Author Topic: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses  (Read 2950 times)

Cmdr_King

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Godlike:

Rika (PS4) vs Choko (AtLC)
Berle (SO2) vs Terra Branford (FF6)
Ryu (BoF2) vs Id (XG)
Belial (WA4) vs Myria (BoFs)

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6)
Lyndis (FE7) vs Odin (VP2)
Dias Flac (SO2) vs Hero (Lufia 1)
Percival (S3) vs Athos (FE7)

Middle:

Jessica Philomele(MK) vs Virginia Maxwell (WA3)
Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7)
Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2)
Cleo (S1) vs Alhazad (WA1)

Light:

Jane Maxwell (ACF) vs Slash (CT)
Thomas (S3) vs Rennac (FE8)
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Lucia (SH2)
Nina (BoF3) vs Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2009, 05:24:18 AM »
Godlike:

Rika (PS4) vs Choko (AtLC) - Nowadays, I don't consider uber-Choko legal. And uh nothing else she has that I know that is legal is above Light. Get yourself booted, Choko.
Berle (SO2) vs. Terra Branford (FF6) - Heavy-level healing vs. Berle.
Ryu (BoF2) vs Id (XG) - Dear god, he OHKOs on a counter (and god knows Id can't even properly kill Ryu with anything he has). Failure.
Belial (WA4) vs Myria (BoFs) - Dear god, Belial can't catch a break.

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6) - I forgot about the damage failure. Nevermind.
Lyndis (FE7) vs Odin (VP2) - One-turns rather solidly to me. Otherwise, she has no issues chipping through Odin (just equip an Iron Blade or somesuch, suddenly now she stops doubling) and Odin is epic failure when not at limit range. Moppy needs to blow up sorta.
Dias Flac (SO2) vs Hero (Lufia 1) - ugh.
Percival (S3) vs Athos (FE7) - ... god, Silent Lake spoilery kicks in, doesn't it.

Middle:

Jessica Philomele(MK) vs Virginia Maxwell (WA3) - Funky match, but I think Jessica just shuts Ginny down with Silence and proceeds to win from there. Don't think a turn one Gatling is OHKOing, especially when it has to get through Blocker.
Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7) - hate.
Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2) - Oh, so Sheela sucks.
Cleo (S1) vs Alhazad (WA1) - Yeaaaaaaaah, I think Alhazad even walls fire, which probably seals the fight in his favor.

Light:

Jane Maxwell (ACF) vs Slash (CT) - That's a lot of HP Jane has to break through with her 6-7HKO damage. Not happening.
Thomas (S3) vs Rennac (FE8) - A lot more evade and accuracy, really.
Nina (BoF3) vs Luke fon Fabre (TotA) - Nina3 physical durability.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 06:20:41 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Nitori

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2009, 05:39:21 AM »
Godlike:

Rika (PS4) vs Choko (AtLC) - Uber Choko is always legal
Belial (WA4) vs Myria (BoFs) - Yeah whatever

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6) - Ciato never wins

Middle:

Jessica Philomele (MK) vs Virginia Maxwell (WA3) - Virginia in not-Light
Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7) - BLIZZARD ORB
Cleo (S1) vs Alhazad (ACF) - ACF Alhazad is Ko

Light:

Jane Maxwell (ACF) vs Slash (CT) - YES INDEED
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Lucia (SH2) - CINNAMON
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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2009, 06:27:05 AM »
Godlike:

Rika (PS4) vs Choko (AtLC)- Blar, I guess Uber Choko is legal to me, so...whoever is faster.
Berle (SO2) vs Terra Branford (FF6)
Ryu (BoF2) vs Id (XG)- Id is double average and Ryu is average at best.
Belial (WA4) vs Myria (BoFs)

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6)
Lyndis (FE7) vs Odin (VP2)- Unsure on my Odin respect.
Dias Flac (SO2) vs Hero (Lufia 1)- Keeps on 2HKOing to me.
Percival (S3) vs Athos (FE7)- I guess.

