My-Hime Mafia

[Strago]

Around. Typing.

[Strago]

You do realize this sort of thing does not help you at all, right?

Duh, I'm at L-1 with a scum verdict. I'm not doing all this to survive, I'm doing this so that after my flip you guys will have something to work with, other than feeling stupid.

Funny, because you aren't doing much more than calling us stupid.

Also, and my head is filled with enough mucus right now that maybe I'm just a big thickie, but still: we've seen that there was a Godfather in the game. Doesn't that necessitate a Cop to counter it, at least in a fairly average role setup the likes of which we... seem to have, given Carthrat's description of the semi-openness?

My Anonyscifi mafia had a godfather, a miller, and no cop. There was another game recently that had a similar setup. There might not be a cop.
Even if Alex is an insane cop, I still think we should lynch him anyway.
Obviously I have a vested interest, but I've given you an objective reason why.

More to follow!

This is a fair point.

Halfway agreed. If Tom does flip Town -- which, hey, I still don't think he will, but it's not like I haven't been wrong a million times in these games -- there will definitely be some questions about Alex. That doesn't mean we should immediately lynch him without asking those questions and getting some answers, though.

Worst case scenario is you lynch me, I flip town, he says "oops I'm insane", then you lynch him and he also flips town. That's 2 dead town.
Best case scenario, you lynch me, I flip town, then you lynch him and he flips scum - 1 dead town and 1 dead scum - but this will not happen because he will worm his way out of it tomorrow.
Alternatively, lynch Alex, and you have either 1 dead scum, or 1 dead insane cop and 1 confirmed town, or 1 dead cop and 1 confirmed scum.
This situation is much better.
Of course the DL always blindly believe every cop claim, and scum will exploit that to the bitter end.

Wow alarmism. Seriously, that sentence in bold irks me to no end. It's basically fearmongering and saying Town is dumb at the same time. Not to mention: I don't recall ever being in a game with a scum Copclaim. Hell, last game I was in had a real claim at the end that I didn't believe. Whatever, not the point, the point is that you're resorting to straw men and what amount to ad hominems and nothing annoys me more in Mafia than that combination.

Argh. Basically you're just being combative and rude. It feels like flailing around and trying to shake us from our convictions by making us feel dumb instead of providing any actual insight that could be used if you're Town and you flip as such. I'm not done yet, I'm gonna look through this last page again, but... it's hard to take any of it seriously.

[EvilTom]

Sorry, just stressed out by it all

[Strago]

Does it look like I'm giving up or going?

Well, yes.

I'm not doing all this to survive

Dude. I'm trying to help as much as I can. I'm at L-1 with a scumclaim over my head, don't make this more painful for me than it already is >_> at least don't harass me when I try and provide some thoughts

Gyar, irony. Harassing you?

I think Bard is pretty towny.
I thought El Cid was super-town, but I've had to demote him a bit.
Xanth and Strago are all over the place. You know my thoughts on Alex. He could be legit, but he's definately not sane, and he's been acting scummy so I pegged him as fakeclaiming.
Corwin.. I don't know if he's being good and logical, or if he's scum siding with me to reap the benefits when I flip town. Perplexing.
Andrew seems ok. Moderately town.
Kiro is confusing, neutral.
Excal neutral.
Xanth himself.. I can't tell anymore, see what he does after my flip I guess.
Hmm.

Townies are no infallible, even ones confirmed by a flip. So how is... any of this helpful, aside from providing a set of extremely broad opinions that are only necessarily valid in that your heart would be in the right place?

[Ranmilia]

I am about, but I haven't much to say.  

It is in no way shape or form "safer" to lynch a cop claim rather than the guy he's claiming a scum result on, this is really basic stuff and I'm amazed people that aren't Tom are buying it, but I'm amazed people weren't on Tom in the first place, and those folks will disregard this as well as it comes from me etc etc you can make all the obvious arguments on your own.

[Sierra]

Grow a brain.

Yeesh. Tom, back away from the computer for a few minutes, take a deep breath, and chill out. Comments like this help no one, least of all yourself.

