Author Topic: Season 49 Rankings - Making the final cut (Read 8830 times)

Dark Holy Elf · « **on:** February 13, 2009, 05:26:14 AM »

Alright, here's the final barrier to what gets into the RPGDL. There's three questions...

1. Have you played this game?

2. Rank it?

3. Why or why not?

Some good reasons not to rank a game...

A. Not enough voters at the RPGDL.
B. Too hard to compare them to other RPG characters (assuming you've seen them that is).
C. Not interesting enough (i.e. boring in a duel and not much to write about them)
D. Other (please specify)

2/3 support (66.66...%) is needed for a game to be ranked. Each character in the game also needs 66%- IE if FE9 is ranked with 95% of the voters but only 15% support ranking Ashnard and the rest no/abstain on him, he won't be ranked.

The games this time:

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
Mega Man X: Command Mission

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2009, 05:30:15 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. Yes. It is awesome.
2. Abstain.
3. FE9 Naesala's kinda iffy, and at this point, six seasons removed from FE9's original ranking, I'd be just as happy to wait for FE10 where he has a clearly more legal form. Don't feel strongly enough about this to oppose him, though.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. Yes. Less awesome than the above but still awesome.
2. Yep.
3. Seems like a solid enough game on all fronts. Ohnoes external.

Rank all PCs, Tony, Renee, and Major Lategame Boss.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. Yes. More awesomeness.
2. Yes.
3. 15 writers = rank unless the game has serious issues otherwise. It doesn't, even if it's not exactly impressing on other fronts besides rather high dueller interest. Feels like the type of game that works in the DL.

Rank all PCs, Epsilon, and the final boss. (More bosses are possible but I doubt the game is strong enough to support them. Damned lack of HIPPOPRESSOR IN MY DL.)

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #2 on:** February 13, 2009, 05:33:33 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. Yes
2. Yes

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. Yes. Less awesome than the above but still awesome.
2. Yep.

Rank all PCs, Tony, Renee, and Major Lategame Boss.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. Yes. More awesomeness.
2. Yes.

Rank all PCs, Epsilon, and the final boss.

90% of this post is post-elven content.

Jo'ou Ranbu · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2009, 05:34:19 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)

1. No.

2. Sure.

3. I... honestly think it's inoffensive. He's a fairly strong dueller from a game that is an okay, if not great DL game, and eh. I guess.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. I think the internal just works here (something that's approaching WA4-level at a point where internal matters more? This is good). Plus, it's a quirky, rather interesting cast with notable duelling strategies and writing flavor.

People to rank: PC cast, Major Lategame Boss who will be inevitably spoiled on the next topic, Tony, Renee. That covers it up.

Mega Man X: Command Mission

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. The internal isn't as strong as MK, I think? But... it at least has that interest, and I dunno, even if the game has struggled on NR for votes... I don't really weigh much over it by now. It's a rank mostly for internal interest, and it showed it can work in that regard, methinks. Worst comes to worst, it can be booted later. Same applies to MK, really.

Rank: PC cast, Epsilon, whatever the hell the last boss is >_>. Abstain on everything else.

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2009, 05:35:15 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
Yes
Yes

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
Yes
Yes (All PCs, Isolde, abstain on tony and renee)

Mega Man X: Command Mission
Yes
No
Same old shit as Legaia 2, I don't like ranking games only DLers give a damn about. Only this is even worse because I personally don't like the game.

superaielman · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2009, 05:38:28 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)

No
Yes

I have a fairly good idea of the issues here (Thanks Ciato). I don't think the boss issue is going to matter persay, and he definitely is someone I hear about fairly often as a nonplayer. I'm not worried about the votesplit/form legality in that case, and I sure am not worried about him drawing worse than the rest of the cast.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis

Yes, partly
Yes

Rank: PC's, abstain on the bosses. No to the final, it sounds like.

Mega Man X: Command Mission

Yes
Yes to PC's. No to bosses besides Redips.

