Author Topic: Simpsons Mafia GAME OVER - TOWN WIN  (Read 41839 times)

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia NIGHT THREE
« Reply #300 on: March 10, 2009, 07:41:25 PM »
The town stood... and stood... and stood... unable to come to a decision on who to lynch. The tension was palpable. Suddenly, one of them started screaming and pulled out an axe.

"Hood on! Ahm comin' ta save tha lot a yehs!"

This sudden movement generated an immediate reaction to the crowd... immediately lynching the poor groundskeeper.

"Ach. Ahm bad at this..."

And so, Groundskeeper Willie fell over dead... Upon searching his body, they found a Stonecutter's Membership Card and the real 9-1-2 telephone card. Looks like the tension of being caught got to the poor Scot. He's swimming with Nessie now.

Votecount:
Excal (2): Cid, Yoshiken, Delta, Snowfire, Rat
Yoshiken (3): Andy, Xanth, Excal, Snowfire
Andy (4): Excal, EvilTom, Yoshiken, EvilTom, Xanth, Cid
Snowfire (0): Yoshiken

Andy AKA Groundskeeper Willie, VANILLA SCUM, was lynched!

It is now Night Three. Please send in night actions.

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #301 on: March 11, 2009, 01:05:51 AM »
Principal Seymour Skinner had many enemies, as did Armin Tamzarian, his old alias. More enemies than just the Stonecutters anyway... So it's very appropriate that Seymour was discovered the next day killed twice over... an axe to the back and a bullet in the gut.

Carthrat AKA Principal Seymour Skinner, VANILLA TOWN, was killed overnight!

Day Four begins now. It ends in 48 hours.

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

EvilTom

  • Dread Thomas
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 790
  • G'day mate
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #302 on: March 11, 2009, 02:43:34 AM »
That went pretty well :D
*cheers*
Now, time to review meeple/andy/X teams. Assuming lone scum now.
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #303 on: March 11, 2009, 02:50:26 AM »
At work so this will be short.  Cid looks better.  Yoshi too.  Of the four I was looking at yesterday Andy = scum, Rat = dead, Yoshi = town, and just Snow remains.  Still want to double check, but feel good about this.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #304 on: March 11, 2009, 03:20:19 AM »
Interesting.  So Andy was scum.  This makes a fair amount of sense - seems El Cid was on point about Andy's posts.

Reconstructing Day 1's events...  Andy votes for Delta.  Meeple immediately hops on board, perhaps overzealously (or perhaps this was planned to give Andy credit later should Meeple ever be lynched?).  Andy turns around and starts viciously attacking Meeple, and to a lesser extent me and later Xanth.  When decision time comes... yeah, especially before the copclaim, it would have looked strange to switch over.  Andy then generally tosses flames around to see what sticks.

Also, preemptive reply to Yoshiken: You seemed very convinced that I was scum yesterday, voting for me and still advocating against me.  You also suggested the Snow/Andy/Meeple combo, so I expect to be criticized again.  That said, I just did some archive diving...  is there anything in specific you want me to answer for?  Most of your thoughts I feel were addressed in a somewhat reasonable way, but even towards the end you made it clear I was your number 1 suspect though not really offering much up behind it.

General thoughts:
Things look very good for the town.  Assuming 3 scum, which seems very likely...  El Cid has risen even farther in towniness.  If El Cid and Andy both hopped on the anti-Meeple train, then bravo for courage, but....   yeah.  And El Cid hammered Andy when he had such an easy excuse to hammer a townie instead.

Xanth remains "likely town" from the Day1 shenanigans, also hopped on Andy train yesterday.  EvilTom is pretty much confirmed town.

Yoshiken voted for Andy when this didn't have to happen and the move to seriously lynch him came late.  And Yoshiken was around to switch his vote, too, which could probably be defended fairly easily.  While I can't agree with Yoshiken's thoughts, he seems much more likely to be town today.  Since there's still an active cop I really have a hard time believing that the scum would just throw away what's likely half their team.

Delta is still a wildcard.

That leaves....  Excal.  Hmm.  Seems like most of the logic worked out on Day 3 still holds.  In reply to El Cid's query...  the reason I switched from Excal off to Yoshiken was mostly a gut thing from the morning.  I figured that both were about equally likely to be scum, and Yoshiken had made some suspicious arguments and also attacked somebody I was pretty certain to be town (me).  Excal, meanwhile, seemed to be trying to genuinely help the town out toward the end when he thought he'd be lynched.  Obviously possibly an act, but so it goes.

