Discworld Mafia is go!

[Ranmilia]

Yes, 8 to lynch.  S'what I get for copypasting an old count.  Sorry.

[Shale]

Okay, so. I've gone back and looked at the people I didn't get a read on before. Tai seems to be his usual helpful self. It occurs to me that I've never seen him play scum, though, so I've got no clue how different he'd be as a Dungeon Dimension type. That's just something to keep in mind down the line, though, to remind myself that he's not cleared; right now he's not worrying me.

Otter has been quiet, and the only person he's looked at in any detail is me - mainly by either misrepresenting my defenses or just jumping to a conclusion, I'm not sure which. I'd be more suspicious over what I see as some pretty shifty debating tactics if he hadn't done the same thing in PW, where we both turned out to be town, but it's still annoying, and it's probably coloring my view of him some. Even so, I can't be the only one who finds it weird how little non-metagame content we've seen from him. Talk moar.

VSM: somebody's going to die today, and you're reading the same thread as the rest of us. You're not the only one who doesn't see much concrete evidence, but the only way we're going to get evidence is to pressure people and, eventually, review the day's arguments in light of how the lynched player flips. It behooves the town for everyone to vote and make concrete arguments every day. And meanwhile it behooves scum to leave as little paper trail as possible, so I can't say that argument really endears you to me.

Cranbud: Here, I am ambivalent. I can see his argument against Kilga - trumping up cases is what scum do when there's no obvious target, after all, and I do think Kilga's post was much harsher than "pressure to talk more" level. And in light of what he said in the previous game I played with him - Suiko, I think? - about how he's used to a much slower-paced game, I can at least see how it's in character to defend not voting when you don't have a clear read on anybody, although I really, really don't agree. Still, in-character doesn't mean not scummy, and aside from that one post about Kilga and some VSM defense he hasn't done much of anything today other than bemoan the fact that nobody's done much of anything today. This is not a good time for tunnel vision!

Soppy: Mistakes can definitely be tells. Other than that? I'm still inclined to say the QR thing is neutral for him at worst, but he's fading into the background late in the day, along with a bunch of other people, and most of his posts early on were various hypotheticals about EvilTom, none of which were particularly helpful, or even followed up on.  Not much to go on, here, which is itself something to think about.

Nitori: I agree that his vote for VSM is weird...hell, weird enough for a FoS. Explain yourself, Kappa - and while you're at it, talk some about people who aren't you or VSM.

Meanwhile, CK hasn't done anything to change my opinion of him. Still posting an average amount but saying little, and not even doing much to flesh out a suspicion or line of thinking, much less committing to one.

It's bedtime. I'll be back before deadline, but for now, ##Vote Cmdr_King

[Mad Fnorder]

I was going to vote for VSM, but posts came in while I was typing. I agree losing a lynch is seriously bad news, and that's the overriding priority. I feel worse about CK than I do about VSM, and they're one vote apart. If we miss the lynch by a vote, I'll feel dumb afterwards.


##UNVOTE Nitori
##VOTE Cmdr. King

[Hunter Sopko]

Excal makes some valid points about VSM. VSM's flip would probably net us the most information. Questioning peoples' theories, though, is helpful to make them refine them. I wouldn't say he's been proud of shooting them down, but I'll agree he does seem to be doing this more than anything else.

The Cranbud defense of VSM, however, makes me look at Cranbud more than VSM. Don't see how this particularly damns VSM. If it's a scum defense of scum, it's a rather blatant one.

I'll also take the chance to reply to Corwin VERY EXPLICITLY. I keep stating that my case against you is light, which is why I haven't thrown a vote your way. I did answer on my line of thinking, and if you don't think it was enough, then you're more than welcome to keep your vote on me. If you're referring to something else, then please specifically state what it is rather than throwing a generic "answer up" every post.

[Cmdr_King]

Well then.  I'm nodding off now, and in all likelihood will be asleep when deadline hits.  As such, being one of the current vote leaders, I'm compelled to do this now.

I am Mustrum Ridcully, Archchancellor of Unseen University.  I can use magical means to scry on people at night, seeing where they go and who acts upon them.  In other words, a standard watcher.  Last night, I watched myself, hoping that I'd attracted the attention of other roles so I could form some basis of who WASN'T evil things, and more importantly because I didn't really have a read on anyone.  No such thing happened and no one looked at me whatsoever.

