Author Topic: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele. (Read 74497 times)

Pyro · « **Reply #650 on:** November 05, 2009, 11:36:23 PM »

So Republicans make gains in governorships, but lose a house seat.

Commence massive overreaction by everyone.

Luther Lansfeld · « **Reply #651 on:** November 05, 2009, 11:44:57 PM »

Governor politics are pretty irrelevant to the politics of the rest of the country. Oklahoma has had a 'Democrat' governor for years and is the most conservative state in the union.

Shale · « **Reply #652 on:** November 06, 2009, 12:00:14 AM »

Also, Mitt Romney.

superaielman · « **Reply #653 on:** November 06, 2009, 01:17:40 AM »

Yeah, I'll agree there. President is less popular a year into his term than when he is elected, news at 9.

Edit: Yeah, the overreactions are pretty comical. You can always count on certain writers to needto be hosed down after anything of note happens.

NotMiki · « **Reply #654 on:** November 06, 2009, 01:23:41 AM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/opinion/05collins.html?ref=opinion

Best take on the election results I've seen.

Yeah, I was kinda wondering why any of the governor races were being billed as referendums on national politics. I mean, 2008 was a good year for Republican governors too, after all, and what difference did that make? If Obama can't put a Democrat in Montpelier in 2008, what predictive value does a gubernatorial race have nationally?

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #655 on:** November 06, 2009, 01:31:27 AM »

At some point, I actually scratched my head at the article. I had forgotten political writers could actually be sarcastic.

Cotigo · « **Reply #656 on:** November 08, 2009, 03:03:42 AM »

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/07/gop-gone-wild/

Tom Price: OBJECTION!

John Dingell: Yes?

Tom Price: I was trying to think of something while objecting. ... I did not.

-----

MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES SHOULD NOT BE CONDUCTING THEMSELVES LIKE PHOENIX WRIGHT CHARACTERS.

Hell, they weren't even doing it to Alan Grayson.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #657 on:** November 08, 2009, 03:16:33 AM »

Phoenix Wright: More accurate than you thought.

That said uh wow. You'd think there'd be procedures for, y'know, kicking such people in the nuts.

NotMiki · « **Reply #658 on:** November 08, 2009, 06:13:55 AM »

Yep, the house of representatives is a filthy, filthy place. Insert obligatory Mark Foley joke here.

EDIT:

Wait! No inserting! Bad representative!

AAA · « **Reply #659 on:** November 09, 2009, 06:07:37 PM »

http://kimag.es/share/16199217.jpg

Interesting graphic of the projected federal budget. Not hotlinking it because it's fucking huge.

Shale · « **Reply #660 on:** November 09, 2009, 06:10:25 PM »

Quote from: Makkotah on November 08, 2009, 03:03:42 AM

MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES SHOULD NOT BE CONDUCTING THEMSELVES LIKE PHOENIX WRIGHT CHARACTERS.

Fuck that, everyone should conduct themselves like PW characters.

Cotigo · « **Reply #661 on:** November 10, 2009, 12:59:22 AM »

* Makkotah throws a cup of coffee in Shale's face.

superaielman · « **Reply #662 on:** November 12, 2009, 04:52:28 AM »

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/11/florida.burned.boy/index.html

Quote

The next day, Bent and four other teens found Brewer, authorities say, and surrounded him. Police say witnesses have told them that they called him a snitch before pouring alcohol on him and using a lighter to set him on fire.

A: The kid who was set on fire has balls of motherfucking steel and saved his life with a quick reaction.Not really the point. His friends... REALLY. Setting someone on fucking FIRE for 'snitching'? Enjoy spending the rest of your lives in prison, you fucking morons.