I have some serious reservations about this game in spite of the internal and the general interest it draws as a duelling game. I'm not going to cry if it gets ranked, but it definitely does not deserve a free pass to the final ranking stage. Will support PC's though.

VySaika · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2009, 06:13:52 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. Yes.
2. Yes
3. Major enough player that he deserves in.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Nothing to add here.

Rank all PCs, Tony, Renee, and Major Lategame Boss.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. I'm...really gonna have to agree with the Elf on this one from start to finish. Interesting duellers, good internal...and not much else, but that's enough to rank it.

Rank all PCs, Epsilon, and the final boss.

Lance · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2009, 06:15:14 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. Yes
2. Very yes

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. No
2. Yes
3. Abstain

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. Partially
2. Yes
3. Rank all the PCs. Abstain on everyone else.

Nitori · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2009, 06:19:47 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)

Yes
Yes
OK deserves something awesome~

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis

Yes
Yes
PCs/Tony/Renee/Isolde/ZWEIS MONDE~

Mega Man X: Command Mission

Yes

Yes. The distinction between this and WA5 seems really small, both accomplish the same thing as being a second stringer to MK (There isn't a huge difference between them anyway). This is a better second stringer (and we aren't flooding Heavy/Godlike with FOUR strong, similar bosses) and will likely settle into a quiet niche and everybody wins.

All PCs, abstain on the bosses unless you want me chainnomming Epsilon (Ull #3?) until he goes to Middle or something. With the exception of Hippopressor. Rank Hippopressor.

Meeplelard · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2009, 06:52:10 AM »

Mana Khemia:
1. No
2. Yes.
Reasons? As I said, I never expected it to happen, but the game seems to have actually pulled up enough player ship to merit getting in. So yeah, see no reason against it.

Naesala:
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
Reasons? While I understand where Elfboy's coming from, feel like Naesala's the kind of guy whose popular enough to get around a lot of the usual issues, and strikes me that more people view him as a PC than a Boss anyway. The FE10 Formsplit is a different issue, but not one we haven't dealt with already in, say, Tibarn.

MMXCM:
1. Yes
2. Yes
Reasons? yeah, see Elfboy.

Rank the 6 main PCs, Epsilon and the Final Boss. 6 PCs are obvious, Epsilon is main villain for most of the game, and the final boss has plenty of plot (...I know, MEGA MAN PLOT) to justify it.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:17:43 AM »

FE9 Naesala:

1. Yes, enjoyed it despite perma-death.
2. Yes, I think he's one of the better options from FE9. He's powerful, something that we don't see a lot of from our large-cast games (Miquel, Lenneth, Chris, Tir, Ted, Tibarn, Eirika should cover all of the Godlike duellers from series with 20+ PCs...). He's also a Laguz, which was one of the reasons FE9 was an interesting rank compared to earlier FEs... though he still doesn't transform, somewhat nulling that point.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis

1. No.
2. Yes. Internal looks good, external is decent. I've actually seen it in a store. Duellers look interesting. I was rooting for this last nom session and it's only gotten better since then.
3. PCs, Tony, Renee, Mysterious Final Boss Thing

Megaman X: Command Mission

1. No.
2. No. It's a shaky rank at this point. The internal is good, which means I won't cry if it gets in, but I've never once seen a physical copy of this game and I spend quite a bit of time in game stores. I'm sure it exists somewhere, but I've never heard anything good about it anywhere besides this site. It seems like the external is abyssmal. I'm curious if the game has any appeal for people who don't already love Megaman?
The duellers look interesting enough, though.
3. And in that vein, if it happens, rank X, Zero, Massimo, Cinnamon, Marino, Axl, SPIDER, Epsilon, Final Boss. Big No to any other bosses.

Someone send me a copy of these two games... >.>;;

-Djinn

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:13:20 AM »

Oh boy, I knew everyone being all mysterious about Isolde in this topic would cause problems...

okay. Isolde is the closest thing to a big bad MK has got and she's a lategame, but not final, boss. Think 80% of the way through the game.

