Retirement thread, Season 49

[superaielman]

66% have to approve it for retirement for it be removed.


AtL4 Bebedora

BGs Edwin
BGs Imoen
BGs Jaheria
BGs Minsc
BGs Viconia

SF1 Alef
SF1 Anri
SF1 Balbaroy
SF1 Bleu
SF1 Darksol
SF1 Domingo
SF1 Gong
SF1 Gort
SF1 Guntz
SF1 Kane
SF1 Lowe
SF1 Mae
SF1 Mishaela
SF1 Ramladu
SF1 Tao
SF1 Zylo

SF2 Cameela
SF2 Chaz
SF2 Chester
SF2 Elric
SF2 Galam
SF2 Gerhalt
SF2 Geshp
SF2 Jaha
SF2 Kazin
SF2 Kiwi
SF2 Lemon
SF2 Luke
SF2 Mae
SF2 Rohde
SF2 Sarah
SF2 Sheela
SF2 Slade
SF2 Taya
SF2 Zalbard
SF2 Zeon
SF2 Zynk

ToE Chat
ToE Max
ToE Rassius Luine
ToE Shizel
VPs Freya


Short list of games:

AtL4 Bebedora
Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira)
Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt)
Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie)
Tales of Eternia secondary characters
VPs Freya

[superaielman]

AtL4 Bebedora- Retire

Baldur's Gate cast- Retire all. I like it as a DL game, but no. Nothing it's draw or it's inability to gain new fans makes me think the game will work. I seriously wince when it gets in thanks to draw, and I can't be the only one.

Shining Force 1- Retire all but Darksol and Kane. Kane did fairly well for himself the one time he got in, and Darksol sucks but draws well for the game and has no votesplit issues. The rest of the PC's are.. blah. I don't know, the remake really ruined the mains and none of the fighters are worth a damn.  Mishaela's just boring and doesn't generate much interest. Abstain on Domingo.

Shining Force 2- Keep Sarah, Slade, Cameela, Geshp, Zalbard, Chester.  The greater devils do.. okay enough and have history. The PC's by and large I can live without. Keeps enough of a cross section of the game with what I have suggested. A boot on fire to Taya and Galam. Lemon's cool but has some votesplit woes, so I can live without him.

Tales of Eternia secondary characters- Keep Max, retire the rest. Max has fan interest and isn't a headache. Chat is a headache (She didn't go 30+ seasons between appearances for no reason), Ras was hashed over in the last time, Shizel is Shizel.

VPs Freya- Retire.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Atl - Retire

BGs - Retire

SF1 - Definitely RETIRE Alef, Balbaroy, Bleu, Gong, Gort, Guntz, and Zylo. PCs with little plot and/or aren't widely used and/or are even more subject to RNG than normal for worth.

For now, abstain on Anri, Domingo, Lowe, Mae, Tao (more used/notable/popular), and all the bosses.

SF2 - Definitely RETIRE Chaz, Elric, Galam, Gerhalt, Kiwi, LEMON, Luke, May, Rohde, Zeon, and Zynk. Optional/less used/less notable/less early PCs and bosses that nobody cares about.

Abstain on Cameela, Chester, Geshp, Jaha, Kazin, Sarah, Sheela, Slade, Taya, and Zalbard. More notable bosses (with history in some cases), and early/more plot important/more notable PCs. Could certainly be argued on some of those PCs - Sheela, Taya, and Jaha in particular.

Retire Rassius. Abstain on Shizel. Keep the PCs.

Retire Freya.

EDIT: All SFs I abstained on are now Keeps.

[Dark Holy Elf]

While I should probably hammer things out a bit more later, some initial thoughts...

SF1 and SF2 aren't wonderful, but nor do they draw badly enough to be cored utterly. I'd like to keep a modest number ranked for each, optimally (6-12), so that what's left is cared about a bit more and the games compare better to low-drawing smaller-cast games like Legaia 2, SoA, PS1-2, DDS, etc. (with less interest in most cases but that can't be helped)

ToE... can somebody fill me in on why Max and/or Chat being retired specifically is something I should support?

