Author Topic: DLCon 4: Games (Read 10056 times)

VySaika · « **Reply #50 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:44:38 AM »

Still a far superior destination then the closet.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #51 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:18:29 AM »

I'd also vote MvC over KoF anything.

Though it's still more like this to me: BlazBlue >>>>>> MvC > GG > another SF game > SO3 > KoF

I hope the secret game is Valkyrie Fight Tag.

-Djinn

metroid composite · « **Reply #52 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:06:42 AM »

Quote from: SageAcrin on March 17, 2009, 02:15:06 AM

I wouldn't say any of us have a reputation for being really good at Smash, as in tournament-level play, in general, unless I missed something. Pretty much anyone that's taken out a Touhou Lunatic is in the top 10% of players by definition; We have multiple people that are going to be there that have. (Also Yakko's unrealistically good at PoFV, IIRC he's 1cced Lunatic with Tewi.)

Several of us are low-tournament level at Smash; from all I've heard Alex generally gets out of the early rounds, and I've beaten a few tournament players 1v1 (nobody well-known). Excal went reasonably far the one time he was in a tourney (Excal being about Elfboy level).

I mean, there's high-level players who would crush us in Smash, but there's high-level players who would crush us in PoFV too...they just all live in Japan (the PoFV metagame in North America isn't really big enough to produce super high-level players). It's probably a similar range of "a lot of us have 100+ hours on Smash"/"a lot of us have 100+ hours on Touhou". It's a lot, but when a game has a strong tournament scene, the best players tend to have 1,000+ hours, and spend most of that time practicing against similarly experienced opponents.

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bomb mechanics and general playstyle is not going to be intuitive at all to people(Charging bombs, manual bombing being a terrible idea except when it isn't, how your attacks effect the opposite screen.)

Like I said, I managed to take a game off of Laggy when I knew nothing of these mechanics (never focused, never charged). Yeah, it helps to know the mechanics, but "OMG just dodge stuff" works too.

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...'sides, someone would have to bring it and install it on a computer there, and does Meeple even have a computer that's in any reasonable position to be used for this? A laptop wouldn't realistically work, too small of a screen.

That's a reasonable point, although if we have two laptops we can just ethernet them (which is how Laggy and I usually PoFV each other; besides monitor concerns it lets us both use a keyboard). In fact...weren't there two Touhou laptops at DLC3?

Grefter · « **Reply #53 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:50:37 AM »

There was, but I don't think they were fully functioning even nearby until after the Lan was over and Laggy and OK's laptops were being dicked with before OK's flight (CRUCIO!) and I don't think we ever got Touhou installed on my laptop for people to PoFV against each other... Laggy's house with his laptop and desktop happened though now that I think of it.

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Blazblu comparisons to Smash

Now I am completely sold on not buying this. Cool.

Xeroma · « **Reply #54 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:46:58 AM »

? As someone who has played both I can state with honesty that Blazblue and Smash aren't even remotely similar. You've played GG right Gref? It's kinda like that but with a somewhat slower gameplay pace, 1 less button, and some different mechanics[namely, false roman cancels are gone]. Also less characters, only 12.

Xeroma · « **Reply #55 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:47:26 AM »

Although I can't post a major post right now[will later today], I will state that KoFXII will not be part of the tournament lineup, after having discussed this with people and received feedback. What will replace it? Well, that's something I'm gonna have to poll you guys on later. Stay tuned!

Grefter · « **Reply #56 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:07:32 PM »

Well , still bring the game anyway I say, there should be enough interest from some at the Con that will at least be interested in looking at it if you have it on hand Xer.

DjinnAndTonic · « **Reply #57 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:42:45 PM »

Quote from: Grefter on March 17, 2009, 09:50:37 AM

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Blazblu comparisons to Smash

Now I am completely sold on not buying this. Cool.

Whoa! Smash and BlazBlue are not similar fighting games.

