Author Topic: My-Hime Mafia  (Read 60181 times)

Sierra

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #200 on: December 04, 2008, 07:48:24 PM »
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This is the main reason I don't want to lynch Alex regardless of Tom's flip.

That sentiment from Kilga bothers me . The overly-ecstatic comments from earlier in the day, when people were suggesting that being so far ahead, it's okay to relax a bit, also bother me.

It is a rather odd thing to say as a blanket statement. I don't think a significant number of people are suggesting that we go right out and lynch Alex tomorrow if Tom flips town today, if that's what's bothering you, Kilga.

Strago

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #201 on: December 04, 2008, 07:50:41 PM »
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This is the main reason I don't want to lynch Alex regardless of Tom's flip.

That sentiment from Kilga bothers me . The overly-ecstatic comments from earlier in the day, when people were suggesting that being so far ahead, it's okay to relax a bit, also bother me.

Halfway agreed. If Tom does flip Town -- which, hey, I still don't think he will, but it's not like I haven't been wrong a million times in these games -- there will definitely be some questions about Alex. That doesn't mean we should immediately lynch him without asking those questions and getting some answers, though.

Also, and my head is filled with enough mucus right now that maybe I'm just a big thickie, but still: we've seen that there was a Godfather in the game. Doesn't that necessitate a Cop to counter it, at least in a fairly average role setup the likes of which we... seem to have, given Carthrat's description of the semi-openness? I know that trying to suss out the power-role landscape this early in any game is usually a dopey thing to do, but Occam's got a Razor and we've got no counterclaim against Alex.

Heh, reading back over that I feel like I'm processing the most boneheadedly simple points. Helps me to think everything through and write it out right now, though.

Strago

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #202 on: December 04, 2008, 07:52:34 PM »
I don't think a significant number of people are suggesting that we go right out and lynch Alex tomorrow if Tom flips town today, if that's what's bothering you, Kilga.

Yeah, I was working from the assumption that this was Kilga's concern as well, if that wasn't clear.

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #203 on: December 04, 2008, 07:58:22 PM »
Also, and my head is filled with enough mucus right now that maybe I'm just a big thickie, but still: we've seen that there was a Godfather in the game. Doesn't that necessitate a Cop to counter it, at least in a fairly average role setup the likes of which we... seem to have, given Carthrat's description of the semi-openness?

Not necessarily. Personally, I'm not making any assumptions about what roles we're looking at here (beyond there not being anything that's not on Rat's list, of course, but that's more being certain of what's not in the game). There have been games without cops, I think, even in fairly normal setups.

Waugh, need to look at Andy still. Doings keep transpiring.

Bardiche

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #204 on: December 04, 2008, 08:01:34 PM »
Since I'm convinced Alex is Town, or at least strongly lean against that he is Town I am much more inclined to go with his Cop Claim and get EvilTom out instead.

##UNVOTE: Excal, since the point's been properly driven home and... Well, last vote-check puts Tom at L-2. I... am not really willing to count whether this is the correct number and certainly don't want to accident-hammer.

Requesting votecount and remaining time left for the day.

Yeah, being a sloth is a vice but eh.

Ranmilia

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #205 on: December 04, 2008, 08:08:53 PM »
Awake again, back again.

My mind boggles at the current discussion.

As far as my other suspicions go, they were based on a reread of day 1 with Tom and Sopko's alignments in mind.  Was just trying to toss something else out there for folks. 

Kilgamayan

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #206 on: December 04, 2008, 08:09:38 PM »
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This is the main reason I don't want to lynch Alex regardless of Tom's flip.

That sentiment from Kilga bothers me . The overly-ecstatic comments from earlier in the day, when people were suggesting that being so far ahead, it's okay to relax a bit, also bother me.

It is a rather odd thing to say as a blanket statement. I don't think a significant number of people are suggesting that we go right out and lynch Alex tomorrow if Tom flips town today, if that's what's bothering you, Kilga.

I think two things happened here:

- I misremembered how many people I saw talking about it and erred on the side of inflation.
- I added people already voting for Alex into the mix.

So okay, yeah, I overreacted a little bit there. The only people I saw on a quick re-read were Corwin sorta backhandedly suggesting it here...

