Help Request - Character Lists

[Yoshiken]

Project Info
So, I'm working on a small project at the moment. And by small, I mean holy-crap-why-the-hell-did-I-start-this?. Basically, I'll cut to the chase and assume people here are intelligent enough to know what a poll is. I'm planning to create a website that runs a huge games character poll. It'd be based on popularity, not strength of characters, so any character -should- have a chance to win it...
Thing is, I always personally find myself annoyed with GameFAQs Character Poll. Sure, it's the biggest character poll on the 'net, but it also only contains, at most, 128 characters. On the forums, the nomination topics usually only reach a few topics worth, yet those characters will get over 30000 votes in each match. The obvious idea here, for me, is that not everybody who's voting is nominating characters. This means that not everybody is having a say, and this means that it's not a fair contest.

Request Info
Still reading? Great. Here's where I need the help then...
I'm looking to create a games character poll with every games character ever. Yes, even the most minor ones. Problem is, I've not played all that many games, and I've completed even less. Internet's useless, 'cause I can't determine which characters are important enough to include - for example, an S4 character list included the Queen of Obel, who never actually appears. So, I need people to provide lists of every character from games. Yes, eventually, I'll need every game ever, and I realise this'll take an eternity to do, but with enough help, I think it'll be possible.
To clarify, there are three types of characters to be included in this:
1. Those with major or reoccurring roles. This would include, for example, Nina (BoFV) (major role) and the Travelling Merchant (VP2) (for appearing repeatedly).
2. Those with "speaking roles". This means anyone who has a decent amount of script, even if they aren't all that important. An example is the Old Man on Death Mountain (Zelda: ALttP), who talks a lot, but doesn't affect the storyline and isn't given a name.
3. Anyone who's specifically named. Examples are Agania (Zelda: ALttP) (random sage in a cave, no relevance other than being named) and the Moogles from FFIX (yes, I'm going to be including all of them...).


Post here first if you are willing to help so that I can double-check that the game(s) you're willing to do haven't been done already, and I'll greatly appreciate any and all help with this. ^^

[Bardiche]

I'd suggest noting down the most noteworthy people from the Ranked Duellists first, then checking Unranked Games and noting down all Unranked duellists, too.

[superaielman]

Gamefaqs does have an open nominations system for it's character contests.  Everyone has a chance to do nominations who wishes to do so, not everyone exercises that right. Some people are just content voting. Same thing happens at the DL. Not everyone does site noms who votes. That isn't unfair, just part of the process.

If you're going to do a character database, cool. Hit up sites like Suikosource for that. 98% of what you're going to be DBing will get no fan response and get ignored. Generally, the longer and more involved the contest the less votes you get. GF's system 'works' because it only gets the ones people care enough about to have nomination drives, in enough force to at least make some sort of impact in the polls.

[Yoshiken]

Bard - I did consider doing that, but the problem with that approach is not getting -every- character, which was my initial aim... I mean, that could be good to begin with, but it'd soon become redundant anyway methinks. Still, probably better than nothing, and I might consider doing that if I get little-to-no help.

Aiel - There are a clear number of problems with GFAQs approach, though. Sure, there are advantages, but that's the way with most things, and unless both alternatives are available, people aren't gonna know which is better. (For a few disadvantages, people generally only nominate a limited number, so some characters would not get in despite being relatively popular, just because there are other characters preferred over them - FFVII characters are probably the prime example of this. >.>  Secondly, there aren't enough nominations on GFAQs for one match, and that's not even taking into consideration the multitude of multiple nominations. A lot of people are nominating characters, but there are also a lot of people who aren't, and this approach gives them as much of a voice in the outcome as those who do nominate.)
The other point for me to comment on there is that, while inferred, the number of characters doesn't instantly relate to the length of the contest/poll. By increasing the number of matches each week (it'd be run weekly), then the poll becomes shorter. Obvious, I know, but just pointing out that more characters doesn't instantly mean less votes.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Is this just RPG characters (already a ridiculously huge undertaking), or are you seriously trying to catalog every video game ever created? Only American-released games? What about Japanese-only? Handhelds and PC games, too? Only console games?

The sheer scope of this is kind of silly.

Also, what qualifies as a 'character'? GameFAQs contest doesn't even require the candidate to be 'alive'... The Tetris L-Block, Portal's Companion Cube...

The logical extension of this is that you have to include all nonliving items of relevance, Lenneth's Glance Reviver has as much personality, if not more, than the Tetris L-block, after all!

I can appreciate what you're trying to do, but I think you may need to focus the project a bit more before you try to implement it as a poll.

Also, there may be projects similar to this already in existance, you might try contacting them and offering your help to build on what they already have.