The final boss is some random ass lovecraftian monster that I hope no one who's played the game wants to rank.

She's getting ranked anyway, fucking use her name now. No use trying to dodge the spoiler anymore.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:48:58 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. Yes.
2. Yes
3. I guess Cyril needs another reason to be happy in Godlike!

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Rank everything up I guess. Not a big fan of Tony and Renee duelling wise, but most others seem to like them.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. Yes.
2. Yes to PCs, no to any bosses.
3. I'm really unsure of this game outside of the core (Like...never heard of it anywhere else ever). Internal+interest is enough for PCs, but less interest in bosses+slight headaches+really can't imagine external taking this game too well make me think that bosses aren't anywhere good enough. Maybe in the future if the PCs exceed my expectations.

OblivionKnight · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:31:56 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. Yes. It can have its way with me whenever it wants
2. FUCK YES
3. Popular, awesome, good fighter...he's much cooler than Tibarn, and should have been ranked the first time. RANK NAESALA. We don't lose anything from ranking him, only gain sexy leather pants.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. Currently playing.
2. Yes.
3. Building up a lot, strong game, pretty good so far. I WILL FINISH IT BY THIS WEEK'S END. Rank: Vayne, Jessica, Nicole, Flay, Roxi, Anna, Muppy, Pamela, Tony, Renee, Other Random Boss (thank you NEB). From what I'm reading. I'll verify this later, but as of now, this seems right.

Djinn: Random note, but what NEB told me in the past, if you abstain or no a ranking, your ranking suggestions are NOT counted for the next phase. You are assumed to abstain on specific ranks.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. Yes. Badass game.
2. Mmm...well, yes.
3. Interesting game, vote draw...blah. It could be worse. I guess. Poor WA5 though ;_; Rank: X, Zero, Axl, Massimo, Marino, Cinnamon, Epsilon, Redips, Shadow, Scarface, Ferham, Botos. Do NOT rank Spider and Redips as separate characters. Oh, and Hippopressor.

DomaDragoon · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:44:37 PM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. No
2. Abstain

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. No, but I own it.
2. Yes.
3. Think it's ready.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Rank ALL PCs, Jet Jaguar (Wild Jango), Water Beetle (Silver Horn), Flaming Penguin (Mach Jentra), Dr. Octopus (Nautilus), Shadow, Incentas, Tony Montana (Scarface), Not!Sigma (Epsilon), and final. Basically, every boss you fight more than once.

Shale · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2009, 03:04:33 PM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. No.
2. Sure. A single FW from a game that's doing pretty well isn't much of a risk.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. No.
2. Abstain.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. No.
2. Abstain.

Talaysen · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2009, 06:22:11 PM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1) Yes.
2) Abstain.
3) Well, I allow FE10 form, so I'd rather just wait for that, but the votesplit is low enough that I don't care to go against it. So yeah.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Been pushing for this for awhile, and it looks like it paid off!

Rank all eight PCs, Tony, Renee, Nefertiti.

Needed more rankable punis though.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1) Part of it. Will probably get back to it soon!
2) Abstain.
3) Probably ready, but I don't really like Yes'ing things I haven't played. See no reason to go against it though.

For the record, I'd totally be in for Hippopressor ranking hype if it gets ranked!

Andemon · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:39:25 PM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. Yes.
2. Yes.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. Yes.
2. Yes.

PCs+Tony+Renee+Isolde

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Maybe I'm overlooking something, but this seems like a really bad rank. I've seen MS Saga mentioned more often than this...

SageAcrin · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:28:04 PM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala):

Haven't played.

Abstain.

Have no clue of the fitness of this rank in any way. Although subjectively any birdlikes are good.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis:

Have not played.

uh...hm. Yes.

Ehhhh. I'd...say let it get in on the merits of people with more interest in it's duelling cast and such... It's sorta on the borderline, and I don't know how well it fits into the DL. But eh. If there were real problems, I'd probably have heard them from someone by now. I can always garrote people later to regain my honor if needed, anyways.

