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Author Topic: Simpsons Mafia GAME OVER - TOWN WIN  (Read 41675 times)

Bardiche

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2009, 11:00:39 PM »
##UNVOTE

##VOTE: Meeplelard

Be decisive! I move my vote towards you because I fail to comprehend the point of going "argh don't want to vote Delta" and then voting on him anyway. Why didn't you just delete your "earlier reservations" from sooner on in the post then? Why post those useless thoughts when you discard them in the same post?

Also why profess the two people with two votes on them have "shakey reasons at best" when they are simply jokevotes?

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2009, 11:23:56 PM »
Seconding everything Bard just said. Delta isn't "as good a place to start as any." Putting votes on him right now is actually quite useless. Given how long he's been idle, the mod should be the one on his case, not us. I don't see what purpose it serves to try and pressure someone who's not even posted. Vote for people with questionable material, people who can actually respond, otherwise you're just laying the foundation for a lynch which is a total crapshoot in regards to the player's alignment (how can you judge this at all with no posts?) and which gives us nothing to work with tomorrow.

Xanth

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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 12:10:05 AM »
I agree in principal, but don't understand why there's quite so much more of a reaction to pressure voting than normal. Meeple being quite so wet doesn't help in the slightest (and is frankly much more the problem than the vote for Delta itself), but I thought has tended to be relatively standard opening-ish play in past games. As much as I recall El Cid playing aggressive early games, this feels too hard, too soon.

Sierra

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2009, 12:26:28 AM »
More than a day into the game and we've still got a mess of people who've done nothing past the jokevote stage. When exactly should I get aggressive, if no one else is going to? And is this objectionable because it doesn't fit your profile of my behavior, or would anyone making my argument be suspect?

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2009, 01:04:23 AM »
Have some thoughts on Delta.  I'm not sure if he's the best lynch.  Yes scum like to lurk, but for scum to skip the first day entirely?  That's actively suspicious, and would mean - assuming Delta IS scum - one of: he was busy for plain vanilla reasons, is not a very good scum player by lurking too blatantly, or is pulling some kind of double bluff to insulate himself from this very logic.  I'm inclined to just think "he's busy" myself.

Which is not to say we have much to work with here, granted.  Strago's extremely virulent track record of basically every crime known to the 4th grade is pretty suspicious to me, but AndrewRogue was a killjoy and declared joke voting over.

##VOTE Bardiche
for making a single joke vote and not posting since.  No, it isn't much to go on, but that strikes me as a more classy lurk for the aspiring stonecutter.

SnowFire

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2009, 01:05:44 AM »
EDIT: And if by "not posting since" I mean "SnowFire is blind" and missed his other post.

##UNVOTE: Bardiche

SnowFire

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2009, 01:09:49 AM »
AHEM.  Yeah, Bard's post was on the second page and I was only scanning the first page.  Checking again, somebody who does fit that profile is...

##VOTE: Cathrat
With the same disclaimers above about this being a vote strictly over "one post than nothing."

AndrewRogue

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2009, 01:19:52 AM »
Uh... well. I'm kind of surprised by this particular reaction because, let's be honest here. The DL lets lurkers slide all the time, and making sure that tabs are kept on them is always a good policy. Encouraging people who might be purposefully lurking into posting is not a bad policy, especially since, well. I didn't exactly have mountains of people to vote on for any reason at the time. Putting down a real vote for someone who does something bad... doesn't seem like that bad a plan to me, you know? Again, it keeps lurkers in the public eye and it helps generate discussion.

So yeah, I do actually feel there is some relevance to the concept of pressure votes because they keep lurkers in the public eye and make it much harder for them to sneak around and occassionally add in little "Oh look, I'm here" posts. I'd say, at the very least, it is as valid an opening approach as jumping on me for an obvious joke that plays off past jokes I've made.

Out of curiosity, what would be a more "impressive" opening to you, Cid?

Beyond that... Meeple. Man, could you provide a weaker snatch of me-too-ism? You half-heartedly claim you are going to keep your vote on Cid and then just sort of switch to Delta at the last minute. While I could see the case for doing it, you don't really put any strength behind the vote or provide much of anything. For example, why were you originally going to keep your vote on Cid and why does the Delta thing suddenly override that?

