Author Topic: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.  (Read 74510 times)

metroid composite

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #625 on: October 23, 2009, 03:36:44 PM »
Well...sure, if they were a private company, it would probably be in their best interest to cave to public pressure.  Unless they thrived off of controversy like Fo...wait, no, Fox News would not cover the American equivalent of this story either--they excluded Ron Paul from the Republican candidate debate, the rumors being that he was excluded because he was constantly critical of how the Republican party was being run.

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #626 on: October 23, 2009, 04:04:41 PM »
Stupid retards are free to say stupid retard things on television

Yes, but only because it's the BBC.  Remember, freedom of speech is different from freedom to actually have an audience for your claptrap.  I think it's right for legitimate political parties to get their say, the voters lend them that legitimacy, no matter how repugnant their views are, but it's always good to remember there's a world of difference between the government legally preventing you from expressing your views and a TV station refusing to waste airtime on you (doesn't apply in this case because it's the BBC, but yeah).

That is up to the television station, sure, but the retard can still say what he wants while they are filming it and so on.  If someone is stupid enough to go on a show that has an agenda counter to what they want, then that is their problem.  Whatever retarded shit they said is there for or against them. 

The retard can say what they want, the television can show what they want.  Both  come down to that and public pressure and government intervention on non- graphically violent, non-sexual, drug free segments just because someone says something people don't want to hear can go get fucked.
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #627 on: October 23, 2009, 04:21:13 PM »
I don't suppose you have some links for that study met?  Having a problem-seeking mind, my immediate thought was "well, a gay person can pretend to be straight, a black person can't really pretend to be white very well" and was wondering if it had any notes to that effect.
Umm, well here's the first google search I got on the study; I'm pretty sure this is one of many reports of the study, though--pretty sure I've seen one with more numbers.

http://www.cuny.edu/news/newsreleases_p=249.html
That is so counter-intuitive to everything I've heard in the last several years and things I have OBSERVED and yeah. What I have observed is black people getting advantages in every regard in university, I had my black friend who gloated about having it easy because he was black. And even in Oklahoma, a traditionally racist state (though not as racist as the deep south) people who are equally qualified don't have problems getting jobs. Lawton has a large black (and a decent Hispanic) population and the ones who want to do fine do fine.  

I realize that this isn't NYC, but I get really sick and tired of hearing this crap that I have seen nothing but proven false in my personal experiences.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #628 on: October 23, 2009, 04:41:04 PM »
I think the issue there is quite likely in the scope of personal experience.  It is the same thing you get in the comparison of female wages to male wages.  In the usually fairly intelletcual middle/Upper middle class sector you don't really see a trend of women being payed less than men.  You get into the lower parts of the job markets (incidentally where the majority of jobs are and where the majority of women are still currently employed) and the pay scale and hiring practices slips a great deal.

Worked much Retail Ciato?  How many young black male sales staff do you know?  How easy was it for THEM to get their job?
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #629 on: October 23, 2009, 08:41:51 PM »
The educational sphere operates in a different way from your typical low-level blue or white collar jobs.

Compare this:
http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2007/01/law-prof-diversity-hiring-and-tenure.html

To this:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-10/uocp-smh101509.php

Kinda apples and oranges, but worth looking at anyway.

Fox News would not cover the American equivalent of this story either--they excluded Ron Paul from the Republican candidate debate, the rumors being that he was excluded because he was constantly critical of how the Republican party was being run.

Yeah, but the better equivalent of these bozos isn't Ron Paul, it's Fred Phelps, and plenty of TV channels have wasted time on him, alas.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 08:53:11 PM by NotMiki »
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #630 on: October 23, 2009, 09:33:14 PM »
I worked in retail and there about the same number of black males as white males. One of my best friends at the store was this hilarious black guy friend, and a large part of the men who worked as stockers were also black. (A lot of the black population in my city was from the military, and some of the more ambitious military guys would work in the military in the day and work as stockers at night.) I have spent a rather lot of time in retail stores since my mom has worked at one for years, and I do take interest in these kind of things.