The DL isn't really a giant repository of all RPG characters ever, it's more about focusing on a large number of somewhat -relevant- characters. I'm having a hard time understanding what purpose is served by focusing on something as minor as The Queen of Obel in the scope of THE ENTIRE REPOSITORY OF VIDEO GAMES EVER CREATED.

The scale just seems like it needs to be adjusted, or at least the focus. If you want to make a database/encyclopedia, this is understandable... but for the purposes of a popularity contest... Well, it reminds of adding your own name to a list of famous actors and asking voters who they like the most. The only votes you're going to get are joke-votes.

[Talaysen]

Pretty much agreeing with Djinn here.  There's just no way you or even a bunch of people can do something on this scope.  It's impossible.  Games come out faster than you could figure out the characters for them, and people working on this would HAVE to play the games if you're planning on getting every character ever.

[Excal]

But...  But, how am I ever going to be able to vote for Conerian Fountain vs. Glance Reviver?

[DjinnAndTonic]

But...  But, how am I ever going to be able to vote for Conerian Fountain vs. Glance Reviver?

On that note, we should totally have a 'Best RPG MacGuffin' Tournament.

The Dragon Orb (VPs) vs. The True Dragon Rune(S1)?!
The Sorceror's Ring vs. The Philosopher's Stone !?
The Tear Drop (WA1) vs. Tear's Pendant(TotA)!?
The Records of Fate (CC) vs. The Visiphone (PS2)~
Oh, the possibilities are endless! *is shot*

[Dhyerwolf]

So...you know there are RPGs where they named every NPC? No one really wants to vote on random FF 9 Moogle who lived in Lindblum versus old lady in a WA 4 town who said nothing of importance solely because they had names. If you to run this, you'd have to seriously, seriously narrow your scope. If you run this contest with just people who are ranked in the DL, and it would still take a very long time. And that would be an incredibly small subsection of everyone you could theoretically include in your tournament.

[Yoshiken]

Hrm. Comments taken and acknowledged. I'll have to look at narrowing down a good few lists - as said, exclude things like FFIX Moogles or BoFV fairies.

As it happens, I've already considered things like Tetris - no, the blocks are not characters - and cut out a fair amount of "pointless" characters - I've excluded characters who didn't originate in gaming (cutting out every film, comic or anime game), real-life or based on real-life people (taking out Guitar Hero & every sports game under the sun) and customised characters (meaning no MMO or simulation creations).

I've considered what games should be included. I was looking at including games that had been released in at least America and/or Europe, and then only adding Japan-only games upon request - probably in a fashion similar to that of new characters/games being added to the RPGDL.
As for new games coming out, there's a reason I'm trying to get a great deal of help with this project, other than the fact that it'll take a freakin' age. With most new games, you can usually find at least one person who's planning to buy it. Any where I can't, I'd make an effort to get the game myself. Besides, it's not like each character would be needed instantly - there's the duration of the whole season to list all the characters, and then it's probably fine to have some delay on characters. (For example, what if a game wasn't included until at least a season after its release? That'd make it easy enough to get the game, finish it & list the characters.)

I appreciate the comments, guys, and I will look at narrowing down the list to exclude a great deal of characters. On the other hand... I'd still appreciate some help with this. Anyone?

[Talaysen]

As it happens, I've already considered things like Tetris - no, the blocks are not characters - and cut out a fair amount of "pointless" characters - I've excluded characters who didn't originate in gaming (cutting out every film, comic or anime game), real-life or based on real-life people (taking out Guitar Hero & every sports game under the sun) and customised characters (meaning no MMO or simulation creations).

Contest no longer has Chopin.  0/10.  Also, you'd be surprised on how many people are based on real-life people.  Marguerite from Shadow Hearts, for example.

[Yoshiken]

Based around to a notable degree, then. If it's surprising to find out, then it's good enough for the contest. =P
Basically, that rule is there just to take out the hoards of characters from sports games with bad licensing - I don't want 100 Davide Becknam's in this contest.

[Talaysen]

Well, that's the difference between "based on real person" and "actually is real person".

[DjinnAndTonic]

What about generics, then? Will all pokemon be excluded? All FFT / Disgaea classes? Considering that the Disgaea Archer is one of the most popular 'characters', it could go either way...

Alternately, SMT series has a horde of recruitable demons and gods from mythology, who have little interaction with the plot, but significant amounts of backstory! Include 'em all? Throw 'em all out?

On that note, what about random enemies from RPGs and platformers? Surely a Goomba is worthy of a spot, but is the random 'Bat' from SaGa Frontier going to make the cut?

Just bringing up some examples where 'characters without a speaking part' might not cover the spirit of your database.