(b) Tom is town, and we choose whether to believe Alex the next day or not. Either we'll confirm his alignment as a cop, or we'll get our second scum.

...and Bard outright suggesting it here:

If we lynch EvilTom and he flips Town, we will need to lynch Alex to be sure of his alignment.

Speaking of, I'd actually like to vote for Bard at this point for both this sentiment and an apparent relapse into useless journalism mode (here,  here and here, for example), but I recognize that Alex/Tom needs to take priority.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Excal

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #207 on: December 04, 2008, 08:11:27 PM »
Bard, there's still more than 24 hours remaining in the day, that much I can tell you.

That said, I've caught up and most of my doubts about Alex are gone.  Especially since, despite how much his flip might tell us, I'd really much rather find out by testing his claim on someone who isn't quite as vital to town.

Also, Bard, in regards to why I was more interested in my side thing.  It's because I really was hoping for a role blocker, irrationally so I suppose.  Regardless, had that been the case, it would have meant, like I said earlier, that we'd have nailed scum 100%.  Sadly, the actual resolution is utterly inconclusive (or does have answers, but not ones which benefit Town to be talked about and so I'm dropping this thing like a radioactive potato) so yeah.  I get to stand here and look silly.

You may also have noticed that although I said I was going to think about it as I was leaving, I had also shown signs of musing it over before I left.  Most importantly in the aspect of admitting that whatever else had happened, I had been wrong in my earlier paranoia and that the Alex scenario I had earlier mentioned no longer fit as I had put it.

And...  honestly, the same facts that led me to a conclusion of scum Alex fit just as well with Cop Alex, so...  I'm pretty good with a Tom lynch.  Congrats, Alex, you convinced me.

##Vote: Dread Thomas

Bardiche

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #208 on: December 04, 2008, 08:19:44 PM »
Speaking of, I'd actually like to vote for Bard at this point for both this sentiment and an apparent relapse into useless journalism mode (herehere and here, for example), but I recognize that Alex/Tom needs to take priority.

- First post I clearly said I was at school and didn't have the time for drawn out thoughts.

- Second post I am clarifying my position on Day 1 things.
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I'm not going into in-depth responses to Day 1, partly because I think it's irrelevant (and distracting) at this juncture to dig up old arguments. I will, however, go over them briefly.
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This is not to say I completely agree with his cases, but I get a town vibe from him. Don't really see the anti-Xanth arguments.
I'm certainly not going to hold his walls of texts against him.
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I get the impression from Day 1 that it's a misunderstanding about him, but given Day 2 his posts can be somewhat interpreted as scum... I'm just not seeing it much
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I doubt scum'd do that, so I'm inclined to attribute a town vibe to Corwin and Strago. Kilga's ignoring of Sopko strikes me as a little odd.
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El Cid straddling up the case against Sopko with a vote. I don't like the "I'm going to see..." attitude there, though. Strikes me as though El Cid doesn't care about the result. Did it with Kilga (see where this goes), then late Day 1 goes the same way with Sopko (let's see who follows). If it's a scum gambit to get town cred, it is a massive one; WIFOM there though, but I'm inclined to think of El Cid as notScum.

- Third post. Breaking down what I think of the Alex case and, indeed, observations of what I think has happened - at this juncture it is possible for you to correct me where you believe I am misinterpreting the other.
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I'd be more wary of him if he hadn't jumped on Tom as quick as he did. Whether his case is strong or not? I'm tempted to say it's not that solid, but it beats the Xanth case by a margin.
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His one-track approach is pretty... It makes me wonder. I'm not sure yet what I dislike about it other than that if we lynch him we have jack shit to work with, excusez my French.

... I note at this juncture that I find Excal a bit odd in discarding Alex's copclaim and accusation of EvilTom as "not important" and taking priority with finding out why the nightkill didn't occur. More on him later.

Reading over EvilTom's defense of himself, something clicks to me that may seem bizarre to you folk. Namely this:

If we lynch Alex and he flips Cop, we will likely lynch EvilTom.
If we lynch Alex and he flips Scum, we will likely not lynch EvilTom.
If we lynch EvilTom and he flips Scum, we will likely not lynch Alex. He will probably be either killed by Scum or Roleblocked, what have you─Tom brings up a good point about the roleblock, though. It might happen─I would buy arguments that Scum expected a Doc guarding Alex if EvilTom flips scum but... that's so WIFOMy.
If we lynch EvilTom and he flips Town, we will need to lynch Alex to be sure of his alignment. This is very risky, and I can't imagine why scum would take this gambit since it almost certainly nails him down.