Middle:

Jessica Philomele(MK) vs Virginia Maxwell (WA3)
Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7)- Umaro is 50% ITD and 25% magic damage and notably physically tanky.
Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2)- Think Sheela's physical was a bit below average damage.
Cleo (S1) vs Alhazad (WA1)

Light:

Jane Maxwell (ACF) vs Slash (CT)
Thomas (S3) vs Rennac (FE8)
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Lucia (SH2)
Nina (BoF3) vs Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
...into the nightfall.

James_xeno

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2009, 12:33:04 PM »

Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2)- Think Sheela's physical was a bit below average damage.

Yeah that's right. Her physical does around 30, against a 39.4 average and 98.5 kill point.


Also... (Vivi's) Drain respect should come into play here, if he can't do it outright. As Sheela does not want to get into a heal/resource war with Vivi in this way. It would bleed her almost dry, and then all he would have to do is just finish her off. (she needs her MP to heal, he only needs her HP.) Osmose is the nail in the coffin.


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Meeplelard

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2009, 02:57:59 PM »
Godlike:

Rika (PS4) vs Choko (AtLC): Choko is legal in her AtL4 form, which is a solid heavy!  Pity Rika still crushes that.  She also doesn't like how I see Eliminat being Accuracy vs. Evasion, which means Choko's good speed does jack squat against (...I think?  Don't think it matters, as I think Rika out resources her ANYWAY.)
Berle (SO2) vs Terra Branford (FF6): If nothing else, Terra vs. Ultimecia should serve as a reminder as to how Terra is not screwed against bosses who immune Drain.
Ryu (BoF2) vs Id (XG): I see Ryu2 getting that turn, so splat.
Belial (WA4) vs Myria (BoFs): You know, this fight kind of reminds me of Royce vs. Kefka in a weird way.  Royce was somewhat more durable than Kefka, to the point where she might actually outslug him...except Kefka's speed advantage was so massive, that it flipped the match in his favor.  Same thing here, more or less, except that we swap the case of durability and speed are flipped...the result ends up the same in the end <_<

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6): If Delita was a NORMAL PC, I might let him go Confusion + Instant Death protection.  Problem is, he's not, so I feel I should be a bit harsher on his equipment than an average PC.
Though, even if you did allow that, couldn't Edgar win anyway?  Delita is still slower, and he loses a firm amount of HP swapping to Chameleon Robe and a lot of damage going with N-kai Bracelet (or whatever he's using), backed up by Edgar's good defenses?  Honestly don't know exactly how Delita's stats look (and I could be mistaking but I don't think he could equip Clothes), but my kneejerk says that to protect against Edgar's stat, Delita's dropping a lot of damage and durability, to the point where Edgar may outslug him.  Someone wanna help clarify this?
Lyndis (FE7) vs Odin (VP2): Lyn should be able to Chip -> Smite in worst case scenario to get around Spiritual Lancer; my Odin HP respect isn't high.
Dias Flac (SO2) vs Hero (Lufia 1): Good Durability and Healing should be enough to take out Dias. 
Percival (S3) vs Athos (FE7): sounds like he just barely gets Silent Lake off in time before Athos gets his second turn, which ends the match.

Middle:

Jessica Philomele(MK) vs Virginia Maxwell (WA3): Can't vote.
Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7): Yeah, two physical tanks; Umaro has a somewhat significant chance of bypassing Heath's defenses while Heath can't say the same, which tips the chances in Umaro's favor.  Heath does have Counters, but I think I see them ONLY working on Umaro's basic physicals, since the other two ignore Row, which makes me think they should be considered ranged...unless Heath uses a Javelin...but then he's just badly outslugged (and Umaro has like 18% M. block anyway or something!!!)
Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2): Vivi casts Slow, and that should give him the edge he needs; Osmose to screw around with Sheela's healing while opting for some healing set up himself should let him control the match.
Cleo (S1) vs Alhazad (WA1): Kneejerk.