The thing I'm concerned about here is that I'm not sure you grasp just what kind of undertaking listing every minor character in a -single- game is. Take something low on plot like the Shining Force series, and just the first game from that. There's well over 20 PCs, plus about 6 relevant bosses, plus about 10 kings who have to talk to at some point, 3 or so mages who help you out, about 20 townspeople who are relevant during their sidequests, and each PC generally has one or two NPCs that are directly tied into their own recruitment scenes. That's about 80 or so characters right there, and only about 30 of them even have -names-. But all of those I listed are about as important to SF1 as The Queen of Obel was in S4... >.>;;

SF2 has about double that number in characters. And if you're including the whole SF series, you're looking at about 1000 characters from a nigh-storyless RPG series.

Now, something popular like FF7 would probably already have a complete (or near-complete) list somewhere, and I'd wager the number of minor characters is well over 300 in FF7, not including the Compliation and other supplemental materials.

I'm not saying that making a database is impossible. But making a database for every game ever created is.

That said, show me what kind of list you have so far and maybe I'd be able to help with a full list from a game or two that I'm intimately familiar with... >.>;; (Soul Nomad and Tales of the World Radiant Mythology come to mind there)

-Djinn

[Talaysen]

Considering that the Disgaea Archer is one of the most popular 'characters'

what

[DjinnAndTonic]

Considering that the Disgaea Archer is one of the most popular 'characters'

what

Pretty sure the latest N1 'popular character' poll has Archer at #3 or 4 or something ridiculously high like that. Just after Etna, Laharl, and Flonne I believe? Archer was the only Disgaea class that made a direct transition to Phantom Brave and Makai Kingdom... despite Bows not even existing as weapons... I think the only N1 game with a signifcantly different Archer character design is Soul Nomad.

Japanese people like their ensemble darkhorses. *shrugs*
-Djinn

[Grefter]

Why N1 continues to fail more and more every passing second.

Congratulations, something just beat ToD Leon fandom in stupid fucking fail.

[TranceHime]

Japanese people are lolicons

Drillhair is the biggest appeal. That and flat is the polar fucking opposite of being flat.

[Yoshiken]

Pokemon's already been looked at. Legendaries & starters are being included. Possibly pseudo-legendaries, still waiting for some feedback from others on that. To start with, not including generic classes but, again, this could be changed in the same way new characters/games are added to the DL.

MegaTen demons are, mostly, not involved in the story in any way, shape or form. Take Nocturne for example: the only demon that is compulsory is the Pixie, who leaves within a matter of minutes. So demons/gods aren't being included there - except for, of course: Gozu-Tennoh, Lucifer, Futomimi & Sakahagi. (Them, and the human/part-human characters are about the only ones from SMT:N.)

Random enemies aren't being included, actually. Even Goombas and Koopas. (Well, except for the specifically named ones from, say, Paper Mario.)

I think the problem here is that I -do- know how big a task this is - that's why I'm trying to get as much help with this as possible. I.. can't really comment on SF, never played it, but with other games like that (example: S4), I've used titles where possible (example: Na-Nal Island Chief), and left the character out if there's no title to give them that people will recognise them by.

FFVII's list has already been done - yes, there are a lot of random characters like Hart - and there are probably about 100 characters, including BC, CC & DoC.

Haven't got either of those ones yet. Games covered so far are:

Advance Wars (series)
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Final Fantasy (I-X, X-2 & VII:CC & DoC)
Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland
King of Fighters (series)
King of Fighters Maximum Impact (series)
Legend of Zelda (series)
Mortal Kombat (series)
Phoenix Wright (series)
Pikmin
Pokemon (series)
Soul Blade/Calibur (series)
Street Fighter (series)
Street Fighter Alpha (series)
Street Fighter EX (series)
Suikoden (series -Tierkreis)
Super Smash Bros. (series)
Tekken (series)
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

[TranceHime]

MegaTen demons are, mostly, not involved in the story in any way, shape or form. Take Nocturne for example: the only demon that is compulsory is the Pixie, who leaves within a matter of minutes. So demons/gods aren't being included there - except for, of course: Gozu-Tennoh, Lucifer, Futomimi & Sakahagi. (Them, and the human/part-human characters are about the only ones from SMT:N.)

The Pixie... doesn't actually leave unless you ask her to

If you keep that Pixie you can get an Uber Pixie with awesome skills like very late in the game

[Yoshiken]

Yeah, but she leaves the main storyline. She doesn't get any role in any part of the story other than the first section.

...I made the mistake of letting the uber Pixie evolve. >.>

[Taishyr]

Doesn't matter if the Uber Pixie evolves or even combines.

You just can't let her out of your team, if she does combine.

EDIT: Wait, do her stats reset if she evolves -after- becoming Uber Pixie? I never tried that. Lame, if so.

[Yoshiken]

Yeah, they do. They're still good due to awesome level, but... nowhere near as good as they should be.