I think Alex is seriously convinced he's nailed scum, and I think EvilTom's seriously convinced he's notScum, since he presents indeed a scenario in which case Alex will die if he dies.
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That said, I favor an EvilTom lynch over an Alex lynch. However, I don't really have anything to hold against EvilTom beside the Cop Claim against him, so consider that a "Rather Tom than Alex, but if possible? Neither of them".

Clearly that's not a possibility since the sentiments would linger for the next day if this continues and... bah. The risk Alex is taking seems too great for me to say, "He must be diverting/gambling, lynch him".

I trust Alex's Cop Claim and think it pertinent to lynch EvilTom: either we confirm Alex's sanity or lynch Scum. If Alex is Scum, I see no reason why he would divert from the then pertinent Xanth case:

1) Xanth is Scum. If Alex diverts, what does this gain them? It's a massivehueg risk that I don't think Scum is likely to entertain. It's too risky, unless Xanth is Scum with a SUPER OMG ROLE... but then it must be a role that doesn't even allow them to kill someone at Night. No matter how you flip it, I doubt two Scum would throw themselves away to save Xanth.
2) Xanth is Town. Why the hell would Scum divert attention from Town? I can't find any satisfying answer to this.

So yeah, I'm pretty sold on Alex = Town.

I discard your accusation on the prime basis that I have drawn conclusions from what I've written. If it was reporter-isque in meaning I would not have given you my interpretation of what has occured/is occuring and draw a conclusion from it.

Strago

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #209 on: December 04, 2008, 08:23:35 PM »
Requesting votecount and remaining time left for the day.

Yeah, being a sloth is a vice but eh.

AMAZING, STUPENDOUS, STRAGO-BRAND VOTE COUNTS!!![/i][/shadow]
Not the real thing, but a remarkable simulation! Nine out of ten Moderators can't tell the difference!

Affinity: Kiro
Kiro: AndrewRogue
Xanth: El Cideon, EvilTom
EvilTom: Sir Alex, Xanth, Strago, El Cideon, Kilgamayan, Excal
Sir Alex: AndrewRogue, EvilTom, Corwin
Corwin: EvilTom
Excal: Bardiche

Strago

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #210 on: December 04, 2008, 08:24:46 PM »
god dammit how was I supposed to know shadow can't be used in conjunction with marquee my career as an internet salesperson is ruined

Corwin

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #211 on: December 04, 2008, 08:29:11 PM »
It's pretty clear that the majority wants to gamble on Alex. Alright, then. I'll change my vote to get us the results when Rat wakes up in a couple of hours, unless there's some sort of last-minute objection to that. If so, please include the reason for extending the day.

Sierra

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #212 on: December 04, 2008, 08:35:57 PM »
Cor: Personally, I think it only makes sense to hear last words from Tom. Just in case.

I have something to add myself but, again, I have reason to wait until we're ready to hammer to say it. Will wait and see if there are objections to hammering in the near future (next few hours) first.

Bardiche

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #213 on: December 04, 2008, 08:39:24 PM »
Thanks Strago.

----->

I really should read ninjas when I post.

Also, Bard, in regards to why I was more interested in my side thing.  It's because I really was hoping for a role blocker, irrationally so I suppose.  Regardless, had that been the case, it would have meant, like I said earlier, that we'd have nailed scum 100%.  Sadly, the actual resolution is utterly inconclusive (or does have answers, but not ones which benefit Town to be talked about and so I'm dropping this thing like a radioactive potato) so yeah.  I get to stand here and look silly.

You may also have noticed that although I said I was going to think about it as I was leaving, I had also shown signs of musing it over before I left.  Most importantly in the aspect of admitting that whatever else had happened, I had been wrong in my earlier paranoia and that the Alex scenario I had earlier mentioned no longer fit as I had put it.

Your hope for a roleblocker is... irrational indeed, that you prioritize possibility in favor of what's been concretely put in our faces.