##Unvote: Delta
##Vote: Meeple


I'd like to hear the logic behind your post, as well as your thoughts on myself, Xanth and Cid.

Xanth: If you were going to throw out a vote now (not a bad idea, considering our declining time), who would you put it on?

Delta: Post!

Everyone else, say SOMETHING.

NinjaEdit: Yay! Someone else. Boo missing posts. Boo not saying much about the people who are being active right now. It is well and good to discuss Delta and other people that aren't talking, but what about discussing the people who are actively talking right now? We've got some dialogue going. Take advantage of it.

EvilTom

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2009, 01:57:15 AM »
+ Huh. I'd have expected Rat to post again by now. Odd. Especially as he's received a couple of votes. My joke vote becomes a prod vote.
+ Blah blah voting for Delta sucks/unproductive, make a real vote.
+ Only scum benefit from voting Delta.
+ Snow - too much WIFOM. He hasn't posted = real life problem/replacement/modkill.
+ Xanth - Jokevote hate isn't helping anyone :(

*waves* Hey Carl!
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2009, 03:32:39 AM »
Out of curiosity, what would be a more "impressive" opening to you, Cid?

Pretty much anything other than going for the easiest target in the game. Pressuring lurkers is one thing, but you can't pressure someone who's not actually in the game. When someone goes this far into the game without posting, it's the mod's concern and not ours. It's a waste of time and votes to make an issue out of it. If you'd been voting for someone who simply posted very little, or who posted frequently without saying anything of worth, I'd be right behind you in supporting it as a legitimate lurker vote. But someone who hasn't posted? What's the point? What can your vote really accomplish? If he continues to not post, then your vote does nothing to further discussion; you can't elaborate on a point as simple as "not active," all you can do is repeat it. And even if he does get active, then...your vote just tells him that you want him to say stuff. That's nice and all, but isn't it more worth our time to use votes to address more specific points, and to target players who we at know at least can respond? (It is at this point that I acknowledge that you are now actually doing this, yes.)

In sum, a vote for anyone else would've been more "impressive" than a pressure vote on someone who, for all intents and purposes, doesn't appear to be playing the game. A Delta vote is an easy way for scum to try and look like dutiful townies by going after lurkers, hence my vote for you.

(I presume you wouldn't defend actually spending a lynch on someone who's never posted, so I'll forego that entire discussion.)

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2009, 04:00:14 AM »
*waves* Hey Lenny!

Yeah, I got mostly nothin so far.  In a shocking change from my usual Mafia tendencies, I probably won't be around too much this week and weekend, so don't expect more than a couple posts per realtime day from me.

Day 1 always kinda sucks, and this particular one feels even slower than usual what with Delta not even showing up and other people centering discussion around that (which is useless and I've nothing further to say there, either he shows up and starts playing or gets modkilled.)

Hey, Moe, who do you think we should vote?

.... eehhhhh...

##Unvote: Carthrat
##Vote: Snowfire


Snowfire gives a definite vibe of trying too hard.  Getting things started is of course excellent, and LAL is also excellent, but just going down the list of players and voting folks for not posting much on day 1, rather than find an actual issue to try and start on... doesn't sit too well.  Out of the vibes I've gotten from people so far, he's the scummiest.

Excal

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2009, 04:10:44 AM »
Generally agreed with what El Cid, and more importantly, Bard said.

Of course, I'm curious as to why Cid's vote is still on Andy even while he supports Bard's case on Meeple.  Also curious is Xanth and the odd interaction going on there between those two.  Not sure what's going on, but I do find it interesting that he picks the guy who didn't vote Meeple for being aggressive.

Snowfire also stands out, but I have a hard time seeing a scum lurker hunt hitting the one person whose made a solid case.  So...  yeah.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Xanth

Honestly, I'm not sure if this is a copout or not.  But...  I don't quite feel the case on Meeple, and Xanth's focus on Cid of all people leaves me uncomfortable.

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2009, 04:46:19 AM »
Hi Everybody!

