Author Topic: PokeMafia - Day 4 (Read 47957 times)

QuietRain · « **Reply #75 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:03:16 AM »

VOTECOUNT

Yoshiken(0): Bardiche
Snowfire(0): Xanth, Snowfire
Carthrat(1): OblivionKnight
OblivionKnight(0): Excal, Carthrat
Kilgamayan(0): Nietz
Sylon(5): SirAlex, EvilTom, Excal, Carthrat, Ryogo, Nietz
Deltaflyer2k8(1): Sylon, Snowfire, Yoshiken
Xanth(3): Kilgamayan, Meeplelard, Strago
Meeplelard(1): Bardiche, Xanth
QuietRain (0): EvilTom
Ryogo (1): SnowFire

VOTES FOR EXTENSION (9 needed for majority)
(8) : SnowFire, Yoshiken, Nietz, Sylon, Meeplard, Ryogo, EvilTom, Carthrat

Deadline in about 7 hours.. It takes 9 to lynch. REMINDER: If there is no vote count leader, a random target among those that share the highest vote counts against them will be done by myself at deadline tonight. Avoid this.

NOTE: Leaving for home now. Will be back up and running in about an hour.

Ranmilia · « **Reply #76 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:23:42 AM »

Wow, that's quite the flood of posts.

Extensions never help, people just procrastinate more and waste them, read any past game where they've been accepted, the days wind up in deadline scrambles anyway.

So we've got here the Sylon train, which started with jokevotes, turned into "Why not, good for reactions" and then... Sylon... hasn't done anything. I agree that it's as bad a train as any day 1 randomness, but on the other hand... it's as good a train as most day 1 randomness, and I'd feel very weird taking my vote off of someone who has not said or done anything of note, even though it was initially placed as a joke. Sick player or not.

Snow's actions were silly, as stated. The secondary train on Xanth stemming from them... feels like it should be good enough, but I have a bad gut reaction to it right now. Possibly because of the people on it. Probably because this post from Strago, wherein he says all current cases are bad and doesn't vote, is the only thing that really tipped my "What" detector so far.

Ryogo · « **Reply #77 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:42:49 AM »

Quote from: SnowFire on March 26, 2009, 12:23:52 AM

"The Sylon case is the worst so far, but far from being overly scummy?" Huh? I suppose it could be a slip of the tongue, as I assume you meant "it's the best we have which is still not much," but it still comes off weird. If you think that there's a better case... vote that! (Or did you mean worst as in likeliest to be guilty?)

I meant exactly what you said at the end of that quote. Worst as in, "He looks the worst to me so far".

The case on him is far from being really scummy. I meant "It's best best we have, but its still not much", when I said that, like you said. It sounded good in my head as I wrote it, but looking back at my post now, it does sound really weird the way I worded it. Just shows the value of looking over an essay a few hours or a day after writing it. Sorry for the confusion.

Trust me, if there was someone else that I thought was looking scummier, my vote would be there $:-\$

So far, vote staying where it is. I realize what people are saying about Meeple with trying to screen himself with his joke vote, but I feel it's pretty shaky. I almost did it in the Simpsons Mafia game for shits and giggles myself. It means I'm instantly scum? I personally think people are looking way too deep into that situation. Then again, it is day one. XP

QuietRain · « **Reply #78 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:05:44 AM »

Day ends in 5 hours.

SnowFire · « **Reply #79 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:30:43 AM »

Ryogo: Fair enough.

Everyone else: So currently we're cruising toward lynching Sylon just well because. Doesn't this worry anyone else? Sylon's said he was sick, I'm willing to take his word for that, and while a Sylon lynch could possibly be informative, it won't be if we don't actually hear from him. This little posting is surely real-life issues, as both town Sylon and scum Sylon would have solid incentive to post. Meanwhile, if Sylon isn't scum, I'm sure the scum would be thrilled to just let the clock run out and "accidentally" lynch a random townie. Strago has offered a reasonably good pro-town reason to be against an extension, but as it stands now I think that town at least should really want one. It won't be much of an extension anyway, since Day 1 was set to be unusually short before.

