MASKED HEROES MAFIA - Day 2: The end of the world - SCUM WIN

[Carthrat]

All right rar free double lynch just what we needed honestly, let's go.

I think it is a relatively safe bet at this juncture that one of Carnage and Dreiberg is in fact scum pretty much 100% for two reasons.

The first is the LYLO/Ohnoscumhammerthreat/voteon/voteoff shenanigans earlier today. Hopefully this speaks for itself. This is under the assumption that there are indeed two scum, since no amoutn of role madness could save town now, and if there's just one scum we might as well roll dice anyway.

Additionally, if *neither of them are scum*, the only reasonable pairing I can possibly conceive is Comedian/Spectre, since scum-Hollis had no reason to get all alarmist about LYLO there if Dreiberg and Carnage were both town, instead being able to lurk for the instant win when his buddy showed up. And I think Comedian/Spectre is really unlikely owing to day one (comedian voting spectre to L-1 so fast? spectre play not swiftly improving due to comedian-scum not prompting her to do better? yeah, not thinking that's it.)

This is admittedly not a post entirely based on my 100% sureity that Carnage himself is scum. I do believe it's more likely Nite Owl II is scum than Carnage, and if I had the former's flip in hand I'd probably use it to either kill or clear the latter. But I don't. And I think ensuring that both these guys wind up lynched is the best way we have to hit scum at all, thus ensuring we live another day (with better numbers to boot.)

So. Any takers, questions, queries, doubtful points?

[Carthrat]

Retroedit!: "since no amoutn of role madness could save town now" is meant to read more "since no amount of role madness could save town now if there were three scum"

[Captain Carnage]

Dan was still my primary suspect, and now we won't have any clues from him until the end of the day. If he was indeed a communist I take it that he was a newbie commie, since he didn't out out much effort in defending himself and was quite awkward when attacking others. This would make me suspect Silk Spectre, since he unnecessarily went ou to defend her.
My other suspicion is The Comedian, I didn't quite understood his reasons to defend the Doc, and seeing that a Manhattan conviction was very probable, he might possibly have been trying to get him some cred by refusing to accuse someone he knew who flip innocent.
About Ozymandias and Hollis, they both strike me as innocent so far.

Ozy: The only thing I can say about my vote and unvote is that I did not realize at first that it was a dangerous situation. I'm usually not involved in 'games' with so few participants, so I never equated two votes on Day 2 as danger of quicklynch.     

[Tron Bonne]

Hrmf. Have to say I buy Carnage's not quite gettin' the gravity of the pseudo-LYLO situation yesterday. I ain't pay much attention to math, myself, an' I can see how some weird masochistic jackass could have it slip his mind. Honestly that much's kind of a null read to me.

But, Carnage. I repeat my earlier question to you.

Hunh. Carnage makes a point about Dreiberg tryin' to pull fire from Laurie, though. Least that's what it looks like Dan mighta been doing end of Day 1, it's hard to attribute much meaning to him, scarce as he's been.

My gut says Spectre right now. Your point about the LYLO shenanigans looks good on paper, Ozy, but I guess I'm wary of it just cuz of how scattered those posts were, you know? Seems like people're hardly payin' attention to this game, which means the lack o' scumhammer could mean Carnage's a commie... or just that the red folks weren't goddamn around to do anythin' about it.

[Nathan Greaves]

##UNVOTE: Ozymandias
Just in case, since we might be in LYLO if Dreiberg wasn't scum.  And have softened on Ozy anyway.  Will be back for fuller post shortly.

[Helga Pataki]

Silk Spectre: Could you do me a favor and present your case against Hollis? I don't follow it and would like to see what it looks like just laid out on the table by you.

Perfectly for this, his last post (pre-ninja) makes an example of every problem I'm seein' from him. I'll say now, I'm not gettin' a particularly strong read off anyone, so I'm goin' by what little I can get. (Incoming WoQ!)