I said they are similar in that knowing simply the basics of the controls can put a beginner player within the realm of beating someone who can pull off the ridiculous 20-button "Mad I-No Skill" abilities. It's just well-balanced and easy to pick-up and play. The experienced player still has the advantage, but the beginner need not feel intimidated.

The only mechanics similarity I can think of between Smash and BlazBlue is that holding a direction and pressing an attack button will produce different moves. But there are still plenty of QCFs and ridiculous button-string combos like GG. They're just less necessary to play competitively.

-Djinn

Xeroma · « **Reply #58 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:03:10 AM »

Just because it's not part of the tourney doesn't mean I won't bring it.

Also Djinn, command normals[that is, holding a direction and hitting a button] is nothing new. Even SF2 Super Turbo had some of those.

Anyhow.... I just had a big talk with Alex last night and got some ideas that I feel I should talk about.

First off, the game to replace KoFXII in the tourney. While Marvel has been suggested, Alex actually said he was surprised that I didn't have GG/Blazblue at all, and even gave a decent enough reason. So, I need to ask you all, what would you prefer?

On the one hand, most people here are familiar enough with what Marvel is and how to do things in it.

On the other hand, Blazblue is newer, prettier, and has much more style. It's made by a similar team to Guilty Gear, though it is a bit easier to pick up at a basic level. Since most people here don't know what it is, I'll post some vids showing it off. Should note, the game plays smoother than Youtube makes it look because for some reason Youtube lowers the FPS count/picture quality. Even HD videos don't look exactly right!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbmSFSsOr24&fmt=18 [The NINJA TICK Bang vs. Noel Vermillion. Wait, guns aren't supposed to work like that...]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlByDjRYdSI&NR=1&fmt=18 [Hakumen vs. Ragna. Wait, I thought this was Guilty Gear, not Samurai Showdown.]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttBxSAn3Pgo&fmt=18 [Rachel vs. Carl. Yes, Rachel does fight with a sentient umbrella. Not pictured: Electrical frogs, electrical pumpkins, lightning rods.]

Whatever gets the most reccomendations gets in, so put your vote in now!

----

On the next topic, I've been thinking about the reccomendations for PoFV, and Alex argued that I'd be able to fit it in making this a 6 game tourney. I'd have to run it on the side of another game just so it doesn't take too much time, but the fortunate part is that PoFV matches won't take very long. However, I want to see what you guys think of this first. Should I add in PoFV, making this a six game tourney, or should it stay out?

----

Finally, I know you're reading all this Andy. Could you bring your PS3[and make sure you buy Blazblue]? I get the feeling DLers wouldn't like playing on 360 pad so much for fighters, so if we could have an alternative that'd be wonderful.

And on a final note, I'm thinking of having this tourney on the third day of the con. I was thinking to set some time aside on the second day to get the rest of the registrations and, more importantly, show people the games in the tourney and teach them the basics if they are unfamiliar with it. Would be more fun for everyone if people at least had a very basic fundamental grasp on the games[IE; How to do a Focus Attack or how to do an Ultra Combo in SF4.]. Everyone cool with that?

metroid composite · « **Reply #59 on:** March 18, 2009, 01:33:01 AM »

Seems weird to go two con tournaments without trying a Guilty Gear-style game, as the series does have fans around here (hell, even I find it entertaining, for all that I don't know any of the mechanics and just play May and spam heavy slash. Anchor to the face! This strategy has worked better than it has any real right to, actually...).

If it flops it can get the VF4 treatment and just not come back.

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On the next topic, I've been thinking about the reccomendations for PoFV, and Alex argued that I'd be able to fit it in making this a 6 game tourney. I'd have to run it on the side of another game just so it doesn't take too much time, but the fortunate part is that PoFV matches won't take very long. However, I want to see what you guys think of this first. Should I add in PoFV, making this a six game tourney, or should it stay out?

I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting here. If it's "have two games running at the same time with PoFV on PC and the others on console" then...