The fact that people are so blase about a Sylon lynch actually speaks mildly to his towniness. If Sylon is scum with RL issues, then his (or her?) scumbuddy should seriously be trying to kick up a racket about an extension so that Sylon could have a shot (kind of like what I'm doing now), something that could be done without necessarily tying their cases together. Yes this is fraught with WIFOM issues, but we don't have much else to work with.

I'd unvote Ryogo but I still don't have enough to go on to even begin to construct a plausible train. There's Xanth, which could be interesting, but eh. I've still got only the barest of clues about Carthrat, EvilTom, OblivionKnight... we seriously need more posts here.

##UNVOTE: Sylon
##VOTE: Xanth

This is strictly a vote for if the extension does not go through, since Xanth is really the only alternative at the moment. If we get the extension, then I hope that we can find something better to work with.

SnowFire · « **Reply #80 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:31:31 AM »

And by that I meant "##UNVOTE: Ryogo" of course. I don't think I can give Sylon a negative vote.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #81 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:31:44 AM »

Back.

Not sure I like the idea of the day ending in the middle of the night, but Mafia seems busiest when I'm in bed (despite my not being an Aussie).

Now for those other thoughts! I'll be with you again momentarily, though I still state now that I have no interest in voting to Extend the day, since I don't believe any real solid, worth-discussing cases have come up today, and the sooner we have a train and a flip to work off of the better.

SnowFire · « **Reply #82 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:49:07 AM »

Kilgamayan: That's exactly the problem. We've had a few things worthy of discussion, but not enough. Let's say OblivionKnight is scum for a moment. He's got a totally clean slate and can say - quite possibly reasonably - "oh yeah I was busy Wednesday night" as to why he never chipped in here. It's much easier to tell the difference between "real life" and "actively lurking" when Day 1 is longer than functionally 1 day (since Tuesday was mostly spent on introductions and jokevotes).

I'm not a fan of Wall of Words, but town does need *information*, and no extension makes it really easy on the scum to lurk it up in a non-suspicious fashion, and hard for the town to change gears if something interesting does pop up in the near future.

Ranmilia · « **Reply #83 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:12:14 AM »

Sooooo you object strenuously to lynching Sylon "just because," but you're totally cool with going to the secondary train on Xanth... just because? That's a little... what. Actually more than a little what. Actually I got a better idea.

##Unvote: Sylon
##Vote: Snowfire

Really, really caught up in defending Sylon for some reason, seems to be antilynch in general... except he hops on Xanth, hoping for something to magically come up with an extension. Plus the earlier selfvote weirdness, which he got a pass on before, but it doesn't help much. Don't like him.

SnowFire · « **Reply #84 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:18:50 AM »

Like I said. I'm actually getting a mild townie vibe from Sylon. Xanth has been around, so yes, his lynch might both give more information and be more likely to hit scum to me, assuming we don't get an extension and thus have no time to see what other people post and then react to that.

I don't want to "magically come up with" an extension. I'm hoping that people like you will vote for one for, if no other reasons than it's in their self-interest if they're town. (I'd argue that a more fundamental "the game is not fun if people don't have a chance to interact" would be an even better excuse to vote for an extension, but I know that philosophies differ there.)

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #85 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:19:20 AM »

I'm still not feeling the Sylon train, even given he didn't do much of anything. I understand the LAL mantra but I'd rather lynch someone that actively did something I didn't like instead of someone not doing much of anything.

To the people chastising Sylon for his reaction to the train, what would you have preferred his reaction to be?

Don't like the minor points raised against Delta throughout the day, they seem like another formulaic response ("you suck at ____" -> omg vote4jerk) that doesn't consider the context (in this case, Delta pointing out the non-serious nature of the comment). If I misunderstand anyone's continued misgivings with Delta, please let me know.