Mega Man X: Command Mission:

Played it. Beat it. Enjoyed it fairly well.

Yes.

Basically in the same boat as Mana Khemia. M:K has more growth potential, but I don't seriously buy either's going to be good vote draws, ever; They're DL favorites, which is, when they can draw something approaching okay, fine.

(Basically this sort of game in and games like PS3 where two people like them out has been how I've felt the DL should be going lately.)

Unlike Mana Khemia I know it has no real problems with duellers, so I have less trepidation about this. Specific no to any bosses besides the final, though, except for an abstain on Epsilon; it's really not a big enough game in general for more.

Tonfa · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2009, 01:13:43 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. No.
2. Yes.
3. Why not? FE9 is not terrible on the draw and character is well liked.

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. Partial.
2. Abstain.
3. Whatever, don't care about the game at all one way or another.

Mega Man X: Command Mission

1. No.
2. No.
3. Just about nobody outside the DL has most likely even heard about the game existing, and it's not particularly recent.

SnowFire · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2009, 01:58:28 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
Yes, and Yes/But. As mentioned in the other topic, I'd strongly be in favor of ranking him as "Fire Emblem: Radiance" just to be clear. His FE10 form is apparently not THAT different, and I suspect many will vote on that form anyway, so yeah. There's no reason not to explicitly allow the FE10 form now. (Unfortunately, by default I'd assume his boss form to be legal. The DL has a precedent of allowing optional bosses which are killable but you're supposed to not fight - think Brahms before VP2 came out - and Naesala's boss form is beatable. Just really really strong.)

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
No, yes.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
No, and no. Just way too obscure (and I'm in favor of at least ranking FWs from most lesser games!). But... I visit other sites, and this is literally the only place I've seen any mention of the game. I've heard more .hack hype. If the game was ranked, FW Mega Man and FW X would probably be the best options, since at least they're famous.

hinode · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2009, 02:57:50 AM »

Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (FW Naesala)
1. No
2. Abstain

Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis
1. No
2. Yes to anything with significant support in general.

Mega Man X: Command Mission
1. No
2. Yes to the PCs, No to the bosses.

SageAcrin · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2009, 12:42:03 PM »

Can someone tell me what part of Mana Khemia's supposed to be notably better enough than Command Mission to really warrent a full gap in yes/no?

I mean, I can definitely feel Tonfa's trepidation-it cuts more towards Mana Khemia, which almost feels like an internal fad(CM is one too, mind you. CM is just a larger one, so far. Almost Brig level in that, in fact.), but I can feel it. I can definitely see a yes/abstain or no/abstain or whatever, or two nos, or two yeses, etc.

But is there some massive sales gap I'm not aware of? Are people basing this on the PSP port existing(Riviera got a PSP port. It is not popular. It's also not rankable, but. ToE also got one.)? Am I missing something? I'll freely admit that CM has low potential for growth and external interest; I'm just missing where people get that MK has it.

Edit: Huh, MK's the exact same on internal writers. I guess my trepidation is silly on that end at least. The basic question still is there, I can't really see a big difference.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2009, 01:09:26 PM »

Mana Khemia has a PSP port and an upcoming sequel. It apparently sold well enough that the creators feel more of it should be made.

I don't think I've heard anything about another BoF-style MM RPG in the near future. I'm also a little hesitant about ranking a game where the characters are all cameos from a different genre. It means that most fans that it brings in won't be too familiar with RPG mechanics (Anyone who thinks Mana Khemia fans won't be fans of RPGs in general needs a reality check). I also get this impression that unless you are a fan of both Megaman AND RPGs, the game doesn't hold much appeal for you, and somewhat alienates people who are only fans of one or the other (MM fans want more platforming action and RPG-only fans probably can't penetrate the story without information from the other MMX games). And it's not that I think MMXCM's cast are bad duellers, but the flavor feels out-of-place. For the record, I feel this way about Mario RPG, too. It's not something that I feel should hold back a game on its own, but it definitely contributes to my negative vote, in addition to the low draw, and the perceived low availability.

