Random Mafia - Be Afraid...Very Afraid

[Luther Lansfeld]

I've been talking from a scum's point of view? I tell everything how it is. I think YOU are playing the same way as you did in the PW game, all this closed-minded aggressive BS is frankly stupid. Just because I was willing to tell you people that you were wrong doesn't mean anything other than (guess what) you were wrong! If preying on easy targets isn't scummy then I  don't know what is.

Please tell me why I'm the target of your attack and not the people who were hounding someone who is a suspect target. I have defended myself and posted as much as many people here. I have been trying to analyze every situation but you convinently ignore that. Since you're, y'know, scum.

##VOTE: Alex

[Luther Lansfeld]

Also, the general Zenthor rationale was that "scum will try to use this power to silence someone who is quiet, and then after establishing that they indeed have the power, silencing one of their own to clear them (ala WoT Mafia). Of course he could have been lying as scum but I didn't really think so. And of course I didn't anticipate a townie just blatently lying for fun.

[Taishyr]

Thoughts before my walk:

My main two problems thus far are Alex's mass tunnel vision (which was suddenly shattered today for a moment as he actually commented on everyone) and Ciato jumping to the assumption that Zenthor had been silenced...

...though that Zenthor turned up town is making me lean away from Ciato and toward Alex; if Zenthor had been scum I would have moved to lynch Ciato immediately day 3, since jumping on the silencer comment would have looked really foolish then. As it is it looks like town slipping on a deliberately lying townie.

I also find EvilTom's votehopping a bit bizarre; I want to look into the rationale behind each of his votes here, to see if I can track down anything odd.

I'll try to post more, but I seem to get slammed by coincidence/Discworld whenever I move to post here. I don't intend to give up or just die because I've had problems doing anything here, though. While I can understand the feeling, it's not my style.

[Meeplelard]

First off, I have to say, wonky game.  We had 2 Suicides, an ACTUAL Lynch, 2 Night Kills, and a Mod Kill...and out of this, we've managed to only lose 3 Towns; 2 scum down aint half bad, after all considering all the craziness!

I personally am curious about this "Scum Point of View" Ciato's been taking.   From what I read of her posts, she's mostly been attacking (for lack of a better word) Alex for his tunnel vision which, lets face it, is true.  Alex has been attacking Smodge the entire way through, and he finally flipped up and was exactly what he claimed; Hercule, a townie.

Now yes, I did Hammer Smodge, but I did that cause I finally agreed with Alex on grounds that we need to Lynch SOMEONE and it needs to NOT be a suicide, and there really wasn't much better a target.  Excal ended up getting Mod Killed anyway, so luck was on our side.  Quiet Rain going hurts a lot since she was pretty active, but whatever, thems the breaks.

ANYWAY...back to the Smodge Hammering, if we didn't get rid of him, we'd have little to work with.  At least now, Alex's sniping at him the entire time can be looked at.  Furthermore, has anybody supported lynching Smodge over either Otter or Excal.

This could help be a scum tell on grounds of "hey! Easy target! Lets all try to convince others to get him in order to avoid suspicion from us!"  Smodge basically set himself up for that by his bad playing.

Thing that catches my attention though is how Otter, even after blatantly lying, and Alex noticed this...Alex didn't change his vote.  This led to Otter suiciding.  Alex INSISTED on staying with Smodge even though Smodge's actions on Day 1 seemed like careless town slips and nothing to drastic.  If this was Day 2 it occured, yeah, I'd understand that. 
But here in lies the problem; Alex did it on DAY 1.  He voted Smodge, stayed with it THE ENTIRE WAY.  Alex has in chat made it clear he's a firm "Lynch All Liars."  He stated this back when we were playing out first game, in chat as a joke, I pondered the idea "I wonder what kind of reaction I'd get if I said 'I am scum!' regardless of my role" and noted how that'd be the ultimate mind game.  Alex said "I'd Lynch Meeple no questions asked on the spot if he said that; Lynch All Liars!" Again, my statement there was a joke, but Alex revealed an obvious strategy of Lynch All Liars.

