Games you're playing: The 2009 edition.

[Grefter]

Tier lists are stupid stupid things that are stupid stupid stupid and you should be evaluating your characters on a game by game basis because these shitty fucking shit shit games are so random that no matter what the statistical average is you are never going to be able to perfectly trust stupid stupid things that are stupid stupid stupid and shit happens.  This has nothing to do with the quality of the game, but on the competence of the players here being able to adapt to the randomized nature of the (admittedly shitty) gameplay that goes with these Shitty McShitShit games.

I was just about to say that.

[Dhyerwolf]

Thought so, but I doubt the facts will stand in the way of knowing, becuase Dis 1 feels more polished.  I forget exactly what it is at the moment, but there's something that felt pretty significant that Dis 1 did right, and PB didn't.

If Disgaea 1 has a more polished gameplay system than another game, than that other game has some serious issues.

[Cotigo]

At least it avoids pissing on religion and doesn't dismiss rape as trivial so it can slap lategame XS3 plot in a cripple fight,

Wait what.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Clearly you haven't read XS3 spoilers. Count your blessings, man.

[Fudozukushi]

Thought so, but I doubt the facts will stand in the way of knowing, becuase Dis 1 feels more polished.  I forget exactly what it is at the moment, but there's something that felt pretty significant that Dis 1 did right, and PB didn't.

If Disgaea 1 has a more polished gameplay system than another game, than that other game has some serious issues.

La Pucelle: Tactics.

[Cmdr_King]

Nah, I can kinda see it in Phantom Brave's case.  They basically invented an all new movement, turn, weapon, and SP system, in addition to the mechanics changes necessitated by the story (Confine, phantoms, etc) and threw them all into one game.  So the fine tuned control Disgaea had over turn order and ability learning was diminished.  Mind you, aside from being less forgiving on take-backs it tended to be more different than outright worse.

all that said, various of these ideas were taken into Soul Nomad and Makai Kingdom and, I suspect, polished further there.  It's probably more honest to think of those as a separate sub-series of experimentation from Disgaea which tended to be more linear addition of ideas.

[Tonfa]

Less polished absolutely no way, less documented maybe. (Always use a Fusionist in your party, levels lower fusion costs)

If anything Makai Kingdom was the giant melting pot of ideas that didn't manage to polish any.

[Cmdr_King]

Oh, PB wasn't really a melting pot.  Pretty much every idea in it was new. Just, innovation in video games can often have negative effects as kinks are worked out of systems.

You never had problems with, say, moving a character to guage if they could hit an enemy, discovered they couldn't, but when you tried to cancel their actions it only moved you part way back, or you fell off things, that sort of thing? That's what came to mind when Excal mentioned a lack of polish, since the confine/item stealing/turn systems worked better than I really expected for so many new systems working all at once.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

You never had problems with, say, moving a character to guage if they could hit an enemy, discovered they couldn't, but when you tried to cancel their actions it only moved you part way back, or you fell off things, that sort of thing?

Press square before moving more.

[Tide]

As an in game tier thing...I have no idea how Matthew manages to be anywhere near High tier.

Tier lists assume he isn't promoted and aren't judging him on combat worth, mainly (except for some earlygame goodness when he's the only one who can double besides Guy). I still think he's overrated, but I understand the arguments - he's the only way to get a bunch of stuff before Dragon's Gate.

Oh, I can understand the arguments as well (and FYI, I think he's overrated as well - screw GameFAQs >_>), just that earlygame Thief use seems overexaggerated there. And on top of that, you get other things to make up for opening doors/chests, which means Matt's real distinction from those is Stealing from other units. I think we can agree that as a combat unit, he doesn't shine particularly well compared to others - although having a huge AS lead in the beginning and Lyn mode certainly helps.

Gref: Eh, FE in-game tier lists to me is just like FFT Theory talk. You know I enjoy those. For all that FFT Theory talk > FE Tier list debates. That and I also think FFT > FE7 so yeah >_>

[Excal]

Nah, gameplay in PB and Dis1 is different enough that I'm not directly comparing them.  Actually, I remembered what it is that was really giving me this impression.  It's the scene skip.  In Dis 1, you hit a different button depending on whether or not you want to see the scene.  In PB, you select the stage and then you get the scene skip option.  Only, every single time it comes up, my instincts pop in and say "Yes, I do want to go to that level.  Wait...  that was the scene skip...  FUCK!" followed shortly by a reset.  This has happened every single time.  And it will continue happening, because that is what it is in every other game that sticks a dialogue box in that place, and the instinct kicks in so fast, that by the time I've finished reading the words "Scene Skip" I've already finished confirming that I want to enter that level.