So, yet more unsubstantiatable fluff from CK.  Take it as you will.  That done, the only other prudent thing to do is vote for VSM, since it's seeming obvious that one of us will end up dead and I'd rather it not be the guy I know is town.
##Unvote: Shale
##Vote: Veryslightlymad

[Veryslightlymad]

I wish you hadn't done that role-reveal, Commander. It's a powerful role-claim, and I don't really think you're in that much danger yet. I understand that you're going to bed, but there's still a quarter of a day left. We've seen in previous games that this is an extremely powerful role for town, and I don't like the idea of you putting a target on yourself like that.

[Excal]

I can see your point, though, saying Scum wouldn't do something because it'd be blatant leads into WIFOM territory, again.  But, it is a tie, and knowing what VSM is might lead to some better questions as to why Cranbud felt he had to leap in the way he did.

As for CK's reveal.  Yeah, my sentiments are with VSM there.  For all that I can dig the fact that, sure there is ten hours left.  But those ten hours will also be over night when not many of us are on.  For example, odds are I'll be asleep when day ends, so trying to make the claim when people can both see and react is understandable.

[Carthrat]

I sort of symphasize with cmdr here. I wish he hadn't done it, but it's a tough call to make given the timing issues.

On roleclaims, though, I'm inclined to call for one out of VSM; he *is* only three votes to lynch, and I, too, will be asleep when deadline hits. I'll still be up for a few hours, so if this is going to happen, it's my preference it does before I sleep.

[Sierra]

Update!

Cmdr_King (3): Strago, Shale, Mad Fnorder
Corwin (1): Otter
Hunter Sopko (2): Corwin, Yakumo
Kilgamayan (1): Bobbin Cranbud
Nitori (1): Mad Fnorder, Taishyr
Shale (0): Cmdr_King
VSM (5): Kilgamayan, Nitori, Carthrat, Excal, Cmdr_King

With fifteen alive, it takes eight to lynch.

There are 7 hours until the deadline.

[Excal]

Do not be fooled by the little numbers!  VSM is actually at five votes, and three away from death.  Also, two of us have not voted yet.  Still marginally forgivable for the moment as they may not know of the no vote fate if we don't reach a verdict.

And yes, VSM.  I'm not going to be up when the day ends, as that'll be 8AM my time.  And bed is starting to look pretty dang good.  So, if you want to claim, and hope for it to have any chance to lead to a lynch instead of just stalling us to a no vote.  I'd suggest you do it soon while enough of us to make a difference are still up.

[Veryslightlymad]

I have no idea why Cranbud is defending me. I'm hoping that he's simply trusting me.
Role claim? Fine. I am Havelock Vetinari. I have two votes. Observe.
##VOTE NITORI
You'll note that suddenly Nitori has three votes. I hope this explains me holding back some. It is a tremendous power that I did not want to exercise unless I felt sure of a target.

[Sierra]

Bonus Update!

Cmdr_King (3): Strago, Shale, Mad Fnorder
Corwin (1): Otter
Hunter Sopko (2): Corwin, Yakumo
Kilgamayan (1): Bobbin Cranbud
Nitori (3): Anonymous, Mad Fnorder, Taishyr, VSM
Shale (0): Cmdr_King
VSM (5): Kilgamayan, Nitori, Carthrat, Excal, Cmdr_King

With fifteen alive, it takes eight to lynch.

There are 7 hours until the deadline.

[Corwin]

IE ate my post. 

Try #2 go!

Sopko did the 'stating' of things exactly once before, in his response to Yakumo. But going into this any further would only lead to pointless bickering too close to deadline (and a potential mislynch). I still don't buy his reasons. Maybe if I got him to talk more about other people I could either confirm my suspicions or discover them false.

I'm inclined to believe VSM's allegience, though the flavor sadly eludes me.

I'm not sure about CK's roleclaim; I can't get a read on him either way.

Nitori is a prime candidate for pruning, as far as I can see. He isn't being terribly useful, his vote for VSM and stated reasons for it (as well as the timing) are puzzling, and we have gone on less previously to prune.