The large majority of people in retail are women though, this much is true.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #631 on: October 24, 2009, 12:52:58 AM »
Fair enoughs then.  I know my data on women's employment rates is accurate through to mid 2000's and to my understanding nothing much as changed there.  Haven't covered minorities so much since this is mostly coming from Feminism background again and less so broader sociology.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #632 on: October 25, 2009, 02:23:44 PM »
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910230019

Friggin' hilarious. Rush Limbaugh stumbles upon a satirical post containing a supposed thesis written by Obama, thinks it's real, and goes to quote and rave about it... then realizes halfway through it's a hoax, and defends himself saying the thesis was basically true anyway.

I mean really, who cares about facts.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #633 on: October 25, 2009, 06:24:51 PM »
I remember during the election a blogger fell for a hoax about Hillary Clinton and, defending his position after the fact, said that the hoax was as damning as if it was true because, and I'm paraphrasing, "The fact that I could be convinced it was true says all you need to know about Hillary Clinton."
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superaielman

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #634 on: October 27, 2009, 12:46:35 AM »
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33479833/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity?GT1=43001

Good read. I'm at least sort of sympathetic to his first point about not speaking spanish to him since he can't understand it, but the second is  stupid. Dude, you are running a hotel in a hispanic dominated town and you are shocked that people get offended when you make them change their names? Really.

On a personal level he sounds like someone I'd hate to work for myself.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #635 on: October 27, 2009, 01:00:56 AM »
Yeah, I know the flagrant racism should offend me the most out of this, especially the names thing, but my gut reaction was the same: worst boss ever.  Seriously, if you're worried about employees badmouthing you in Spanish in your presence, you can guarantee that whatever they don't now say in front of you they'll say behind your back.  Might want to be the kind of boss employees don't instinctively hate, y'know.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #636 on: October 27, 2009, 01:16:26 AM »
aaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Don't think of it as a novel. Think of it as a chance to retroactively win every argument you have ever walked away from.

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #637 on: October 27, 2009, 02:03:01 AM »
In other news,

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/26/breaking-reid-backs-health-care-public-option/

There's a public option in the bill after all! Who knew?

In other news, Doctors have discovered an odd spine-shaped growth in Harry Reid's back area. More on this as it develops.
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metroid composite

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #638 on: October 27, 2009, 06:44:00 AM »
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33479833/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity?GT1=43001

Good read. I'm at least sort of sympathetic to his first point about not speaking spanish to him since he can't understand it, but the second is  stupid. Dude, you are running a hotel in a hispanic dominated town and you are shocked that people get offended when you make them change their names? Really.

On a personal level he sounds like someone I'd hate to work for myself.
I can see the business logic behind it.  Forcing someone to use a name they're not comfortable with doesn't strike me as that different from forcing someone to wear a uniform that they feel demeans them.  Telling people to use a different name with customers is also hardly unheard of for a workplace--on the most obvious level, there are people with jobs like "acting as Peter Pan" where they'd introduce themselves as Peter Pan.  On a more subtle level, I know a lot of Chinese immigrants who have names I flat-out can't pronounce, and so adopt an English name--if such an immigrant had not adopted an English name by the time they got a job working directly with customers, it wouldn't surprise me if the management leaned on them to adopt an English name for work.

All that being said...spanish names are NOT hard.  "Mahrteen" = totally pronounceable in English.  "Marcos" = totally pronounceable in English.  That's what makes this story kinda wtf.

superaielman

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #639 on: October 27, 2009, 04:41:38 PM »
In other news,

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/26/breaking-reid-backs-health-care-public-option/

There's a public option in the bill after all! Who knew?

In other news, Doctors have discovered an odd spine-shaped growth in Harry Reid's back area. More on this as it develops.

Reid's under tremendous pressure from his own party to include the public option. This is less of a spine and more bowing to the reality that he is going to have serious issues running in 2010 if the left assumes he fucks up the health care bill.

Quote
On a more subtle level, I know a lot of Chinese immigrants who have names I flat-out can't pronounce, and so adopt an English name--if such an immigrant had not adopted an English name by the time they got a job working directly with customers, it wouldn't surprise me if the management leaned on them to adopt an English name for work.

There's an ocean of difference between someone willingly adopting a nickname and being told by management to do so.  I don't know the legality of the issue (Miki? ID?), the intense stupidity of someone serving a primarily Hispanic community and being forced to take more typical english nicknames is *Headdesk*.