Light:

Jane Maxwell (ACF) vs Slash (CT): Slash had some magical attacks, and counters.  Sorry Jane.
Thomas (S3) vs Rennac (FE8): ...I honestly don't know...
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Lucia (SH2): Lucia respect isn't there!
Nina (BoF3) vs Luke fon Fabre (TotA): When in doubt, disrespect Nina 3.
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Scar

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2009, 03:26:32 PM »
Is Delita really slower then Edgar? I remember Edgar starts off with pretty abismal speed unless you are factoring in Odin levels or relics or something.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 06:25:44 PM by Scar »
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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2009, 03:44:56 PM »
Godlike:

Rika (PS4) vs Choko (AtLC) - Choko.  Yay uber-Choko.
Berle (SO2) vs Terra Branford (FF6) - Berle.  Boss fun.
Ryu (BoF2) vs Id (XG) - ...bleh.  Ryu.  Defense with Guts. 
Belial (WA4) vs Tyr (BoFs) - Tyr.  As shitastic as Big Crash is...Tyr 1 wins with that and durability.  Tyr 3 has actual MT damage >_>

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6) - Edgar.
Lyndis (FE7) vs Odin (VP2) - Odin.  Boss durability, damage...Lyn can't avoid the limit phase.
Dias Flac (SO2) vs Hero (Lufia 1) - Hero.  Healing is fun.  Also STATUE.
Percival (S3) vs Athos (FE7) - ...wow.  Silence killed spell usage on mages...Percy wins, I guess.

Middle:

Jessica Philomele(MK) vs Virginia Maxwell (WA3) - Jessica.  Though...well, MF6 form...mmm...
Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7) - Umaro.  Easy Type form for Godlike.
Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2) - Well, if you don't allow Vigour Balls for everyone, Sheela actually is above average damage due to unique weapons!  Anyway, she's prettier, so she wins.
Cleo (S1) vs Alhazad (WA1) - Alhazad.

Light:

Jane Maxwell (ACF) vs Slash (CT) - Slash.
Thomas (S3) vs Rennac (FE8) - Rennac.  Godly RES. 
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Lucia (SH2) - Cinnamon bagels.
Nina (BoF3) vs Luke fon Fabre (TotA) - Luke.
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Meeplelard

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2009, 03:45:23 PM »
Ok, just mathed it out!

Edgar vs. Delita status resistant set up do 3HKO each other (assuming Drill vs. Holy Explosion), by which I mean they're both idiotically close to failing; Edgar struggles more, mind.

*HOWEVER*, Edgar has ways to work around this, Delita does not.  Observe!

Edgar can equip Crystal Helm for an extra +10 Defense, which makes him survive EASILY.  Even if you re-average the cast to reflect defense optimization, even being so picky as to say Dark Hoods over Circlets, Locke/Setzer using Crystal Mail over Dark Gear, etc, Edgar still pushes Delita's damage to 4HKO rather easily.  Delita cannot do any of the same to Edgar without dropping some of his status protection.

Alternatively, Edgar could use one of his Drill attacks as Chain Saw instead.  Chain Saw + Drillx2 is an INSURED 3HKO 75% of the time; only time it fails is if Edgar's Instant Death kicks in on that ONE Chain Saw usage.

IOWs...
Assuming Delita was in fact Faster, Edgar wins 75% of the time, Delita 25% of the time.  Ouch!

If Delita tries to outstatus Edgar before Edgar kills, on average he'll lose.  Remember that the noteworthy status moves are also significantly weaker than Holy Explosion.

As a reminder, for Delita to resist both of Edgar's status, he gives up a Bracer (+3 PA), some HP (CHamelon Robe is -20 vs. Black Robe, -70 vs. Crystal Mail) *AND* the Black Robe + Ice Brand combo in favor of a simple Rune Blade (so, unless my math is off, that means Holy Explosion goes from 22 WP (in practice) to 19?)  Its a crucial HP loss cause Edgar now 3HKOs, *AND* its a huge drop in damage.


Oh, should note this...
Delita being faster is not enough.  A large part of his damage comes from the Bracer.  The only way he can block confusion is by dropping that Bracer for an N-kai Armlet (or whatever the confusion blocker is), so while yes, Air Anchor would fail (Delita just barely 2HKOs Edgar damage optimized...and that's NOT defense optimized, so he may STILL fail at that), Noiseblaster would lock Delita up pretty well as Delita's Speed edge wouldn't be very high.

So for Delita to win, he must achieve all of the following:
1. Be faster than Edgar (I think people were saying Edgar is probably faster)
2. Be allowed Chameleon Robe + N-kai Armlet (or whatever the confusion blocker is)
3a. MUST 3HKO through a defense optimized Edgar despite the above 2 Equips
3b. Have a low enough status rate threshold that sees Delita's status kicking in by turn 3.