Now, Otter came in and lied; Yakko called him out on it, stating that Otter indeed had plenty of time to post, and wasted plenty of time in chat when he claimed it was "20 seconds." Otter got lynched for it...but he suicided in the end, hammering himself.

Alex never once changed his thoughts on Smodge; he said Lying is bad, but never really followed up on it.  Considering that and how Tunnel Vision ALex has been, plus how Alex basically just went for the one person who has been calling him out on his tunnel vision the entire way, can't help but feel something is up.

So for now...

##Vote: Alex


AND...Tai posts as I post (yay for these boards stating these things in nice red letters!  Avoids being ninjaed <_<)  He brought up a point after I formed this that only furthers my suspicions:
Ciato said "oh, Zenny's silenced, k" and later we learned that wasn't true.  Now, if Zenny *WAS* truly silenced, or hit in a way of "Post once and that's it for the day", that'd be suspicious.  But it seemed more like Ciato was jumping to conclusions, and figuring Zenny wouldn't be so stupid as to post twice and the second one claiming he was silenced.  Dhyer was the first person to really notice this (or at least, bring it out to our attention.)  Zenny turning up Town helps confirm this.

So yeah, seems like Ciato was too lazy to really go back to check if Zenny had posted that day, and just assumed it was silencing since he hadn't posted in a while. 

Anyway, yeah, my vote above stands and I feel more confident about it.

[Ranmilia]

Ciato, if you
were against lynching Smodge, then
why were you silent?

You posted hammer
counting, so you were right there,
but you said no more.

If I was preying
on easy targets, I would
not be voting you!

Smodge was rightly lynched.
He acted scummy.  This was
agreed by many.

He was at the top
of nearly everybody's
suspect lists all game.

The only people
who could have KNOWN
he was town are scum.

On Ciato's views:
Reply number 130:
"I want to say Rat

seems like an awkward
kill for that reason. Although
he can't really be

tied to others, which
I guess was the rationale."
Then, 152:

"I think this Andy
vs. smodge thing reeks of not
being town vs.

town to me for some
reason, although I can't place
my finger on why

I believe this." Then,
173: "Hounding
someone who twists their

words around themselves
at times is profit for scum."
"The focus on smodge

seems like exactly
what scum want to me! And I
find Andrew's pressing

off in some manner."
179, again,
she claims gut on Zen.

Scum knew Smodge and I
were town all along, and so
I find it likely

that one went pro-Smodge
(but not TOO hard, declining
to defend further

when hammer approached!)
in order to look good and
get a lynch on me.

This "tunnel vision"
I have explained lots before.
Should I do so more?

If someone comes up
on day one, and asks you to
make a megalist,

do you do it?  Or
do you look at them funny
and ask them "Why are

you asking me to make
cases on other people
out of thin air, now?"

There was no case to
be made on anyone but
Smodge, on prior days.

NOW, yes, it is time
to look around and poke at
everyone.  Not then.

I would like to see
lots of discussion from Tai,
Yakko and Dhyer.

[EvilTom]

It's clear to me who is scum.

##Vote Yakumo

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3723#msg3723
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3731#msg3731

I called both Excal and Yakumo as scum back then; I had no support, so I decided to use my vote to help end the Smodge issue. But now that one of them has flipped scum, I'm more convinced than ever about the other. Just got back from Phantom of the Opera (was awesome!) and starving, so I'll do a breakdown later. Until then, throw in your opinions.

[AndrewRogue]

Ciato: I'm reasonably sure she's a townie. Her play has been rather beneficial, if a little laid back. Her arguments do warrant attention (she's been anti-pure one person argumentation).

Alex: Hrm... I want to say he feels scummy, but I have a hard time buying that given both his voting record and fairly single-minded attack of Smodge before this point. It just doesn't seem like solid scum play.

Evil Tom: Torn on him. The lynch of Zenethor makes me uncomfortable, but the implication of Excal (who later turns up scum) looks good. I'm tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Tai: Hard to get a read on because he feels largely non-present to me...

Meeple: Generic townie read.