EvilTom

  • Dread Thomas
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 790
  • G'day mate
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #305 on: March 11, 2009, 03:37:43 AM »
Okay, quick re-read of thread provides me with ##Vote Excal
It's him or snow, but I think it's him.
Kudos to Excal for keeping alive for so long if he's scum (which I think he is).
If not, it's Snow tomorrow.

Suspicions on Xanth cleared from end of yesterday, I've always thought Cid was town, Rat is dead, I'm Town, Yoshi is cleared from end of yesterday... down to Excal and Snow.
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

Xanth

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Girls go on dates on Valentine's Day?
    • View Profile
Bracken Ferret Monitor
« Reply #306 on: March 11, 2009, 05:48:54 AM »
Okay, so I wasn't expecting that. You'll notice that Rat was killed twice. It's the middle of the night here and I only got up to check if the game had ended or not, but I'd like to point out that the bullet was from me, as I am Maggie Simpson - a one shot vigilante. I did bread crumb this, but in a way that'll take half an hour to quote, so please wait until morning for that.

In any case, I was hoping that would remove any remaining doubts in people's minds of my allegiance, if the whole swing to Andy wasn't already enough. With assumedly one scum and three attempts left, we really should win now. Night night.

EvilTom

  • Dread Thomas
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 790
  • G'day mate
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #307 on: March 11, 2009, 05:51:27 AM »
...huh.

That, or scum were roleblocked, or the doc succeded, or who knows. Weird.
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

Xanth

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Girls go on dates on Valentine's Day?
    • View Profile
Pack Fencer Holiday
« Reply #308 on: March 11, 2009, 05:54:19 AM »
Tom:

Seymour was discovered the next day killed twice over... an axe to the back and a bullet in the gut.

Bullet from me, axe from the stone cutter. I was initially hoping that seeing only one kill down meant that we could clear someone else as well from doctoring or something, but this seems rather particularly worded.

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #309 on: March 11, 2009, 06:07:01 AM »
I'm trying really hard not to be weirded out by that flavor text. "Killed twice." What. Anyway, onwards to more serious stuff.

Knowing two-thirds of the scum team gives us a lot of information to work with (I'm assuming there's only one scum player left; three total is the typical amount for a game this size). Immediate repurcussions of Andy's flip, for example?

-Xanth looks a lot better. Made a push to get Andy in the running at the last minute, and his vote brought about the tie that eventually led to Andy's lynch. If Xanth was the third scum, he could've easily stuck with Yoshi or Excal and not looked bad for it at all. So Xanth's pretty much off the books at this point as far as I'm concerned.

-Yoshi benefits from this as well. If Yoshi was the third scum, he could've easily gone with Excal's lynch with no negative repurcussions. Survival vote + Excal being suspected by a number of people and the runner-up for votes at that time. I wouldn't necessarily call him cleared, but he's certainly less of a suspect.

You know, for all that I bitched about three-way sudden death yesterday, it's paid unexpected dividends. Man. Anyway, surviving players break down as follows:

Xanth/Tom/Delta: Effectively cleared of suspicion. See above for Xanth, Tom has Alex's roleclaim and subsequent flip going for him, and Delta...well, yes, I'm going back to him voting Meeple on day one. But we now know for sure that there was a scum player stuck on Meeple's train (Andy). It would be insane for both of Meeple's comrades to be boosting his votecount that early, especially since...yeah, again, it was Delta's vote that pushed Meeple in the lead at a time when one or two vote totals were common. So, barring the craziest gambit ever or a totally uncoordinated scum team (and I think I've made it clear that I default to simpler explanations than either of those theories), Delta's looking solidly townie to me.

So, on to the suspects. First, I'd like to quote Snowfire's post from yesterday wherein he broke day one's events down into two scenarios, because it's easier than explaining it all again myself. (Yes, I am quoting someone who's not totally cleared in order to support my own arguments, but I believe that the analysis herein is sound and, moreover, can be applied to Snowfire himself anyway).

Let's assume that there are 3 scum in the game (if there are 4, then the scum totally failed it up on Day1).  I'm also going to assume that Xanth is not scum, as if he is then headaches ensue.  Scenario A: Both the other scum did in fact try to cover for Meeple.  This is a bright line leading to both Excal / YoshiStrago, as Excal voted for Xanth and Strago was absent.  Scenario B: One of the scum was on the Meeple train early when he didn't think it would take off.  Then, either due to genuine inactivity or the fact that it would look too suspicious to flip, their vote stayed on Meeple the length of Day1.  The second scum was supposed to cover for Meeple.