I'm around but not really around.  Been pretty busy myself this past weekend.  One of my old buddies from the police force dragged me along with him on some crazy vacation - his son became a marine biologist and is an expert on squids.  Apparently this PyramidCorp business is paying great money for some kind of project on this tropical island, and they're bringing squid experts and squid artists and everything here for some special project.  Me & Roger just hitched a ride in his son's luggage to get a free tropical vacation.  I'm sure I'll be back soon enough, as this place seems off somehow.  Surprised I even had time for the one message I got off before about Ozy.

Pure flavour. Seems intended to pad out posts without actually helpin' much.

Silk Spectre: Not much to add here, I don't think she's a good target for a HUAC investigation anyway...  but I can see an Ozy / Spectre scumteam.  Ozy leaned on Spectre early, but switched to Manhattan on Day 1; this is a wild guess, but I can also see a certain amount of what might be cooperative disagreement between them.  I'd rather lynch Ozy at this point of the two of them, so more a concern for Day 3 IF we lynch Ozy and IF he turns out to have been a commie.

I hate things like this - "If we lynch this one and they flip this, then we should lynch this one!"  Limits town's perspective (for those who follow the method behind it).

In general: That said I'm having second thoughts about Ozy now that I've seen his latest posts.  And Dan...  if he isn't a commie, maybe he was captured by them, which would be almost as bad.  If Dan doesn't show up, I don't really see any choice for us but to lynch him.

I know this isn't relevant now, but... in LYLO? This goes completely against this:

You saw my posts on Day 1- I'd probably be more willing to hop on the Nite Owl II train right now if we were not in psuedo-LYLO.  We don't have the luxury of clearing out people with short records to gain information for later.  We need to kill the real scum now.

Seems like people're hardly payin' attention to this game, which means the lack o' scumhammer could mean Carnage's a commie... or just that the red folks weren't goddamn around to do anythin' about it.

Seems to me the only people who weren't around when this was goin' on were you and Dan, and we know what's happened with him, so I think that it's still a valid argument.
I'm still thinkin' Hollis is the most suspicious in my eyes, for reasons mentioned above, but I'd also be happy with a Carnage lynch for the logic that Ozy mentioned. It seems to make a lot o' sense to me... but also makes himself a possible commie. Huh. I'm gonna gather my thoughts on that and post them in a bit.

[Helga Pataki]

Alright. Looking at the Carnage/Adrian votes on Dan, and the events that occurred between the first vote and the unvote.

Summary: Adrian votes Dan. Comments from Carnage, then me. Carnage then votes Dan. Hollis says not to double-vote and votes Adrian. Carnage unvotes.

So, it's like I said before - Dan and Comedian were the only ones who weren't here at the time. That's why I'm seeing the logic that Adrian gives us about either Dan or Carnage being scum, at least, as being pretty feasible.

So, next point. Adrian's logic is that, with no scumhammer, either one o' the ones voting for Dan musta been scum, or Dan himself must've been. (That, or Comedian, and I -really- don't see that...) We can't vote Dan any more, so we can only look at the alternative.

Problem? Adrian also voted for Dan. That leaves us (assuming we go with this logic) with either Adrian or Carnage as our lynch candidate for today.
As I really can't see someone presentin' logic like this as an attack on themself, I'm inclined to vote for Carnage. I still suspect Hollis more, as I said before, but I follow the idea that either Carnage, Adrian or Dan is a commie, and I feel stronger about Adrian bein' town than about Hollis not.

[Nathan Greaves]

Whew!  Just barely escaped.  Somehow Dan was there as well, but as a captive rather than a hidden vacationer.  I could only watch in horror as, in front of hordes of screaming cultists, Dan was fed to the squid-god that rules the island.  Not very heroic to just watch, but discretion is the better part of valor for such incidents.  Was he captured by commies?  Was he working for the commies himself due to some dire blackmail, but was about to turn on them, but was caught before he could defect back?  Who knows.  My apologies to Laurie, certainly, now that both Dan and the Doc are gone...

Back to the investigation.... the scumteam isn't likely to be Comedian / Carnage, at least.  They missed a chance to scumhammer Ozy if so.

I'm also thinking that Ozy / Carnage is also unlikely.  Sure maybe Ozy is attacking Carnage to burnish American credentials?  Not really seeing it though.

