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Author Topic: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.  (Read 74565 times)

superaielman

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #525 on: August 28, 2009, 09:13:08 PM »
I was surprised by the lack of vitrol from the right about Kennedy's death. About the worst thing I read on a semi reputable site was calling him out on his personal excesses damaging his career.
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Dunefar

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #526 on: August 28, 2009, 09:16:49 PM »
I was surprised by the lack of vitrol from the right about Kennedy's death. About the worst thing I read on a semi reputable site was calling him out on his personal excesses damaging his career.

I saw something on Chadda-whatever I can't spell that offhand. I'm not sure how bad of a low blow that is, but it's in poor taste to bring that up on the day he died.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #527 on: August 28, 2009, 09:21:06 PM »
I was surprised by the lack of vitrol from the right about Kennedy's death. About the worst thing I read on a semi reputable site was calling him out on his personal excesses damaging his career.

I agree.  And even the nice stuff talks about Chappaquiddick damaging his career, so that's not too exceptional.

Well, Limbaugh has been out in force, but Limbaugh.

EDIT: I don't think it's that low, really.  It's an important part of his life story.  I don't think we do the dead or ourselves any favors by censoring unpleasant content when we look back at them.  Sanitize the language?  Absolutely.  But don't shrink from the facts.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2009, 09:23:40 PM by NotMiki »
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #528 on: August 28, 2009, 09:52:30 PM »
I think he's generally perceived to have payed for Chappaquiddick. But for it, he'd have almost certainly been president, after all. I agree that these things deserve air-time though; in Kennedy's case it's an extremely important part of his story. Everybody likes a good tale of redemption.

On the one hand, I suspect the right fears that any sort of post-mortem badmouthing of Kennedy could also give the liberals a boost in the health-care debate. Alternately, well, he was an insider, an elder statesman, and a master of the deal, so it's probably equally true that large portions of the right are disinclined to pile onto him, no matter how much they disagree with his politics.

EDIT: liberal standard-bearers for the future?  Russ Feingold, Henry Waxman, Barney Frank.

It's sad, but I feel like Feingold has already been relegated to a fringe-y sort of irrelevance in the media narrative. Not that this is irreversible (and I see it as something of a badge of honour, frankly), but I suspect his influence in the party and government is therefore pretty sharply capped at present. I'd love to see that change, and he's certainly still young enough to turn it around, and should there be (hope hope!) any sort of progressive/centrist split in the party, I'd expect to see him at the forefront.

Waxman's definitely important, but the man is also 70 years old; I suspect he's pushing the height of his influence with Energy and Commerce (not that this is insignificant!).

Frank's sort of the same situation; he's the same age, though he seems a little bit more vigorous to me. He could have Kennedy's seat if he wanted it, of course, but I'm not sure a couple of terms as a junior senator beats out head of Financial Services. Still, he's a bit more outspoken, a bit more charismatic than Waxman, I could see him easing into the role of the spiritual leader of the progressive left.

superaielman

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #529 on: August 28, 2009, 10:01:32 PM »
Quote
On the one hand, I suspect the right fears that any sort of post-mortem badmouthing of Kennedy could also give the liberals a boost in the health-care debate. Alternately, well, he was an insider, an elder statesman, and a master of the deal, so it's probably equally true that large portions of the right are disinclined to pile onto him, no matter how much they disagree with his politics.

More the latter in this case. Kennedy was definitely old school in that regard in terms of building relationships.

Besides which, not like the democrats wouldn't fuck up any given advantage with health care at this point.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #530 on: August 29, 2009, 12:09:19 AM »
It's sad, but I feel like Feingold has already been relegated to a fringe-y sort of irrelevance in the media narrative. Not that this is irreversible (and I see it as something of a badge of honour, frankly), but I suspect his influence in the party and government is therefore pretty sharply capped at present. I'd love to see that change, and he's certainly still young enough to turn it around, and should there be (hope hope!) any sort of progressive/centrist split in the party, I'd expect to see him at the forefront.

Waxman's definitely important, but the man is also 70 years old; I suspect he's pushing the height of his influence with Energy and Commerce (not that this is insignificant!).

