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Author Topic: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.  (Read 692702 times)

DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #600 on: February 07, 2009, 09:04:01 AM »
Did I ever give anyone the impression I like to LARP, ever, or is Djinn just making a straw-man argument here? I think the only P&P games I've ever played are MW3rd and Paranoia!, neither of which lend themselves too well to LARP. Too much set work.

I have no idea if you've ever LARPed or whatnot, but for the intent of the post, it was the equivalent of a 'your FACE' joke in that it wasn't meant to be really mean, just kind of good-natured jabbing. Which is what I assumed your "you like shit and are proud of it" comment was supposed to be, only I got too defensive.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 09:46:00 AM by DjinnAndTonic »

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #601 on: February 07, 2009, 09:30:30 AM »
I run/play in Anime Crossover LARPs at conventions. It's really fun. You guys should come too.

This has nothing to do with previous arguments.

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #602 on: February 07, 2009, 12:06:53 PM »
Just going to make a quick comment in here...

unpublishable in fiction

Is an ENTIRELY moot point. Somehow analyzing RPGs in a bubble outside their audiovisual cues, setting, optional/hidden discoveries, gameplay relations to plot, etc. strips out all the strong points of the medium and is utterly pointless.

Anyhow, haven't really been playing anything lately, outside MMOing it up with a bunch of other DL folks. I've been heavily swamped in exams.
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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #603 on: February 07, 2009, 03:32:58 PM »
Disgaea 3: The game is really suffering from a lack of strong female characters. Disgaea 1/2 had those from the start and it really helped the game's go along. Dis3 has nothing of the sort. The only female character period is a goddamned Hanako knockoff loli. Fail.

Gameplay is Disgaea. Which I enjoy, but I would seriously rather just replay Dis2. The changes to item world and combat are neat, but not enough so to justify the timesink the game is going to turn into when the main game annoys. The refinements are neat enough. Setting is not doing it for me either.
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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #604 on: February 07, 2009, 03:37:27 PM »
Quote
Is an ENTIRELY moot point. Somehow analyzing RPGs in a bubble outside their audiovisual cues, setting, optional/hidden discoveries, gameplay relations to plot, etc. strips out all the strong points of the medium and is utterly pointless.

-Everything has setting. Clarify?
-Audiovisual cues, gameplay relations to the plot: Agreed! This is where RPGs have an advantage (although motion picture of any kind also has the audiovisual). Sadly they make almost no use of this, particularly the latter, the one really unique to them.
-Optional/hidden discoveries: These on the other hand are used, but usually they are used terribly. HEY IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO PLAY A THIRTY HOUR GAME, IF YOU WANT ALL THE PLOT YOU MUST PLAY IT AGAIN OR BUY A GUIDE. It's possible for something like this to be used well but I haven't seen it.

Basically I'm well aware the genre has some unique potential, ways to utilise the strong points of the medium as you put it. Unfortunately RPGs prefer to mimic the fictional styles set by novels, television, movies, and anime, and do a bad job of it.


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Ryogo

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #605 on: February 07, 2009, 05:21:35 PM »
Also, according to the walkthrough, I'm a little underleveled. By like, 6-10 levels.

Which means you're probably about the right level.

Except I know I could be a higher level. I got frustrated with the amount of battles they were throwing at me/just wanted to save and turn it off that I just ran away from a bunch of battles for a while. I'll end up running around for 30 minutes/an hour and that should fix me up decently enough. It just been a while since I picked it up last, so I don't remember half of the enemies weaknesses off the top of my head anymore.

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It used to be years ago, back when I was a pre-teen. Lawl, I looked up everything about everything about all the side quests and such. Like with FF7, I heard something about getting a chocobo that could go anywhere, so I promptly went and looked up a guide for the awesome game of Chocobo Inbreeding. The only RPG I had at the time though was FF7, so it wasn't too bad. Any game that wasn't an RPG I owned though I knew all the cheat codes for and constantly cheated. Woooooo.

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #606 on: February 07, 2009, 05:46:19 PM »
-Everything has setting. Clarify?

Everything has setting, yes.  Not everything uses setting well.  A well-crafted setting can turn a mediocre story into a work of genius (see:  Francine Prose's Guided Tours of Hell, and on the opposite end of the spectrum, Jerzy Kosinski's Steps, which makes use of a setting that only comes up in between the lines but is a book that would not work with a less subtle setting).  Some RPGs do not do this; the setting is just a means to get you from point A to point B.  But those are few, thinking on it;  most RPGs actually create a good setting.  Fallout does this.  PS:Torment does this.  FFT does this quite well, since the history of the world is well documented and plays a large part in the story.  The Suikoden series, as a whole, does it fairly well, too.  The setting, often, doesn't even have to relate to the plot to have a good setting.  DQ8, for example, had such a well done world map that I considered filling out the bestiary so I could get the no encounter accessory and just wander around in it, for instance.

