the change you made to poison, it is actually useful now, plus it has such a huge range you may have to poison one of your own to get the opponents. Loving this so far!

[Laggy]

Awesome, good to hear.

Yeah, Poison becomes amazingly relevant when you actually hit a ton of things with it, especially Knights. It's caused me resets, too >_>

[Laggy]

So, latest thing on the table for discussion: Draw Out.

I just recently finished a test playthrough (mainly to grab saves before every fight so I could easily check), and I distinctly feel that the skillset is a little bit too good.

Simply put, the damage is really high. We gave Ninjas a large nerf so that rocket tagging people and scoring OHKOs everywhere wouldn't happen so often... but DO barely got nerfed (the recent MAU nerf hit it, but even without MAU a 15 MA character hits for 270 damage with Muramasa.) Ninjas do marginally better damage, but are single-target, have to deal with evasion (unless they set Concentrate), and have to be in melee range. They also don't have an entire support skillset with buffing and healing to add to it.

The main quoted balancing factors to DO are its expense and the fact that you have to wait for better katanas to come out to work on the skillset. Nonetheless, I feel like the monetary cost is a small price to pay for such a versatile and powerful array of abilities, and while DO doesn't really start shining until late C3/C4, it starts becoming ridiculously good at that point.

The way the skillset is built up, it's okay that it's versatile - that is one of its main selling points, after all. It SHOULD be good. But I dislike how much I found myself rushing into a pack of enemies and watching them nearly all crumple to an instant move that ignored all forms of evasion or defense. At the same time, it's already been hit with a damage nerf (Kiku went down to 12 mult, MAU got nerfed) and the main offensive abilities are kind of late (Heaven's Cloud, Muramasa).

At this point I start comparing it to Summon in my head, and note the similarities: ignores evasion, doesn't hit allies, typically high powered damage, versatile. What keeps Summon in check, in my opinion, is the fact that like every magic skillset it takes care to use due to CT charge times. As strong as it is, you can't be reckless with the skillset or you may find your caster dead before she gets a spell off. But DO is pretty mindless; what would keep players thinking more when using it? As is, you use Kiyomori to buff up early on while your formation is still tightly packed, use Kiku for long range damage, Muramasa for raw damage or AoE, Murasame if you need healing that completely laughs at the Cures. Yes, there's a lot of options, but the situations in which you use them are really obvious.

My first thought is evasion. M.Evade doesn't get used nearly enough, and it would be nice to make it relevant. It would also be a different kind of mentality than just a simple damage drop (which is, frankly, kind of boring - with Ninja it happened because that's ALL Ninja is, and there wasn't really much else we could do to change that would make sense). Tested; unfortunately Draw Out uses wacky mechanics that make it not check p.evade or m.evade even if I tag the abilities as evadable.

The second idea, and the one I'm proposing, is to make DO not distinguish between enemies and allies. THIS would make positioning matter a lot more, make it not nearly so mindless when you need to heal a teammate or want to run and lay waste into enemies while possibly catching your teammates in the crossfire. Yet at its core the skillset would still be pretty much the same, just require considerably more care when using the high-damage range 2 AoE abilities. I'm sure I would find myself still using the skillset nearly as much as I did, and it still offers instant, non-faith based damage/healing/buffing rolled into one, while leaving the whole "I ignore allies!" niche to summons.

Thoughts?

EDIT: mc, when you see this, could you quickly crunch some damage numbers for end of C2/3/4 comparing Ninja damage to best DO damage, assuming optimized for PA/MA (or rather PA/speed for Ninjas) and giving Ninja Swords/Attack UP for Ninjas and Geo w/ MAU carrier for DO? Thanks.

[Laggy]

More thoughts from the drive home from work:

Okay, so DO is unimpressive early on. Taking a look at the abilities:

Asura: MA*10, no status, C2
Kotetsu: MA*12, no status, C2
Bizen Boat: MA*8 MP destruction, 6-range line, C2
Murasame: MA*12, healing, C3
Heaven's Cloud: MA*15, adds Dead/Sleep, C3
Kiyomori: Adds Protect/Shell, C3
Muramasa: MA*18, adds Death Sentence/Confusion, C4
Kiku: MA*12, 6-range line, C4

DO doesn't really get going until C3, where it picks up several key abilities. That said, what if the 2-range AoE drawouts were rearranged to 11/13/15/17 multipliers, with status addition of Dead/Sleep/Confusion/Death Sentence respectively? (That is, Asura would Add: Dead, while Muramasa would Add: Death Sentence, etc.)

This 1) makes DO look more attractive early on, as 25% lethal/pseudolethal status in an AoE along with damage (improved from before) is a noticeable improvement from now and 2) makes you actually have a reason to use Asura/Kotetsu later on for reasons other than money saving. And generally making the skillset more interesting is the goal here.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Hey Laggy:

So we bought Platina Dagger and Bamboo Rod on the next playthrough, and they were running off of MA and PA respectively, instead of vice versa. Nt sure why this is happening.

[Taishyr]

Mage knifing of the gods? I approve.

[metroid composite]

No time to crunch numbers on Ninja v Samurai, but...Ninjas are fast.  This is an incredibly important part of what makes them good.

If you want a Samurai comparison, compare damage to Summon Magic.  Yes, DO is instant with no MP cost, but at the same time it's short range and small area.