SageAcrin · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2009, 01:59:43 PM »

Quote

Mana Khemia has a PSP port and an upcoming sequel. It apparently sold well enough that the creators feel more of it should be made.

ToE had the PSP port, again.

Sequel hasn't even been confirmed for a port, has it? (Irrelevant, likely immaterial as it will get ported anyways, but.)

It's also loosely tied to a three game series before that, anyways; That it still seems shaky as an idea may be telling to some degree. I don't know if this is helpful.

Sequels haven't really historically been shown to help previous games, unless I've missed something. Shared characters aside, that is. I may be forgetting something, but very few sequels had a sudden impact on the previous games, DL-wise. If you can come up with an example, that'd be nice, though.

Quote

I don't think I've heard anything about another BoF-style MM RPG in the near future.

I dunno. It's made by Capcom, who makes RPGs. Also, if it does get made, it's...more likely to share character than MK2? (I know little about MK2 in general however, but I thought that AI games didn't share characters.)

Quote

I'm also a little hesitant about ranking a game where the characters are all cameos from a different genre. It means that most fans that it brings in won't be too familiar with RPG mechanics (Anyone who thinks Mana Khemia fans won't be fans of RPGs in general needs a reality check).

Super Mario RPG and Pokemon show your fears are fairly unfounded.

Quote

I also get this impression that unless you are a fan of both Megaman AND RPGs, the game doesn't hold much appeal for you, and somewhat alienates people who are only fans of one or the other (MM fans want more platforming action and RPG-only fans probably can't penetrate the story without information from the other MMX games).

As opposed to Tales of Symphonia's ARPG blend? Or, for that matter, Super Mario RPG/Paper Mario's general existance?

I don't think logic like this ends up panning out too awful much in practice. It makes sense in theory, it just doesn't happen in practice.

Quote

And it's not that I think MMXCM's cast are bad duellers, but the flavor feels out-of-place.

Yeah, humanoid mecha with guns and entirely technological-orientation for weaponry are definitely out of place flavor-wise.

C'mon, this argument made some sense for Pokemon, but not here.

Quote

For the record, I feel this way about Mario RPG, too. It's not something that I feel should hold back a game on its own, but it definitely contributes to my negative vote, in addition to the low draw, and the perceived low availability.

I'm not really sure why being in a crossed-over franchise really matters, in and of it's self. Final Fantasy games have a fighting game. Should we boot them once it gets ported? Disgaea has an anime, and it's surely not the only game(Didn't P3?). Most Tales games directly lift comboing ideas and features from fighting games(and don't...do enough with them, but the inspiration is definitely there.).

I mean, I can definitely understand the feeling of style, it's a weird reason but one I respect. But it doesn't...actually apply with MMX, there's nothing thematically clashing with it's style and that of any other RPG. Look at SO3's plot, for instance. Thematically similar in a very real sense. I don't really understand it.

Edit:

Meep pointed out that BoF3 and ToE didn't get US ports(just PAL evidently). Still, there's Yggdra Union and Riviera(Which I've heard one person total play either, and they have a custom firmware PSP so it was free), GBA examples like PS1-3's collection(no impact whatsoever) and Shining Force(An actual remake; Shining Force is, sadly, still up for booting), later FF remakes had...almost no perceptible voting impact that I can recall(Thinking GBA and especially PSP...okay actually I want to say the GBA version helped FF2 due to the remake factors but that's soooooo rarely in even NR.), Lunar Legends had...darn near no impact as far as I could tell, etc.

Ports are never bad, but they aren't always a major impact. While, yeah, it could mean MK is better ultimately, it may not matter at all possibly. It's hard to say.

News:

Author Topic: Season 49 Rankings - Making the final cut (Read 8830 times)