I must've missed those signs. You've been rather reserved insofar as commenting on the relevant matters go, though. I note your Day 1 activity was there, but little of it actually seemed keen on scumhunting. The only real vote you placed was on Sopko after things went awry for him. Your continued behaviour in that regard Day 2 makes it even look worse.

I won't hold your lack of a vote Day 2 against you─that'd be unfair given my own vote record, and I am already straining the reaches of courtesy by holding it against you Day 1 when I was hardly present for the first Day. I justify it to myself only as your activity being there despite no vote.
But despite that, I still hold your lack of... lack of actual scumhunting against you.

---->

Also since I realized I completely forgot Kilga's "this sentiment" clause... I assume you mean the one where I state that:

Lynching Alex immediately brings clarity on Alex's alignment, and by extension sheds light on EvilTom's alignment if Alex flips Scum.
Lynching EvilTom as he flips Town means Alex is either Insane Cop or Scum, we can't be sure unless we lynch him.

But you are right in that the sentiment can be expanded towards "or we leave him alive for another day (or two) and see whether or not he gives any investigative results that are better to work with", but I didn't incorporate the possibility that Alex dies into the equation. I... may be too free in assuming the existence of a protective role, but given Cid's statement that he was attacked it means either Cid's got innate protection or he was protected and I like to think of the latter.

----->

I'm willing to drop the Hammer if there are no objections and everyone who needs to be heard/wants to be heard has had their say.

At the moment I'm personally interested in Affinity, Kiro, EvilTom and AndrewRogue. To a lesser degree also Xanth. The first four aren't in on the EvilTom train, the last one is but hasn't been here for this latest bout of discussion/the time I've now been active.

Excal

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #214 on: December 04, 2008, 08:41:50 PM »
Well, I'm off to work, so I won't be around to hear this stuff then.  But I guess I'll see if I can somehow drop by.  This proclaimation of Cid's is curious.

Bard Edit: Meh, we had 36 hours left in the day.  Waiting a bit on Alex in hopes of something better is not a huge issue.

Corwin

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #215 on: December 04, 2008, 08:43:29 PM »
Fair enough, Cid. Going to bed, so it'd have to be something else who ends then day, then. As long as we don't waste the entire 24 hours waiting on the deadline to pass it's all good.

Kilgamayan

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #216 on: December 04, 2008, 08:53:11 PM »
- First post I clearly said I was at school and didn't have the time for drawn out thoughts.

A wise man once said, "Even scum can have RL excuses". The fact of the matter is that the first post I linked to is nothing but a recap, which is not at all useful for anything and fits the reporter style to a T.

- Second post I am clarifying my position on Day 1 things.
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I'm not going into in-depth responses to Day 1, partly because I think it's irrelevant (and distracting) at this juncture to dig up old arguments. I will, however, go over them briefly.
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This is not to say I completely agree with his cases, but I get a town vibe from him. Don't really see the anti-Xanth arguments.
I'm certainly not going to hold his walls of texts against him.
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I get the impression from Day 1 that it's a misunderstanding about him, but given Day 2 his posts can be somewhat interpreted as scum... I'm just not seeing it much
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I doubt scum'd do that, so I'm inclined to attribute a town vibe to Corwin and Strago. Kilga's ignoring of Sopko strikes me as a little odd.
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El Cid straddling up the case against Sopko with a vote. I don't like the "I'm going to see..." attitude there, though. Strikes me as though El Cid doesn't care about the result. Did it with Kilga (see where this goes), then late Day 1 goes the same way with Sopko (let's see who follows). If it's a scum gambit to get town cred, it is a massive one; WIFOM there though, but I'm inclined to think of El Cid as notScum.

I get a sense of wishy-washy-ness in here. Even when you lay down any stances that you do, they are usually presented in an unsure-of-yourself tone that could give you the opportunity to change your mind quickly and easily.

Not to mention your point on me is completely wrong and your thought process on Cid is hard to follow given you start with disliking his attitude and end up "inclined to think [he's] notScum".

- Third post. Breaking down what I think of the Alex case and, indeed, observations of what I think has happened - at this juncture it is possible for you to correct me where you believe I am misinterpreting the other.
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I'd be more wary of him if he hadn't jumped on Tom as quick as he did. Whether his case is strong or not? I'm tempted to say it's not that solid, but it beats the Xanth case by a margin.
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His one-track approach is pretty... It makes me wonder. I'm not sure yet what I dislike about it other than that if we lynch him we have jack shit to work with, excusez my French.