Current votecount for my own help (Updated for the Ninjas):
Meeple (2): El-Cid, Bardiche, Andrew
Eviltom (0): Bardiche
Carthrat (2): EvilTom, SirAlex, Snowfire
Snowfire (1): Xanth, SirAlex
El Cid (1): Meeple, Excal
Xanth (1): Ryogo, Excal
AndrewRogue (2): Strago, El-Cid
Delta (1): Andrew, Meeple
Bardiche (0): SnowFire

Figured I'd get my two shiny coins in while I can!

Delta - Would've said something by now if he wasn't busy, in my opinion. I'd say he isn't a good lynch candidate right now. But when/if he does come around, he'll have some explaining to do and give me some reasoning for at least why he's been gone the whole day. He should've gotten a post in by now. But I'm with Cid on this one. Its the mod's worry now.
+ Blah blah voting for Delta sucks/unproductive, make a real vote.
+ Only scum benefit from voting Delta.

Ditto those thoughts there, Tom.

Note: Clicked preview and was ninja'd by Alex and Excal, just FYI

Anyways, moving on from the subject of Delta.
The problem with day 1 is, there really isn't much to go off of... Personally, any reason other than a joke vote is a viable reasoning at this stage, as long as you can back it up with said reasons. Sure, Snowfire may be trying hard to get things started, and it may seem a little off to some but I get the vibe of someone just reaching for some reasoning behind already shoddy enough of a voting day. Slight suspicion there, but I'm the same way with others. I don't feel Snow is giving off the scum vibe, is all. But then again, you guys know each other a helluva lot better than I, And I've haven't played much mafia, so maybe I'm missing something.

Xanth and Carth are main suspects right now for me. Meeple as a not so close third.

Reasonings:
Xanth: Gut? Something about him just doesn't sit well. Focus on Cid, but lack of a vote yet. Gave an excuse to lurk (Yeah, I know, I did that too tonight. I'll be the first to call myself on that before anyone else brings it up). I dunno, I just currently feel my vote is just as good there as it is on the other two. They're in a good position to sneak in a vote now help a mis-lynch along without raising too much suspicion. Just don't like it...

Agree with their reasoning on Meeple though. The vote on Delta is pretty standard for an opening move.

Carth: One post so far. Lets us know that he's been here and around, but hasn't taken a look at the game since which strikes me as strange. Even if it is day 1, I'm still curious as to what is going on and try to leave what my thoughts on the situation is/who is scummy. Maybe he's just busy. Maybe its his timezone (No clue where he is). Still, he's shown that he could be on at one point and time, and has failed to come around again. Not liking this. But he is starting to feel the pressure. If he's not showing up by my morning, he's gonna get my vote unless other information/cases arise.

Meeple: Not a strong case, but more so than the average player. The "I'm not gonna vote for Delta" and then doing so afterwards in teh same post just sends readers around in circles, which is not helpful for town and leads people to reasoning like mine, especially with little else to go off of. Defiantly not my #1 lynch candidate right now, but keep a pair of eyes (Or trio, in the case of Blinky) on the man to be safe.

So yeah. Xanth keeps vote for today. Just.. doesn't sit well with me.

Also, quick question that is game term related.

I hate the joke phase as much as the next guy, but have more trouble with the memes than anything else, over refusing to participate in the phase at all (which I can at least see rationale for). It's all still a crapshoot no matter how you go about it and yes, a lot of it is intended in jest and good humour, but even in joke votes I prefer ones with a relevant-to-this-game train of thought (Meeple's is a good example of completely and utterly useless beyond as a joke vote, yet still fun and directed) than ones like Bardiche's and EvilTom's where there's nothing in-game about it (and Strago brushed by AIAS).

Just curious what "AIAS" means. Can't figure it out.

Meeplelard

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2009, 04:49:00 AM »
Ok, so it seems my little prod has gotten suspicion.  Should have seen this coming, but my general thought was that I was trying to get SOME discussion going.  And well, it worked! ...even if the discussion ended up directed mostly at me, I'm apparently good at painting myself a target.