Dhyer: His posts are setting off warnings with me. He caught Zenny's stupidity, which you would normally think is a good thing, but it is also something that reads of scum latching onto a free townie lynch. Furthermore, the majority of his posts have been very... wishy-washy until deep in the voting. He has tended to play both sides of the fence, which is a form of lurking in and of itself (he avoids calling attention to himself and remains in the background).

Yakumo: Mrgh. No guess.

At the moment... ##Vote: Dhyer

The Zenny thing can't really be dealt with (pure WIFOM, sadly), but I would like to hear why you've been so neutral this entire game. We can't get anything done unless people take stances on issues, so let me hear what you've got.

[Ranmilia]

Regarding Excal,
I'm co-modding the Discworld
game, where he was scum.

Knowing this made me
more inclined to buy into
his excuses of

being distracted
by that game, though of course I
could not say that here.

For that reason I
dismissed the fuss over him -
at that time, at least.

I think Tom was sort
of overreacting there,
not enough to call.

In retrospect, though,
he has a point on Yakko.
Not for the reasons

he states, exactly,
but regarding reply two
hundred and sixteen.

This is quite the odd
attack for Yakko to make.
He mentions that Tom

"gave Excal a pass"
but Tom voted for Excal
just two posts above.

Tom made a misstep
with the "vanilla townie"
comment, for dang sure,

however it is
a comparative statement,
makes sense to me thus.

Yakko's main cited
reason for his vote there was
Tom's attack on Tai.

But the cases on
both Taishyr and Excal
were lurking, and Tai

had not posted, while
Excal had.  And Tom went for
both of them, sure nuff.

Yakko's vote is odd.
There may be something to what
Tom is saying here.

Or, it could be more
smoke and mirrors, the dangers
of case invention

when there is nothing
on which to base lynch cases,
save for red herrings.
-------------------------------------
This will be my last
post for some time, as I must
sleep now and will be

gone all tomorrow
till evening.  As I am
apparently the

top target for a
lot of people for reasons
I find shaky,

I will say this: Stop.
Think.  If you are inclined to
vote me for "tunnel

vision" earlier,
"Tunnel vision is bad!" is
a false platitude.

Think hard and try to
articulate clearly how
exactly focus

on one lynch target
hurts town, when there are no more
clear cases to hunt.

Tell me another
case I should have been talking
on extensively.

I haven't seen one.
I don't think there was one, and
I think inventing

cases for the sake
of inventing more cases
and chasing more tails

without evidence
to sustain such cases is
much more town-harmful.

Do not buy into
"tunnel vision is bad!" when
diffusion is worse.

[Dhyerwolf]

I've been neutral mostly because I thought that both Alex and Smodge's arguments had strongpoints and weakpoints, and there wasn't really too much else to take on opinion on. Alex was extremely focused, while Smodge made some massive blunders but still was able to show a pretty strong pattern of how Alex wasn't even looking at other people at all. They both brought up some good points, so yes it was hard to take an immediate side with just one of them. There really hasn't been much other than that to analyze anyways.

On Today
Well, it's appears that people jumped into full vote swing.

Alex's Vote on Ciato: 59 and 66...well, 66 is chided Smodge for trying to actually try to find out roles while 59 says that she believed the the speech patterns would tell anything about roles. Definetely doesn't seem like a true flip-flop to me, just a case of vague wording overlap. Of course, I had to read it a few times to even fully decipher that so I could be misreading. The whole argument against her doesn't feel all that strong. He says that she's been narrow minded too, but then lists off 3 people that she found questionable even if he claims she didn't analyze them enough. On saying this like town vs town...that's hardly uncommon or unique to Ciato.

The Votes on Alex: I find these more justifiable. Okay, Alex did list a few of the things he was holding back, but for the most part it felt like after all the pushing to lynch Smodge because nothing else could be revealed otherwise...it didn't reveal all that much. Finding his case on Ciato shaky doesn't help too much. That said, the pushing Smodge lynch could be read in too many ways. He's definetely high on my suspicions list, but if he's scum, he was playing a dangerous style. Also, yeah, I can't agree with any viewpoint that says that examining others is a bad thing. Focusing on one person is bad.

