Random Mafia - Be Afraid...Very Afraid

[Luther Lansfeld]

Well Andrew backs up what I was saying, at least! Shame on me for leaving a post in queue while sorting through other quotes~

[EvilTom]

Ciato: I'm not sure what you're talking about when it comes to Alex and Doctors. An NK on Alex might place you under suspicion, because I think he said he was going to target you next (before Smodge was lynched). At least, I'm fairly sure he said that, it could be my imagination.

I'm not discounting any possibilities, which is precisely why I'm considering all of the other possibilities too.

It would not be smart town play to accept everything at face value. I'm just checking out other possibilities to see if they fit or not. I'm not discounting anything. Everything should be considered.

Hmm... well, if roles flip, then we know for sure alex wasn't bulletproof anyway.

[OblivionKnight]

It wasn't mentioned already.  No role flips.  Sorry!

[EvilTom]

Right, that sorts that out!

I'm off to the movies~

[Meeplelard]

I will also say that my flavor response to blocking Ciato and you flatly said that I scared off the attackers, which was different from what I got on misses.

Ah, ok, good to know then!

Also, while Andrew's point kills the one minor counter argument to the "Ciato is clearly town" argument, I did forget that Alex said "Vanilla Townie."  I should probably do my homework on these things <_<;

In any event, yeah, seems pretty clear at this point that we have 3 confirmed townies (me, myself and Andrew), and EvilTom Roleclaimed, though I'm not willing to believe he's completely in the clearing yet, hence why he's different.

[Yakumo]

Dhyer, I'm not going to get in a slap-fest with you over this, it's pretty much up to the others to decide which of us, if either, to believe here.

So, we've basically been cut down to four people if nobody counter-claims Andrew?  And I'm pretty sure everyone's had a chance to post now to do so, so that seems unlikely.

Dhyer I've commented on at length already.

Tom gives me a town feel, he just needs to not go so far overboard when someone rubs him the wrong way. >_>

Tai is a bit harder to figure anything for.  I'll look into him now.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Ciato: I'm not sure what you're talking about when it comes to Alex and Doctors. An NK on Alex might place you under suspicion, because I think he said he was going to target you next (before Smodge was lynched). At least, I'm fairly sure he said that, it could be my imagination.

Um, as has been mentioned about six hundred million times, Alex didn't mention anyone. At all. For three days. He in fact said he had no interest in discussing anything besides smodge. This was Day 2 when I was almost killed. This would not implicate me.

And yes, you're missing my other point. The roles aren't being flipped. That is not the point. The point is -ALEX- said he was vanilla. Roles being flipped to the town =/= roles being told to the person with the role.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Anyway, this isn't important in the slightest. The important thing is finding the remaining scum. Bad logic just bothers me conceptually, really. >_>

[Meeplelard]

Hmm...so far, Dhyer and Tai feel like the main candidates.

Dhyer's been slipping under radar most of the game and didn't really contribute much but was the person who started the Zenny Lynch.  Tai...has suddenly gotten more active, and claims its for real life issues he wasn't.

Yakko's hard to read, Tom Role Claimed, and it made sense but at the same time...dunno, also hard to read.

I...think right now, Dhyer feels worst.  I might as well do this first though:

##Unvote: Taishyr

This doesn't mean I still don't suspect him.  Want some more discussion to decide who finally to vote on.

[OblivionKnight]

1) Tai (0): <Meeple>
2) EvilTom (1): Tai
3) Dhyer (1): Yakumo
4) Yakumo (1): <Andrew>, Dhyer
5) Ciato (1): EvilTom
6) Meeple
7) Andrew

With 7 alive, 4 are needed to kill.  You have ~23 hours left.  Happy Hunting.

[Yakumo]

Blargh.  Tai just hadn't been posting much early, with reasons that are both understandable and showed up in other places than here.  When he came back, he made a couple megaposts with a lot of links, clippings, and commentary... which I just can't concentrate on long enough to get what he's trying to say, honestly.  Not these in particular, just megaposts like that in general.  I only ever skim them and generally all I get out of them is the final point.  Is it just me that's like that, by the way? >_>

Anyway.  After a couple of the megaposts to get back in the flow of the game, he went over Tom's 7.5 point attack on me, apologized to Alex for his tone, questioned why Tom was suddenly switching his vote, then made a couple posts about his posting habits and making a case for Tom.  Nothing great, nothing horrible.

Which leaves us with Tai attacking Tom and seeing me as town, Dhyer attacking me, me attacking Dhyer and seeing Tom as town, and Tom... sitting on a vote on Ciato? <_<  Well, before we go any farther down this road, would Tom care to share his thoughts on our suddenly shrunken pool of candidates?