It was a train of thought type post, for the most part, hence the wishie washiness and I guess I said more than I should have...yeah, Meeple Thoughts being transcribed = bad, etc.

In any event, I suppose this vote does absolutely nothing so...

##Unvote: Deltaflyer

However...

Excal, I think he's calling El-Cid aggressive mostly cause he's being the most vocal on the scenario.  Its possible that aggressive is just poor diction here, but he's certainly talking about it more than others, so I think that's what Xanth means. 

That said, though, it occurred to me that Excal has said very little, and tossed a vote on Xanth.  Not so much suspicious of him as much as I'd like to hear a little more out of him.  His case on Xanth feels like its mostly "eh, he's attacking El-Cid who despite agreeing didn't change his vote!" which...I dunno, seems weird?  Care to elaborate if there's more to it than that?

---

I would like to hear status from the mod about what's going to happen to Delta on that note. 

---

RYOGO NINJA!
AIAS = Andrew Is Always Scum.  In joke based on how Andrew always ends up being scum (or use to) in past games.
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

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Carthrat

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2009, 04:53:30 AM »
Firstly, from the signup thread...

Quote from: Delta
I am going on a residential with the school to North Wales from the 27th to the first of March. Sorry.

Looks like someone missed something, there! Replacement or modkill necessary.

<->

Secondly.

I have had nothing interesting to post until now. Also, I don't care about prodvotes on me right now, because...

Day one is too early to get mad at people for lurking. Everything that's been said about voting Delta being pointless is essentially true. It's too easy and requires no thought, and given prior play it's virtually assured that if Delta could start posting (which he can't, but nobody noticed that.) he'll soon start digging his own hole anyway. Andy does have a point about keeping lurkers in the public eye... but... this early in the game? There hasn't been time to lurk. Also don't really like how he asked Cid what an impressive opening is, since that avenue of discussion isn't going to net us scum at this point. I'm pretty ambivalent on Andy overall, though, since while I might not like a lot of what he's said, I do agree with his actual vote.

Neither Snowfire or Meeple look terribly great, for reasons already mentioned; the lack of ability to lurk and the RELENTLESS HUNTING of the same is doing Snowfire no favours, but I do find Meeple's tag onto Delta after so definitively saying he wants to stay where he is somewhat odder. Therefore,  ##Vote: Meeple

I don't really get why people (re: Excal) are upset at Xanth. Nothing else to report at this stage.

Also now that I've posted I expect all the votes on me to spontaneously pop out of existence. Hence demonstrating the ultimate silliness of prodvotes on day one. Again.

Ninja: You were trying to get discussion by voting for a person who wasn't here after tagging onto someone elses case for him. That is not discussion-prodding, Meeple!
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Carthrat

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2009, 04:57:54 AM »
Ninja 2: Geezus, Ryogo had more to say about me than either of the other two people he mentioned who'd actually made posts, including the one he's voting for! It was a jokevote earlier, too! Now it must be a real vote, but I can't understand why at all!
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Ryogo

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2009, 05:30:00 AM »
It IS day 1 and all, Carthrat. Honestly, it triggers more flags in my head if someone has said "Hi!" and then nothing; than if they've said nothing at all. Good to see you around though, really does clear up a lot of my suspicions. But not all. No one gets off free in Mafia.

And my vote on Xanth was a joke vote originally, but like I said, reaching for ideas here. It's just gut here, and its what I trust. Especially with little to no evidence to prove otherwise or towards anyone else. Especially when I don't feel the case on Meeple yet. At least for now.

Just curious though, Carthrat. What don't you understand about my vote on Xanth? Why is it something you can't wrap your head around?

As for Delta... It says he's away from Feb 27 to March 1... It's currently the 5th where I am, So I dunno if I'm missing something there, but he SHOULD be around, in theory :S

Bardiche

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2009, 06:43:10 AM »
Ok, so it seems my little prod has gotten suspicion.

In any event, I suppose this vote does absolutely nothing so...

Excal, I think he's calling El-Cid aggressive mostly cause he's being the most vocal on the scenario.  Its possible that aggressive is just poor diction here, but he's certainly talking about it more than others, so I think that's what Xanth means. 