Tom's vote on Yakumo: His reasoning is actually pretty good here. Rereading what he linked, Yakumo does seem to be misrepresenting Tom. Tom didn't excuse Excal, but he rather noted that Tai was lurking more and went after him based off of that. Yakumo has also been lurking heavily. I feel like his method of communication has somewhat masked how much he speaks, because looking back at it, he's only speaking rarely and in short bursts. I guess the only strike I would have against Tom is that he said he took his vote off Excal to put on Smodge to end the issue when he was only the 3rd vote. But that can likely be chalked up to his missing QR's unvote.

Since I find Yakumo's lurking and his actions towards Tom to be the most suspicious of the things here
##Vote: Yakumo

[Taishyr]

Part of the problem with saying there's no case on anyone else? That's because you're not working to build one, with tunnel vision. And when you insist that everyone either conform to your dead-on view or nothing effective can get done, as it feels like is being said at least implicitly? Well. Then you get problems.

Thinking EvilTom is town, looking at the votejumping and the timing. I may be wrong on this, but gut says no.

Mmm. Hold on, lemme check on two people's posts, something just occurred to me

[EvilTom]

Ok, so much to say. Looks like a few others have beat me to many of the points; I won't go through them again, I'll just reference them.

The aim of this post is to push the case for Yakumo being scum.

#1 - Robot talk;
make what you will of it, it's hard to read, even moreso than Haiku. Easy to conceal content and lack of.
I'm going to sat that Yakumo is a Dalek, which we all know are pure evil.  This *is* random, so it sounds about right that one would fall out of space-time and into this pocket dimension.
Seriously speaking, Yakumo may have some kind of post restriction, forcing robot speak. So Yakumo, where is the DOK-TOR?
*Hides up a flight of stairs*

#2 - Smodge;
Excal was the first on his case, but Yakumo wasn't far behind. http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg2997#msg2997
I think there was a good reason, too:

I apologize if trying to work out if there was any motive behind the posts, correct me if i'm wrong, but don't scum sometimes have roles to? also although i have seen Alex "act strange" in both his games, it now seems to be more the norm for him, Yakumo on the other hand is the first time i have seen him do it, hence i was wondering if he was playing around with whatever flavor or if there was a link.

Let's suppose that Smodge was correct; pretend for a moment I'm also correct about the Dalek thing... that could blow Yakumo's scumminess wide open. What better way to discredit the theory than to nail Smodge to a cross?
Smodge: Alex is always a weirdo, but this is unusal for Yakumo
Yakumo: ZOMGUS LYNCH
Yakumo could be hurt badly, very badly. Getting Smodge lynched is the perfect solution... but a NK would draw far too much attention.
(Smodge also voted for Excal in JokeVote, but I seriously doubt that would be the issue. Listed for completeness).

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg2997#msg2997 - This is a good example of Yakumo drawing attention to Smodge, but placing the focus on Alex. Not playing it up too much, but enough to suggest a day 1 lynch.
Actually, the followup by Ciato also puts Ciato under suspicion.. I'll examine that later (along with Alex).

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3009#msg3009 - Quickly after, Yakumo pushes Smodge's case hard.

#2.5 - Carthrat;
Smodge pointed out that Carthrat was defending Smodge, and was offed that night. Why? Obviously Smodge said something that was terrifying the scum.. but they couldn't NK Smodge directly. They needed to ensure a day 2 lynch of Smodge, by removing those who defended him. Looks like it worked, kinda.
*Note: He also was supporting Alex. No reason for ScumAlex to NK him.

#3 - Otter;
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3173#msg3173 - He picked it up.. but was Otter already gone? Is this a scumbus? I say yes. Then there's all the theories about Otter wanting to self-hammer 'cos he hated the character. SO letting Yakumo take credit for calling out his lies is probably a good strat.

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3432#msg3432 - Confuses me and says nothing. Added for completeness.

#4 - The second day;

Not you i'm suspicious of, it was that Yakumo/Rat followed quickly without even mentioning Zenthor, the Suspicion wasn't on you but on Rat/Yakumo (although rat is obviously innocent).

More circumstantial comments, showing Smodge as dangerous to Yaku.