I agree with the content of Ozy's post after the squid-kill of Dreiberg.  Only thing to add is that, not knowing Ozy's own alignment myself, I'd certainly add Ozy / The Comedian as a potential possibility myself.  I can't say it's even a likely one, but I can't say I really have any kind of read on the interaction between the two.  They've lightly supported each other, but that's easily potentially harmless.  Just want to throw that out there as a notable possibility along with the Ozy / Spectre combination I mentioned before.

As for Carnage...  I'm just not sure at all.  He seemed reasonably reformed on Day 1 - maybe that elevator fall knocked his head around right - but yeah, he hasn't posted much content I can really put a finger on.

Leaning toward an Ozy or Carnage lynch at the moment.  Not really sure which.

Silk Spectre is a Ninja?!  Who knew.  Since it seems that Miss Juczepec still seems to have an axe to grind against her mother and is still anti-masked-heroes, this reply will be out of character and contain no distracting flavor.

Pure flavour. Seems intended to pad out posts without actually helpin' much.

I think that flavor is fun and try to toss in one paragraph of it when I can.  If you have any problem with the serious content of my posts feel free to flag it but flavor is just that, flavor.

I hate things like this - "If we lynch this one and they flip this, then we should lynch this one!"  Limits town's perspective (for those who follow the method behind it).

That's nice.  The reason I mentioned it was because if I die tonight, then I'd want some of my then guaranteed-to-be-good-faith-at-least wisdom to still be around after I flip American.  I'd want America to win even should I perish, of course.

I know this isn't relevant now, but... in LYLO? This goes completely against this:

When I'd posted the previous message, I was assuming Dan would show up and post at some point.  It is absolutely unacceptable to let someone completely off the hook for dissappearing - if town starts doing that, then all the mafia has to do is lurk their way through every game.  So yes, if Dan had never showed but there'd been no modkill, I likely would have voted for him.

On the bright side, though your post doesn't make tons of sense to me, I'm not sure it rings scummy to me?  I certainly think we have much better targets than you, Silk.  Hmm.

Dual Ninja!  Seems like you agree with me anyway for now, Laurie.

[Nathan Greaves]

Clarification: "but yeah, he hasn't posted much content I can really put a finger on."  Add "much content ON DAY 2 that I can really put a finger on."

[Nathan Greaves]

Hammer in 12 hours as a reminder.  Any more thoughts?

If Dreiberg was scum, I really really doubt Ozy or Carnage are (Carnage's vote was too me-to to gain town cred).  But I agree with Ozy's logic that we should probably lynch one of the other two to be safe and ensure we make it to Day 3 at all.  Huh...  I suppose I can't shake my paranoia over something like a Ozy / (Comedian or Spectre) scumteam that is doing a good job being active and then encouraging us to hunt lurkers.  On the other hand, it's also possible that Ozy's logic is totally right, Dreiberg was scum, and we'd just be throwing away an "easy" victory over the semi-lurkers by overthinking this.  Argh, either one could be it, and we don't have much information.

Mildly still kneejerking toward Ozy at this point, but am willing to be convinced otherwise.  Due to potential LYLO risk, we might want to arrange this such that we pre-decide our lynch with fake votes, and only then cast the winning candidate as real votes.  That way, if we have two trains one of which is innocent, we don't actually cast the votes on the losing train and risk a scumhammer.  Possibly overparanoid, since if Dreiberg was scum we're fine, but that's no reason to let down our guard.

##FAKEVOTE: Ozymandias

[Tron Bonne]

Hrmf. Seven hours, actually. Son of a bitch.

##FAKEVOTE: Silk Spectre

S'all I got, I'm afraid. I keep tryin' to see where she's comin' from, but Hollis looks American as apple pie to me and I dunno what else to think or say. Carnage's probably my fallback right now, but Laurie's been on my radar for two full days now and jus' looks worse. Hrrrng.

[Captain Carnage]

My suspicions are still the same as I previously stated. Silk Spectre and The Comedian are the most suspicious for me right now, Dan excluded. I can't see both of them being soviet buddies though.
Silk is still at the top, she's been trying to nail Hollis for a while now, and the way she exposes her case looks like she's just trying to find whatever she can get against him.
So, ##Fakevote: Silk Spectre .