Frank's sort of the same situation; he's the same age, though he seems a little bit more vigorous to me. He could have Kennedy's seat if he wanted it, of course, but I'm not sure a couple of terms as a junior senator beats out head of Financial Services. Still, he's a bit more outspoken, a bit more charismatic than Waxman, I could see him easing into the role of the spiritual leader of the progressive left.

You're right about all three, more or less.  Frank isn't going for Kennedy's seat for exactly that reason.

Feingold may never have the power base Kennedy did, but in terms of idealistic purity, I doubt you'll ever find someone better.  He could be considered the soul of liberalism.  I hope someday he's its voice as well.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #532 on: August 29, 2009, 05:27:21 PM »
Unfortunately, a good majority of people are not realists. (But is that really unfortunately? Sometimes if you're fighting for your life, realism isn't a great thing). Perhaps they would have agreed on the option of taking pills instead of expensive surgery. If I was at a 50/50 chance, I'd take chemo. But 75+ would get me thinking. Either way, Kennedy DID get "diagnosed" extremely late I heard, only about a year ago. I wonder what goes on in someone's head when they're diagnosed and the masses have spread significantly and developed. I also wonder what's going on in the doctor's head as they're supposed to ensure the comfortability of their patients, but they only recognize that the treatments will tire them physically and ultimately their comfortability will incrementally diminish.

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #533 on: August 29, 2009, 07:44:02 PM »
In addition, it's not just "probability of living" vs "comfort".  Surgery itself can kill you (especially if you're older).  From all I've read doctors should basically never perform surgery on anyone over the age of 80.

I dunno, I feel like there's this misconception of "surgery is performed by doctors and therefore it will help you get better."  I mean, yes, it can, in certain circumstances...but fundamentally surgery is DRUGGING YOU AND CUTTING YOU OPEN.  These are generally not good things to do to the human body.

(I haven't heard statistics on Chemo, but I imagine it's similarly brutal on the body, if not moreso.  In fact, I'm not sure I've heard of anyone over the age of 30 getting Chemo, so...most likely in the moreso column).

Taishyr

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #534 on: August 29, 2009, 08:15:51 PM »
My mother went through Chemo, as did my friend's mom. Both were greatly brutalized by it. So.

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #535 on: August 29, 2009, 08:39:36 PM »
My mother went through Chemo, as did my friend's mom. Both were greatly brutalized by it. So.

Yeah. I see chemo patients and work and most look like they're one step away from falling into the grave.
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NotMiki

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #536 on: August 30, 2009, 04:46:38 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/30/japan-election-results-op_n_272149.html

A victory for the left in Japan as the liberal Democrats beat the conservative Liberal Democrats.

Apropos of nothing, really, but every once in a while it's worth remembering that terms like liberal and conservative not only shift in meaning but also occasionally completely reverse themselves.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/08/30/kennedy_once_meant_tax_cutter/

Here's an op-ed piece by Jeff Jacoby, resident Cassandra conservative for the liberal Boston Globe.  He asserts that JFK would not recognize today's democrats, but that Ike would recognize today's republicans.  I'm not so sure about that.  The more interesting question, "would today's Democrats and Republicans recognize JFK and Eisenhower respectively as their own?" goes unasked.

Eisenhower, who cut the US's losses in Korea, spent massively on US infrastructure in the interstate highway system, and presided over high taxes, looks a lot like today's Democrats, except for his social conservatism.  JFK, hawkish tax-cutter that he was, looks awfully Republican, minus the social liberalism.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #537 on: August 30, 2009, 05:48:34 PM »
Chiming a little late here, but my mom's mom died of lung cancer and poorly timed chemo at like 50 years old. So yeah, Chemo sucks.


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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #538 on: August 30, 2009, 08:00:22 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/30/japan-election-results-op_n_272149.html

A victory for the left in Japan as the liberal Democrats beat the conservative Liberal Democrats.

Apropos of nothing, really, but every once in a while it's worth remembering that terms like liberal and conservative not only shift in meaning but also occasionally completely reverse themselves.

Yeah, the famous quote about the Holy Roman Empire applies to the LDP as well.  The Liberal Democratic Party was neither liberal, nor democratic, nor a party.  (Not that they were even that bad!  Just...  severe case of "okay this is what Japan stands for now thanks to our new American friends, let's slap it on the nameplate.)