For the most part, setting is almost always the most well done part of the game.  I was thinking of examples that don't create a good, or at the bare minimum, interesting setting.  I could only come up with Lufia1-2, BoF1, WA1 (mostly because the setting is there but not utilised at all), and a handful of NES games.  This is one of the few things the genre does well.  Even dreg games like Fire Emblem and Phantasy Star often have interesting settings.

The reason why this rarely comes up in discussion of RPGs, though?  Well, it largely gets ignored because it is easy to ignore it.  If you're not thinking about its merits in relation to more "literary" mediums, then in all likelyhood you see it just as how some games treat it: as a means to get through the story.  But really, this is probably where the genre shines.

Though, thinking on it it is probably a videogame thing more than an RPG thing.  The story-heavy non-RPGs I like often have very well crafted settings.

I agree with the rest, however; RPGs never have their AV cues and gameplay relations to plot discussed because they are never utilised well, and optional content is very rarely utilised well.  This never gets discussed because it's usually not worth mentioning.

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #607 on: February 07, 2009, 06:45:49 PM »
I thought WA4 made some casual brushes with integrating plot power in to gameplay, re: Jude. He's unreasonably fast and durable because he's some kind of genetic freak, rather than the arbitrary reason. I'd like to see it more frequently used, but that's mostly because "cut-scene power activate!" offends me.

Anyway, I am playing the Dawn of War 2 beta. It is pretty good, even though I feel most of the maps they gave us are kind of WTF. One of them has your bases right next to each other in a corner of the map, which inevitably leads to an endless fight over the control point between you which you can never lose because your supply lines are so short, but at the same time, if you give it up you lose victory points which is bad.

All in all, I find the cover system pretty intuitive, and I like the focus on having less types of units which can be customized to fill your needs. For example, instead of having a rocket infantry, a plasma gun infantry, and a flamer infantry, they have a tactical squad you build, and then you decide what sort of weapon to outfit them with. Also Dreadnaughts are pretty awesome.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 06:49:49 PM by Rob the Stampede »

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #608 on: February 07, 2009, 08:37:35 PM »
Super: SN and MMXCM arrived. Did SN not have an instruction booklet when I sent it to you? I honestly can't recall. Not that a booklet is really important for a game I've beaten three or four times, just saying.

Anywho, am ready to take on THE DREGS OF GIGA CITY. Watch out, world.

superaielman

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #609 on: February 07, 2009, 09:34:24 PM »
I can't remember if it did. I'll take a look around and see if it pops up.
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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #610 on: February 08, 2009, 02:05:11 AM »
Touhou: Highly Responsive to Players.  Clear.  Albeit using probably 3-digits worth of continues.  OMG, Touhou FMV, sorta!

Touhou: The Story of Eastern Wonderland.  You know, I'm not sure why people consider 4 and not 2 to be the first regular Touhou in the series.  Not only is this a scrolling shooter, but boss marisa is in it with the same boss music as she has in Imperishable Night, and some of the same attacks.  Cleared Easy, but did not 1cc :(

Touhou: Phantasmagoria of Dim Dream.  Umm...wow, it's pretty much whole-cloth identical to PoFV.  Couple things I like more about it (the fairy replacements can take more than one hit, and display their current HP to you, and don't come up behind you).  1cced the 1-player (easy).

EDIT: Touhou: Mystic Square: 1cced Easy.  Wasn't expecting that after the whole "this game is really hard" hype.  Maybe Lunatic is really hard, but I'm not one to judge lunatic; easy was reasonable, though.

EDIT2: Touhou: Lotus Land Story: Failed to 1cc Easy; the really insulting part is that I have 1cced easy on this before >_>

EDIT3: Highly Responsive to Players, route B--holy crap, stages 6-20 are totally different.  (Granted, played on easy this time as I figured out how to change difficulty, but I'm pretty sure the boss sprites and moves were all different due to the choice at the end of stage 5, not the difficutly; in fact I'm not sure what difficulty actually adjusts; the shots during the non-boss stages, maybe?)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 04:22:48 AM by metroid composite »

Meeplelard

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #611 on: February 08, 2009, 03:21:59 AM »
DMC1 Hard Mode: Finally finished! I just said "fuck it" and ran back to grind for an Untouchable.  I actually found the way out of Hell, and found a ncie room with easy respawning enemies that sometimes come in huge waves who get nuked easily by Grenade Gun!  Turns out said untouchable was all I needed, since I had forgotten how much more damage Sparda does than the DT Fireball thing.  I also learned its more efficient to use Charge Shots than rapid fire.