Cited the things I find important. Anyway.

I'm keeping my vote on you for the time being. I'm... unsure what made you suddenly decide that your "prod vote" is useless. Decisiveness, as I said, is important right now, and it still feels wishy-washy what you do here.

I cited the last part because I am befuddled why you would be clearing up linguistic and/or argumentative differences between Excal and Xanth. As I feel that you should only protect someone of whose alignment you are certain, and given that townies do not know anyone's alignment but their own (I will not consider masons at this point), I find it odd for you to defend someone else and explain away their behaviour.

Xanth is perfectly capable of doing so himself.

I note you ignore Andrew's request for you to part with some information coupled with his vote on you, so I'd like to hear why you ignored it.

For those reasons my vote stays on you.

I want to mention as well that SnowFire befuddles me. The way I see it, the post firsts chastises Andrew for chasing lurkers who haven't posted, only to... chase an alleged lurker yourself. It also feels like a little panic-mongering by ascribing the various effects Delta's present behaviour could have while knowing all too well we have no way of telling which one is the relevant one.

Also, voting people for posting only once and then not again strikes me as incredibly silly since... guess what? You've effectively made two posts in this day as well, meaning you fit your own criteria for classic scum lurking behaviour!

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2009, 07:00:15 AM »
Current votecount:
Meeple (2): Cid, Bard, Andy
Eviltom (0): Bard
Carthrat (2): EvilTom, Alex, Snowfire
Snowfire (1): Xanth, Alex
El Cid (0): Meeple, Excal
Xanth (2): Ryogo, Excal
AndrewRogue (2): Strago, Cid
Delta (0): Andrew, Meeple
Bardiche (0): SnowFire

There are 17 hours left in Day One
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 10:20:21 AM by Hunter Sopko »

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2009, 07:27:13 AM »
People I'm not too happy with right now:

-Meeple. I've gone on at length about how useless it is to vote Delta at this point. Meeple's problem is doing this in a wishy-washy post that starts off saying he's not going to vote Delta and ends with him doing just that.

-Snowfire. I can see the case here, for all that it's not one I've focused on. As per Alexpost, I find it easy to read his slip-up with Bard as scum going down the list of low-posters and overlooking the most recent post in their eagerness to look like a good, lurker-hunting townie. Invoking WIFOM on Delta is also bad; by that point, speculating about the guy was pointless.

-Xanth. Last post he made was a block of metagaming. Someone acting differently than they have before shouldn't necessarily be cause for suspicion. However, if you must apply metagaming, expect to be subject to it yourself as well. In regards to that, this caught my eye:

I'm a lazy bastard who would hardly post at all if I don't make commitments ahead of time to force myself into doing it. I'm fairly sure I've done this in at least most of the other games I've played in, so this is just me being me.

Actually, that's quite the opposite of what I'm used to seeing from you. The first game I saw you in, you were a voluminous poster who pretty much ran Town. However, "Player X isn't playing like the Player X I know!" alone isn't enough to suspect someone. What really gets me about the above quote is that it reads like an excuse to maintain a minimal and restrained level of contribution, and I don't like that at all.

~

Quoth the canuck:

Of course, I'm curious as to why Cid's vote is still on Andy even while he supports Bard's case on Meeple.

Because Deltavoting really does read as an obvious scum move to me and Andy still hasn't said a lot that wasn't first posited by someone else. However, we've got just half a day left now, so I'm going to break the deadlock.

##Unvote: Andy
##Vote: Meeple

Primarily for that post at the end of the first page. See everything I've previously said about Deltavoting being a textbook scum move, then add Meeple contradicting himself within the space of one post.

Deltaflyer

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2009, 08:12:11 AM »
Apologies for my absense. I was banned from using the computer by my dad. Even now, I am sorta disobeying him.

Anyways, I will be more active from now on.

Quote from: Delta
I am going on a residential with the school to North Wales from the 27th to the first of March. Sorry.

Looks like someone missed something, there! Replacement or modkill necessary.

In case you hadn't noticed, you posted this on the 5th of March. The game STARTED on the 3rd. What.

