Discworld Mafia is go!

[Carthrat]

Lesse. Firstly, I am totally supportive of hitting lurkers. There's nothing else to say about it. I think we should ditch this speculation over Otter having, say, some weird post restriction or whatever until day 2 at the least; anything could've come up. I agree it's odd, let's see if he has something to say today first.

Dread Thomas! You pressured me and tried to evoke conversation? Good job! It worked, congrats.

Right, well my suspicions go to those who have sat back and watched the towny in-fighting.

Was this talking about us? I hope so. In general, can you try and be a bit less fatalistic with your posts? Saying stuff like 'may as well help town before hammer' etc. is kinda morale-killing.

I'll endeavour to use actual quotes from now on. Agree with you on people hanging back and not really saying much being somewhat queer. My current candidate for that is... VSM! Early on, he says things like...

I don't see a need to pad my post-totals if I don't have much to say, Commander.

Neither do I, but I usually do have something to say, and so should you. Especially now, there's been lots of voting and posting. Also, people seem to be basically saying "I don't really find anyone terribly suspicious, let's go for the lurkers." People like Smodge and Corwin. Pointed questioning seems to be what I'm good at, so...

Corwin: Why do you think Dread Thomas seems more like a bad townie than a bad scum? And why is bad townie play excusable, anyway? I feel this is treading extremely dangerous ground as far as future arguments go.

Smodge: Asterixing your Is was not necessary. Since nobody looks *really* scummy to you, who, lurkers excluded, seems the *most* scummy? This is a question people should really think about if things look pretty opaque.

<->

I can't seem to escape the curse of having been scum so many times in the past. Maybe I should /nick Andrew and be done with it.

[EvilTom]

VSM... why does he say commander? Is this a usual thing, or something from Discworld? I don't recognise it from my knowledge of the theme (which is little.. I really must see if the library has Discworld books).
Is he breadcrumbing a role?

[Carthrat]

Nah, he was talking to CMDR_king.

[Corwin]

Tom, for all his faults, is talking. Lurkers aren't. To rectify that, I think we should put pressure on them and get them to respond. You think Tom is scum, Rat? That happened entirely because he opened his mouth, so seeing why I want to hear from everyone should be obvious to you.

Why do I think it's bad town play? Because I've seen him play that way as town a couple times before, and because I certainly hope fellow scum would help him avoid at least some of the things he's doing, which leads me to suspect he's going about it all solo.

Should that be excused? Well, no, that's not what I'm saying. Read my previous post, where I'm allowing for the possibility that's why you're going after Tom, and that I consider it a fairly valid call. However, by this reasoning, we'll lynch someone we think is town but playing badly instead of searching for scum. Scum comes out ahead when lurking is excused, and when town lynches town, so lurkers appear the better target for me. Finally, if you believe Tom is irredeemable this game and this feeling is shared by the others, he can be ignored with relative safety. His single vote won't matter for a while.

[EvilTom]

Well I'm going to bed, the day will probably be over before the next time I get back online, which means I won't be able to answer interrogations. I implore some of you to reconsider, and.. vote for Otter perhaps. At least I've made an effort to help the town? Anyway I guess I won't blame people for voting for me again, I don't seem to have much luck with the whole day 1 thing.

Oh and C-Rat, the fatalism comes from the fact that I'm way out in front in terms of votes.. though I guess there's still time left?

If Otter returns with some really good excuse, I'd be shifting my vote to VSM.

[Bobbin Cranbud]

While I understand reasons the Tom train, and the 'principled decision' of targeting total-lurking Otter, the ones who really leap out to me are CPU and Uno.

Otter: Otter just flat-out ISN'T HERE.  Whatever the reason, he is completely uncommunicative.  Could be a wild Scum gambit - trading, perhaps, on metagame respect for him as a frequent Town leader?  It could also be RL issues, since he's not been on at all.  Or, it could be a role.  Whatever the reason, I still believe Otter should get at least one more day to post SOMETHING.

Taishyr: Hasn't posted much at all, but has put quite a bit of content out so far.  At the moment I'm inclined to say he's just busy, but someone to watch if he continues to post little.

EvilTom: Aside from the obvious misplays and/or Scumtells, there's this:

If Otter returns with some really good excuse, I'd be shifting my vote to VSM.

I guess I don't "get" what Tom has against VSM here.  He's given very little read, yes, but he's at least reasonably involved, and is it really time to hunt neutral reads?
I'm prepared enough to call this "It's Tom" that I don't want to push him into possible hammer range, though - especially with essentially uninvestigated lurkers still on the loose.

##FOS: EvilTom

Unoriginal: Weird gambit to start the game and not much since.  A LAL candidate; what else is there to say about him when he doesn't have more content.  In other words - POST MORE!

##FOS: Unoriginal

CPU: Posts very little and hasn't had a lot of content.  Also posts from a public library, which makes this understandable.  Could easily slip under the radar as Scum, though, BECAUSE it's understandable.  That's actually quite dangerous to us, IMO - moreso than lurkers who have less excuse.  If it comes down to a Lynch All Lurkers situation, CPU has admitted he probably won't be useful to town, yet his 'power' of having a great excuse is useful to Scum.  That makes him the most threatening/expendable lurker to me.