El Cid, Alex, Strago and Xanth are all 'completely convinced I'm scum', which is disheartening.

I'd really like you to point out where I said this, because I am quite sure that I never did. You're boiling everything down to absolutes here and it makes you sound like a maniac. A couple clarifications I feel it necessary to point out:

-Xanth's not off the hook, nor have I ever said that he is. He's just not currently top priority. I've explained, at length, why I believe it's in town's best interest to test the cop claim today. There is such a thing as a calculated risk, you know? I do realize that's little comfort when you're the test subject, but seriously, did you skip all the posts where I talked about this?

-I am not blindly believing Alex's claim. I've even stated that I believe I can expose him tomorrow if he lies about his results (and for the love of god, don't ask me to go into detail about that because you should realize why doing so is a bad idea) assuming he understood the plan and goes along with it (I will, now formally ask him to do so if you flip Town). 

[Ranmilia]

If Tom flips town I'll know I'm an insane cop.  Which, once known, is the same as a sane cop.  So I will proceed to investigate the people I find most likely to be scum, such that I can provide town with a useful result after my death.  This may or may not be Cid's target. 

Cid, I'm not sure you've thought this plan all the way through (and I'll admit my kneejerk reaction to any sort of investigation direction is "Wow, is he claiming scum framer?")  If I am insane and Tom is town, that leaves two scum left alive, which if you are telling the truth means we have so many town roles there almost certainly will be a scum roleblocker, which means one or the other of us is obviously getting blocked, which means the plan won't work?

[Carthrat]

Day 2 votecount!

Affinity (0): Kiro
Kiro (0): AndrewRogue
Xanth (0): El Cideon, DreadThomas
DreadThomas (6): Sir Alex, Xanth, Strago, El Cideon, Kilgamayan, Excal
SirAlex (1): AndrewRogue, Dread Thomas, Corwin
Corwin (0): Dread Thomas
Excal (0): Bardiche

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. About 20 hours remaining.

[Sierra]

Cid, I'm not sure you've thought this plan all the way through

I can only assure you that I have. And I think you may be overestimating the number of power roles in the game. The only one the group as a whole knows for sure is here is Godfather--because that's the only one we've seen a flip for. I don't think there's enough evidence to be convinced of any other claims just yet, or draw any conclusions about the number of power roles present in the setup.

[Strago]

why would anybody be discussing a "secret plan" like this

stop it?

[Affinity]

If you see something suspicious, you shouldn't ignore it in favour of railroading one person!

This is true.  However, the thing you count as suspicious, lurking, cannot compare to the (apparently) substantial cases you have on Alex and Xanth.  When I saw you vote Corwin just because of that, it felt as if you were scum shuffling around trying to pin suspicion onto someone else.  Case in point:

continuing to go after Alex was useless.

Sounds as if it was from a scum's perspective, rather than townie's.  

It's pretty obvious what ScumAlex gains, he's no longer taking heat (he was coming under heavy fire), and he never has to commit to anything (claim roleblock/the NK target).

This is true, but they are all short-term when compared to tomorrow, where he would be placed under heavy scrutiny.  But I guess I do see your point with the 'insanity' out he could use tomorrow if he were scum.

So you're saying if I flip scum, you'd consider that Alex was scumbussing me? That's very unlikely.

It's still a possibility that I won't leave out; two of the games I have played involved this one way or the other, and you indirectly supporting Alex on this one point is really... weird.

[AndrewRogue]

I really doubt we are going to get anywhere else here without a flip. So. Are we ready for a hammer?

[AndrewRogue]

Rather, are we ready to put out our super sekret tech plans and put down a hammer?

[Sierra]

Quite so, Andy. We are indeed waiting for the hammer to fall, as the man in the song says.

[AndrewRogue]

I'm going to run over to Walgreens and then I will come back and hammer. So. Ya'll have about 10-15 more minutes for any last minute thoughts from other folks or to tell me not to.

Be back.

[Affinity]

I really doubt we are going to get anywhere else here without a flip. So. Are we ready for a hammer?