After glancing at Strago's posts on a whim, I noticed he posted about technical stuff (players suiciding/not wanting to play, people not voting) but not much aside from his case on CK. There are mentions of Bobbin and Otter, but they don't seem to be of actual scumtells, only strangeness he found and shared with us. All valid, but I would like to ask Strago to comment more on other people. Unless I somehow missed it, he has avoided the VSM discussion so far, for example. Do you believe VSM? If so, any thoughts about the votes bringing VSM to 5 out of 8 necessary for lynch?

CPU's replacement, Fnorder, is someone I have a horribly convoluted meta reason to vote for (since out of two quitting players he was the only one replaced, which leads me to believe Cid wanted to avoid modkilling scum on a technicality the first day). Hardly a real reason, so I just want to see Fnorder be more active so I can replace this weird desire to vote him off the island with an actual read into him.

[Taishyr]

Well, shit. Okay. I'm definitely fine with where my vote is, now; Nitori's explanation just rubs me the wrong way, though I can't put a finger on why, and I don't agree with the case on either VSM or CK, after re-read (yes, VSM has been... passive's the best word I can put into it, as has CK, but it... neither has tried to slip under the radar; VSM replied gamely to challenges against him while CK has been commenting on what he sees) so... vote stands. And hell, while I see why the roleclaims were done, I wish they hadn't been necessary. Not a good situation to be in.

[Hunter Sopko]

In the interests of a vote... none of the people at the moment are on my suspect list (CK or Nitori)... but CK, vis a vis Shale, feels like a right scumbus to me, as CK jumps out at me at the moment more than Nitori... so...

##Vote: CK

[Veryslightlymad]

I need to go to sleep sometime soon. I'll throw CK under the bridge if I have to (no offense, but I like me more than I like you.) but for some reason, I'm inclined to believe his claim. I'd be happier if we both managed to survive the day period, but I guess I'd be somewhat less enthusiastic if Nitori wound up being our doctor again.

[Hunter Sopko]

Forgot about the CK roleclaim. Keeping my vote on him anyway. Tis' a bluff, I say!

::Hunkers down somewhere safe, preferably away from his own stupidity::

[Veryslightlymad]

On the other hand, the time-ending no-lynch might be preferable to lynching myself or Commander, assuming he's telling the truth. I don't see what gains we make by lynching him right now, so I'm just going to go to bed. I won't be up at the deadline because my sleeping habits are hard enough to control already.

It's the return of the KEYSTONE COPS, BITCHES.

[Carthrat]

Flavour isn't an issue with regard to roles.

VSM's role is interesting. He's overstating the power it has; it's a much stronger role late-game than early, especially if he lives to LYLO. It's a role that, in the DL at least, has been traditionally a town role. But demonstrating that it exists doesn't clear him of suspicion. I believe the role is a neutral one which could easily belong to either side (and is really quite powerful in scum hands.) Going for no-lynch is an unwise thing to say on his part. I'm getting kind of leery of the people defending him at present.

CK eventually unvoted for Shale and targeted VSM, along with a fairly potent (if it can be believed) roleclaim. I can presume that alongside wanting to stay alive by knocking out some other target (which is actually good townie play, to a degree, people!), he was somewhat satisfied with Shale's responses.

I'm gonna agree with Sopko's earlier statement that Cranbud's defence of VSM does draw suspicion to Bobbin himself. I'd like to draw attention to this post: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2224#msg2224

In it, Bobbin spends most of his time defending me and my irritated fit of pique over CPU and Unoriginal. He seems to make all the right allowances, saying that my actions are understandable, although somewhat odd and strange! He kind of leaves a phrase hanging over Yakumo-

I find it a little strange that Yakumo would come back so soon saying it leaves 'a bad taste in his mouth.'

. This is with regards to voting off townies playing badly and seeing it as a grim necessity. But it seemed pretty obvious to me that Yakumo must've felt mostly the same way I did; what makes this strange?

<->

I'm still voting for VSM, though. It's just too close to deadline and he just looks worse to me than anyone else. I can't in good conscience unvote him just for having a role which could go either way, and ultimately isn't terribly strong to begin with.

[Kilgamayan]

Odd, when I had the doublevote role in the FFT game the second vote was time-released.