... I note at this juncture that I find Excal a bit odd in discarding Alex's copclaim and accusation of EvilTom as "not important" and taking priority with finding out why the nightkill didn't occur. More on him later.

More wishy-washy-ness. What is his one-track approach? etc.

Reading over EvilTom's defense of himself, something clicks to me that may seem bizarre to you folk. Namely this:

If we lynch Alex and he flips Cop, we will likely lynch EvilTom.
If we lynch Alex and he flips Scum, we will likely not lynch EvilTom.
If we lynch EvilTom and he flips Scum, we will likely not lynch Alex. He will probably be either killed by Scum or Roleblocked, what have you─Tom brings up a good point about the roleblock, though. It might happen─I would buy arguments that Scum expected a Doc guarding Alex if EvilTom flips scum but... that's so WIFOMy.
If we lynch EvilTom and he flips Town, we will need to lynch Alex to be sure of his alignment. This is very risky, and I can't imagine why scum would take this gambit since it almost certainly nails him down.

This is a Bunch-O'-Duh™ (minus the last idea because it's very very wrong) and not an actual opinion.

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That said, I favor an EvilTom lynch over an Alex lynch. However, I don't really have anything to hold against EvilTom beside the Cop Claim against him, so consider that a "Rather Tom than Alex, but if possible? Neither of them".

Clearly that's not a possibility since the sentiments would linger for the next day if this continues and... bah. The risk Alex is taking seems too great for me to say, "He must be diverting/gambling, lynch him".

I trust Alex's Cop Claim and think it pertinent to lynch EvilTom: either we confirm Alex's sanity or lynch Scum. If Alex is Scum, I see no reason why he would divert from the then pertinent Xanth case:

1) Xanth is Scum. If Alex diverts, what does this gain them? It's a massivehueg risk that I don't think Scum is likely to entertain. It's too risky, unless Xanth is Scum with a SUPER OMG ROLE... but then it must be a role that doesn't even allow them to kill someone at Night. No matter how you flip it, I doubt two Scum would throw themselves away to save Xanth.
2) Xanth is Town. Why the hell would Scum divert attention from Town? I can't find any satisfying answer to this.

So yeah, I'm pretty sold on Alex = Town.

Getting better on presenting opinions, but it's worth noting that you say you would rather not lynch Alex or Tom if such is an option (and, accordingly, throw down a vote for Excal later), but still "think it pertinent to lynch Tom". If it's pertinent to lynch Tom, why not vote for him then?

I discard your accusation on the prime basis that I have drawn conclusions from what I've written. If it was reporter-isque in meaning I would not have given you my interpretation of what has occured/is occuring and draw a conclusion from it.

Reporter-style doesn't necessarily mean you don't provide any opinions at all, it means that you don't provide any/many solid opinions. You seem unsure of yourself at times (maybe this is an inherent tone thing and you're just naturally unsure of yourself in this game or something, but it's not a good thing to be doing in this game) and then start contradicting your own opinions when you finally do start putting some feeling behind them.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Bardiche

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #217 on: December 04, 2008, 09:10:45 PM »
A wise man once said, "Even scum can have RL excuses". The fact of the matter is that the first post I linked to is nothing but a recap, which is not at all useful for anything and fits the reporter style to a T.

The "wise man" argument is really invalid because, guess what? So does Town. Being at school isn't an inherently scummy attitude.
And no, I really didn't say much on it. I can't and won't really excuse it. Surprisingly I don't really find it something lynch-worthy myself─would it have been fine if I hadn't posted at all? I often wonder whether I should or shouldn't communicate, and if the answer to the previous question is "Yes", then that seals that deal for me.

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I get a sense of wishy-washy-ness in here. Even when you lay down any stances that you do, they are usually presented in an unsure-of-yourself tone that could give you the opportunity to change your mind quickly and easily.

Not to mention your point on me is completely wrong and your thought process on Cid is hard to follow given you start with disliking his attitude and end up "inclined to think [he's] notScum".

