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Author Topic: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4  (Read 3380 times)

Cmdr_King

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Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« on: December 06, 2008, 04:37:12 AM »
Results live from the Geysers of Gygax.

lesca- vii v Kusuha- iii
Epsilon- v v Malik
Cain- i v Royce- vi
Arceus v Psaro- ii

Vayne v Hugo- v
Legretta- i v Balthier- vi
Jenova- i v Roddick- i (Hatbot)
Levail- iii v Garan- ii

Weigraf- xiii v Kim
Anna- iii v Chloe- ii
Senel- iii v Sceptile- ii
Shine- viiii v Umaro- i

Sanaki- iii v Erk- v
Augst- iiii v Lulu- viii
Millie- iiii v Allen
BM- viiii v Maria

Godlike

Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) vs Epsilon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Royce (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete) v Psaro (Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen)*

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Balthier (Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions)
Jenova (Final Fantasy VII) vs Levail (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)

Middle

Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)
Senel Coolidge (Tales of Legendia) vs Shine Hausen (Super Robot Taisen Series)

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III)
Millie Chliette (Star Ocean: First Departure)** vs Black Mage (Final Fantasy X-2)

Sorry about the delay, but still closes next Thursday!  Enjoy.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2008, 04:45:31 AM »
Godlike

Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) vs Epsilon (Mega Man X: Command Mission): Uh... hmm. Epsilon doesn't really like Yunalesca's Regen game because his offence isn't that great... but then again it is ITD so he's not -that- badly off. Aside from that, uh this fight takes forever. I'll think about it.

Heavy

Jenova (Final Fantasy VII) vs Levail (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn): Oh look a Heavy mage who doesn't suck.

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III): Counters, isn't doubled, and I really doubt Lulu can 2HKO him (or avoid a 4HKO).

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Pyro

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2008, 03:22:05 PM »
Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Balthier (Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions): ITE damage. Can block sleep/Aegis Shield the ID? ITE damage is the big thing I think.
Jenova (Final Fantasy VII) vs Levail (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn): If NEB thinks she OHKOs him how do you think I feel?

Middle

Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis): Doesn't counter techs and she has a speed advantage. Throw Quick in and I think she wins. I guess his shield could throw a loop into things. I'll reconsider later.
Senel Coolidge (Tales of Legendia) vs Shine Hausen (Super Robot Taisen Series): I guess he can't hit her. Though she takes a while to kill him.

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III): No.

Taishyr

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2008, 05:58:36 PM »
Godlike

Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) vs Epsilon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) - Likely to vote however NEB ends up voting on this one.

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III) - ahahahahahahahahahahahaha


superaielman

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2008, 08:39:38 PM »

Godlike

Royce (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete) v Psaro (Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen)- The funny thing is that he beats Ghaleon!

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Balthier (Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions)- Barrage should OHKO. Sleep's out and Balthier's got good HP.


Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2008, 10:58:12 PM »
Godlike
Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) vs Epsilon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- Since his form chain is legal and really solid. 3HKO is enough for Lesca's Regen.

Middle
Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)- Wiegraf 2HKOs, Anna doesn't. She's not getting that 3rd turn before he gets his 2nd.

Light
Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III)- Counters since Lulu is pure SR.
Millie Chliette (Star Ocean: First Departure)** vs Black Mage (Final Fantasy X-2)- Black Mage's best bet is try to Absorb Millie's MP away! Of course, that probably takes 4 turns to fully work, more than enough for Millie to buff her physical, halve all magic damage and get a few smacks in. Of course, +30% MP accessory means MP killing might take 5 turns instead!
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2008, 11:03:57 PM »
Godlike

Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) vs Epsilon (Mega Man X: Command Mission) - Kneejerk? Eh.

Middle

Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - 2HKOs first.

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III) - Sure, doubles.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

VySaika

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2008, 11:25:26 PM »
Godlike

Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) vs Epsilon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)
Royce (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete) v Psaro (Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen)*

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Balthier (Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions)
Jenova (Final Fantasy VII) vs Levail (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)

Middle

Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)
Senel Coolidge (Tales of Legendia) vs Shine Hausen (Super Robot Taisen Series)


Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III)
Millie Chliette (Star Ocean: First Departure)** vs Black Mage (Final Fantasy X-2)
<%Laggy> we're open minded individuals here
<+RandomKesaranPasaran> are we
<%Laggy> no not really.