##VOTE: IHateThisCPU

[Cmdr_King]

... wait.  A role claim without a name claim?  In Discworld?  That just don't even make sense!  Are you... trying to get yourself killed her, Dread Thomas?  I'm seriously beginning to wonder.

Okay.  Now, at this point... Otter's actually in plausible danger of modkill if he's just opting not to talk.  As such, it's reasonable to think that he's got some reason, be it real-life (seems unlikely, he does bounce around in chat a bit) or role-related (perhaps he has a zombie-like restriction on posting and wants to save it?  Too early to form a solid speculation).  Thusly, even if we opt to ignore Tom's death which, I don't think he's the best choice of LAL target.

Now, CPU has a perfectly legit excuse... but as seen in FFT Mafia, legit excuses are excellent for scum, so should he be scum he's very dangerous in the long term.  Meanwhilst, unoriginal is, not unlike Nitori, just lurky by nature, so if we decide to go easy on CPU for now he seems the logical target.

That said, I don't really feel the need to lead a charge on either at this moment and it seems a good time to await further arguments.

[Sierra]

Update!

(Mid-day update on account of me being home sick. Yay? Only sort of).

Carthrat (0): Cmdr_King, EvilTom, Corwin, EvilTom
Cmdr_King (2): Yakumo, IhatethisCPU
Corwin (1): Excal
EvilTom (6): Shale, Strago, Taishyr, QuietRain, Carthrat, Hunter Sopko
Hunter Sopko (1): Nitori, Kilgamayan, Excal
IhatethisCPU (1): Cmdr_King, Bobbin Cranbud
Kilgamayan (0): Hunter Sopko
Nitori (0): Excal, Smodge13
Otter (3): Strago, Nitori, EvilTom, Corwin
QuietRain (0): Taishyr, Hunter Sopko
Shale (0): Carthrat
Taishyr (0): Quietrain, Bobbin Cranbud
Unoriginal (0): Unoriginal, Carthrat, EvilTom
VSM (1): Cmdr_King
Yakumo (0): Smodge13

With nineteen alive, it takes ten to lynch.

There are 7.5 hours until the deadline.

[QuietRain]

Ok can you please stop blatantly lieing. It was not 4 posts later. It was over two and a half pages later. I understand there's a few of you who want to see me lynched ASAP, but please don't lie to achieve that.

Let me introduce you to a wonderful feature this new forum has.  I found it invaluable for my previous post and I encourage everyone who hasn't used it to do so.  I really helps get a feel for a person's comments.  If you go to the page that lists all of the members, clicking on a person's name (and in this case I clicked on yours), you can find a link that shows all posts a person has made.  Now, perhaps my wording was off.  And I apologize if I confused you.  My post should have read 'And YOUR fourth post later'.  It wasn't a lie, you misunderstood.  I hope that is cleared up now.

8-

There's a difference between being defensive, and getting annoyed at someone. I got annoyed at him for making up quotes, embellishing them and taking them out of context. How am I supposed to respond to that?

Geez... I should take a leaf out of Otter's book and /not post anything/, I'd be doing a lot better.

1-I'm not saying you don't have a right to be annoyed.  I just think you should admit when you're being defensive because you feel annoyed instead of trying to pretend that your not and obfuscating a point that, really, has no reason to be. 

2-I'm going to pretend you didn't say the last line.  If you're town, talking can only help.  You should take a larger view of this, though.  You win if town wins, regardless of whether you're alive or not.  It's not about 'not getting lynched or NKed', it's about making sure that a townie is the last man standing.  Talking a lot can get you lynched because the more you say, the more people can pull apart, yes.  And scum is looking for talkative townies to do just that to them.  But if talking a lot does get you killed, the rest of the surviving town looking back on the things you said after the fact when it's then KNOWN you were town gives everything you say that much more credence.

[QuietRain]

*sigh*  And apologies for the wacky quoting in the last post folks. 

[IhatethisCPU]

...Ye gods, this moves quickly.

If we don't have any leads on Sunday, feel free to prune me, since I probably won't be contributing anything that'll be useful.

Leaning towards Tom and Corwin at the moment, they're being a wee bit too confrontational for the first day. This seems to be normal for Tom, though.

Side-note:
I will laugh and laugh if Cmdr_king drew Samuel Vimes.

[Cmdr_King]

Oh?  What makes you say that?

[Strago]

I think because he's the Commander of the City Watch, Cmdr. But there may be a deeper joke I'm not getting.

Mrfff. I see... no reason to take my vote away from Tom, right now. All he's done is defend himself in a very flailing way against what seem to be a bunch of very reasonable concerns. He really does seem to be playing more for his own personal survival than anything else right now, which is obviously a scummy sort of a thing. The grasping at VSM's using the word "Commander" as some sort of a breadcrumb... yeah, it looks like someone on the block frantically trying us to look elsewhere. And to suggest a No Lynch only to do a one-eighty right after and try to pass it off as an attempt to bait the scum? That's... just NO. That's just poor strategy and doesn't make ANY sense. Tom's just dug too deep a hole for himself for me not to suspect him, at this point. It's certainly the best we have on a day that's only got... what, five hours left? Bah.