I can't be sure of anything in a game where manipulation and deceit reign highly. The only person I can trust is myself, so I'm quite sorry if I cannot be certain of "HE'S SCUM" or "HE'S TOWN". Even if I did solidly place my stances in such a manner I could still change them quickly and easily - after all, the game is deceit and trickery. Solid ideas don't mean jack shit if something suddenly changes and you find yourself second-guessing yourself. To me, the matter is entirely moot and I fail to see the problem. I am only dead-certain of people if I can be sure of myself that nothing they say changes my mind.

I explicitly called him "notScum" - I don't want to panic monger, but Rat promised no 3rd Party at less than 14. That makes me think that 14 and higher yields a 3rd party, and complete apathy to yes or no nailing scum could indicate a third party.

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More wishy-washy-ness. What is his one-track approach? etc.

His immediate assault on DreadThomas with disregard for other cases. Everyone's arguing about Xanth and Alex goes, "I think Xanth's completely Town, come lynch Tom!" That's... one-track to me.

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This is a Bunch-O'-Duh™ (minus the last idea because it's very very wrong) and not an actual opinion.

Yep. I state the obvious. I do this. Guilty as charged. It is indeed not an actual opinion, but I'm not even going to contest that - if you want to lynch me for that, I'm not even going to bother defending because that's such a trivial thing to me that I disregard it as being worth a dime.

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Getting better on presenting opinions, but it's worth noting that you say you would rather not lynch Alex or Tom if such is an option (and, accordingly, throw down a vote for Excal later), but still "think it pertinent to lynch Tom". If it's pertinent to lynch Tom, why not vote for him then?

Because I hadn't counted the votes, primarily, and because I also wanted to spend some time on Excal who I also suspect of scumminess. And yes, it is important to lynch Tom to clear up the matter lest it chases us for the rest of the game, or until Scum offs either of them, or someone clears Alex or whatever.

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Reporter-style doesn't necessarily mean you don't provide any opinions at all, it means that you don't provide any/many solid opinions. You seem unsure of yourself at times (maybe this is an inherent tone thing and you're just naturally unsure of yourself in this game or something, but it's not a good thing to be doing in this game) and then start contradicting your own opinions when you finally do start putting some feeling behind them.

Explained above. I'm not going to put down things with dead certainty if I am not dead certain of them because I do not know who I can trust. Until proven otherwise nearly all of you are eligible scum to me, and even those who're likely not scum could still be scum employing a rather keen ploy. I don't know.
I also don't like presenting my opinion as a fact. I think, feel, consider things. I don't like saying, "Alex is Town", I prefer "I think Alex is Town", because that's my belief, not that of the masses. If that's not what you meant I do not understand.

Sierra

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #218 on: December 04, 2008, 09:32:59 PM »
Wow, Bard/Kilga craziness. I'm not up to wading into this right now, but I do wish to correct the following statement:

I explicitly called him "notScum" - I don't want to panic monger, but Rat promised no 3rd Party at less than 14. That makes me think that 14 and higher yields a 3rd party, and complete apathy to yes or no nailing scum could indicate a third party.

The rules state that there will be no third party roles with less than 13 people, not 14. Thirteen is exactly what we had at the start, so it is actually possible. (Where does the number 14 keep coming from? Is there something I overlooked in the opening post?)

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #219 on: December 04, 2008, 09:35:11 PM »
Darn right I'm one track on Tom, I have a scum result on him. 

There is really not much else I can say to all this though.

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #220 on: December 04, 2008, 09:38:43 PM »
The rules state that there will be no third party roles with less than 13 people, not 14. Thirteen is exactly what we had at the start, so it is actually possible. (Where does the number 14 keep coming from? Is there something I overlooked in the opening post?)

... Good question. I read it somewhere in the thread. Guess it stuck with me. I recalled we hit the right number, read the thread, caught fourteen somewhere I think and that stuck in my mind.

Thirteen, then. Doesn't invalidate my comment, just shows a little inattentivity/scattermindedness on my behalf.

AndrewRogue

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #221 on: December 04, 2008, 10:06:38 PM »
First and foremost, for the people who are interested in me, what exactly are you interested in? I can't do much to address your interest in me if I don't know where it is stemming from. :p

On the subject of Alex vs Tom, despite my reservations about him at this point (nothing he has said has particularly assuaged my concerns), I would MUCH rather risk a non-cop. I will, of course, be back on Alex's back if Tom flips town, but there isn't anything more that can really be done with this at the moment.

