Author Topic: Retirement thread, Season 49 (Read 9883 times)

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:52:47 PM »

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I don't know anyone outside of DL who didn't use Bleu: competent flyers are in short supply, especially since the other one can be missed.

I'll readilly admit to not knowing anyone outside the DL who has played Shining Force, period... but unless my memory has failed me, SF1 had at least four fliers (Amon, Balbaroy, Kokichi, Bleu), so Bleu's not that special. He might be competent levelled up (though given his Light ranking, he can't be anything special), but his starting stats are seriously hideous, which doesn't seem like it encourages his use to me. IIRC he is awesome if you powerlevel a lot, but that's not really the type of character I'd like to have ranked. It makes it sound like half the players will view him as trash because they remember his starting stats, and half are powerlevellers who get a skewed view of his stats and think he's great. Awesome idea.

SF1 unarmed characters (Domingo doesn't count) are a clusterfuck for respect variation in general. I've even seen Adam hype when non-powerlevellers consider him one of the worst PCs of all time. Kill them all.

Also,

Quote

Keep Max and Chat. It takes especially good reason to cut off just one or two PCs from a small cast, even a weak draw as far as I'm concerned. Either get rid of every permanent PC but Reid or keep them all, and the former isn't an option here.

I read this and couldn't help nodding vigourously. I would very possibly support a trim-down-to-Reid or utter booting of the game since its draw suuucks, but cutting one or two off? Eh. Need a better reason for that than what I've been given.

Tonfa · « **Reply #26 on:** February 14, 2009, 01:10:29 AM »

Boot everything up except Shining Forces, which I abstain on.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2009, 03:31:49 AM »

Chat and Max are technically optional PCs. In practice it's a matter of talking to them if they aren't in the party, and they have the same amount of plot and so forth regardless. I have no idea why ToE decided to do it this way <.<

AtL4 Bebedora- Abstain. Whatevs.

BGs- Boot. I sharply remember how long it takes to get writers for it.

SF1- Abstain. Haven't played.

SF2- will be editing in individual rulings as I play the game or until the topic closes, whichever happens first.

SF2 Cameela
SF2 Chaz
SF2 Chester- Keep. Bland but there from the beginning and continually useful despite statistical shortcomings.
SF2 Elric
SF2 Galam
SF2 Gerhalt- Abstain. Very borderline. He's automatic but plotless, very solid but not standout... I dunno. Feels like a good border to me at least, everyone more rankable than Gerhalt can stay!
SF2 Geshp
SF2 Jaha- Keep. Most forgettable of the starters, but still alright.
SF2 Kazin- Keep. Only mage for ages. Really kinda sucks for a while (magic damage is ITD but... otherwise scrubby so far) but still. 'sides, Desoul off some speed. Plenty for Light.
SF2 Kiwi- Boot. Easily missed scrub.
SF2 Lemon
SF2 Luke- Boot. Maaann Luke sucks.
SF2 May- Boot. Optional, plotless, vanilla gameplay worth. Joins before you have a full party so as long as you actually take the five seconds to talk to her you'll use her I guess, but yeah. Not good enough in a low-end draw.
SF2 Rohde- Keep. Plot value is... welll, higher than everyone but Slade and Peter at least!
SF2 Sarah- Keep. Only healer for ages. Promo item seems easy to miss, which hurts, but is clearly legal (two for two unpromoted healers!) so not too bad.
SF2 Sheela
SF2 Slade- Keep. More plot importance than, uh... any other PC anyway >.> I mean, he literally sets off the dominoes of the plot. Plus he's actually good if Magikarp-esque.
SF2 Taya
SF2 Zalbard
SF2 Zeon
SF2 Zynk

ToE- Keep. Except...
ToE Rassius Luine- Boot. ToE just can't support a midgame ARPG boss, as his win/loss record quickly proves.

VPs Freya- Keep. Eh, I didn't find her that bad as VP1, let alone VP2. And 'interp split' is the only thing against her, she's an obvious rank by all other criteria.