#4.5 - The end of Smodge;
As it looks like the town is ready top jump on Smodge, Yakumo goes quiet, and lets Andrew/Alex/Ciato/Meep/myself finish him.

Oh, and Excal goes in for the kill.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3532#msg3532 - And then gets pissed off when I won't allow him to be hammered without proper discussion.

#5 - Character break;
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3544#msg3544 - Yakumo breaks character to see whether or not it's making him look suspicious; Ciato reasures him and tells him to keep going. I'm not sure if I can draw a line between Ciato and Yaku here or not, but I'll put it out there.

#6 - After the hammer;
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3591#msg3591 - I dunno. It's metagamey, but could be annoyance that we didn't hammer Smodge? I dunno.

#7 - The end of Excal and Yakumo;
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3715#msg3715
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3717#msg3717
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3723#msg3723
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3725#msg3725
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3726#msg3726
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3731#msg3731

I'm going to post this now as is, and come back to other stuff later. This post is getting too big.

[EvilTom]

I'll come back to this after a shower. Feel free to jump in, anyone.

[EvilTom]

Ok, time to have another crack at this. Continuing from last post, about all those links~

Ok, so I thought Excal was sus; I decided that it could be written off as someone who was bored with this game (potentially because they didn't have a power role), and were playing more in a different game. So I left Excal alone to go after Tai. Then, Excal spouts a bunch of towny crap after throwing a vote on me. I have no idea why he did this, as scum. I was supporting him, so it makes no sense. It does lead to the idea that Tai may be scum, but you could also argue that it's a setup to frame Tai. I'm not going to touch this one, too much WIFOM.

I lay out some stuff, and re-vote Excal.

Yakumo backs up Excal. Goes on a spree against me, misrepresenting things. Trying to get me lynched... damage control for Excal?

Then all goes quiet.
(Yes, the first post had all the thunder).

So:
Why I don't think it's Alex:
It'd be a crap scum ploy. Start on day 1 and go after smodge for 3 days? So you can appear wrong? Why? It makes no sense. Sure, it's not the best town play (it's rather bad, really), but it doesn't even sound like a scum ploy. It sounds suicidal. Alex has nothing to gain if he's scum. Seriously, think it over before you jump on the Alex train. Ignore the hype, and ask yourself /why/.
So, if it's just bad town play, should we lynch him? Hell no! I'm sick of that argument "bad scum or bad town, lynch anyway!", it's rubbish. It only benefits scum, really.
Could I be wrong? Sure! If I'm wrong about Yakumo (then I'm gunna look retarded), then several of these points also apply to Alex (chat flavour, killing off Smodge for role investigation etc). I'm not saying "if X is town lynch Y". Saying that is a scumtell, apparently. Well fuck that. If I'm wrong about Yaku, I'll re-examine them for Alex then. But my logic (and gut) say Yaku.

Supporting players:
I'm looking at Ciato, but I don't have anything, and my gut isn't behind it. I just thought I'd mention it.

Other suspects:
Tai.... was lurking... was sick... was defended by scum real quick. I'd check him along with Ciato, only after Alex.


Anyway, that's the end of my "Yakumo is scum" file.

Please comment/argue/agree/etc.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Tom: I really don't think there's more than one scum left. 11/3 is pretty much a standard split, whereas 10/4 is a pretty scum-heavy split.

The main reason I think Alex is scum is because I believe that he is fully willing to push things incredibly hard because he knows that he's down (because Otter and Excal didn't exactly *play* this game). In fact this is what he did in PW in Day 3, remember? As I said, it's fairly easy to portray smodge as this bad player, shut down all other discussion (this is important, and what he effectively did this game), and then point fingers at someone who defended him, despite the fact that a *townie* doing that makes little sense.

By saying I am not playing the same as in PW is... well, a lie because I played the same. I didn't post enough for his standards or whatever, he accused me of being scum. In fact the utter reminscience of this situation is why I'm pretty convinced on him, and the blatent misrepresentation. "Trolling for role calls" is what he said about smodge. Do you think he was really "trolling for roll calls", Thomas?