---

Notes I took while reading about things people did that I didn't like about them (as opposed to simply not liking cases):

- Bardiche: Gets after Meeple for not reading the rules. Supposedly he was unaware that Meeple did not reada the rules, but Bard still unvoted after Meeple explained he did not read the rules, implying that it was an important point. Why does logic that contradicts the rules scummy?
- Snowfire: Afraid of touching the hammer threshold with a ten foot pole early on into the day.
- Yoshiken: Votes Delta for being "overly aggressive" but does not explain why this is bad (and takes being prodded to even explain HOW Delta was being "overly aggressive"). Yoshiken, why is being aggressive bad? It seems to me that scum would have a much harder time being aggressive than town would.
- Delta: Comments that Sylon needs to put forth comments on everyone and then proceeds to place neutrals on pretty much everyone (and "post more"s on those that he doesn't) without bothering to explain why he holds any non-PostMore opinion.
- Ryogo: Calls out Rat for his "all aboard the Sylon train woo woo!" reasoning and then turns around and does the same thing.
- Bardiche: Asks Xanth about his switch, citing that nothing had changed with Meeple since Xanth's last post. I thought Xanth made it pretty obvious why the switch was made when he mentioned that the Snow case wasn't going anywhere, and I question why that didn't register in Bard's mind.

If this were the beginning of the day I would probably vote Bard for the two things mentioned above, but given the circumstances I'm staying on Xanth out of mini-protest for the Sylon train.

Cut by Snow: I can sorta see where you're coming from, but the train resulting in the end-of-day lynch will be very worthy of discussion. In fact, I would bet that it will be more worthy of discussion than most anything else that would happen in extension time.

Cut by Alex: Interesting perspective of Snow. I'll need a moment to think about it.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #86 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:19:48 AM »

*Why is logic that contradicts the rules scummy?

Ranmilia · « **Reply #87 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:23:27 AM »

What I meant there is that Snow's hoping for some clear case to come up during the extension, should one happen. I think this is an unrealistic hope.

SnowFire · « **Reply #88 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:34:25 AM »

Because I read it in preparation for Simpsons Mafia... I present to you Mai-Hime mafia, which you took part in, Sir Alex.

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=2506.msg42192#msg42192

This is the post that got the scum godfather lynched on Day 1, and it even opens with "We've got about 12 hours left." (in a 48-hour day rather than a 36-hour one) It's not until 5 hours after that anyone votes for him, and it's towards the deadline that the train shifts toward Sopko.

There are too many people who haven't posted much at all and haven't had the chance to make such a slip-up. Day 1 sucks, but it's not useless, and we should make the best of it we can by letting more people post tomorrow.

QuietRain · « **Reply #89 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:37:56 AM »

VOTECOUNT

Yoshiken(0): Bardiche
Snowfire(0): Xanth, Snowfire
Carthrat(1): OblivionKnight
OblivionKnight(0): Excal, Carthrat
Kilgamayan(0): Nietz
Sylon(4): SirAlex, EvilTom, Excal, Carthrat, Ryogo, Nietz
Deltaflyer2k8(1): Sylon, Snowfire, Yoshiken
Xanth(4): Kilgamayan, Meeplelard, Strago, SnowFire
Meeplelard(1): Bardiche, Xanth
QuietRain (0): EvilTom
Ryogo (0): SnowFire

VOTES FOR EXTENSION (9 needed for majority)
(8) : SnowFire, Yoshiken, Nietz, Sylon, Meeplard, Ryogo, EvilTom, Carthrat

Deadline in about 3 1/2 hours. It takes 9 to lynch. REMINDER: If there is no vote count leader, a random target among those that share the highest vote counts against them will be done by myself at deadline tonight. Avoid this.