I've had bosses like that, who try to 'change' a culture and crack the whip. It isn't being a hardass, it is the complete lack of respect he is showing his employees in doing so. It isn't racism on his part, just ignorance and just not knowing how to relate to a group of people.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 04:47:22 PM by superaielman »
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metroid composite

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #640 on: October 28, 2009, 05:02:04 AM »
I've had bosses like that, who try to 'change' a culture and crack the whip. It isn't being a hardass, it is the complete lack of respect he is showing his employees in doing so. It isn't racism on his part, just ignorance and just not knowing how to relate to a group of people.
Oh, messing with culture is usually dumb, but I doubt it's illegal.

That said, certainly cracking the whip on corporate culture can be good in the right situation.  For instance, I've known of videogame studios where there was beer in the fridge 24/7 and people smoked pot while working.  On another angle of the spectrum, I've known of videogame studios that were either very sexist or just not comfortable environments for women (stuff like posters of pornography on walls, people making crude jokes routinely).  In cases like these, cracking down on corporate culture seems reasonable.

On a more national culture level, If you had a worker from Spain, I'm assuming if they got work for an American employer, the employer wouldn't be required to give them time off in the afternoon for a Siesta.  And if, for instance, a hotel was staffed with quite a few immigrants from Spain who had taken to having a Siesta, then yes, I would say cracking down on this culture would be perfectly appropriate.

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #641 on: October 28, 2009, 05:31:29 AM »
Well sure bosses have the right to change business culture.  That's not the issue here, really.  It's what he's changing it TO that's the problem.  Requiring your workers to use Anglicized names and speak English around you to foster a better business culture is not appropriate.  I mean, say a woman has a male-sounding name and works as a receptionist, and the boss forces her to change it to "something more feminine."  That's the same thing, and it's not acceptible.  Am I missing something here?  Trying to conflate this situation with workers taking a siesta or whatever...that's not at all what's going on here.  I mean, whether you're doing work when you're working is performance-related.  Whether you speak your native language in the boss' presence isn't.

I don't know whether the nickname thing is illegal by itself.  I kinda doubt it, because hotels are a service industry and they probably have leeway regarding requiring behavior and appearance in front of the guests.  But the questionable rules weren't only about conduct in front of the guests but the boss also, and that puts a different color on it.  If the employees who were fired can make a connection between the name-changing and Spanish-speaking around their boss and their firings, I think they'll win their case.

EDIT:

passive-agressive politics in California?  Oh Ahnold, I thought you would be more direct.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/schwarzenegger-sends-lawm_n_336319.html
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 07:09:31 AM by NotMiki »
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metroid composite

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #642 on: October 28, 2009, 08:48:10 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-cMpKfDPHg
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann   (Looooong but excellent article)

An interesting first: a man given the death penalty is now considered innocent.  This has interesting legal implications--one of the defences that the Supreme Court has used in the defence of the death penalty is that there has yet to be an example of a factually innocent man actually killed.  This case will very likely require...at least new arguments, should the Supreme Court continue to support the death penalty.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 09:20:46 PM by metroid composite »

superaielman

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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #643 on: October 28, 2009, 09:50:32 PM »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #644 on: October 29, 2009, 06:25:40 AM »
In other news, Doctors have discovered an odd spine-shaped growth in Harry Reid's back area. More on this as it develops.

Reid's under tremendous pressure from his own party to include the public option. This is less of a spine and more bowing to the reality that he is going to have serious issues running in 2010 if the left assumes he fucks up the health care bill.


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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #645 on: October 29, 2009, 09:03:07 AM »
And the words are...?  That even when political cartoons have a point they still suck?
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #646 on: October 29, 2009, 06:22:12 PM »
If you think that is anywhere close to the worst of political comics I envy you.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #647 on: October 29, 2009, 07:30:00 PM »
Just 'cause it's not the worst doesn't make it any less crappy.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #648 on: October 29, 2009, 10:49:51 PM »
Philistines.
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Re: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele.
« Reply #649 on: November 01, 2009, 09:26:10 PM »
I found it amusing.
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