I'll post more when I get back from school.

Oh yea, and Thank you come again!
Do I really look like I have a clue?

Excal

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2009, 08:23:02 AM »
And Delta has once again proven that somewhere down the line, his ancestry is Swiss.

Anyways, people have asked me to solidify my positions.  The thing is, I can't, really.  It's still day one, and I'm still grasping at straws trying to figure out who's not feeling right, and why I feel that way.  And, honestly, the fact is that Xanth, well.  Even when he's lazy he's adept at talking a good game.  He's not doing that, and I'm feeling that's significant somehow.  And so, my vote's on him because, hey, that might provoke something.

Not entirely sure how I feel about Cid either, given he basically did the same thing as Andy did, and used that as a reason to stay on him.  His most recent post, especially the bit about Xanth, does make me feel better, since he did put some of my worries into words.  But, eh.  Still watching him, and, just because I suspect someone doesn't mean they're not making valid points.

Not much to say on Bard, nor on Meep/Snow that wasn't said before.  And everyone else just hasn't said enough to really register.  Which, oddly, makes me wonder about Ryogo, since I know he's been posting.

EDIT: Ryogo reread, objections abated, he looks fine.  Hopefully will be back in morning for lynch.

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« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2009, 08:53:27 AM »
Okay, so day one is rather worryingly short for me now. I have like half an hour now to push as much out as I can, and then only ~5pm-6pm GMT free otherwise. Apologies for brevity on anything here and disorder, but I want to look at as much as possible.

First off, so I don't forget about it: ##VOTE: Tom

For what I see as higher profile contentless lurking, which no one's looked at otherwise (no hate for the joke stuff, mate, no worries).

At this point I would tentatively back a push on Meeple. I can't really claim any initiative there, but better to get this down now than later when my final vote goes down. I'm less worried about the vote on Delta itself as the thoroughly wet manner in which it happened, which is both the responsibility-dodging and balancing act I dislike from scum. The latest post doesn't ease it, with the only new feeler being a random poke at Excal which, while being of minor interest in itself, seems like a completely arbritrary post to comment solely on.

El Cid: no, it wasn't metagaming. That part was in defence, if anything, and I guess from this response I shouldn't have mentioned it at all. It was meant as 'I find this aggressive behaviour unsettling (in and of itself for what it is, no player context or metagaming attached). Before someone informs me, I do know this player plays aggressively anyway, but that context doesn't ease me.'

And to your own spoonful of metagaming, for what it's worth I had all of the time in the world for my first game, and it's not otherwise particularly noteworthy because I do regulate myself well enough by leaving promises all over the place. I sure don't expect (nor deserve) any different/special treatment as a result.

Can't say I'm happy that you'd make an argument against me of 'metagaming, and [metagaming here]', but hey, day one, I'm the bottom of that list, and maybe this will clear what looks to be a misunderstanding to me.


Right, go figure I'm already out of time. Don't like two votes sitting on me for admitted 'gut', Ryogo's more worrying due to quite how wavering it is despite being placed over Meeple's case (have no (well, less) problem if it's a placeholder for discussion, as mine for Tom's somewhat is - if pressed I feel worse of Meeple than Tom for the seeming lurking). Delta is still a complete non-entity after one post and should still consider being replaced if that's the level he can manage, but thanks for at least clarifying your situation. Happy with a whole bunch of you so far. Haven't actually read all of the longer posts, sucks.

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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2009, 11:51:01 AM »
Huh. I thought it was the... 27th of march. My mistake, apologies. General points of 'don't bother with lurkers this early' stands. Day 1 lurking is hard to judge until day 2.

<->

Ryogo, I don't understand your case on Xanth because there isn't one, I suppose. It feels like there is a clear reason in Meeple's play to vote him, one that you've acknowledged, whereas you're after Xanth on mostly gut, with a couple of vaugely-defined excuses, and I can't see how they top the other so much. Given that he is your original jokevote, it reads far more like laziness. Or trepidation. The "I just currently feel my vote is just as good there as it is on the other two." also seems like a copout.
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Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY ONE
« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2009, 12:42:13 PM »
Rat, your gruff and assuming attitude always makes you look scummy to me. "Now that I've posted, you'll unvote me." Well yeah. But I got you to post, when before you were not. So my efforts were not futile. Or at least I like to think that. ##Unvote: Rat

Ok, a lot of discussion on Xanth going on, so I may as well provide my 2c on the matter.