EvilTom · « **Reply #90 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:40:15 AM »

My compiled thoughts on activity I find scummy -

Yoshiken - Case on Delta is v. weak, amounts to 'Delta is aggressive'
Excal - 'I agree with Rat, but I don't.' More concerningly "So, I'll be able to react accordingly once everyone's had time to react.", in other words "I'll join the scuffle once the dust settles".
Xanth - Leapt on Delta when it wasn't called for, then focused on the suicide vote
Meeple - Votes Xanth purely over the Snow thing

Out of those people, my vote will be wasted unless I vote for Xanth apparently. I'm not entirely happy with that. TBH I'd prefer to vote for Excal, but there's no point in doing so as he has no votes so I'll leave it as a FOS for now. Somebody will be lynched no matter what, but I want to have a part in that. I don't see much on Sylon other than "being quiet when trained", but I've barely been able to post due to timezones so I'm not pressing that on him.

For me, the single worst thing from Xanth isn't the metagame stuff, it's the Delta-slap on page one. It's easy to victimize Dela, and it wasn't really needed. ##Vote: Xanth

Ranmilia · « **Reply #91 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:42:54 AM »

Tom old pal! What do you think about Snowfire?

.... what do you think about that last votecount including my unvote on Sylon and not my vote on Snowfire? I'm not sure if that's a count error, or...?

EvilTom · « **Reply #92 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:56:54 AM »

Huh WTF?

I didn't notice it (it was a ninja votecount, I didn't bother to read it).

That's... weird. Mod, is that votecount correct?

If so, that changes everything. Reminiscent of incompetent mafia.

As for what I think about Snow, I thought it was a bit overblown, but tha may be about to change. :S

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #93 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:59:01 AM »

Alex: What do you hope to accomplish by voting SnowFire at this juncture?

Snow: Do you think Xanth is scummy? What makes Sylon better than him?

Ranmilia · « **Reply #94 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:06:54 AM »

We got about 3 hours, it's US evening so people are around, and Snow's the best lynch to me. I hope to demonstrate my beliefs on the matter at this juncture and possibly convince other people to join me in voting him so that he may be lynched?

There's nothing in my role that would account for my vote not working on someone! It may just be a count error though I guess and even if not I'm not sure what it would mean.

QuietRain · « **Reply #95 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:07:26 AM »

VOTECOUNT - Corrected as I did indeed only catch half of Alex' vote (the unvote part).

Yoshiken(0): Bardiche
Snowfire(0): Xanth, Snowfire, SirAlex
Carthrat(1): OblivionKnight
OblivionKnight(0): Excal, Carthrat
Kilgamayan(0): Nietz
Sylon(4): SirAlex, EvilTom, Excal, Carthrat, Ryogo, Nietz
Deltaflyer2k8(1): Sylon, Snowfire, Yoshiken
Xanth(5): Kilgamayan, Meeplelard, Strago, SnowFire, EvilTom
Meeplelard(1): Bardiche, Xanth
QuietRain (0): EvilTom
Ryogo (0): SnowFire

VOTES FOR EXTENSION (9 needed for majority)
(8) : SnowFire, Yoshiken, Nietz, Sylon, Meeplard, Ryogo, EvilTom, Carthrat

Deadline in about 3 hours. It takes 9 to lynch. REMINDER: If there is no vote count leader, a random target among those that share the highest vote counts against them will be done by myself at deadline tonight. Avoid this.
[/quote]

Excal · « **Reply #96 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:08:54 AM »

Snow, just curious. Do you actually have a reason as to why Sylon is town besides that he's sick? I mean, sure, he could be a townie who's not feeling well and can't think of anything to say. Though he could also be a scum who's not feeling well and can't think of anything to say. Both sides can have that same excuse. So where does your certainty come from?

But what gets to me is the logic that not only is the excuse a good reason not to lynch him, but that we should lynch Xanth instead specifically to save him. However, more important is the reasoning used to pick between the two. Namely, that Xanth talks. What the hell kind of reasoning is that? We want to have a lurker over someone who actually participates?