As it happens, I don't think the Oz kid is red. In fact I can't even say I completely disagree with him. Must be my old tendencies speaking up, but I believe there's a good chance that Dan will flip out commie when he's finally brought to justice, so even if I'm misconvicted, there might still be hope for America.   

[Carthrat]

I'm still sold on a Carnage lynch being our most survivable bet. I don't really want to look into which of Hollis/Spectre/Comedian might be scum until I've determined the ID of one scum for sure, and I'm convinced that between Dan/Carnage, there *is* one scum, and there's not enough information to have a solid shot at lynching another target yet. Combined with lylo threat and... yeah.

re: Hollis: I really wish you'd try to consider me with fresh eyes, honestly. Whenever I read your case it seems to stem out of paranoia based on the possibility of a talkative scum agent rather than any actual greviences. It also really irks me that you've agreed with virtually everything I've said this game, only to later turn around.. and.. call me scum?

##Fakevote: Carnage, with Hollis second although I really want to avoid going down this path right now. And it's moot since according to the FakeVoteCount, at least, he decides the final lynch.

Unless I, y'know, vote Carnage for real. Who's around? Who SHOULD cast the first stone?

[Nathan Greaves]

Ozy: Fair enough.  Actually I think that I'm willing to give you another shot for another, totally different reason.

Anyway...  looks like Spectre is getting lynched.  I suppose I could, along with Ozy, convince her to lynch Carnage...  but I have a real tough time seeing a Comedian / Carnage scumteam (see above, they missed the scumhammer), meaning at least one of them is town, so I'm willing to give the anti-Spectre argument a hearing.  And I may have overstated my faith in Spectre before.  She certainly hasn't said much outside of her case on me today.  Lastly, Comedian is right that with the general lack of posting, and it's quite possible that the reason for no scumhammer at the beginning of Day 2 was simple lack of coordination among the reds.

So...  should we start voting for Spectre for real and hope for the best?

[Nathan Greaves]

Also, I'm willing to cast the first stone at Spectre if need be, just waiting a bit for now to see if anyone has any last-second thoughts.  I doubt that I will be around for hammer, so I need to cast my real vote sooner rather than later anyway.

[Tron Bonne]

I'm with Hollis in that I'd like to see a hammer sooner rather than later, since I can't really be up late tonight. What do you say, Carthymandias?

[Carthrat]

I don't mind the day ending faster. I've said everything I've got to say, so if people have made their mind up that's pretty much it.

Not terribly sure what to make of Spectre in general, I've found her posting less offensive than Dan's and she doesn't fit into my plan like Carnage does. Possible buddy of either of them. On the fence with her, essentially. I don't really have anything to convince you not to lynch her specifically, but nor am I terribly sold on her scuminess.

[Tron Bonne]

Well, damn it, I'm puttin' my balls to the wall.

##VOTE: Silk Spectre

Let's see what happens.

[Captain Carnage]

Well, I am not going to be available until the deadline runs out, so I will just confirm my previous intention.
##Vote: Silk Spectre

[Nathan Greaves]

Man, how am I going to explain this to Sally.

##VOTE Silk Spectre

And that is hammer.  Hopefully we will not soon be including a sickle.

[EvilTom]

Hammer.

[EvilTom]

Final Votecount:
Silk Spectre (3): The Comedian, Captain Carnage, Hollis Mason

---------

Sometime suring the meeting, Nite Owl II disappeared. The last anyone heard of him, he went out for lunch to grab some fish & chips..

Nite Owl II (Dan Dreiberg) [Watcher American Hero - emikanter] choked to death on calamari [modkilled].

Reports arrived that the Ruskis had marched over the border and into Afghanistan; the heroes were out of time. As usual The Comedian acted first, drawing his pistol and levelling it at Silk Spectre.
"This is no joke", cautioned Ozymandias, "all logical processes point towards Captain Carnage, and it would be-"
"Shut your moth you smart-arsed pansy." The Comedian pulled back the slide on his .45, resting his forefinger on the trigger.
Captain Carnage nodded in assent; "Silk Spectre has spent all her time trying to punish Hollis, he's a good guy! If She were a good guy she'd be trying to punish bad guys like ME! She's obviously a communist."
Hollis sighed. "How am I going to explain this to Sally.."
Ozymandias grimaced, turned his back on the proceedings and stormed out of the room. A single gunshot rang out seconds after his departure.