If Delita fails #1 or #2, he's lost, plain and simple.  Edgar outstatus' Delita if he fails Criteria 2.  If he fails Criteria 1, either Edgar kills first on damage, or Delita's status just doesn't kick in fast enough (2 shots of 25% status is NOT gonna be turn 2.) 3a and 3b are listed as such cause Delita is allowed to fail one and still have a chance of winning.  However, #1 and #2 are absolute musts.  

Seems the fight is in Edgar's favor, if you ask me.

----

Edgar is a bit sluggish, but then, Delita is subpar himself, so Edgar being  faster isn't an unreasonable view.  I'd need to look at their exact speeds, and it also partially depends on whether you factor in Equipment or not.  If you factor in Thief Hats, Delita most definitely loses, as Edgar's at worst...5 points below average FF6 speed? Which isn't even 10% difference (and if you allow Edgar the Aura Lance, he can get another +3...or Longinus gives +3 too <.< >.>)  Delita meanwhile ends up like 8 speed vs. an average of...10? with Thief hats.  Yeah...there's a decent argument for Edgar being faster in any event.

Edit: OK! Delita's a little faster than I thought; he's 9 speed, so yeah, oops <_<;
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 04:28:20 PM by Meeplelard »
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superaielman

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2009, 04:23:20 PM »
Godlike:

Rika (PS4) vs Choko (AtLC)- Will look more when I get ome, leaning Rika.
Berle (SO2) vs Terra Branford (FF6)
Ryu (BoF2) vs Id (XG)
Belial (WA4) vs Myria (BoFs)

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6)- Some overthinking going on here. Edgar isn't 2HKOed if Delita blocks all the status, and is going first. Seems easy enough to me.
Lyndis (FE7) vs Odin (VP2)
Dias Flac (SO2) vs Hero (Lufia 1)- Dias is much faster and has a decent 2HKO. Hero isn't that tough before Courage.
Percival (S3) vs Athos (FE7)- Sure, I'll bite.

Middle:

Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7)- Strong kneejerk.
Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2)- Sheela needs a physical heal lock to win this.
Cleo (S1) vs Alhazad (WA1)

Light:

Thomas (S3) vs Rennac (FE8)- haaaaaaaahahaha
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Lucia (SH2)- Lucia is not a good light.
Nina (BoF3) vs Luke fon Fabre (TotA)- Luke's solid enough, which is>>>>>>>Nina3 generally.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2009, 04:30:32 PM »
Godlike:

Berle (SO2) vs Terra Branford (FF6): Yep.
Ryu (BoF2) vs Id (XG): Id killing someone as physically durable (and not slow, btw) as Ryu2 before he moves? That's hilarious. Not that it matters.
Belial (WA4) vs Myria (BoFs): ... sigh.

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6): Confuse or Death.
Lyndis (FE7) vs Odin (VP2): Odin isn't very good. Lyn two-rounds him very, very easily. Might even one-round.
Percival (S3) vs Athos (FE7): Silent Lake. Poor Athos.

Middle:

Jessica Philomele(MK) vs Virginia Maxwell (WA3): Silence stops Gatling.
Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7): Oh wow, Umaro is being so overrated here it's not funny. He's not even 2x average pdur, even, so 4 Heath attacks (good Str) kill him. Umaro 4HKOs average, Heath is above (even against magic! Yay HP). So Heath 4HKOs first. And THEN, there are counters.
Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2): Better at the same game.
Cleo (S1) vs Alhazad (WA1): Want to say Alhazad halved all non-Holy elements, which makes this straightforward.

Light:

Jane Maxwell (ACF) vs Slash (CT): Just better.
Thomas (S3) vs Rennac (FE8): Evade spoiling!
Cinnamon (MMXCM) vs Lucia (SH2): Raged Lucia should 2HKO Cin even with her def (bad HP), 3HKO under Hyper Mode. Needs that turn to buff so 4HKO. Cinnamon 4HKOs first.
Nina (BoF3) vs Luke fon Fabre (TotA): Luke's a pretty badass Light.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 04:33:07 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2009, 05:38:04 PM »
Godlike:

Belial (WA4) vs Myria (BoFs)
Has MT.