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #539 on: August 30, 2009, 10:11:58 PM »
Slow and late, but Chemo is a slower way of killing yourself than dying by cancer.  Choose your poison, it is either radioactive or a mutated part of your body slowly assimilating the rest of your flesh into itself which is going to destroy you.

Edit - Of course chemo normally is slower than the assimilation.
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superaielman

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #540 on: August 30, 2009, 11:32:21 PM »
Depends on what type of chemo and cancer. There's a huge range there. Some tumors respond only to the nastier types of drugs, yeah.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090830/NEWS05/908300547/1319/Detroit-nearing-financial-ruin--city-s-ex-auditor-says

A delightful story on the smoking ruin of what used to be an major American city.

Quote
To fix the city as a whole, it would require martial law, thousands of troops, labor camps, and sterilization programs for criminals and welfare recipients. That's probably the best program, but it can't be implemented as long as the inmates have control of the asylum.

Comments are a wee bit scary. Can I invoke Godwin's law here?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 11:34:44 PM by superaielman »
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #541 on: August 30, 2009, 11:56:03 PM »
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God, I couldn't get through the first two pages of comments.  Oh my god it hurts so much.

Taishyr

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #542 on: August 31, 2009, 12:47:57 AM »
I'd just sit over here pretending I could be shocked by any of this, but it's kinda hard when you live in the state and observe such comments and "wisdom" firsthand.

And people wonder how I could ever be sour.

Idun

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #543 on: August 31, 2009, 06:05:46 PM »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8204207.stm
More Lorena Bobbits, please. This is old, but I put it here because I thought it somehow loosely links to the rape that was discussed in SL&R.

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #544 on: September 01, 2009, 02:06:47 AM »
This has mostly been the province of IotD, but since the article introduces no new idiocy, it really belongs here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/world/europe/01france.html?hp
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #545 on: September 08, 2009, 06:09:31 AM »
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #546 on: September 08, 2009, 01:27:12 PM »
I read Obama's speech.

I don't think I need to reiterate how much the reasoning behind his opposition and this ideology that people want to espouse just reminds me why I am not faithful in specific communities in America. Everyone's entitled to opinions, but I very much lean to being disinterested in those opinions when people refuse to even read the SOURCE material to see what the discussion is actually about. Sure, some people are saying it's because there's many conservative racists out there and it's because they're racist, but I think racism is just another facet to possible reasoning as to why they were so adamantly "Don't teach my child social/commun/ism. I could also use this argument many minorities are using where there were previous examples of presidents doing the same thing (one that actually had political party agenda), but I think that too is ignoring the possibility of people simply being disinterested in the gov't being part of the private family. Unfortunately these are all faulty as I believe having read the speech, it does nothing but encourages the student to be a good citizen, continue educational aspirations, etc.

This also makes me question people's parenting capabilities, but I do that all the time. Everyone's not raised the same, I understand that. But operating on the premise of the majority parents sitting with their children and watching the speech as another option makes me laugh so hard that I can't even begin to figure out what's more hilarious.

Putting "education" into the private family sphere is essentially stupid, and I can't remember when the situation of education in the country has ever been 'private'.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 01:28:55 PM by Idun »

superaielman

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #547 on: September 08, 2009, 01:36:48 PM »
When Newt Gingrich is calling right wingers out for being partisan hacks (Rightly), it's truly a surreal day.

I'm not a fan of Obama at all and I think his current major policy push is an abject, overpriced failure in spite of having no insurance. I'm still stuck in the position of defending him a hell of a lot of the time just from how baseless a lot of the attacks are against him. This isn't new, as I did the same thing for Bush and Clinton before him, but it's still annoying.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 02:12:25 PM by superaielman »
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #548 on: September 08, 2009, 02:09:00 PM »
When Newt Gingrich is calling right winters out for being partisan hacks (Rightly), it's truly a surreal day.

Ugh.  I despise Newt Gingrich, and having to admit he is a voice of reason on anything is extremely painful to me.
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superaielman

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #549 on: September 08, 2009, 02:17:08 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/laura.bush/index.html

Laura Bush, noted socialist and left winger, also spoke up to defend the president. The story is also a decently interesting read on it's own merits.
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