Here's the thing: part of what made the fighting game tournament successful is that it was a break from the norm; instead of 4 people in one room playing melee, 4 people in another room playing melee, a couple of people playing some variety of touhou on the PC, and 4 people in a corner playing Hearts, the tournament provided...two people playing, and 20 people watching going "ooh" "ahh". I wouldn't want to dilute this by splitting people's attention between two games.

The place to cut corners is to have more than one station with the same game (to get through the early rounds--semis/finals are hopefully exciting enough to play one at a time). Though...actually that might be hard for PoFV (FOUR laptops???) Then again, early rounds of PoFV might go fast anyway.

Xeroma · « **Reply #60 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:26:27 AM »

Mmm, you have a point there. Still, PoFV wouldn't take as long as the usual game on average, so I may be able to fit it in regardless.

SageAcrin · « **Reply #61 on:** March 18, 2009, 05:17:31 PM »

PoFV looks kinda unfeasible due to what Meeple said, unless I'm missing something.

I mean, unless we want to do it on a laptop. Someone would have to controller play though, which is a handicap for a lot of people. Squeezing two people onto the laptop there would be unfeasible.

Of course, if there's two laptops and a LAN style connection, that should work fine.

Edit:

PoFV matches take one minute a round, two minutes total, assuming one person does nothing but get constantly hit by every attack over Touhou Easy level and bombs at least occasionally.

I've had single rounds-not matches, rounds-against Alex run up to 3:30, although that's rare. Couple of minutes is pretty common though.

metroid composite · « **Reply #62 on:** March 18, 2009, 08:07:33 PM »

Sage is correct about the time stuff; PoFV has several mechanics that keep matches from just ending immediately, namely:

* The longer you go undamaged, the more damage you take when you do get hit.
* Shots start out relatively sparse, and get denser as the match goes on.

Granted, these are both manipulatable through settings. There's sudden death mode where everyone starts with 1 health. The shots can be set to start on the heaviest density (lunatic). But...the defaults on these are both very good settings to have for newer players.

So assuming no messing with such settings...2:00 for early matches, and probably around 5:00 for the finals seems like a decent ballpark assumption (roughly the same time as Brawl matches, for comparison--I mean, it's not "Star Ocean 3 Versus", but I wouldn't expect it to be faster than fighting games either).

Xeroma · « **Reply #63 on:** March 18, 2009, 08:14:39 PM »

Mmmm. I really need more people commenting on this then. It would tack on quite a bit of time if so, and there's the issue of the laptops. Can't run it if we don't have two laptops sufficient enough to run it on LAN. So at BEST it will be a maybe, I think.

metroid composite · « **Reply #64 on:** March 19, 2009, 01:25:37 AM »

Quote from: Xeroma on March 18, 2009, 08:14:39 PM

Mmmm. I really need more people commenting on this then. It would tack on quite a bit of time if so, and there's the issue of the laptops. Can't run it if we don't have two laptops sufficient enough to run it on LAN. So at BEST it will be a maybe, I think.

Mmm...well here's some more data to chew on--random Japanese site with PoFV videos of various skill levels--the video length ranges from 2:00 to 6:00:

http://movie.teacup.com/search?kw=PoFV

Longest match I know of is about 8:00, but that's because someone used Youmu (very defence-oriented character that very few people seem to be able to use effectively at all).

Xeroma · « **Reply #65 on:** March 19, 2009, 01:37:46 AM »

Because of in-game time limits most FGs take a lot less time than that unless they're put to best 3 out of 2 out of 3. Mrf.

I still don't have a decisive answer on the situation with Blazblue vs. Marvel, but I am leaning a lot towards BB at the moment.

metroid composite · « **Reply #66 on:** March 19, 2009, 04:47:13 AM »

On fighting game playtime....

Mmm...searching "SF4 Finals" I get this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCHik2hEIrk
7:20, but there's actually two matches there, so 3:40 each.