1.
The following comments relate to this post: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=3003.msg52380#msg52380
Everyone's already gone over it already, but for the sake of my thought processes -
I'm a lazy bastard who would hardly post at all if I don't make commitments ahead of time to force myself into doing it.
That's a really odd thing to say, considering previous track record, both overall here at the DL, and on this very page. Posting 3 times in the first 21 posts of the game - 1/7, a lot more than others. The evidence contradicts what you say. This is only important in that you could be setting yourself up with an excuse for lurking later, but I don't see it as a big thing.

but even in joke votes I prefer ones with a relevant-to-this-game train of thought (Meeple's is a good example of completely and utterly useless beyond as a joke vote, yet still fun and directed) than ones like Bardiche's and EvilTom's where there's nothing in-game about it (and Strago brushed by AIAS).
Useless metagame filler about who had the best jokevotes. Well, Xanth's own post here is as useless as any of the jokevotes he critisizes..


2.
Then in his post recent post
First off, so I don't forget about it: ##VOTE: Tom

For what I see as higher profile contentless lurking
If you were truly building an argument on someone, I find it unlikely you'd forget to vote for them. From the way this argument is laid out, it looks more like an attempt to justify a vote on me, rather than a vote following any real suspicion.
Secondly - High profile contentless lurking? Either lurking or posting fluff, you can't accuse me of both (and I've done neither). Really grasping at straws here to throw something at me.


3.
Others' opinions on Xanth I'd like to comment on-
The first game I saw you in, you were a voluminous poster who pretty much ran Town. [...] What really gets me about the above quote is that it reads like an excuse to maintain a minimal and restrained level of contribution, and I don't like that at all.
Xanth, well.  Even when he's lazy he's adept at talking a good game.  He's not doing that, and I'm feeling that's significant somehow.
I agree with both these positions, but I go a step further and combine them. Xanth is usually pretty pro-town, and actively so. But so far he's done nothing other than try to drag others down to buoy himself up. That's not scumhunting, that's surviving.
"It's day 1 blah blah" isn't an excuse. Whinging about it being day 1 (as filler or an excuse) is bad.


4.
Meeple/Scattergun
At this point I would tentatively back a push on Meeple.
This looks more like "if Tomtrain fails, Meeple is a sure go" - survival tactic perhaps.

Right, go figure I'm already out of time. Don't like two votes sitting on me for admitted 'gut', Ryogo's more worrying due to quite how wavering it is despite being placed over Meeple's case (have no (well, less) problem if it's a placeholder for discussion, as mine for Tom's somewhat is - if pressed I feel worse of Meeple than Tom for the seeming lurking). Delta is still a complete non-entity after one post and should still consider being replaced if that's the level he can manage, but thanks for at least clarifying your situation.
Xanth seems pretty worried about those two votes. It's also odd that he admits his vote on me is a placeholder for discussion and that he's more suspicious of Meeple - why not just vote Meeple? 'Seeming lukring' - is that imagined lurking? Wishful lurking? There's no solid stance here.

Happy with a whole bunch of you so far. Haven't actually read all of the longer posts, sucks.
Blanket statements that signify nothing are meaningless. More padding and fluff, to round out a post that lacks real content. Admitting he hasn't been reading the thread properly is also concerning, especially as a throwaway comment.


So yeah, now that I look at Xanth in detail, I can see why people are finding problems with him, and I'm agreeing. I probably won't be awake when deadline hits, so I'll be putting down a vote before I go to sleep. I want to look at everyone else first, but at this point Xanth is looking worthy of receiving a vote.


+TLDR; Xanth has been posting fluff, accusing others of posting fluff &/or lurking, and then admits he voted me as a 'placeholder', but he'd rather vote Meeple.
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