Dhyerwolf · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2009, 04:49:29 AM »

Quote from: Cmdr_King on February 14, 2009, 03:31:49 AM

Chat and Max are technically optional PCs. In practice it's a matter of talking to them if they aren't in the party, and they have the same amount of plot and so forth regardless. I have no idea why ToE decided to do it this way <.<

Votes later, to be edited in.

Max is forced for Ruins of Volt at least! Also comes in with his damage move and healing out of the box.

Cmdr_King · « **Reply #29 on:** February 14, 2009, 04:59:08 AM »

Ah, yeah, neglected to mention that part due to being pressed for time.

AndrewRogue · « **Reply #30 on:** February 14, 2009, 08:17:02 AM »

Keep: Minsc

Abstain: Rest

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #31 on:** February 14, 2009, 01:28:00 PM »

AtL4 Bebedora - Boot. I like her, but I can't see a logical reason to keep her.

Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Jaheira) - Boot. Keep Minsc, a single FW is fine.

Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt)
Keep: Ramladu, Darksol, Domingo, Mae, Mishaela, Bleu, and Tao
Boot: Everyone else

Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie)
Keep: Slade, Sarah
Boot: Everyone else

Tales of Eternia secondary characters
Keep: Max
Boot: Everyone else

VPs Freya - Keep, she's just too important to the plot to drop her to me. I'd support just about any of the einherjar who aren't named Arngrim/Mystina/Jelanda/Lucian, but Freya may even have more speaking lines than Lenneth... (Or maybe it just seems that way because she has voiced lines during the einherjar menus... and repeats the same 3 lines endlessly...)

-Djinn

Mad Fnorder · « **Reply #32 on:** February 14, 2009, 02:57:06 PM »

AtL4 Bebedora: Boot
Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira): Boot
Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt): Abstain
Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie): Abstain
Tales of Eternia secondary characters:Abstain
VPs Freya: BOOT AND BE SILENT.

Dunefar · « **Reply #33 on:** February 14, 2009, 04:57:41 PM »

AtL4 Bebedora: Boot.
Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira): Boot.
Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt): Boot.
Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie): Boot.
Tales of Eternia secondary characters: Boot Chat and Ras, keep Max.
VPs Freya: Eeeeeh. Keep as much as it pains me.

NotMiki · « **Reply #34 on:** February 14, 2009, 05:08:58 PM »

AtL4 - Abstain

BGs - Abstain

SF1 - Keep Kane, Domingo, Darksol, Tao, Anri, Zylo, Mae, Mishaela. Boot the rest.

SF2 - Keep Sarah, Zeon, Slade, Kazin, Cameela, Zalbard, Geshp. Boot the rest.

ToE - Abstain

VPs - Freya. Keep. I don't think these interpretation issues are enough to justify a boot. Interpretation gives DL people headaches, but the DL is completely based on creative interpretations, so it's a bit silly to me to boot her. If she has vote totals significantly worse than her cast, I'll buy it, but otherwise, no.

alanna82 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 14, 2009, 05:26:12 PM »

AtL4 Bebedora- boot, sorry Bebe
Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira)- Keep Imoen and Minsc as forgotton warriors, boot the rest.
Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt)- Keep Kane and Darksol, boot the rest
Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie)- Keep Sarah and Slade, boot the rest
Tales of Eternia secondary characters- Boot all
VPs Freya- Eh, I see that form as legal, might as well throw in a keep vote.

Twilkitri · « **Reply #36 on:** February 15, 2009, 01:00:56 AM »

AtL4 Bebedora
Abstain.

Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira)
Abstain.

Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt)
Kill them all.

Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie)
Kill them all.

Tales of Eternia secondary characters
Abstain.

VPs Freya
Keep.