[superaielman]

Chat has massive votesplit (Puny or something not puny) depending on how you hype eternal hammer. Not used much in game. She also joins late and gets EH late.

Max is fine with me. He did respectably against Tidus and has always gotten fan interest. He's as good as the rest of the core cast, which makes for a fine rank.

SF1... Max/Jogurt/Kane/Darksol (Yes I am seriously considering Darksol a good rank. Fail SF)/Domingo? I really can't think of much more to make it work. SF2, I think my group works. Can argue Kazin, but SF2 mages have never done much in the DL proper.

[Talaysen]

Chat has massive votesplit (Puny or something not puny) depending on how you hype eternal hammer. Not used much in game. She also joins late and gets EH late.

Votesplit on how you see one move isn't really a good reason to boot someone.  Onoes different interps.  (Boot FFT/FE bosses!!1)

Getting a move late also isn't really a good reason to boot someone.  (Boot Lenneth!!1  Also like half the PCs in the DL.)  Optional FAQ-bait moves are worse (hi Seraphic Radiance).

Joining late's not a big deal to me (some awesome PCs join late!), though I can see it.  Not being used much is a good reason though.

I'm not really against a Chat booting.  Just saying.

[superaielman]

Chat's problem isn't any of those issues, it's them all combined in one package with ToE level drawing. There's a reason that as soon as her one fan left the DL, she utterly fell off the face of the earth.

[hinode]

Abstain on Bebedora. Part of me wants to keep her on just as a joke, but objectively that's terrible reasoning.

Retire everything Baldur's Gate. The situation has just gotten worse and worse for it since ranking, in terms of both vote draw and writers... unfortunate, but so it goes.

Retire everything Shining Force 1 except Darksol, Kane, and Mae; abstain on them, as I'm open to arguments on them. If there's a good, non-obscure fighter on the list besides Mae I might consider sparing them as well. Tao losing to Rozalin despite near-universal board support is NOT a good sign, whether you chalk it up to remake mage anti-hype or just plain robbery. I have no confidence in Tao/Anri to win against anything but Jogurt or Euram anymore.

Tentative keep for Slade, he's actually somewhat memorable for a Shining Force character. Retire the rest... the bosses are sorta interesting, but I have no confidence in any of them to not tank anymore, aside from Odd Eye who's not up for retirement here anyhow.

Retire Rassius. Edit: Keep Max and Chat. It takes especially good reason to cut off just one or two PCs from a small cast, even a weak draw as far as I'm concerned. Either get rid of every permanent PC but Reid or keep them all, and the former isn't an option here. Abstain on Shizel.

Retire Freya.

[Andemon]

AtL4: Keep.
Writeup potential considered, she's more entertaining than the other two combined. Either boot the game fully or keep all three...

BGs: Retire Edwin and Viconia. Keep the starters.

SF1: Keep Anri, Bleu, Mae, Darksol, Mishaela, Ramladu, Kane and Domingo. Abstain on Zylo. Retire the rest.
I don't know anyone outside of DL who didn't use Bleu: competent flyers are in short supply, especially since the other one can be missed.

SF2: Keep Sarah and Slade. Abstain on the rest.

ToE: I don't remember much about this game. I'm sure that I've played it, but... Abstain.

VPs: Abstain.

[OblivionKnight]

In general, keep all...no, I'll be a bit objective about this.  Blah, fuck it.  FUCK IT IN THE ASS I SAY.

AtL4 Bebedora - Kill - Despite being saved, hasn't...done anything.  The mains are fine...she's a relic of randomness that shouldn't be in.  

BGs Edwin
BGs Imoen
BGs Jaheria
BGs Minsc
BGs Viconia

Keep - At worst, keep just Minsc, the original FW.  I'll be fine with the others going out, but keep Minsc.  He's easy to interpret, and, as always, I am perfectly fine with keeping a single representative in.

SF1 Alef
SF1 Anri
SF1 Balbaroy
SF1 Bleu
SF1 Darksol
SF1 Domingo
SF1 Gong
SF1 Gort
SF1 Guntz
SF1 Kane
SF1 Lowe
SF1 Mae
SF1 Mishaela
SF1 Ramladu
SF1 Tao
SF1 Zylo

Keep - If booting, kick Gong, Gort, and Guntz, the optional people with no plot on the list.  