Honestly, I'm not sold on Sylon, but some people have made some pretty good cases for him. Xanth I don't see the case on at all. But you, Snow? Yeah, I'm definatly feeling that right now, so.

##Unvote: Sylon, ##Vote: Snowfire

Meeplelard · « **Reply #97 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:10:01 AM »

I don't have much to add to what's been said, cause I'm not finding much to work with...well, no, that's not worded right, I just mean "much that has changed my stances." But I might as well weigh in on some recent activities a bit.

First off, Sylon...yeah, not seeing the case. Its mostly as Kilga spelt out; a train that started mostly just to get the ball rolling, and just so we have SOMEONE to lynch initially, rather than leaving it to Hatbot, he didn't respond immediately, and people are saying its bad cause they know he was on. Eh, I'm gonna agree that its a shaky case, especially if what he says is true about not feeling well.

Snowfire's case I think its more just him having an odd way of thinking of things. I understand where he's coming from as well; whether I agree with it...dunno. He does bring up a good point that OK has said like nothing of substance, for example (though, I haven't seen OK much in chat, so I'm guessing he actually isn't around much today.) I'm not really seeing this as a scum tell, more of a "is that really going to help?" situation. Bad playing, maybe, scum tell, can't really say. Getting not much of a read on him either way at the moment.

Regarding Bard's statement about me not paying attention to the rules = bad...
I think he's more saying he'll let it slide for now, but using it too much of an excuse is hinting I'm not paying attention, which doesn't look good. He's not really holding it against me at the moment, near as I can tell, more just warning me for future reference if that makes sense?

Though, I do agree that "not following the rules" isn't really a scum tell, more just me being a total moron >_>;

---
Ninja'd by a few people! Namely Alex and Excal I think.

EvilTom · « **Reply #98 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:11:29 AM »

Quote from: QuietRain on March 26, 2009, 05:07:26 AM

Snowfire(0): Xanth, Snowfire, SirAlex

DUN DUN DUN!

..No really. If it's just a votecount error.. Eh. Snow hasn't been acting scummy, in my eyes. I haven't had the time I'd like to spend on this so far (posting from a lecture right now). Can you tell me why you're dead set on him?

Ninja, will check when lecturer isn't looking.

SnowFire · « **Reply #99 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:18:44 AM »

Last post before bed, which probably means forever if no one else votes the extension.

Kilgamayan: See my logic before about how things would have gone if Sylon had a theoretical scumbuddy. They have a perfectly justifiable reason to raise hell over the Sylon train, but that hasn't happened (except for me - this logic works best from my perspective, since I know I'm town; if Sylon flips scum, I will grant that I will look worse.). In fact, people seemed to be kicking up their heels saying "Well, this is the best we can do." If you are scum this is the best possible case - have a lazy mislynch that requires little scum guidance to set off. I will fully grant that this is fraught with WIFOM problems - see, well, Simpsons mafia for a case where the scum ended up weird on Day 1 - but I still feel it has merit, which is certainly enough for Day1 standards.

As for Xanth, there's not much of a case on him, but like I said that vote is mostly for the case where there is no extension. If there's no extension than the only choice is between targets who might actually be lynched - Sylon (mildly townie) and Xanth (neutral). If those are the only two options, it is an easy pick.

Excal: I'm hardly "sure" Sylon is town. I do think that lynching him without letting him respond at all due to what are almost certainly RL issues would be stupid, though. In fact, didn't we go through something similar in Simpsons Mafia? Scum Andy and Meeple were attacking someone who wasn't there at all. Sylon has at least been around a little, but worst comes to worst he gets modkilled. And I've already explained why I'm voting Xanth - he's the only other option that stands a reasonable chance if there is no extension. If you vote for an extension, you can fix that problem quite easily, and hopefully we can find a better train.

News:

Author Topic: PokeMafia - Day 4 (Read 47957 times)