QR kill feels like it could go either way. Almost feels designed to incriminate Alex. Alternatively, designed to kill someone off who would be all over his ass so he has free clearance to call me out baselessly. Too much WIFOM for me really, but I don't see the motive behind myself killing her at this time, since she was someone who backed me in my beliefs.

The second possibility in my mind is Tai. He's been very under the radar, mainly only hitting cursory points about Alex and myself and that's pretty much it. I do sympathize with him though, since right now I feel absolutely horrible, but I want to see more content anyway. Also this defending from Excal that Thomas speaks of but I don't have the time to search and try to see what the intent was there.

Tom... defended Excal and called him a vanilla townie, was willing to go with the flow on smodge. The case against Yakko is pretty weird (like, I'm pretty sure I know who his character is, and it's not this evil person you are saying <_<), but it's certainly valid enough. Will click links when I have more time.

Dhyer is the last person I am reasonably suspicious of, just because of taking the group's lead. Alex, being very bold about his charge vs. smodge, would be fairly easy to just casually lurk behind and then point fingers and have 'suspicions' of Alex.

However, I am very convinced that Alex is intentionally misrepresenting me and others, and I'm not going to back down from this because I am really quite convinced that he is scum. I don't think this is just bad townie play; townies don't want to overblow everything in an attempt to get people lynched and they don't want discussion to be completely derailed by one person's missteps.

[Yakumo]

I can't really make a long, coherent post in-character, so here goes.  One: I haven't even got a clue what a Dalek is.  The character I'm portraying is loosely based on HK-47 from KotOR.  I say loosely because I don't recall exactly how he talks, just some of the mannerisms.  This is not a roleclaim, however.  My role has nothing to do with robots at all.  I just felt like doing something different for a change.  PSPs have horrible character limits, this has to be split.

[Yakumo]

As for being upset about hammer scaring people off, that has nothing to do with who was on the block, it's been bugging me for a while.  I even spoke against it in Discworld.

[Yakumo]

Pretty much all of your day one points against me require that Smodge's comments about roles matter to me, which they don't as the odd speak is not required, and that a post-restricted role makes me automatically scummy.  Really, the whole point that was trying to be made against Smodge there was that digging for roles that early hurts town.  Any townie that says their role that early gives scum info they didn't have before, and scum are just going to lie anyway.  His play day one was anti-town.

[Yakumo]

I saw a better case for Excal than Tai as I knew that Tai had not, despite what you had claimed, posted while this game was active yet not posted here.  Tai had posted while this game was in the night phase and had not been around at all since to my knowledge.  My defense of Excal was more of an attack on you because I thought you said he was a vanilla townie because you knew he was town, which is now proven not to be the case.  There can be vanilla scum too, after all.

[Dhyerwolf]

While attacking Tom's "vanilla townie" slipup was perfectly valid, he is right in that you seemed to twist his words around to make him look worse. Saying he gave Excal a free pass when he didn't is the big one. While both you and Alex are facing claims of misrepresenting people, yours looks worse because Alex gave us a nice post number to help us follow along so we could better analyze for ourselves.

That said, Tom's analysis of Smodge day one...feels like he's overreading into things. Smodge was making suspicious actions, so calling him on it makes sense.

[Ranmilia]

Regarding the flip
of Ciato, it isn't
something I'm making

up out of thin air.
Quietrain comments on it
as well, in reply

75.  In
59, Ciato says
"didn't speculate

roles from this, how the
hell could you do that?"  Then in
66 she pulls

a complete turn-round,
acknowledging that Smodge was
in fact role fishing,

and condemns him thus,
while also commentating
on his link theories.

This, and her lack of
any serious attempt
to save Smodge day 3

are my main points of
concern about her, although
what I perceive as

low content posting,
lack of justifications
and her being the

one who assisted
Smodge's role discussion in
the first place don't help.

Tom's analysis
of Yakko is intriguing,
though point 1 is bunk.

Not too convinced yet,
but I'd really like to see
Yakko's defense on

the issue Dhyer
kindly pointed out, re Tom's
stance on Excal/Tai.