SF2 Cameela
SF2 Chaz
SF2 Chester
SF2 Elric
SF2 Galam
SF2 Gerhalt
SF2 Geshp
SF2 Jaha
SF2 Kazin
SF2 Kiwi
SF2 Lemon
SF2 Luke
SF2 May
SF2 Rohde
SF2 Sarah
SF2 Sheela
SF2 Slade
SF2 Taya
SF2 Zalbard
SF2 Zeon
SF2 Zynk

Keep - Like above, if booting, kicking the optionals (Zynk, Taya, Sheela ;_;, May ;_;, Kiwi), is fine with me.

ToE Chat
ToE Max
ToE Rassius Luine
ToE Shizel

Keep - However, I am not adverse to kicking Shizel definitely.  Ras...eh...less so inclined, but won't fight it.  Max and Chat should stay - you get plot from both, and it's well-known what they can do.

VPs Freya

Keep - VP2 form is generally fine, if...not great.  Feels really wrong to kick her - she's big in the game.

[superaielman]

DO NOT BOOT JOGURT.  WHY ARE PEOPLE SAYING TO BOOT EVERYONE, INCLUDING HIM?  JOGURT IS FINE

Jogurt and Max aren't on the cut list. Bad OK.

[OblivionKnight]

The point still stands!  Do not boot Jogurt!

EVER

[DomaDragoon]

Bebedora: Abstain
BGs: Keep Minsc. Abstain everyone else.
Shf1: Keep all.
ShF2: Keep all.
ToE: Keep Max, abstain others.
Freya: Keep, but as VP2 only.

[SageAcrin]

Bebedora: Boot.

Baldur's Gate(s): ...sigh. boot. ._.

Shining Force 1: Boot Gort, Zylo. Abstain on the rest. See below.

Shining Force 2: Boot Gerhalt. On skimming the list, these were the only ones from either cast that had a complete and utter blank initial reaction followed by no real duelling details popping up mentally. Might just be me, but hey, if I can't even remember anything about them when I try hard, they don't need to be in I guess. Abstain on the rest, don't care enough beyond the people I still can't really remember existing.

Tales of Eternia: Boot Rassius. Abstain on the rest.

Edit:

Oh, and Shizel. Boot Shizel. I actually forgot about her, I think she's been nothing but trouble as a rank, has had some interesting issues about the first and second forms and plot arguments therein(which usually lead to "Well plotwise the temp version you have for two matches is more ligit.".)...yeah.

Freya: Ooooh, she's up? Boot! ^_^

[Meeplelard]

AtL4 Bebedora: Retire.  She had no business being here; she got kept based on a minor technicality, and the game is abysmal as is; keeping Kharg and Darc alone is shakey, but at least they have the "We're the main characters!" thing.

Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira): Retire .  The game  served its purpose long ago and over stayed its welcome.  It proved more than enough that PC RPGs do not blend in with the DL.

Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt): Boot.  Shining Force tends to inspire apathy; the game going entirely though feels wrong, but there aren't really any big ones besides Jogurt (obvious reasons) and Max (main character, shoe-in for FW.)  Suppose there's a few "odd ball" ones I could support, and maybe Ramladu/Darksol, but interp split...yeah.

Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie): Retire.  See Shf1 for the most part.

Tales of Eternia secondary characters:
Retire Ras.  Scrubby boss and PC form and adds nothing but immense apathy to the DL.
Keep Max.  Actually interesting and fun character, feels like he can stay.
Retire Chat.  Max without any of Max's decent qualities.
Abstain on Shizel.  On one hand, she's a ToE boss which is a bad thing in this case...on the otherhand, she's the games main villain, and has a legal form, so...yeah.

VPs Freya: Keep.  I said it in the other topic, but I have no problems with the VP2 form.

[Yakumo]

Boot Bebedora, Freya, the ToE characters, and the BG characters.  As for the SF characters... well, I haven't played the games so abstain for now and I'll watch arguments.