[Luther Lansfeld]

And uh if it's not obvious I am Johnnie Cochran. I guess apparently I am badass enough to transgress death and play Mafia with Paris Hilton and Chuck Norris as well as video game characters. I rule.

Ok, going back and reading EvilTom, a few things stand out to me:

One is his attack on Excal.  He used the "Bored Vanilla Townie with nothing to do" point here, and Excal attacked it.

Weeell I think that this point has been analyzed and analyzed and the heart of the matter is that he was simply thinking that someone who was vanilla and didn't have any type of KEWL SEKRIT POWAS might just become bored with the game. And I guess if you have a short attention span you might or something, it's valid enough, and doesn't feel like a slip. Plus Excal’s pretty aggressive attack could have gotten him lynched if it had gone too far, so I’m not really sold on that being a scum thang.

Anyway, the other thing that stands out?
EvilTom DEFENDED Alex.  He pushed for Yakko initially, explained why he thinks its him, and explained why Alex's strategy wasn't a good strategy for scum.  While Alex didn't really play all that well (despite his claims, Tunnel Vision to that degree wasn't a smart move, ESPECIALLY when Smodge DID role claim and we had little else to go off of, ended up killing one of our own in the process, and all it did was make him look bad), EvilTom did accurately explain that Alex playing Scum like that would be worse than him playing Town like that, and low and behold, Alex flips up Town.

Yeah, I think it'd have been very easy for scum!Tom to just push the Alex train.

I don’t think Tom is scum (why start a different trail of thought during a nasty DUEL). I found some stuff, reading back, that irritates me but hey whatever.

Hm, Tai is someone I suspect for some intangible reasons. He says two things that catch my attention. He keeps talking about “my gut is screaming town” or “my gut is twisted up in a ball thinking about Tom”. Why does this catch my attention? Because it’s the exact same things that he did in Discworld Mafia as scum (which I also found telling and notable). What I see from him in Day 1 and 2 is nitpicking smodge and voting for Zenny pretty much. Three full (real) days past in between posts, and then comes out riding fences big time on me vs. Alex and of course picking at Thomas. Day 4 stuff.. I dunno, I'm biased toward because I felt the exact same way, honestly. >_>

Dhyer vs. Yakko I’m afraid will have to wait til tomorrow. I’m getting sleepy.

[EvilTom]

Argh.. not at home.. wireless from unknown source... dropping out constantly.

##Unvote Ciato first of all. Sorry I didn't do it earlier, I wanted to read over the recent developments before I adjusted my vote. It's quite clear to me now though.

I'm... I find myself litening to Meeple and Yakumo. That is to say, I'm split between Tai and Dhyer.
I was on Tai's case for lurking a little while back, but he was sick.
Dhyer.. what everyone else has said seems to have some merit..

I guess I'll go with ##Vote Tai for now. He gets negative points becuase I know he's currently voting for a towny >.> (Me )
This vote kind of completes the circle ^^; now there's a couple of us voting for each other.

Eeeeeh. Who the hell is Johnnie Cochran? :\

[Taishyr]

I rely on my gut in all games. It's what I used in FFT Mafia, WoT Mafia, and uh Discworld Mafia yes good point. >_> Still, I know it helps me narrow things down, and since doing votes without justification is stupid I'll provide what justification I have when I do vote (even if you consider primarily gut votes bad, I know that mine tend to be more accurate than my pure logical suppositions. Still, even both together can be wrong - see Alex).

I'm flipping myself between EvilTom and Dhyer... mrrrrrr. Dhyer I've just got no real read on, frustratingly, and EvilTom I keep getting mildly bad vibes from. I need to think on this, honestly; I've got the posts I think are notable pasted into notepad, but I'm blanking on what they could mean. Sorry this is taking so long, it's just... zbdah, brain is freezing.

Also, yes, who is Johnnie Cochran?

[Meeplelard]

OJ Simpson's attorney.  I shouldn't have to say much else.  He also appears in an episode of South Park where he's probably more famous (<_<; ) complete with the legendary Chewbacca Defense.

[Luther Lansfeld]

IF CHEWBACCA IS FROM ENDOR, YOU MUST ACQUIT!

[Luther Lansfeld]

We have only a few hours left. I'm hoping Tom and Dhyer and Andy show up soon.

[AndrewRogue]

I'm trying to think, but I'm fuzzy today. Will post something in a few though.

[Meeplelard]

I...mrf.  I'll give Tai the benefit of the doubt for this, regarding his lack of appearance, since it sounds like it was the case in other games as well (the one case he was active was during a moment we were in the Night Phase, it sounds like.)

Tom still feels Town to me, just one who makes a lot of wording mistakes that come off the wrong way.  Yakko feels neutral, so...