I hope they nail every person involved with an adult charge regardless of age. The question of how y oung is too young for adult charges is a good one, but augh. This is just sadistic.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #663 on:** November 12, 2009, 11:32:52 AM »

Holy shit. I rarely post in this topic, because I know little of American politics, but this case hits pretty hard for me, and is similar enough to the British system for me to comment.
I never understand how crimes as extreme as those can be mostly written off on the grounds of being too young. There is no such law over here that allows children/teenagers to be charged as adults, and I can never understand why. My sister and I actually wanted to start a campaign in favour of such a law, and compiled a list of about 250 murders committed by people aged 19 and below.
Seriously, all of those deserve to be charged as adults, without a doubt. They're clearly not learning from the previous charges against them, since their response to being arrested for theft is... to set someone on fire. :/

'Course, it's probably interesting to look at the past here, albeit slightly impossible. I can't help wondering what exactly happened to these kids to make them think that burning someone is perfectly acceptable. ¬_¬

As for "how young is too young for an adult charge," I think there is no such thing as 'too young' and that it all comes down to awareness and the extent of the crime. If someone is fully aware of what they've done, regardless of age, I think it should at least be considered as an adult crime, even if the sentence doesn't follow through with that.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #664 on:** November 12, 2009, 03:31:04 PM »

Sounds like they're hitting the kids who led the assault with adult charges anyway, so yeah. I do think there's a "too young" for an adult charge but 15-16 isn't it.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #665 on:** November 12, 2009, 06:59:27 PM »

See, this is where my belief that things shouldn't be based on age comes into play.
There's a medical condition where people mature rapidly, or have a mental age that far exceeds their physical age. I remember hearing about this example -years- ago, where a 12-y/o girl wanted to get married, but knew she couldn't due to laws regarding her physical age.
Cases like this, as well as the more prevalent reversal of this (where someone has a mental age much lower than their physical age), are the reason I think things should be based on maturity/mental age. Tests could easily be carried out during school/college years, or upon request. Whenever something requires an age, the person would carry out the test in advance in much the same way people have to apply for a passport in advance when they intend to travel.

I wouldn't say there's a -physical- 'too young' for adult charges. Mentally, sure, but that's it. And it should definitely be allowed to work in reverse - if a kid knows what they're doing is a serious crime, they should be punished for it accordingly. Sure, give 'em the lowest adult sentence, but still give them the damn sentence.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #666 on:** November 12, 2009, 07:16:28 PM »

I always disliked the one-sided nature of 'tried as an adult' stuff. To my mind, if someone's mature enough to be considered an adult, they're mature enough to be considered as an adult.
Which isn't to say I think 14 year olds should be out there voting, joining the military, what have you. And for cases like this, well, I don't even know how the juevenile system works but I'd be unsurprised if it's a bad joke. So... compromise. If a kid can't really appreciate the full consequences of their actions (and that's generally why we hold off age of majority so long after the physical markers of adulthood), try them with that in mind. That's generally manslaughter territory if I'm not mistaken?

Cotigo · « **Reply #667 on:** November 12, 2009, 07:59:50 PM »

Quote from: Yoshiken on November 12, 2009, 06:59:27 PM

I wouldn't say there's a -physical- 'too young' for adult charges. Mentally, sure, but that's it. And it should definitely be allowed to work in reverse - if a kid knows what they're doing is a serious crime, they should be punished for it accordingly. Sure, give 'em the lowest adult sentence, but still give them the damn sentence.

There damn well is a clear physical too young line. Where the fuck do you think the mental maturity comes from? Sure, sometimes the brain does develop more or less quickly than the body, but the mind is still part of the freakin' body. And, typically, they develop at the same rate.

This is not even getting into how insanely difficult mapping out guidelines for "mental maturity" would be. I agree that the system in place is stupid, but who are you really going to trust with the authority to say, "Okay, they're mature enough," or, "Okay, they're not mature enough"? It's the same damn problem I have with the death penalty. There are some people who I think are rational and qualified to make those judgments, but for fuck's sakes they're not even the same people YOU would probably think are rational and qualified. The whole thing's too damn subjective to not reduce it to pure, arbitrary agreements. Taking away the age qualifier from this sort of judgment just means that another qualifier gets picked out of the ether, one that may be in some ways worse than the current system.