Scenario A has now been demonstrated to be impossible, since only one of Yoshi/Snowfire/Excal (the living players with either a vote on not!Meeple or no active vote at all) can be scum and that situation calls for two. We now know that scenario B is at least partially true--there was a scum player stuck on Meeple (Andy). Given that, it makes perfect sense that the third scum would be trying to push a case on someone else to save him. So, we look at Xanth votes: Ryogo is dead, Tom is effectively cleared, Excal winds up being the odd man out. For the sake of thoroughness, though, I'll examine everyone.

Yoshi/Snowfire: Not perfectly cleared, but various circumstances make me less likely to believe they're scum at this point. Yoshi, for example? While yesterday's drawing to a close, he sticks with the player he thinks is scum even though it might cost him his own life. And he turns out to be right about it. Also...guess who Andy's vote was on yesterday? Right, Yoshi.

If Snowfire was scum, then he had a perfectly justifiable chance to lynch Xanth (and, in effect, save Meeple) day one and utterly failed to act on it. For all my reminders that scum are as fallible as town, even I have a hard time believing this one. Snowfire was around for sudden death, he did have time to hammer Xanth if he was inclined to do so. Instead, he...tries to back off both Meeple and Xanth and vote for Tom instead. I find it extraordinarily unlikely that scum would do this when one of their own (and a power role at that) hangs in the balance.

Excal: I've touched on this a little in the above paragraphs, but: process of elimination makes him a likely candidate, severe lurking the first two days makes him a likely candidate, being on two trains that have turned out to target virtually confirmed townies makes him a likely candidate. Add in his attack on Andy yesterday, which seems like a last ditch effort to draw battle lines between the two of them so that we won't link them together. Andy never responded to Excal on this matter. We've seen this kind of slip before in this very game: Andy/Meeple on day one. And Excal himself didn't stick with the case. In the end he went with...Yoshi. The same person Andy was voting on.

##Vote: Excal

EDIT: Tripleninja, doesn't change much.

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #310 on: March 11, 2009, 06:09:56 AM »
Wait...Just saw the bit with Xanth's roleclaim. Xanth, I have to wonder: why Carthrat? I'd pretty much considered Rat cleared once Andy flipped scum (same reasons as Delta, basically).

EvilTom

  • Dread Thomas
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 790
  • G'day mate
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #311 on: March 11, 2009, 06:24:00 AM »
Ah yeah I didn't read the flavourtext. Not that I'm suspicious, but yeah, why Rat?
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #312 on: March 11, 2009, 06:39:07 AM »
So, Cid.  Would it have looked better if I had said screw living a second time and decided to stick with my guns?  After all, if Yoshi wasn't convinced enough to run for Andy, odds were good I was fried.

Anyways, I'm not sure there's a heck of a lot else for me to say.  I think Snow looks the worst of those remaining, but everyone else besides me has one thing very much in their camp, and I regretfully do have to admit that I don't.  Which also means that aside from what I've already said, I've currently got nothing.

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #313 on: March 11, 2009, 06:55:29 AM »
So, Cid.  Would it have looked better if I had said screw living a second time and decided to stick with my guns?  After all, if Yoshi wasn't convinced enough to run for Andy, odds were good I was fried.

No. But pointing out that you refrained from doing something suicidal does not automatically prove that what you did do was in town's interest.

Xanth

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Girls go on dates on Valentine's Day?
    • View Profile
Gargoyle Founder Construction
« Reply #314 on: March 11, 2009, 07:04:48 AM »
well, I seem to be unable to get back to sleep, so let's get through this.

My bread-crumbing was in the post subject nonsense I shove with every post. Seemed like a good way to get people paranoid in the future.

Links to the post in question with each part:

Gerbil Tan Skill
Monopole Tagline Gandhi
Master Pan Stew
Pepper Goomba Knight

Oaken Knot Brandy
Plaintiff Radical Pinch

WHAT WHAT WHAT
Anew Airplane Errata

Where the original plan was to kill Andy, then I got cold feet about that and changed my mind to Yoshi in the case that Excal was lynched (yeah, couldn't think of a good way of camouflaging 'lynch' in that time frame, so just went with a rhyme), and then the last minute craziness had me rethink ten layers of what the hell was going on.