I guess Tom and town are on different frequencies now.  In the end, it's really not very easy to differentiate between town-Tom and scum-Tom, and since I remain unconvinced by his responses, I guess this is the only choice for today.  Apparently, this is the first time I ever hammered anyone.

##Unvote
##Vote: Dread Thomas

[Halbarad]

HAMMER STOP TALKING (and yes, Rat asked me to step in)
Flip in a moment.

[Halbarad]

Day 2 votecount!

Affinity (0): Kiro
Kiro (0): AndrewRogue
Xanth (0): El Cideon, DreadThomas
DreadThomas (7): Sir Alex, Xanth, Strago, El Cideon, Kilgamayan, Excal, Affinity
SirAlex (1): AndrewRogue, Dread Thomas, Corwin
Corwin (0): Dread Thomas
Excal (0): Bardiche


Dread Thomas, aka Kuga Natsuki, Vanilla Town, has been lynched!

It is now Night, send in your actions.

[Carthrat]

The day got into full swing once again, until Sugiura Midori stepped up! "Ey! Natsuki! You've been skipping class!" she called, waving a halberd aroudn as if it was a flag. "There's no reason for anyone to skip class, even now, unless they're scoping for targets! Explain yourself!"

The bluette snorted. "I've been skipping class for months, what else is new? Furthermore, I'm not even in your class! And aren't you still drunk?"

"Oho? And... and what have you been doing all this time?" challenged Aoi, clneching her fists. "K.. Kuga-san often visited Mai! She would easily know when her guard is down!

"Now, now, don't be silly, everyone. There's no way Natsuki could be behind this," stated Shizuru, calmly sipping at some tea.

"Oh? Why's that? Do you know where she's been?" responded Nao, prompting a look of consternation. "I say we drag her in. Let me interrogate her. I know some tricks." She snapped her fingers. "Julia! Catch the mouse~"

Red strings seemed to spring out of the ground, and they pulled something after them- a hideous monster, about as big as a house! Armoured green skin covered it's form, and eight spindly legs caused it to resemble a spider. Rising out of the main body was something akin to a female human's torso, with a leering, metallic face.

"You can't do this! Kiyo-" began Shizuru, before Miyu grabbed the back of her shoulder. "Don't interfere," the woman said, coldly.

Natsuki barely got a chance to blink before the monster spurted thick webbing towards her, pulling her off her feet and dragging her in close. In no time, Natsuki was within the creature's grip...



For all her talk, Nao's interrogation efforts proved fruitless, as Natsuki simply refused to speak. "Well, you can eat her," the girl muttered. Shizuru screamed bloody murder, but nobody else stepped forward to help. When the grisly business was done, however, she seemed to lapse into catatonia, muttering Natsuki's name over and over again.

Even when they searched Natsuki's apartment later, though, no evidence of wrongdoing was found.

<->

The next day, the group was one person short. A quick inspection, however, found Miyu- or at least her head. Instead of blood and organs, however, a metallic spinal cord was located, along with numerous wires, still sparking. "Protect... Hime... Protect..." her voice sputtered, before, apparently, the batteries ran out for good.

El Cideon, aka Miyu, Bulletproof Miller, was deconstructed overnight!

1. Fujino Shizuru (Corwin)
2. Sugiura Midori (SirAlexTheFirst)
3. Yuuichi Tate (Excal)
4. Minagi Mikoto (AndrewRogue)
7. Ishigami Wataru (Strago)
9. Kazuya Kurauchi (Bardiche)
10. Senou Aoi (Kilgamayan)
11. Suzushiro Haruka (Xanth)
12. Yuuki Nao (Affinity)
13. Higurashi Akane (Kiro)

It is now Day 3. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. There are 48 hours remaining.

[Corwin]

And a brand new day begins, Miss Sugiura.

So I wasn't Natsuki's most important person after all....

[Xanth]

If no one can call Alex out now, he's basically confirmed cop in my book. It's ironic, because through killing a bulletproof player I'm even more sure.