It is a system that needs to be reformed but saying "DON'T USE AGE USE MATURITY" is shortsighted as hell.

Grefter · « **Reply #668 on:** November 12, 2009, 10:11:32 PM »

The age cut offs may seem arbitrary but I can guarantee you that for most of them are well backed by Developmental Psychology, you should have internalised the existence and functions of laws in high school quite easilly. Around 13 - 15 is the average age for that from memory, to avoid the vast majority of outliers you push it out a few years, bam there is your 18+ Laws (This is not to say you can read and understand why specific laws exist, but you know that there is a law and it is there for a reason so that society can function. It is the point where laws and rules are understood to be there for something other than just to stop you from doing things you want). Not everyone is going to meet those averages or even the upper ceiling for outliers society has placed, but expecting society in general to meet those averages or exceed those averages even is expecting more than is reasonable (There is laws in place for how to deal with the underdevelopped as well, if someone doesn't understand that stabbing someone because they stole your pen at the age of 21 there is something wrong with them).

If a 12 year old wants to be married but cannot and sees that as an issue is not fully internalised this process anyway because they should sure as fuck know that there is a reason 12 year olds are not allowed to marry anymore.

The around 18 being adult enough for most things and the cases where someone is likely to be tried as an adult while technically as a minor far more frequently are for crimes that anyone over the age of 13 should know that they are wrong tend to be pretty in the right. Like setting someone on fire deliberately, how fucking old do you have to be to work that out? Now less Aggravated Assault charges and more Manslaughter charges though? There is just some cases out there with high stakes in them where a minor is just clearly NOT aware at the time of the things they may have caused but they sure as shit should not be charged with criminal negligence or something.

Edit - This is to say, the laws tend to be a bit wonky when you do have charge a minor as an adult as an option but arguing to not even have something like that in place and charge high school kids as full adults? I don't see any reasonable validity to this argument. Charging a minor as an adult is the EXCEPTION not the norm. Minors do not have full rights of an adult for good reason, society also understands that these reasons for not giving them the same full rights as an adult are the same reasons they treat them different under law.

Having a bigger understandings of the ramifications of criminal charges and the effect it has on you might play a part here. There is also fairly strong ramifications just being a suspect in some cases, which is why I like Australian law preventing the names of minors involved in criminal cases being mentioned in the media. Yes yes I am actually glad we have no Free Speech for once.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #669 on:** November 12, 2009, 10:17:06 PM »

In this case in particular I could see the immature 13-year olds being pushed along into it by the pressure of their 15-16 year old friends. I know nothing about the specifics of the case beyond what's in the article, of course, but yeah, trying them as juveniles/going easier on them than adults/whatever is very possibly warranted.

Hunter Sopko · « **Reply #670 on:** November 13, 2009, 12:14:04 AM »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/11/AR2009111116943.html?hpid=topnews

Way to go, Catholic Church...

superaielman · « **Reply #671 on:** November 13, 2009, 12:40:15 AM »

That is ugly. I have little sympathy for the church here, but not much. They are completely in the wrong; come back and complain when they force you to perform actual same sex marriage ceremonies. Your right to religious freedom doesn't give you the right to deny others that right, or the right to benefits.

Taishyr · « **Reply #672 on:** November 13, 2009, 02:24:32 AM »

I have zero sympathy, for my part. Christians who can honestly refuse to help others because they don't agree with their views garner no respect or sympathy. Sorry, but I really hope they rethink this one.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #673 on:** November 13, 2009, 03:02:57 AM »

Christians utterly fail at being Christians. News at 11.

Taishyr · « **Reply #674 on:** November 13, 2009, 03:20:05 AM »

yeah yeah I know but occasionally I like to -pretend- I still have hope for this miserable species.

News:

Author Topic: Politics 09: Fire Reid and Steele. (Read 74497 times)

Taishyr

Taishyr