I then died in the next mission to a Shadow in a TIGHT CORRIDOR out of nowhere.  Beat him on the second try, but that was a nasty surprise.  Mundus' final form...uhh...he had more damage than in Normal mode!  Pity it still struggled to out pace DTs Regen, and got killed fast.
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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #612 on: February 08, 2009, 05:56:25 AM »
L4D-Two Expert Campaigns down, just two more to go! Found a good group that followed my commands without question, so I'll see about getting them together to knock off the other two later.

Zombie Kill Count: 49,000ish

Tales of Vesperia-Been playing this the last couple days, supposed to go find some city that got hit by an earthquake. So far it's been pretty decent. Yuri is likable enough, Repede is awesome. Estelle's sort of been hitting the naive Staff Chick role a little too hard, the kid doesn't even deserve me remembering my name, and Rita's just sort of a bitch. Battle system is pretty fun.

Say, is it just me or is that one wolf boss you fight in the hill area way hard? I mean, I'm steamrolling everything else without a problem and then this motherfucker spams me to death in the corner in seconds. I beat him, finally, but it took a ton of Life Bottles. Other than that the game hasn't been very hard at all.

Thanks again, Pyro!
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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #613 on: February 08, 2009, 07:25:09 AM »
L4D-Two Expert Campaigns down, just two more to go! Found a good group that followed my commands without question, so I'll see about getting them together to knock off the other two later.

Zombie Kill Count: 49,000ish

Tales of Vesperia-Been playing this the last couple days, supposed to go find some city that got hit by an earthquake. So far it's been pretty decent. Yuri is likable enough, Repede is awesome. Estelle's sort of been hitting the naive Staff Chick role a little too hard, the kid doesn't even deserve me remembering my name, and Rita's just sort of a bitch. Battle system is pretty fun.

Say, is it just me or is that one wolf boss you fight in the hill area way hard? I mean, I'm steamrolling everything else without a problem and then this motherfucker spams me to death in the corner in seconds. I beat him, finally, but it took a ton of Life Bottles. Other than that the game hasn't been very hard at all.

Thanks again, Pyro!

Yes, the bastards a hard fucker.  Only two others I can say are as hard as him.

And speaking of that...

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #614 on: February 08, 2009, 08:50:03 AM »
Heroes of Might and Magic 3:
How the FUCK did Red get all those goddamn fucking dragons?! Not to mention the ANGELS they got for taking on 120 griffins, which was only possible because of their ass-rapingly ridiculous amount of dragons. FUCK. I was playing what I thought was a good game, managing to get two cities upgraded to near full, and then BAM! DRAGONS EVERYWHERE. Jesus goddamn christ.

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #615 on: February 08, 2009, 09:23:58 AM »
TF2:  Went into one of those achievement grinding servers, got all the heavy weapons.  Natasha isn't that useful, nor is the KGB, but The Sandvich is nice, though sometimes you want the shotgun instead. 

Honestly, not really that impressed compared with the previous achievement weapons sets.  It's hard to want to switch to a melee weapon when you have tons of damage coming from your primary weapon.  Maybe Natasha's slow effect is better than it seems since I've been playing aorund with it?  Maybe.

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #616 on: February 08, 2009, 09:25:40 AM »
Nat is getting patched to be better, I recall hearing.


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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #617 on: February 08, 2009, 09:45:10 AM »
Heroes of Might and Magic 3:
How the FUCK did Red get all those goddamn fucking dragons?! Not to mention the ANGELS they got for taking on 120 griffins, which was only possible because of their ass-rapingly ridiculous amount of dragons. FUCK. I was playing what I thought was a good game, managing to get two cities upgraded to near full, and then BAM! DRAGONS EVERYWHERE. Jesus goddamn christ.

The main reason I only like to play HOMM with other people instead of AIs? The AI cheats. They don't use better AI programs when you turn the difficulty up, they just give them an invisible, uninterruptible flow of resources that gets bigger as you turn the difficulty up.

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #618 on: February 08, 2009, 11:15:10 AM »
Something unique to the medium that games can do is have organic plot flow.  Fallout does it, with integrating the main plot in with the setting a great deal and then making the game freeform the player has optional side ways to discover the plot that are not necessary nor are they secret hidden away things that require replays to find.  Fallout is amazing.

Also for lol setting, Lufia is actually a really good example.  The series is like 4 things long and only 2 games have worlds that even resemble each other and that one is a direct sequel to Lufia 2 but is pretty irrelevant to the overarching plot of the series (unless I am totally missing something about Lufia 4).  Otherwise the state of the world in each game is nothing even closely similar to the way it was in other games.  So you have good sets of examples for your argument in there Zenny.