##Vote: Dhyerwolf

Feels like the best bet at the moment.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Mmm. Well right now I am leaning toward Dhyer; seems to OMGUS vote here, and trails others views on a lot of things.  I don't think you'd vote for your scum buddy when you could vote for Zenny who was doing the same thing and point out his inconsistencies. (Yakko voted second, which doesn't feel like scumbus territory. Second feels like DIVERT DIVERT! territory.)

Both Tai and Dhyer were on the Zenny train, on the other hand. Dhyer starts it, actually (QR voted first but it was a jokevote), and then Tai votes right after Excal, who is obviously also scum. None of the four switched from Zenny to Otter near the end at all, either from lack of activity or whatnot. Tom kept a Dhyer vote the entire day almost, and was gone for the rest.

Dhyer pokes at smodge a bit, Excal tears apart Tom in a post (which is notable for Tom at least), Dhyer joins smodge train, Tai was about to post before it. Day 4 Tai makes cases both against me and Alex and leans toward Alex being scum, Dhyer mostly goes after Yakko and tries to build a case on him. Tai flips votes to Alex. Has some megaposts in there too. Overall I don't know. I can't blame anyone for going after Alex. <_< I don't think scum really needed to push the Alex train at that point, so Dhyer voting would be unneeded.

This is mostly note-taking/rambling from me, but whatever.

Waiting for others to comment on everything before I vote.

[EvilTom]

Well Tom is here, but I'm heading off to work for the day soon... I'm not sure I have anything to add, sadly. I'm happy to swap my vote to Dhyer if it's required to get a lynch, as I was already tossing up between him and Tai anyway.

[Dhyerwolf]

Dhyer, I'm not going to get in a slap-fest with you over this, it's pretty much up to the others to decide which of us, if either, to believe here.

Okay, we can disagree on the misrepresentation issue, but that's the second time you've just flat evaded my suspicions on your day 3 and day 4 behavior. The first time you said I added nothing to the argument, and the second time this is the only way you acknowledge it at all. You haven't offered any explanation for why you basically ignored everything else that was going on Day 3, and your dropping a vote on Ciato day 4 with little reasoning.

[Meeplelard]

I just read the post where Yakko votes Ciato...

He pretty much voted her out of process of elimination, little else.  It was a "there really isn't much to go on, she seems the most suspicious, even if its very minor, but that's about it."

Again, read that post; he's mostly finding people with neutral or town reads.  Ciato vs. Alex was the thing he commented on regarding the two, saying Ciato felt a bit scummier than Alex, and he actually agreed with from where Alex was coming from regarding his defense.

Don't really see this leading to much honestly.  If Yakko had started a Ciato train or was the first to bring a case against Ciato, I might agree...but that wasn't the case.  Alex started it with what felt like a flavored up OMGUS Vote on Ciato, this lead to Ciato overreacting a bit, which in turn can make things a bit suspicious.  Alex presented his point several times, Yakko pretty much just was agreeing to it, at least favoring them over the points against Alex.

Yes, he hammered Alex in the end, but it was similar to my hammering Smodge; wasn't fond of the action, but we needed to hammer someone.  Alex wasn't going to suicide, the other two were seemingly not coming back (or outright said they weren't? Can't remember), so Yakko was the deciding factor.  Hammering Alex cause we need to Lynch Someone feels like it means little frankly.

Also, Yakko was on Alex's side of the argument, to put it one way.  If he was Scum, I don't think he'd try to defend Alex.  Alex was too easy a target for scum to pass up in terms of a lynch.  He's dead set on killing Smodge the entire game, Smodge flips up town when finally lynched, then his next action is, again, attacking the one person who tried to question his tunnel vision, right when the day starts.  This is something Scum would try to take full advantage of, frankly.  And then consider its Alex, someone who many consider a good player...yeah.  Furthermore, leaves them with a nightkill open as Alex is often a lightning rod to these things, they don't have to worry about wasting it on him (though, seems like they were predictable and Andrew stopped them anyway.)

So yeah, for now, I just...don't see the argument for Yakko.  Mind, I don't have a good read on him as is, but don't get a scum feeling as of now.

[EvilTom]

Well, there's about 5 hours left. I'm not going to be here for it, so for now I'm going to put Dyher to -1. I have to put my vote somewhere otherwise it'll be wasted, but nobody really stands out more than anyone else to me.. so I'll trust the train knows where it's going.

Even if we're wrong, it's better to attempt a lynch than not to.

##Unvote Tai
##Vote Dhyer

[Dhyerwolf]

I guess my broader point is that I find it out that people are calling me out for not making my own arguments and being wishy-washy when others were doing the same thing.