Brawl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZUeMICd0lI
7:50, though again two matches, so 4:00 each

BlazBlue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxoLBk3AJ4M
9:10, but three matches, so 3:00 each.

The average is fairly close between these games and PoFV. I know VF4E is a bit of an outlier compared to these, (shorter), so...oh right, I should check Soul Calibur--maybe it's a 3D thing.

Soul Calibur 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnL0xJPg0dQ
9:30 for three matches, so 3:10, but they have three stock each, so probably more like 2:10 or something.

Granted, these are good players; casual games will take longer in some cases (I know VF4:E tends to take longer for newbies, and BlazBlue looks like it will too as they were comboing all the time) and casual will be shorter for some other games (PoFV, Brawl--games where most of the mechanics are defensive).

Yakumo · « **Reply #67 on:** March 19, 2009, 05:51:17 AM »

I seriously think you're overthinking this stuff. >_> Pick some games that you think will be fun for people who aren't huge fighting game fans. Don't bother with PoFV, partly because it would be a pain to get it running at all, partly because there's going to be a huge gap between people who play Touhou at all and people who don't, and partly because this is supposed to be a fighting game tourney and that's not a fighting game. Frankly, I would expect people to be less likely to want to pick up something like PoFV than a fighting game they've never played, if only because most fighters have at least some basic things in common but there are virtually no versus shooters, and you're already planning to drop KoF because you don't think people are going to want to try and pick that up from scratch.

Xeroma · « **Reply #68 on:** March 19, 2009, 06:06:28 AM »

Yeah, I've had more people tell me it's a bad idea than people telling me it's a good idea. It'll stay out, then. If people still want to get PoFV up and running at the con though I don't think anyone will stop them though. Hell I'd even be willing to play some >_>;

And.... mmm, yeah, gonna put in Blazblue instead of Marvel, barring it not coming out in time[it's out in June last I heard? somewhere in that range, SHOULD be out then]. I've had enough good arguements given to me for including it.

Despite that though, it would be cool if you brought a file with everything unlocked in Marvel OK.

Grefter · « **Reply #69 on:** March 19, 2009, 10:32:46 PM »

If I am coming I can pack 2 CFW PSPs and a laptop that should be able to run Touhou that I might be able to prepare ahead of time.

Nitori · « **Reply #70 on:** March 19, 2009, 10:46:47 PM »

All I'm bringing for gaming is R4+DS, CFW PSP, and laptop~

Meeplelard · « **Reply #71 on:** March 21, 2009, 09:11:30 PM »

Just noting that you may add Guitar Hero World Tour (XBox360) version to games I already have, in case people want to see such stuff like MEEPLE SINGING. Also would be an amusing thing to video tape (random DLers making a fool of themselves...at my house no less...what's not to love?)

Grefter · « **Reply #72 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:49:53 PM »

I will pay to watch random DL people singing to Korn.

Xeroma · « **Reply #73 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:57:51 PM »

Can't see Guitar Hero being a problem at all myself. I prefer other rhythm games, but none of them give quite the same ridiculous spectatorism that GH gives.

Meeplelard · « **Reply #74 on:** March 22, 2009, 02:28:49 AM »

Well, part of the reason is DDR requires a lot more standing room to play than GH; you need enough room to actually go on the dance mat and such, so right there, that means less spectator area.

For example, back at Bergen, someone brought in GH2 when it just came out, and we had no problems playing it in our little Anime Club Room of narrowness...where as DDS, it'd be flat out impossible to play there (well, with a Dance Pad.)

Also, GH has songs you can actually sing to and recognize and what not, since its more contemporary/classic rock instead of "Shit all over the place, half of which are japanese songs you never heard of." (at least, that's what DDR seemed to me.)

At least, that's what I think is part of the reason; could just be over analyzing. Maybe its just GH has a lot more Spectator charm than other Rhythm games <_<

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Author Topic: DLCon 4: Games (Read 10056 times)