Heavy:

Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6)
Confusion.
Lyndis (FE7) vs Odin (VP2)
No way in hell I see Lyn blowing through Spiritual Lancer.

Middle:

Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7)
See Elfboy, with lacking respect for Umaro's AI tossed in.
Vivi Ornitier (FF9) vs Sheela (SF2)
If he was physical, she might be able to get something going with Boost. But uh no.

Light:

Jane Maxwell (ACF) vs Slash (CT)
JANE DAMAGE.
Nina (BoF3) vs Luke fon Fabre (TotA)
Nina3 everything.
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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2009, 06:41:46 PM »
Delita Hyral (FFT) vs Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6)
Percival (S3) vs Athos (FE7)

Umaro (FF6) vs Heath (FE7): Ahaha Umaro.

Thomas (S3)
vs Rennac (FE8)
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2009, 10:01:05 PM »
Quote
No way in hell I see Lyn blowing through Spiritual Lancer.

Unscaled, she hardly has to. Spiritual Lancer is 5500~ damage (probably a bit less, endgame armour is worth SOMETHING, if not much) to 10-11000 endgame HP. Granted, if you see Odin's HP as good enough here to get off 3-4 attacks, it doesn't matter... but I will note that Valkyrie + the Atk Up sealstones + a Might Potion comes just shy of OHKOing him, and pulls it off with a back attack, and that's one PC, so I doubt he's looking durable against endgame damage regardless of how you take bosses.

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SnowFire

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2009, 10:51:10 PM »
That sounds way high for an estimate of party HP for Odin.  It came up the last time Odin respect was under debate, so I pretty distinctly remember Spritual Lancer OHKOing the ~8000 HP Toughness'd Alicia.  Dark Holy Elf at the time claimed I must have left the Attack Up Sealstone lying around for Odin, but even if you assume Lancer only does ~6000 HP, average HP is probably more like 7000 HP, and Lyn's defense is bad, so yeah, I'd see the Lancer as a solid OHKO here.

That said...

Lyn vs. Odin.  Even with Odin HP respect, Lyn simply opens with a Slim/Iron Sword attack (I'm certainly not seeing Odin as north of 1.6 PCHP).  Lyn then finishes the job with a doubled Sol Katti strike.  Odin only wins when Lyn misses with one of those hits, which, despite weapon triangle disadvantage, isn't too common.  Alternatively...  Lyn equips a bow, runs around sniping Odin.  The place where you fight him has all sorts of crap littering the ground, so such a strategy might actually work in the game.

Also...  OblivionKnight, how do you see Berle as winning?  Let's assume Berle's HP is unscaled and furthermore that he can spam invincibility constantly.  Terra comes from a real-time battle system, so she can sit there with the menu window open waiting for invincibility to expire, quickly cast an attack spell before Berle can re-activate it, then go back to turtling with Cure2.  I guess she could run out of MP...  but eh, that'll take awhile, and even with unscaled HP Berle isn't surviving that many Terra attack spells.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 10:52:59 PM by SnowFire »

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2009, 11:12:34 PM »
Shale takes bosses against endgame parties regardless of when they're fought, which is why his vote surprised me.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Pyro

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2009, 11:23:39 PM »
Alicia can one-round him at endgame levels with weaponry that is available at that point. (Einherjarless playthrough. Like I had a choice but to solo)

SnowFire

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2009, 11:32:13 PM »
Pyro: But you could have used Rufus for the first fight and Lezard for the second, no?  Or was it just a straight Alicia solo?

Meeplelard

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Re: Season 50, Week 2- Hopefully, Kings are just as good as Princesses
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2009, 11:51:33 PM »
The First Fight is like Freya, in that if you're hit with his Soul Crush, the fight just ends, so long as someone is alive.

The second fight...well, I think Pyro was making a joke regarding "Its Alicia and Lezard, it might as well be Alicia ALONE offensively!"  I mean, VP2 Mages Late game <_<
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> so Snow...
[21:39] <+Mega_Mettaur> Sonic Chaos
[21:39] <+Hello-NewAgeHipsterDojimaDee> That's -brilliant-.

[17:02] <+Tengu_Man> Raven is a better comic relief PC than A