And why Rat? I guess I just wasn't seeing him nearly as town as you are, based on assumedly the too-many-votes-on-Meeple thing? Whilst Andy flipping scum lessened the charges on Rat (more so because it'd be odd for scum to be acting so alike), I was unconvinced that the vote on Meeple wasn't just too early and just was badly timed for removal, which combined with low presence and some really, really odd comments, in particular the whole 'let's vote for Ryogo even if we're sure he's going to be modkilled' thing, which I really, really couldn't get my head around as a town thought.

In short, because he was next down my list given Andy died, Yoshi's cleared immensely and I'm as edgy as ever about the Excal case.


I can only assume that scum went for him over Tom (or myself - I was fairly worried that the Andy swing might combine with my admission to having a power might get me NKed instead) because they were expecting to hit a power role, because otherwise I'm boggled by the preference of NK target. Thrilled (one more lynch than I was expecting us to get), but boggled.

And now to try to sleep again. Next post from me should be about where my lines lead me next, which I really shouldn't do when I'm not completely conscious. What I need to do is take a deep breath and take a long, solid view at Snow to convince myself one way or the other. Excal's the obvious lynch if I really can't find anyone else at fault, but I'm still not behind it.

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #315 on: March 11, 2009, 07:15:25 AM »
Sigh...  Cid, I know you think I'm scum.  I know I can't do anything to convince you otherwise besides letting you see my flip, and I want to try and put that off as long as I can.  But I would like to say that, for some odd reason, the way you're putting it is getting really, really, damn aggrivating.

So I'd appreciate it if you'd lay off just a bit instead of feeling a need to reiterate that in every single post.

And yeah, I'm sure you'll find some way to turn this back around on me.  But I'd like to get this out in the open for everyone else instead of just getting more and more snarky for no easily apparent reason.

Excal

  • Chibi Terror That Flaps in the Night
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2603
  • Let's Get Adorable
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #316 on: March 11, 2009, 07:31:05 AM »
Oh yeah, don't think I said this yet.  Tom, if I am scum, then I deserve absolutely no kudos for surviving this far.  Day 2 I did jack all to save myself, and Day 3 my grand strategy was to...  do everything to bus my last remaining scum mate that I could possibly think of.  Might be alright for personal survival, sure.  But that's one hell of a losing strategy.

Xanth

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 282
  • Girls go on dates on Valentine's Day?
    • View Profile
Rain Stereo Pilot
« Reply #317 on: March 11, 2009, 12:32:44 PM »
Right, well, I was supposed to be busy this morning, but fate continues to conspire to get me to spend as much time as possible here. So sure, let's work on the main post now.

Tom is clear. Even without the mason endorsement I'd trust him.

Yoshi is basically clear.

Delta is basically clear. The only way I can see scumDelta working is if there was a plan to give him major credit by being in such town/scum decisions and heading towards scum twice, which is unlikely to say the least.

Cid... I still can't bring myself to vote for him. Niggling doubts here and there, but I don't think I can genuinely bring myself to back them. Mostly silly crap that I can't even bring myself to mention.


So yes, if this went to the final three and I was somehow still around, then I'd be choosing between Delta and Cid at that point. I would struggle immensely to put one over the other at this point, but cutely I'm pretty sure we'll get enough information between now and then to make the distinction more obvious should it be needed, which it hopefully won't.

For now, though, this does leave Excal and Snow at the top of the pile. The two guys I keep on defending.

Excal, as what is becoming a running gag, continues to raise points that make me doubt him, even as I sit here in my tin-foil hat screaming 'I WANT TO BELIEVE'. The latest is his claim of why his day three actions would be terrible as scum - I counter that if you were expecting to go down in flames that day then it would be perfectly reasonable to throw ire at your scumbuddy before acting to save yourself in order to distance yourself from him. Sure it makes less sense if you actually expect him to get lynched, but then who saw that lynch coming?

Even then, even now, thinking of Excal as scum gives me headaches. I just can't see it. It's just one gigantic mess if true. It reads like he's dependent on other people keeping him in, and there's just patently no chance for survival that way since people are running out of suspects far too quickly. Even I, number one member of his fan club this game, am struggling not to vote him on the basis of 'well, there's no one else to vote for' at this point.