[Hunter Sopko]

AtL4- Retire Bebedora. Have the PC cast or just Darc and Kharg. Feels wierd with just her.

Abstain on BG

SF1- Retire Alef, Balbaroy, Gong and Gort. Keep the rest. Zylo has a forced plot scene and was a cornerstone of my party (yeah, probably due to RNG luck, but still enough to keep him), Guntz is memorable and easy to get, as far as the borderline people.

Abstain on SF2

ToE- Retire Ras, Keep all others.

Abstain on Freya

[Monkeyfinger]

Keep Bebedora

Boot the whole BG list

Boot the whole ShF1 list except for Kane, keep him

Boot Freya

Abstain on ShF2 and ToE

[Dhyerwolf]

AtL4 Bebedora- Boot

BGs- Boot. Like the game, love the duellers, but if it's a bad fit and getting a lot of support, it's likely it's time to go.

SF1- Keep Domingo (Who has duelling interest and is a cut above in memorability on that front), boot the rest.

SF2- Keep Peter, Sarah, and Slade (Basically the big 3 interest wise who got noted last time), boot the rest.

ToE Chat- Boot. I'm certainly okay with puny fodder that no one is really interesting being booted.
ToE Max- Keep. On the other hand, he's strong, has people more interested in him, and starts with two of his three big moves right off!
ToE Rassius Luine- Boot. Soooo bad.
ToE Shizel- Boot. Final boss headache forms, and has not done well at all.

VPs Freya- Boot. For the people who are saying to just keep her as VP 2, do you really think if VP 1 existed, her VP 2 form would be all that rankable? It's also highly flawed.

[Luther Lansfeld]

AtL4- Boot. The entire cast should be booted, but I will take what I can vote for.

BGs - Boot.

SF1 - Boot Alef, Bleu, Gong, Gort, Guntz, and Zylo. Keep everyone else.

SF2 - Boot Chaz, Elric, Galam, Gerhalt, Kiwi, Luke, Lemon, May, Taya and Zynk. Keep everyone else. Especially Cameela/Zalbard/Zeon.

ToE- Boot. The entire cast should be booted, but I will take what I can vote for again.

Boot Freya. With a hammer. To the face.

[VySaika]

AtL4 Bebedora
Boot

Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira)
Keep: Minsc
Boot: Rest

Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt)
Keep: Domingo
Boot: Rest

Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie)
Keep: Sarah, Slade
Boot: Rest

Tales of Eternia secondary characters
Boot

VPs Freya
Boot

[Lance]

AtL4 Bebedora - Keep

Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira) - Boot

Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt)
Keep: Ramladu, Kane, Darksol, Domingo, Mae, Mishaela, Bleu, and Tao
Abstain: Everyone else

Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie)
Keep: Geshp, Zeon, Cameela, Zalbard, Slade, Sarah, Taya, and May
Abstain: Everyone else

Tales of Eternia secondary characters - Keep

VPs Freya - Keep

[Nitori]

Kill Bebedora~
Don't care about BGs~
aiel's list for the Shining Forces work~

Kill Rassius/Shizel, keep Chat/Max
Kill Freya

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

AtL4 Bebedora - Boot to the face.

Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira) - Boot.

Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt) - Boot. I'd rather keep ShF to a bare minimum in the DL.

Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie) - Boot.

Tales of Eternia secondary characters - Boot Rassius - actually, boot Max and Chat too. Honestly, I wish I could just boot the whole game here, but while the cherry-picking is stupid, I'll take what I can get.

VPs Freya - Abstain. I don't care either way.

[Shale]

AtL4- Boot. The entire cast should be booted, but I will take what I can vote for.

BGs - Boot.

SF1 - Boot Alef, Bleu, Gong, Gort, Guntz, and Zylo. Keep everyone else.

SF2 - Boot Chaz, Elric, Galam, Gerhalt, Kiwi, Luke, May, Taya and Zynk. Keep everyone else. Especially Cameela/Zalbard/Zeon.

ToE- Boot. The entire cast should be booted, but I will take what I can vote for again.

Boot Freya. With a hammer. To the face.

Especially the hammer to the face.