Taishyr · « **Reply #37 on:** February 15, 2009, 01:19:16 AM »

AtL4 - Boot.
BGs - Eh. Boot, I guess.
SF1 - Abstain.
SF2 - Boot Chaz, Elric, Galam, Gerhalt, Luke, May, Taya and Zynk. Abstain on Jaha. Keep everyone else. Especially Cameela/Zalbard/Zeon. <-- quoting Ciato/Shale here mostly. Tossing a keep to Kiwi, but I won't be totally heartbroken to see him go. Just partially.
ToE - Boot Rassius/Shizel. Abstain on Chat/Max.
VPs - Abstain. As funny as she is to write bonus commentaries for, I'll leave it up to everyone else as to if she should stay.

Yakumo · « **Reply #38 on:** February 15, 2009, 01:21:14 AM »

Man,

Quote from: NotMiki on February 14, 2009, 05:08:58 PM

VPs - Freya. Keep. I don't think these interpretation issues are enough to justify a boot. Interpretation gives DL people headaches, but the DL is completely based on creative interpretations, so it's a bit silly to me to boot her. If she has vote totals significantly worse than her cast, I'll buy it, but otherwise, no.

Man, what? We have three forms available for Freya. One is an uber-temp during a tutorial that can't be damaged. One is essentially a superboss. The third one ends her fight before he HP runs out and ends with an all-or-nothing attack where you lose if she kills you and win if she doesn't, you don't even need to hit her again(if I'm recalling correctly). Interp issues are one thing, three different forms I would personally consider totally illegal are totally different.

This isn't directed right at you, Miki, I just quoted you since yours was the first I saw. Somebody give me a solid reason why any of those forms -shouldn't- be illegal?

Pyro · « **Reply #39 on:** February 15, 2009, 01:26:57 AM »

AtL4 Bebedora: Boot. Whatever, though. She's still cooler than Kharg.

BGs: Boot. Pity, but I can't really support it if I can't even find the game.

Time to be arbitrary.
SF1 Alef: Boot
SF1 Anri: Keep
SF1 Balbaroy: Boot
SF1 Bleu: Keep
SF1 Darksol: Keep
SF1 Domingo: Keep
SF1 Gong: Boot
SF1 Gort: Boot
SF1 Guntz: Boot
SF1 Kane: Keep
SF1 Lowe: Boot
SF1 Mae: Boot
SF1 Mishaela: Keep
SF1 Ramladu: Keep
SF1 Tao: Keep
SF1 Zylo: Boot

SF2 Cameela: Keep
SF2 Chaz: Boot
SF2 Chester: Keep
SF2 Elric: Boot
SF2 Galam: Boot
SF2 Gerhalt: Keep
SF2 Geshp: Keep. Seriously, we put him up for booting?
SF2 Jaha: Keep
SF2 Kazin: Keep
SF2 Kiwi: KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP.
SF2 Lemon: Keep
SF2 Luke: Boot
SF2 Mae: Boot
SF2 Rohde: Keep. Tank!
SF2 Sarah: Keep.
SF2 Sheela: Boot
SF2 Slade: Keep. Rodents aren't properly represented.
SF2 Taya: Keep.
SF2 Zalbard: Keep.
SF2 Zeon: Keep. The DL needs more big huge immobile bosses!
SF2 Zynk: Boot.

ToE Chat: Boot. No one cares about her. And I do mean no one.
ToE Max: Keep.
ToE Rassius Luine: Boot.
ToE Shizel: Boot.

VPs Freya: Boot. Freya's VP2 form is legal in the sense she wins if she gets of Ether Strike, but damn does the HP issue, Toughness scaling... screw that from my perspective. It's easier just to get rid of her now. Maybe a future VP game will give her a more legit form and we can rerank her specifically as that.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #40 on:** February 15, 2009, 01:31:30 AM »

Oh yes, everyone. Counting boots is a PAIN IN THE ASS with all the splitting that happens between different characters, so if you make any changes to your post at any time, make a new post informing me what they are, or no promises I'll see them.