[EvilTom]

I've said all I need to say, but may as well do a vote count;

Dhyer (1) - Andrew
Alex (2) - Ciato, Meeple
Yakumo (2) - EvilTom, Dhyerwolf
Ciato (1) - Alex

Roughly 25 hours to go. I think it takes 5 to lynch, with 8 alive.

2 still haven't voted.


>

Mmm. Hold on, lemme check on two people's posts, something just occurred to me

Please end this cliffhanger >.<

[Yakumo]

Upon further review, suspicion from Dread Thomas toward meatbag titled Taishyr based on extremely tenuous evidence.  Meatbag Taishyr not posting much in any topic in recent days.  Only posts yesterday also during night phase of this game.  Also, Dread Thomas appeared earlier to be giving meatbag Excal free pass for virtually identical reasoning, meatbag who was focusing on Discworld game to an extent which downgraded performance in this game.  Evidence against Dread Thomas mounting.

##Vote: EvilTom

(emphasis added)

Read what I said, please.  I didn't say he was doing it at the time I made the post, I said he had been doing it.  It struck me as odd that up until the post shortly before I made this one he had ignored Excal when he had at least been around during the day phase and not really posted.  In fact, his vote for Excal never even noted the fact that Excal had been lurking, it was attacking him for the post he had just made.  This is the post that he voted Excal in, note that he's still talking about Tai lurking and never mentions that Excal had been doing essentially the same thing.  He'd been gone for a day and a half between posts.

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=300.msg3723#msg3723

[Yakumo]

That doesn't sound quite right.  I should say that he never mentions Excal's lurking as a scumtell, he attributes it to Discworld.  The thing is, Tai was also still playing in Discworld too.

[EvilTom]

You know, Excal hasn't been paying attention, which at first I found suspicious...

....

I'd like to compare that to Tai: it's been 5 pages and nearly 2 days real time since we heard from Tai; meanwhile, he's been busy over in discworld since..

##Vote: Tai

Weak, Excal. My reasoning for voting Tai over Excal was clear; Tai had been lurking in this game for ageees while posting in DW. Excal had bosted. I had suspicion on *both* of them, but I decided that Tai was more suspicious because he'd been active in just one game. He could have posted here, but didn't. Anyway, I was away for most of day 1, and in day 2 I was mostly going after Andrew and Alex at the start. I was also ignoring everyone else, not just excal, because that's my style of play. I latch onto one or two players, and go after them until I'm convinced they're either town or scum. Shotgun approaches don't help, as Alex has said. Then after I was convinced Andrew was ok, I went after Smodge then Zenny. I wasn't ignoring Excal, I just hadn't set my sights on him yet (probably because he hadn't said much worthy of attacking yet).

I decided that my 'gut feeling' about Excal (at that point) was that he was just a bored towny (attributed to not having a role, therefore probably vanilla, as roles are usually more exciting to play). And then you and Excal leapt on that and twisted it around to make it sound like I was some kind of rolecop. Everyone has seen your misrepresentations for what they are now.

In summary:
I wasn't ignoring Excal specifically.
And Tai was more suspicious, because he was lurking the most. I only have one vote, and  picked Tai.

[Yakumo]

Weak, Excal. My reasoning for voting Tai over Excal was clear; Tai had been lurking in this game for ageees while posting in DW. Excal had bosted. I had suspicion on *both* of them, but I decided that Tai was more suspicious because he'd been active in just one game. He could have posted here, but didn't. Anyway, I was away for most of day 1, and in day 2 I was mostly going after Andrew and Alex at the start. I was also ignoring everyone else, not just excal, because that's my style of play. I latch onto one or two players, and go after them until I'm convinced they're either town or scum. Shotgun approaches don't help, as Alex has said. Then after I was convinced Andrew was ok, I went after Smodge then Zenny. I wasn't ignoring Excal, I just hadn't set my sights on him yet (probably because he hadn't said much worthy of attacking yet).

How many times do I have to say it before it gets through your thick skull?  Tai was posting in Discworld while this game was in the night phase!  He couldn't have posted here at the time he was posting no matter what he wanted to do!  This is what I attacked you for before, and you refused to listed to me, for calling Tai more of a lurker than Excal over that period when they were doing the same thing.