<Tide|NukicommentatoroptionforF> Hatbot is a pacifist

Mad Fnorder

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 12:25:23 AM »

Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)- Lack of respect for Weigraf, really.
Senel Coolidge (Tales of Legendia) vs Shine Hausen (Super Robot Taisen Series)- 1HKO with Compound vs. Automaton Throw. Alternatively, if Shine goes for Focus Spam, Defends until Climax is full. Yes, that takes FOREVER, but Shine's damage is that bad, and he does have a weapon he can equip for HP regen, with a massive offensive hit. I'd see Climax's Time Stop as overriding evasion, which it does in game. The Climax Combo, at the least, is ITE.  EDIT: E IS CLOSE TO D, I AM DUMB.

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
vs Lulu (Suikoden III)- Probably.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 06:01:55 PM by Mad Fnorder »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2008, 12:34:11 AM »
ITD is supposed to -help- against Shine of the "only better than Latooni" defense? >_> That said, it sounds like Shine's screwed there due to multi-hitting shenanigans, which make OG2 Alert not useful at all. OGs Alert would be a nightmare, though.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Talaysen

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2008, 12:53:45 AM »
Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Balthier (Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions) - ITE?
Jenova (Final Fantasy VII) vs Levail (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) - I think.

Middle

Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - LOL to Anna not 2HKOing.  She does like 1.2 PCHP damage in two turns.
Senel Coolidge (Tales of Legendia) vs Shine Hausen (Super Robot Taisen Series) - I think.

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III) - Sanaki burns the--wait what?  Oh, well Erk wins in some boring fashion.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2008, 01:07:58 AM »
Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - LOL to Anna not 2HKOing.  She does like 1.2 PCHP damage in two turns.

She's actually a lot closer to 0.8 over 2 turns, thanks to 3 turn averages and timed cards. Taking only "3 uses" only really underrates some damage.
...into the nightfall.

Talaysen

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2008, 01:10:00 AM »
She's actually a lot closer to 0.8 over 2 turns, thanks to 3 turn averages and timed cards. Taking only "3 uses" only really underrates some damage.

Still sounds like a 2HKO at worst to me.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2008, 01:17:38 AM »
She's actually a lot closer to 0.8 over 2 turns, thanks to 3 turn averages and timed cards. Taking only "3 uses" only really underrates some damage.

Still sounds like a 2HKO at worst to me.

Even using the lowest average, Anna only does 54% to start with. Just switching to a 3 turn without taking any other considerations (Aka Timed Cards), bumps the average up 285 points, putting Anna at 44%. Of course, there are some things that bring the average down a little to me, but they aren't outweighing the effect of Timed Cards.
...into the nightfall.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2008, 01:27:41 AM »
I think what he's arguing is that you're overrating Wiegraf's HP, which isn't wholly unreasonable. >_>
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2008, 01:32:16 AM »
That's possible, although considering Wiegraf faces only 1 PC, if I see him as notably bad, then most of the other FFT bosses might as well pack up and go home.
...into the nightfall.

Pyro

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2008, 06:26:32 PM »
Dhyer, you're pretty much the only one who uses Timed Cards (which delay the damage significantly and hence slow them down) in the averages. And the straight 3 turn leaves like half the cast with NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER, so yeah. And why consider timed cards and not FFX Recharge times, Haste spells, and so forth for every other PC cast ever?

As far as Wiegraf's durability goes? Depends entirely on what you hold against him. 334 HP is probably anywhere between 1-4HKO'd depending on your setup. Regardless, solo bosses should get *some* scaling since a part of the reason we do it is for them not facing the same level of hax in the DL as they do in-game. And Anna still has Quick to leverage.

Oh, as for Senel vs. Shine.

Shine has about half average damage. Senel can just defend until she runs out of Focus and finish her off? And I don't think Climax Mode was ITD. I'm fairly sure it was ITE though.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 09:27:12 PM by Cryo »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2008, 10:00:23 PM »
I do consider recharge times for FFX, SH 2, WA 4, etc...In the topic, Flay loses 10% of his turn 1 damage to throw out a time card. And by the time his second turn comes around, he's now pumped out 2700 damage instead of 1000! He's barely losing any immediate damage over the topic's choice of tech to included in the averages to use it too!

It sucks for the MK cast that the 3 turn average leaves them deprived of damage, but I don't think only one qualification is enough for not counting something in a damage. For example, the best case I've heard for not counting something fully is MMXCM HATs. They first need you to be in Hyper mode, which is limited, they delay your next turn, and they are based on a limit buildup that can't be used immediately. So basically, MMXCM HATs have three qualifiers on them (Non-spammable, slows you down, not immediately usuable). The only other thing I can really think of having that many qualifications is L2 Mystic Arts, needing 100 MP left, and then being a limit based on both AP build up and HP levels.

A group of attacks where the only qualification is just if they can use it twice it eats up a lot of their MP doesn't really have enough limits on it for it to be taken out (Especially if it can indeed be used twice!) Note that if you take even 4 turn averages, it's still a notable damage upgrade.