Which does leave us with only Snow to consider. The thing is, the main evidence holding back on him is the sudden death activity on day one, and I'm wondering just how much that can cover if we work from the thought that it didn't matter who Snow voted for at that point given that my death looked inevitable even without the interjection. If I can't bring myself to trust him completely over that, then my opinion drops a ton. This clearly deserves a thorough combing later on in the day when I have the time, but when the first thing I spot on skimming Snow's posts is:

AndrewRogue: Not sure if I'm as against him as El Cid; yesterday was Saturday after all, and any player (scum or town) would probably have switched their vote if they'd been genuinely active.  And EvilTom was already out of the woods as far as being lynched.  The one notable exception to this scenario...  a scumteam with Meeple/Andy/Excal.  In that case, pretending inactivity and letting Ryogo get lynched would be in his interest (as swapping to Ryogo would look a bit odd).  In other words, if we lynch Excal and he flips scum, AndrewRogue will look really evil.  Otherwise, he's at a similar level to, say, Carth (both on the Meeple train Day1, both somewhat quiet Day2).

I'm immediately worried. Lynch Excal and if he comes up town then Andy looks a lot better? Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch.

I will reassess this later in the day with a full examination of Snow for the first time in a while, but for now my intention is clearly:

##Vote: Snowfire

EvilTom

  • Dread Thomas
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 790
  • G'day mate
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #318 on: March 11, 2009, 02:54:17 PM »
Snow huh. I have been suspicious of him.
Looks like we're waiting on Delta/Yoshi to see if the scales tip.
This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.

Yoshiken

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2068
  • Yay!
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #319 on: March 11, 2009, 04:18:20 PM »
Wow. I definitely was not expecting a Rat-kill from scum. o_O  I was still quite suspicious of Rat, so I guess that clears that one up...

I've been thinking about this for quite a while today and, unfortunately, most of my thoughts have already been stated. (Mostly the parts with: Excal saying Andy looked more suspicious than me, then voting me, which he's already argued against, and my thoughts yesterday on Andy & Snow/Rat for remaining scum.)

Obviously, I still have some doubts on Excal. Mostly stemming from the post yesterday, as well as the arguments over the previous days...
Snow, again, no more than I've mentioned previous days.
I'm really not sure if killing Rat was clever or stupid of scum - sure, they took out a suspicious player w/o a role, but they're confusing the hell out of us, it seems.

I'm... gonna have to see how things develop. It's good that we have a few days left - 7 players and assumedly only 1 scum. I'd be interested to see how roles are playing out now... One of my main thoughts today was that I'd return to find a cop claim saying someone was scum and that would be the end of it, but it seems I was wrong about that. Which led to me picking up on one particular line that hasn't been mentioned yet...

Since there's still an active cop I really have a hard time believing that the scum would just throw away what's likely half their team.
Interesting. We aren't actually certain there's even a cop involved, are we? Unless I've missed something major here.

Oh, and that led me to find...
Also, preemptive reply to Yoshiken: You seemed very convinced that I was scum yesterday, voting for me and still advocating against me.  You also suggested the Snow/Andy/Meeple combo, so I expect to be criticized again.  That said, I just did some archive diving...  is there anything in specific you want me to answer for?  Most of your thoughts I feel were addressed in a somewhat reasonable way, but even towards the end you made it clear I was your number 1 suspect though not really offering much up behind it.
Firstly, I'll clarify that I did say that you, Rat & Excal all remained suspicious. Excal managed to clear a lot of that suspicion through posts that just seemed townish - you even said that yourself here.
With Rat dead, of course, you're right that that would make you seem most suspicious... but now I'm back to thinking about Excal. Why? Mostly through elimination - although Delta's still not clear in my books.
Excal & Snow were two of my main suspects throughout, so I'm back to that.
For now, this post is getting too long, so I'll leave my comments on the events here for now and post back later with main suspicions and reasons.

Yoshiken

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2068
  • Yay!
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #320 on: March 11, 2009, 06:37:34 PM »
Votecount:
Excal (1)- Cid
Snowfire (1)- Yoshiken

There are 30 hours left in Day Four.

Was Xanth, not me. ^^

Hunter Sopko

  • Heavily in Debt
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4556
  • Hai, Kazuma-desu
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #321 on: March 11, 2009, 06:43:51 PM »
My bad.

Insert Quote
Votecount:
Excal (2)- EvilTom, Cid
Snowfire (1)- Xanth

There are 30 hours left in Day Four.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 08:32:41 PM by Hunter Sopko »

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #322 on: March 11, 2009, 07:01:20 PM »
Quick correction to votecount: Tom also has a vote on Excal.

Other stuff incoming.

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Simpsons Mafia DAY FOUR
« Reply #323 on: March 11, 2009, 08:42:20 PM »
So I'd appreciate it if you'd lay off just a bit instead of feeling a need to reiterate that in every single post.