I would like to hear at least one more post from Tom, but unless there is some startling revelation, I'm all for lynching him over Alex.

On the subject of my breakdown post: Idly, I was not attempting to seriously imply that all three of Kiro/Alex/Xanth were actually scum, just that all three (and any combination thereof) had, I feel, a reasonable chance of being scum based on the end of the day actions. On similar notes, my decision to move from Kiro to Alex is motivated by the fact that Kiro, essentially, provided the best answer he could, and Alex's movements were more offensive to me. So, essentially, I got what I wanted from Kiro (some sort of answer) and moved on.

Excal: Thank you. Now, for prosperity!

The line you reference.

Quote
-Somebody has to make the second vote eventually. Generally speaking, I find scum want to avoid doing it, since it tends to draw attention.

What you actually said about it.

Quote
I do find it vaguely amusing that in a post that contains a vote against someone for what generally amounts to metagaming, Andy does some of his own with the Scum never vote second line, which frankly seems far more dangerous than noticing general traits of people like Xanth attempted.

Does anyone else notice the slight discrepancy? To spell it out, he misrepresented what I actually said. I simply noted that, in general, scum want, in general, to avoid putting the first second vote since it tends to draw attention. He gently twists it around and turns it into me making a dangerous metagame statement and saying that scum never drop the second vote. Could be just a slight error of phrasing or a misunderstanding, but it jumped out at me when I first saw it. I simply made a general game theory statement (that I admitted isn't always true, thanks to the power of the word generally) and Excal latches onto it as something more dangerous than Xanth's noticing of general traits (when, really, my statement amounts to the exact same thing, just with sides rather than specific individuals).

Carthrat

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #222 on: December 04, 2008, 10:09:15 PM »
Day 2 votecount!

Cop sanity would flip on death.

Affinity (0): Kiro
Kiro (0): AndrewRogue
Xanth (0): El Cideon, DreadThomas
DreadThomas (6): Sir Alex, Xanth, Strago, El Cideon, Kilgamayan, Excal
SirAlex (1): AndrewRogue, Dread Thomas, Corwin
Corwin (1): Dread Thomas
Excal (0): Bardiche

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. About 24.5 hours remaining.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 10:19:29 PM by Carthrat »
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Sierra

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #223 on: December 04, 2008, 10:10:08 PM »
Darn right I'm one track on Tom, I have a scum result on him. 

There is really not much else I can say to all this though.

Meh. I suppose if things are dying down then we can hammer soon (still wouldn't mind seeing last words from Tom first. Again, just in case). In any event, I may as well get out of the way what I've been alluding to: I believe I have a plan which stands a good chance of disproving Alex's claim tomorrow if it's actually a lie (something which might otherwise take days to be sure of). It may be risky to post about the plan at all just because it lets scum know that something's up, but I need Alex's complicity here and outright asking is the only way I can get it. I've taken scum interference into account anyway. In most scenarios, it doesn't invalidate the results. In short, I need Alex to investigate a specific player tonight. If he is genuinely a cop, it's already a safe bet that scum will be messing with him tonight, so I think there's no great risk in openly asking; I don't think that much information will unduly influence their actions, though I'm not going to explicitly state the target here--scum don't need to know everything we're doing. Instead, I'll just note that it's someone I've been known to talk about a lot and of whom I have a notoriously low opinion. I'm sure Alex can make the proper inference from that. I'll ask everyone else not to speculate on this openly; it can't help us at all. The less scum have to wonder about, the better.

Excepting a scum flip from Tom--which mostly renders questions of Alex's honesty moot since he'll have been as good as his word (though I wouldn't mind doing this even in that scenario, just to be doubly sure of his sanity)--I stand a good chance of picking up on it tomorrow if Alex is fabricating investigation results. It's not 100%, but I think it's worth a shot.

Sierra

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Re: My-Hime Mafia
« Reply #224 on: December 04, 2008, 10:16:02 PM »
First and foremost, for the people who are interested in me, what exactly are you interested in? I can't do much to address your interest in me if I don't know where it is stemming from. :p

I actually went back and reread your posts and couldn't really qualify whatever it was that had got my attention before. I'm going to have to chalk it up to one of those gut feelings I've found so unreliable in the past.