This assumes no more than two scum left. (One left trivially resolves to it being a hitman*. Three left starts us with 13/4, which seems rather unbalanced without role power to make up for it)

For a theoretical scumAlex to even consider being able to fake claim into today, he needs to have stopped an actual cop from scanning him last night following his claim. This requires either killing the cop and bluff like crazy, which hasn't happened, or to roleblock the cop. But if the cop was roleblocked then El Cid can't have been, so we're looking at a hitman/roleblocker duo for this to make any sense. But if that's the case, how did they find the cop in the first place? There's no room for shoving an additional rolecop clause on top of one of the two given the semi-open nature of the set up. The only possibility would be if they somehow guessed who the cop was on day one, which seems like a ridiculous gambit when the cop could still come into the open to challenge Alex anyway.

So no, I don't think scumAlex could reasonably have stopped an actual cop from scanning him, thus if no one confronts him immediately today I'm counting him as 99% cleared town insane cop.


I'm frustrated that Tom was town despite his actions (which contradicted to the end), but I stand by my position there.


*Actually, it could theoretically be any other scum role, essentially equivalent to vanilla at that point, combined with an unfortunate use of town roleblocking. This option seems hilariously unlikely, though, especially given their failure to kill El Cid in night one, and doesn't break the logic here anyway.

[Strago]

For a theoretical scumAlex to even consider being able to fake claim into today, he needs to have stopped an actual cop from scanning him last night following his claim. This requires either killing the cop and bluff like crazy, which hasn't happened, or to roleblock the cop. But if the cop was roleblocked then El Cid can't have been, so we're looking at a hitman/roleblocker duo for this to make any sense. But if that's the case, how did they find the cop in the first place? There's no room for shoving an additional rolecop clause on top of one of the two given the semi-open nature of the set up. The only possibility would be if they somehow guessed who the cop was on day one, which seems like a ridiculous gambit when the cop could still come into the open to challenge Alex anyway.

So no, I don't think scumAlex could reasonably have stopped an actual cop from scanning him, thus if no one confronts him immediately today I'm counting him as 99% cleared town insane cop.

I... hrmm. My initial reaction to this was that it seemed very hasty, but... it actually scans very logically to me. So that's interesting. Huh.

Time to look back over Day 2, I guess. Grah, Tom.

[Xanth]

I've been thinking about it long before the flip. Way before the end of the day, even. The bulletproof flip just simplifies it considerably.

I'm still not really here yet: I'm busy blu-tacking Twix bars to my ceiling. More rounded stuff in a few hours or so, as I did mostly miss out people who weren't Tom or myself yesterday.

[Corwin]

I find this unlikely, Miss Suzushiro. Your suggestion ignores that the cowardly scum have tried to kill Miyu the first night, and failed to do so.

You suggest the existence of a Hitman, yet for this coincidence to occur and for Miyu to die the second night, it would need to be a Hitman with several uses, or scum had inexplicably used someone else during the first night to kill. While not impossible, I have to wonder why you would ignore such and decide that Miss Sugiura is quite innocent of any wrong-doings.

I also have to wonder why, even when you allude to the possibility of a Roleblocker, you call it a town Roleblocker. Would it not be more likely that in the absence of a Hitman, scum might have a Roleblocker, who would cooperate with another scum to kill Miyu? And yet, I find no mention of this in your theories.

There is more in your words that I disagree with, but I would like to receive an answer on this, first.

[Strago]

Whether or not Scum have a Roleblocker should be easy enough to discern once Alex tells us what his results from last night were, and if he was able to investigate.

Unless, of course, he's lying scum. But I find it really hard to believe that we don't have a cop, now that we've had flips from both a Godfather and a Miller.

You suggest the existence of a Hitman, yet for this coincidence to occur and for Miyu to die the second night, it would need to be a Hitman with several uses, or scum had inexplicably used someone else during the first night to kill. While not impossible, I have to wonder why you would ignore such and decide that Miss Sugiura is quite innocent of any wrong-doings.

Maybe a single-use Hitman that has to declare beforehand whether or not he's using his protection-busting kill? So it could potentially be wasted? Seems possible.