Also, Anna is running out of MP anyways. Why consider her to use 279 MP to do like 3200 damage when she can use 285 MP and do about 4150?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 10:05:51 PM by Dhyerwolf »
...into the nightfall.

Pyro

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2008, 10:06:35 PM »
Timed Cards are more like summons regardless, which haven't been used in averages. And FFX/WA4 recharge rates and whatnot aren't used by anybody but you in averages, I don't think.

hinode

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2008, 10:17:45 PM »
As far as Wiegraf's durability goes? Depends entirely on what you hold against him. 334 HP is probably anywhere between 1-4HKO'd depending on your setup. Regardless, solo bosses should get *some* scaling since a part of the reason we do it is for them not facing the same level of hax in the DL as they do in-game. And Anna still has Quick to leverage.

Err, isn't it convention to scale bosses based on in-game damage, not DL legal?  Taking bosses against in-game damage instead of (DL, special PC) average - which is absolutely necessary to even approach 2HKO on Weigraf3's raw HP - and *then* arguing he needs to have his HP scaled back further because of "not facing the same level of hax in the DL as they do in-game" sounds like double-penalizing him for in-game twinking for... no particular reason that I can see.  Also bear in mind that the best damage setups in-game (Wizards, Ninjas) tend to yield very low HP which makes boss damage jump up a lot, to where the likes of Weigraf2 and Lede easily OHKO if they aren't keeling over first due to crap HP.

That said, one factor he does have working against his HP is that Weigraf3 is one of those bosses who run at 80% HP in-game.  Some people don't hold that against bosses for reasons I'm not entirely sure, but it makes his HP kinda suck to me, and I'm relatively lenient on FFT boss HP otherwise.

EDIT: Also, if you're not using 3 turn averages because it means half the cast does "NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER", you better as hell not be one of those people who factors FF8 limits into the average, meaning an entire cast does NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER against almost anyone with better damage than Evil Gaia.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 10:26:55 PM by hinode »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2008, 10:22:52 PM »
Timed cards aren't like any DL relevant summons. Well, actually, they aren't horribly different than say Garnet's. Sure, enemies can get rid of them in game, but can any in the DL? If not, they are untargettable damage, and more akin to SH 2 recharge times since they slow damage down (And do people not consider SH 2 recharge times?). Either way, the three turn alone massively props it up. Jessica's damage alone nearly doubles even factoring in recharge time.
...into the nightfall.

Pyro

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2008, 06:30:00 AM »
Quote
EDIT: Also, if you're not using 3 turn averages because it means half the cast does "NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER", you better as hell not be one of those people who factors FF8 limits into the average, meaning an entire cast does NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER against almost anyone with better damage than Evil Gaia.

I don't consider limits at all for them. They still kinda blow as a cast, but believe me when I say I hate the interp that makes them all punies.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2008, 04:20:28 PM »
Godlike

Yunalesca (Final Fantasy X) vs Epsilon (Mega Man X: Command Mission)- Kneejerk.
Royce (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete) v Psaro (Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen)*- Hurray, unambiguity.

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Balthier (Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions)- More kneejerk.
Jenova (Final Fantasy VII) vs Levail (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn)

Middle

Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis)
Senel Coolidge (Tales of Legendia) vs Shine Hausen (Super Robot Taisen Series)- Hmm.  Seems like he could max out on accuracy and, at the least, hit her with the tail end of his combo, leading to knockdown (in turn leading to a throw that makes her cry).

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III)
Millie Chliette (Star Ocean: First Departure)** vs Black Mage (Final Fantasy X-2)
CK: She is the female you
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2008, 11:23:30 PM »
Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Balthier (Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions) - Weapon-stealing hype is go?
Jenova (Final Fantasy VII) vs Levail (Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn) - Low Jenova respect, but still enough.

Middle

Weigraf Folles (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Anna Lemouri (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al Revis) - His pesky formchange that I allow really screws Anna over.
Senel Coolidge (Tales of Legendia) vs Shine Hausen (Super Robot Taisen Series) - Can't vote, but if I could, I'd wager Senel, since he's out to break Middle.

Light

Erk (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Lulu (Suikoden III) - Counters and not OHKOed?
Millie Chliette (Star Ocean: First Departure)** vs Black Mage (Final Fantasy X-2) - I think she blocks enough status for this? Could be swayed.

-Djinn

Cmdr_King

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Re: Tourney of Interest Season 6!! Week 4
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2008, 07:24:54 AM »
Hm.  I'll update this tomorrow afternoon I think.  Although I dunno that anyone hasn't already voted.  Just feeling lazy.
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