You're asking me to stop pursuing someone who I believe has a mountain of evidence in favor of their being scum. I see no good reason to do this and you should know how silly the request is. You're the top suspect and I will continue to pursue you because, well, that's the game, man. Also: I've got all of three posts down today. In reverse order: one is a note to the mod that the votecount is wrong; one is a direct response to a question by you; the first, however, is an exhaustive analysis of the surviving players. You make it sound as though I only talk about you and have been working in a vacuum. This is patently untrue. Also, if you make a post directed squarely at me, expect me to respond to it. Asking me to leave you alone and then getting upset when I respond directly to that request would be entrapment and a blatant attempt to invoke a persecution complex.

Explain what about my presentation is aggrivating, please. "Some odd reason" is vague and gives me little to work with. Quotes and examples, please. I asked about this yesterday and you never answered. I am confident that I've done nothing but examine facts in a clinical fashion. What I really think is going on here is that you're running an appeal to emotion and trying to paint yourself as a victim, perhaps drawing a parallel to Tom vs. Xanth on day two. This is inaccurate. I've made it explicitly clear why I suspect you, drawing on low presence, voting records, being present on bad trains, and more. If people find flaws in my logic they are welcome to point them out, but presenting yourself as a martyr is not the proper response.

I believe this is an impression that you are cultivating intentionally because it helped you survive on day three, particularly in regards to Snowfire and Yoshi. It's because of this that I feel the need to direct some of my commentary at them.

~

So, Snowfire and Yoshi: please read in detail my opening post from this day. Alert me if you find any inconsistencies or oversights. Make every possible effort not to factor in emotional responses; it sounds cold, but they do not help us find scum. I've been seeing a lot of talk from you guys to the extent that Excal looks better for his behavior on day three, but completely without citations of specific arguments or posts. Just general impressions of "towniness." Personally, I don't put much stock in gut reactions. I stopped paying attention to my own a long time ago because they were always wrong. (I'd also note, again, that none of this behavior happened until after Excal had almost died day two and been hit with substantial criticism from several different people. This is not town play. Excal play on day one/two was remarkably similar to Andy's during that period, and lynching Andy for that netted us scum yesterday.)

Anyone, of any alignment, can profess that they're town and that we'll be sorry if we lynch them; such protestations are fundamentally meaningless because it makes sense for either alignment to make them. Someone being defensive doesn't prove that they're town; someone getting riled up doesn't prove that they're being unjustly persecuted. Meeple pulled this act day one just before sudden death. Meeple was scum. You cannot rely on emotional reactions to determine someone's alignment, because scum can and will exploit your perceptions of such at every opportunity. I'd ask you to take a close look at the facts as presented in my first post of today and give me your input on whether or not my analysis is sound. I firmly believe that it is, but I don't seem to have been reaching you guys. So: I formally request you take time to read through it (even if you have already) and respond to me with regard to its flaws and merits. Do your best to set aside preconceptions based on gut reactions, look at my arguments in depth and consult the record to ascertain their validity.

Sierra

  • N I G H T M A R E E Y E S
  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5135
  • Go get dead, angel face
    • View Profile
Re: Rain Stereo Pilot
« Reply #324 on: March 11, 2009, 08:59:32 PM »
Even then, even now, thinking of Excal as scum gives me headaches. I just can't see it. It's just one gigantic mess if true. It reads like he's dependent on other people keeping him in, and there's just patently no chance for survival that way since people are running out of suspects far too quickly. Even I, number one member of his fan club this game, am struggling not to vote him on the basis of 'well, there's no one else to vote for' at this point.

What precisely doesn't mesh in your mind, Xanth? Day one/two make a lot of sense to me with scum Excal. Beyond that? Again, you assume far too much on the basis of scum always being at the top of their game. We already know the scum team has effed up royally in this very game. See: Meeple making a bad vote for obviously bad reasons, having the wrath of town fall on him as a result; Andy's vote being stuck on Meeple because he was away while the Meeple case picked up steam. Things don't always go their way and they often have to improvise to make the best of a bad situation.

Please, stop discounting ideas just because they mean scum wouldn't be following an ideal course of action. Scum do whatever it takes to survive; they don't always have a grand master plan, because sometimes circumstances don't give them the time to formulate one. After Excal's day two, whatever kept him alive would've been attractive, even if it meant relying on the goodwill of townies (which, seriously, is something scum want anyway). You're running yourself in circles here. Eliminate the "Scum don't make mistakes" mindset and take a fresh look at things.