[Kilgamayan]

Kilga kinda backed out on hitting CmdrKing like he said he would before and hit VSM instead on grounds of lurking

Initially I was planning on swinging back to CK once VSM had given me what I wanted in his reactions. The problem was that I wasn't terribly satisfied with his answers, and in looking back at Sea Kay's posts since I stated he was high on my list, it had seemed to me that he had gotten better in his content. In looking back again right now I have to disagree with myself, though, since there was not nearly the content in his posts that I thought there was.

Argh. It's times like this I had two votes so I wouldn't have to make a choice. >_>

VSM's at 5 while Sea Kay's at 4 (will be 6 if VSM decides he wants to save himself, which is a very good possibility). With one hour to go, I guess I can just camp out here and see how things play out. I'll have no problem changing my vote and I'll have no problem keeping it where it is.

[Kilgamayan]

*I wish I had two votes

You win again, edit button!

[Corwin]

My vote is getting wasted as things are, as there seem to be only three possible targets now, none of whom I'm voting for. Can't in good conscience vote for VSM, and when the choice is between CK and Nitori, the latter looks the worst to me. Therefore, ##Unvote, ##Vote: Nitori.

[Sierra]

Update!

Cmdr_King (4): Strago, Shale, Mad Fnorder, Hunter Sopko
Corwin (1): Otter
Hunter Sopko (1): Corwin, Yakumo
Kilgamayan (1): Bobbin Cranbud
Nitori (4): Anonymous, Mad Fnorder, Taishyr, VSM, Corwin
Shale (0): Cmdr_King
VSM (5): Kilgamayan, Nitori, Carthrat, Excal, Cmdr_King

With fifteen alive, it takes eight to lynch.

There is 1 hour until the deadline.

[Strago]

After glancing at Strago's posts on a whim, I noticed he posted about technical stuff (players suiciding/not wanting to play, people not voting) but not much aside from his case on CK. There are mentions of Bobbin and Otter, but they don't seem to be of actual scumtells, only strangeness he found and shared with us. All valid, but I would like to ask Strago to comment more on other people. Unless I somehow missed it, he has avoided the VSM discussion so far, for example. Do you believe VSM? If so, any thoughts about the votes bringing VSM to 5 out of 8 necessary for lynch?

Yeah, fair cop. I've stuck mostly to my case against CK because I had a gut feeling about him and I still do. He's done nothing but project and appearance of productivity, and every time he's called on it he seems very contrite but does little to actually increase his contributions. And now he's started the whole "roleclaim defense" stage of the game with something that A) cannot be proven/disproven and B) could easily be a scum role. In fact it's much more likely to be a scum role, I think, than VSM's doublevote.

As for the votes against VSM? Well, Kilga's been hammering him for a while now over what seemed vaguely specious to me, since VSM was talking to some extent; Kilga looks a bit worse now, to me, because having been a witness to the FFT Vigilante debacle I can understand and believe VSM's wish to play with a few more reservations. Well, I guess I should say VSM looks better, but I guess that makes Kilga look slightly worse by default. It can of course be said of Kilga that he clearly isn't doing the tried and true safe middle scum vote.

There's not much to be said of the Commander's vote for VSM either way. It's the move to be expected no matter which side he's on.

If VSM dies and flips town, I think Nitori's vote is going to look real dirty to me. Apart from that, having been in several games with Nitori I just don't know what to do with him. He's always vaguely quiet and unhelpful no matter which side he's on.

Carthrat generally looks like town to me, at the moment. This could, of course, just be because he's playing much more aggressively (massively so, really) than I've seen him play in previous games where he was scum. This could, of course, be a scummy Carth doing what wouldn't be expected of him. Because of this I'm going to be going through his old posts a bit, in the future, as well as keeping a sharp eye on him for the weird slip-ups that one would expect a scum playing so aggressively to make.

Excal I'm drawing a near-total blank on, apart from the fact that I don't like his involvement in the late-to-the-party EvilTom voters. Obviously I need to look more closely at Excal.

And in other news, I'll go ahead and upgrade my earlier comments regarding Otter to a full-blown "I think you may be scum." So, the ol' Finger of Seduc... Suspicion. Your general silence and lack of content is bizarre to me, as is the fact that your vote is sitting somewhere useless right now. We are going to lose our lynch if we don't hit 8, right? I'm not just making this up? My eye is on you, Otter.