Silk Spectre [Vanilla American Hero - Yoshiken] was executed for treason.

Hollis Mason [Watcher American Hero - SnowFire] was tempted with a nice retirement home staffed by sexy Ukranian nurses, and converted to communism.

Ozymandias [Vanilla American Hero - Carthrat] ragequit to Antarctica, to build his own America, with blackjack and hookers.

Captain Carnage [Godfather Communist Scum - Nietz] turned himself in to the CIA, who tortured him for information (as per his request).

The Comedian [Roleblocker Communist Scum - Strago] went over to the USSR and took control using his powers of awesome, ruling the world. In Soviet Russia, the joke's on you.

-----

After the loss of the Watchmen, the United States launched a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the USSR. Unfortunately for them The Comedian had already sabotaged the USs nuclear launch facilities. After a brief (yet one sided) war, the Soviets under The Comedian and Captain Carnage's supreme rule conquered the world. If only they'd listened to the smartest man on the forum.

Congrats, Scum Win!
FLAWLESS VICTORY

My personal roleplaying awards go to The Comedian and Hollis Mason (and runner up to Doc Manhattan). GG all
Roleshit to follow.

[Carthrat]

If only they'd listened to the smartest man on the forum.

[SnowFire]

Weird.  So why didn't you guys scumhammer Carth out after Dreiberg was modkilled?  Just not notice?  I was definitely running on the assumption that you two weren't working together and thus it was unlikely to be a scum-led lynch.  I feel better about re-assessing Carthrat correctly, though not so much for misguessing the proper target for the real lynch.

I'm not going to feel too bad over this one, we had a lot of lurkers to deal with and only 2 days.  Though...  yeah, this one ends up being my fault for the bad lynch.  Le sigh.

[EvilTom]

Your character is: Ozymandias
Your alignment is: American Hero (Town). You're the smartest man in the world, and you have the best line of toys on sale. Why would you want to be a communist when you can CAPITALISE
Your role is: Vanilla. Your awesome intellect is all you need.

Your Character is: Rorschach
Your alignment is: American Hero (Town, you win with the town). Your black and white mask represents how uncompromising you really are; white and black can never mix to become grey, and you will never accept anything other than justice. Not even in the face of armageddon. Never compromise.
Your role is: Vigilante. Since 1975 you stopped being Kovacs pretending to be Rorschach and became Rorschach.

Your character is: Silk Spectre (I or II, take your pick)
Your alignment is: American Hero (Town). Doing what's right.
Your role is: Vanilla. You don't need anything but your own martial arts skills and your sexy body.

Your character is: Nite Owl II
Your alignment is: American Hero (Town). You do what's right, and you enjoy it.
Your role is: Watcher. You're a real watchman, from up there in Archie.

Your character is: Hooded Justice
Your alignment is: American Hero (Town). You started it all, the original masked hero.
Your role is: Vanilla. Your own strength is all you need to beat the crap out of crime.

Your character is: Captain Carnage
Your alignment is: Communist (Scum) You keep trying to tell them you're evil but they won't believe you! You'll show them...
Your role is: Godfather (Single use bulletproof vest, you appear town to cop investigations) There's no better way to hide than in plain sight.

Your character is: The Comedian
Your alignment is: Communist (Scum) - How ironic, the truest American hero turned commie. The joke's on them and you're going to make them feel the punchline.
Your role is: Roleblocker.  Stop them before they hit you, eh? Gravity's no joke when you live that high up.

Your character is: Doctor Manhattan
Your alignment is: American Hero (Town)
Your role is: Vanilla. Why would you act to save a world you no longer have any stake in?

Your character is: Nite Owl (Hollis Mason)
Your alignment is: American Hero (Town)
Your role is: Watcher


Yes, both Nite Owls were Watchmen, and Rorschach was the vigilante. Awesome luck