And that is why I think Dis 1 feels like it was made after PB.  Because Dis 1 had a very nice, very eligant solution to something that is aggrivating me to no end in PB, and feels like it should be such a non issue.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

It's the scene skip.

... ~

* Jo'ou Ranbu pretends this didn't happen to me for the first three hours of the game.

[Cotigo]

Clearly you haven't read XS3 spoilers. Count your blessings, man.

Well, I knew about the pissing on Religion.  That at least sounds entertaining.  What's this nonsense about trivializing rape?

[superaielman]

MOMO in the ending: "Say hi to Albedo for me!"

That is almost her only line in the ending. XS3.

Oh yeah. I bought Contra DS Zenny. How hard is it?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

MOMO hits on Albedo at the end of XS3 even though he mindraped her in a ceremony that's eerily close to actual rape in XS1.

[Cotigo]

MOMO in the ending: "Say hi to Albedo for me!"

That is almost her only line in the ending. XS3.

Oh yeah. I bought Contra DS Zenny. How hard is it?

Ah.  All right.  I can see that bit of stupidity getting largely bypassed by everyone.  Mostly I was confused as to why there hadn't been some uproar about it. (EDIT: Outside of the DL, if that weren't clear.

Contra DS is hard.  Very hard.  Annoyingly hard.  Unless you're playing on Easy.  But then you can't play the last stage. 

So, you know.  It's Contra.

[Sierra]

MOMO in the ending: "Say hi to Albedo for me!"

That is almost her only line in the ending. XS3.

The XS writers were Albedo fanboys for some reason. Hell, the end of XS2, with Albedo being carried away by a heavenly procession of the little girls he brutally killed made me want to punch through the TV at least as much as anything in XS3.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Didn't I mention how -embarrassingly pathetic- that scene was when I beat XS2?

[superaielman]

I forgot that scene. Thanks for making me want to set fire to that series more, Cid!

[Cotigo]

Oh, yeah, that.  I forgot about that because of the hamhanded "LOL SUP I'M JESUS" scene right afterwards with chaos.  I guess that scene's less pathetic if you aren't aware that Yeshua=Jesus?  But there's something wrong with a scene only working due to a presumed ignorance on the part of the audience.

[Sierra]

The scene is not improved by ignorance. I was not aware of the whole Yeshua = Jesus thing at the time I first played the game but nevertheless made the correct assumption just because of XS's constant, masturbatory bible references. I mean, it was really just a matter of time. Could anyone not tell just from XS1 that chaos backstory was going to be epically dumb?

As for the MOMO rape thing not getting picked up on outside the DL, Zenny? Eh, XS1 sold well for a JRPG, I think, but it's still part of a niche genre and you have to invest 25-30 hours into the game to even see that scene. Put it in an American game and sure, I can see media watchdog types seizing on it, but JRPGs just aren't popular enough here to attract controversy (for the most part; maybe if it was in a Final Fantasy game someone would notice).

I forgot that scene. Thanks for making me want to set fire to that series more, Cid!

Here to help, man.

[Meeplelard]

Rhapsody: Just finished the Cat Restaurant thingy.

Man, this game has been so challenging.  I mean, the last boss just pulled out borderline 3HKO damage on me. 3HKO damage.  And he took me like 3 turns to kill him with a party of 4! Man, I don't think I can handle much more of this...

[Dark Holy Elf]

So if he'd used his best damage every turn on the same person you might have had to HEAL? Truly Godlike.

[TranceHime]

Boohoo. Also, NIDDLEGUN

[Niu]

MOMO in the ending: "Say hi to Albedo for me!"

That is almost her only line in the ending. XS3.

The XS writers were Albedo fanboys for some reason. Hell, the end of XS2, with Albedo being carried away by a heavenly procession of the little girls he brutally killed made me want to punch through the TV at least as much as anything in XS3.

Stop reminding me how the change of writer between XS1 & 2 totally destroyed everything.
What supposedly should have happened there is only one Krisshweser there to carry him away. What's her number... three hundred something I forgot. Anyway, she is the same one got absorbed by Simeon to boot up the Anima Relic. She supposedly has a long back story Albedo with whole bunch of love/hate going between them. The relationship eventually hit a dead end because Albedo don't know how to express his love and the when that Krisshweser has been insecure of herself ever since she got assigned to a suicidal mission by Sellers (in which she saved Albedo accidentally). The said Krisshweser eventually fled from Albedo and lived as a common 100th Type, but still return to him as she has no where to go. Then she decided to sacrifice herself to Simeon thinking that is the only meaningful thing left for her to do after listening to Virgil's vicious words.

Really, this could have been interesting and can give Albedo some character outside just being psychotic.