Wild Arms 4 does indeed try to integrate pretty much every character's gameplay powers into the plot at least once.

Quality of plot can easilly be described as unpublishable in RPGs.  Writing quality maybe not so much for raw dialogue, but what you see on screen should be able to be described in a book.  FF4 bad scene with slow moving hand is just as unpublishable in text as it is presented visually.
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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #619 on: February 08, 2009, 03:13:31 PM »
MMXCM: Played the first couple chapters. Seems like a decent piece of fluff.

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #620 on: February 08, 2009, 03:44:14 PM »
those with WC3, I am extremely bored and felt like bringing up some old reps.

http://www.dota-allstars.com/replay/94574/index.html (I'm DL.Nephritenee)
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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #621 on: February 08, 2009, 04:04:42 PM »
Quality of plot can easilly be described as unpublishable in RPGs.  Writing quality maybe not so much for raw dialogue, but what you see on screen should be able to be described in a book.  FF4 bad scene with slow moving hand is just as unpublishable in text as it is presented visually.

Nah, FF4 is an example of a game that is really easy to convert.  Probably the easiest RPG out there, in fact.  You're just thinking about it too literally.  Yes, if you describe exactly what happens on-screen it's silly, but why would someone writing a book hew so closely to what is a scene visually limited by the medium.  A simple phrase like "before they could react" or "overcome with fatigue from their hard-fought battle" makes the hand thing work just fine.
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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #622 on: February 08, 2009, 05:21:03 PM »
Quote
Tales of Vesperia-Been playing this the last couple days, supposed to go find some city that got hit by an earthquake. So far it's been pretty decent. Yuri is likable enough, Repede is awesome. Estelle's sort of been hitting the naive Staff Chick role a little too hard, the kid doesn't even deserve me remembering my name, and Rita's just sort of a bitch. Battle system is pretty fun.

Say, is it just me or is that one wolf boss you fight in the hill area way hard? I mean, I'm steamrolling everything else without a problem and then this motherfucker spams me to death in the corner in seconds. I beat him, finally, but it took a ton of Life Bottles. Other than that the game hasn't been very hard at all.

The wolf is That One Boss, yes. Randomly hard as hell.

Ar Tonelico 2: Finished. Nice enough ending. Overall the game is sub-par due to a) combat system that isn't much fun, and b) a localization that is very possibly one of the worst on overall quality I've ever seen.

Still like the game's overall style. Hymnos songs for boss fights being the big favorite. It's a pity none of the boss fights really deserve them. Final boss is a good example. AWESOME music to accompany the fight, but you don't even need to heal once to crush the fight to little bits. The game is balanced so that you will be all right if you miss blocks regularly, so someone with average skill in blocking just crushes it effortlessly, basically. Pity it had to be that way but it is Gust so what was I expecting?

I will throw out a nod to the Jacqli ending for elevating Croix to "above average" by RPG male lead standards (I know this says little). Overall the game would have been vastly improved without the silly harem element, as always. But oh well, the inneundo is fairly hilarious at times and I don't really have much to add. Just a sub-par game that has a certain charm to it.

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #623 on: February 08, 2009, 06:51:18 PM »
WA:XF- Went through Chapter 3-11 on the bus to the city... well, most of it. I finished the first battle right as I was pulling into the Port Authority. Then I realized, hey, boss battle! Shit. So I ended up standing in the middle of Port Authority for 20 minutes finishing not only Felius' one on one battle but the party one following it, leaning against a pillar and trying not to get trampled. Reconfiguring the whole party's jobs, skills and equipment top-to-bottom (I'd gone into the first battle as all Extremists to make things easier) is not fun in the middle of foot traffic.

::Kicks XF for not being able to save in or between some battles::

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Re: Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.
« Reply #624 on: February 08, 2009, 07:38:49 PM »
Quality of plot can easilly be described as unpublishable in RPGs.  Writing quality maybe not so much for raw dialogue, but what you see on screen should be able to be described in a book.  FF4 bad scene with slow moving hand is just as unpublishable in text as it is presented visually.

Nah, FF4 is an example of a game that is really easy to convert.  Probably the easiest RPG out there, in fact.  You're just thinking about it too literally.  Yes, if you describe exactly what happens on-screen it's silly, but why would someone writing a book hew so closely to what is a scene visually limited by the medium.  A simple phrase like "before they could react" or "overcome with fatigue from their hard-fought battle" makes the hand thing work just fine.

FF4 would work in comic book form... shockingly well.