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #41 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:21:16 AM »

I don't understand why people want to keep minsc and/or imoen and throw out the rest of BG? All 5 of them were ranked for the same reason: They're important PCs in both BG1 and BG2. Either keep them all or boot them all, don't pussyfoot around like this.

Meeplelard · « **Reply #42 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:22:22 AM »

Quote

Man, what? We have three forms available for Freya. One is an uber-temp during a tutorial that can't be damaged. One is essentially a superboss. The third one ends her fight before he HP runs out and ends with an all-or-nothing attack where you lose if she kills you and win if she doesn't, you don't even need to hit her again(if I'm recalling correctly). Interp issues are one thing, three different forms I would personally consider totally illegal are totally different.

Just to clarify, you *CAN* kill Freya in VP2. Its not especially hard to do in fact (might need some offensive twinking, but won't have to go completely overboard), and its clearly something that was a potentially intended outcome. If you run her HP out like normal, she simply dies like a normal boss, and you continue the game as normal, no strings attached. The alternative way to look at the fight is "Ether Strike is illegal" as beyond that one gimmick, the rest of the fight is legit.

Contrast to C-Ending Freya where its "You can kill her if you know EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING" and considering its a form that only appears if you screw up, and more or less requires you to gain a weapon in Chapter 8 anyway...yeah, its not something I think that was remotely intended.

Doubt this changes your stance on the issue, but thought I'd clarify since you seemed to imply you CANNOT kill VP2 Freya as she "suicides" with Ether Strike instead.

Dark Holy Elf · « **Reply #43 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:49:40 AM »

I don't really see how VP2 Freya is illegal at all (zomg she has a move that causes her to lose if you survive it. Oh no. Ban Gilgamesh because he also auto-loses at a certain HP value after taking certain actions?). That said she is pretty horrible and it's not at all what people will kneejerk her as or generally one of her more memorable forms, so I am all for booting her.

alanna82 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:50:19 AM »

Monkey finger, regarding my Keep Imoen vote

I believe that Baldurs gate deserves a forgotton warrior from the game. I (personally) dont think its drawing is bad enough to just boot the entire thing. (Arc the lad 4 has Kharg staying, Baldurs gate draws the simlarly, Brigandine is staying,) I only picked Imoen since she won three matches and even upgraded! If there is a different PC that would be a better forgotten warrior, then I will change my FW pick.

Monkeyfinger · « **Reply #45 on:** February 15, 2009, 02:54:13 AM »

I just object to this FW idea.

Way I figure it, if you think BG is good enough to deserve an FW, you think the entire ranked cast is good enough to stay, since they're all the same for rankability.

AndrewRogue · « **Reply #46 on:** February 15, 2009, 06:51:39 AM »

Quote from: Cryo on February 15, 2009, 01:26:57 AM

BGs: Boot. Pity, but I can't really support it if I can't even find the game.

http://www.amazon.com/BALDURS-GATE-COMPILATION-DVD-ROM-PC/dp/B000FGA1US/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1234680581&sr=8-2

That was pretty easy >_>

Luther Lansfeld · « **Reply #47 on:** February 15, 2009, 08:01:22 AM »

I changed my Lemon vote to boot. Because this is probably going to be a super-important fact~?

alanna82 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 16, 2009, 07:59:07 PM »

Adding in a keep for Minsc, as he has the most keep votes of BG and I do want to see a forgotton warrior for it in.

SnowFire · « **Reply #49 on:** February 16, 2009, 08:35:47 PM »

AtL4 Bebedora - Boot.
Baldur's Gate cast (Imoen, Edwin, Viconia, Minsc, Jaheira) - Keep Minsc. Abstain on Imoen. Boot the rest.
Shining Force 1 (Entire cast besides Max and Jogurt) - Boot.
Shining Force 2 (Entire cast besides Peter, Odd Eye, Bowie) - Boot.
Tales of Eternia secondary characters - Boot.
VPs Freya - Keep.

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Author Topic: Retirement thread, Season 49 (Read 9883 times)

Taishyr

Pyro