[IhatethisCPU]

What're Vimes' current titles? Commander of the Watch, and I think Duke of Ankh-Morpork, right? It'd just be a bit of a laugh. Then again, I'm easily amused. >_>'

...I've been thinking, though. Would role-claiming be any help at all in this Mafia? Judging from the intro, Dungeon Dimension creatures have possessed random townspeople, in which case it really doesn't matter if a chara was good in the novels or not. Hell, Cap. Carrot could end up being scum, if I'm right.

...We've only got five hours?

Hate doing to Tom what was done to me, but...

##Unvote: cmdr_king.
##Vote: EvilTom.

[Cmdr_King]

Yeah, I'll be at work when deadline hits, and while going after lurkers does have merit, Tom's still giving the closest thing to a vibe right now.

##Unvote: Veryslightlymad
##Vote: EvilTom

[Excal]

Tom, remember how I said it wouldn't be hard to convince me to vote your way when time started getting low?  Well, time's ticking down, and no one else seems to be coming to mind.  Not to mention, Corwin's come out swinging, making my vote for him vastly inappropriate.

##Unvote: Corwin,  ##Vote: Evil Tom

That said, some food for thought for Day 2.  CPU, if you can't post often, can you at least try and be informative when you do post?  Take a look at the way Taishyr's been doing things.  Not around much, but tends to show up in a megapost.  Also, there are four people without votes.  You know who you are, and you need to fix that.  Votes are town's best weapon, and if you pass it up, you're giving that edge to the scum.  Even if you guess wrong, you're still deciding where you're looking, and what information you chose to get.

[Carthrat]

In the bold tradition of OK...

EVILTOM IS ONE VOTE TO HAMMER!

And now I run out to work, very little else to add here at this time.

[Shale]

##Unvote EvilTom

Because he's going down anyway and I want to buy more time for everyone (Otter) to post before the first night. And also because that train above me is rather disquieting.

[QuietRain]

Rather disquieting how?  I mean, are you thinking there is a better candidate to lynch at this point, Shale?  If so, please lay out your thoughts on it.  I'd love to see them (joyful goodness for conversation and all).  If not, at...hmm...3 & 1/2-ish hours until clockstop anyway, I don't think that we're going to get a post from the water mammal.  If he's cutting this close to the line on purpose, he's pushing that safety zone pretty hard considering town's usual quick close to a Day 1 lynch.  Mostly, I'm curious about how it seems disquieting.

[Excal]

Meh, the way I see it, discussion is flagging.  Aside from people who aren't posting (hi there VSM, Unoriginal, Otter) there doesn't seem to be a lot in the way of discussion.  Ending the day with about 5 hours left doesn't lose us much in the way of discussion, while also acting as a spur so that we can get things done.

Also, and this does factor in to my thought process a bit.  Continually letting the day drag to a close and time out seems to lead to mods deciding to stick in a clause saying that if time runs out, we don't lynch.  I'd very much like to avoid provoking that reaction over day 1 randomness, when we can save our time out lynches for times when it is critical that we hear someone's defense.

Though, El Cid, if you're around and can clarify if it's likely that we'll go to that, and the mechanics of how we'll reach it, it would very much be appreciated.

[Yakumo]

Actually, as close to deadline as we are, I'd prefer to be sitting one vote to hammer so we don't have a mess at the end.  Also, even if Tom is town, if he survives, I fear we may have a FFT Super situation.

That said, I still don't like Corwin's response to my query, which he basically said it was for one of the reasons I didn't like in the first place.  So that doesn't put him in hammer range.  So what?  Is the only suspicious vote the one right before Hammer now?

##Unvote:Corwin, ##Vote:EvilTom

[Yakumo]

Oh, we aren't threatened with No Lynch yet?  I'm getting used to that being the norm.

Eh, I still don't see a point to backing off now.

[Shale]

Three people jumping onto the wagon in three successive posts, and pushing the day within a vote of hammer in the process. Probably just my customary Day 1 paranoia, but still, that's the reaction it gives me.

And no, I don't really have a better candidate right now, the closest I'd get would be Sopko, who stands out for being memorable with his exchange with you but then dropping off the radar except for an "I agree with the above argument" vote. In any case I'm not doing anything that will stop Tom from getting lynched, just buy some more time for talk. Cid's rules say the top vote-getter dies at nightfall, hammer or no, and I can't see anybody else hitting nine votes at this point.

[Yakumo]

What, Shale?  The only person jumping on is me, those two already voted for him.  And I still don't understand why you're so freaked out about him being one from hammer.  What's the matter, afraid someone will somehow vote by mistake?  We really shouldn't be pushing days to deadline just because we can, either.  You said yourself that nobody else is likely to get the noose at this point, so what's the big deal?  We should be decisive, being wishy-washy only makes us vulnerable to being led astray.

[Shale]

That response was to QuietRain, I just got caught up in other stuff while writing it. And by the same token, if nobody else is going to get the noose today, what's the risk in talking more?